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Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 1:34pm
gvmom's picture
Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]So I think it is probably just that she is distracted and in the course of fidgeting (or whatever you call it when 7 yo)... she takes them off-- then she gets distracted and totally spaces on putting them back on. She knows that she can ALWAYS choose any carrier she chooses. It has always been her choice. And we will ALWAYS carry them for her if she asks. Always-- but she knows that comes with a 50 yd leash tying her to them.[/b]
Right. She is 7. Maybe the problem I am having is that I don't equate my son's intelligence, with his readiness to carry his Epi-pens. I make that judgement for him, because he is only 7. And that, right now, regardless of his PA/TNA, he will have that '50 yard leash' tied to him -- because he is 7. Right now, I feel both my children are too young to be anywhere without DH or I, or a combo of the two -- and when he is at school there are adults that are responsible for him (with his medication in class with him).
I'm trying to find the right analogy to get across what I mean. All I can think of is that when I was in my teens I was allowed to do a lot of things because I was smart and responsible -- or so my parents thought. Now, looking back, there were many things they should have said 'No' to because I was only a teenager -- regardless of my maturity.
[b]This is why we want her to really reform her ways about taking them off to begin with. If we can just get her into the habit of following a "rule" about that, all should be well again. This is because she so rarely makes this mistake in restaurants or in leaving the house-- there's a rule.[/b]
Again, for me, punishment for something that you are establishing as a habit, and viewed as a mistake if she forgets, doesn't seem fair to me. She is 7 -- making a mistake, as opposed to willful disobedience, are two different things to me. You trying to instill good habits in her is a good thing - but if she doesn't get punished for forgetting other things, and what she gets is a reminder, well, to me I think that the response to forgetting Epi-pens should be along the same lines -- because she is 7.
[b]On another note, you mentioned your daughter had been in a beach bathroom.
Here in CA and other places there is an alarming increase in the number of child molestations occuring in park, lake and beach bathrooms. They are open to everyone and dangerous places for bad people to lurk.
A number of children have been assaulted while their mothers stood outside of the bathrooms waiting for their child to come out.
Just information.
peg [/b]
Peg -- I hear you on this. Everytime I think about the age when people will start to look strangly at me if I'm taking my boys into the bathroom with me, I think about that case a few years back in So. CA where the little boy was murdered in a beach bathroom while a family member stood outside and waited for him. I think the boy was about 9 -- was brutally murdered. Very scary. I really don't know at what age I'll feel like they can go into a men's room by themselves --

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 2:29pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

gvmom, I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I just don't agree with you. I think you are well-intended, but I would never dream of telling YOU that I think you are doing your 7 yo a disservice by not getting him used to wearing the epipens he'll need to carry for a lifetime. Not my decision. (shrug)
This is a PA management decision that we made years ago-- with our allergist and our daughter. Her Hx means it would be catastrophic for her to ever be without them-- even "just next door" or "in the car."
I don't trust a school to be able to do it right-- and I know plenty of teachers. But I don't criticize those who send their kids for that basic decision when they run into trouble with the situation. Different strokes for different folks.
The bottom line is that I just disagree with you on this one [i]regarding my daughter[/i], and so does her allergist. He knows her, and has substantial experience with children like her-- and your son, I might add. He freely admits that this isn't for all PA kids at this age-- but it IS for ours.
As MB would say-- unique situation, IMMV.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 3:41pm
gvmom's picture
Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]gvmom, I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I just don't agree with you. I think you are well-intended, but I would never dream of telling YOU that I think you are doing your 7 yo a disservice by not getting him used to wearing the epipens he'll need to carry for a lifetime. Not my decision. (shrug)[/b]
I'm glad you are hearing me. I just want you to know that it is my viewpoint. I don't expect agreement -- and I'm cool with agreeing to disagree. I just placed my opinion -- and kept feeling like I wasn't able to really clearly explain what I meant and how I meant it -- and also wanting you to take it in the way it was put.
I also wouldn't take offense to you telling me I was doing a disservice to my son, with respect to anything you might say to me. I respect your opinion -- and many of those you have placed on these boards. I would guess that you do think parents that don't begin getting their child accustomed to wearing their Epi-pens early on are doing a disservice to their children. I'm fine with your opinion being that, if it is. I also can hear it, and not agree with it.
I will say, that if our allergist felt it was in our son's best interest to be wearing his Epi-pen on him, I would be the one deciding what mechanism he would be carrying it in. There would have to be many criteria a carrier would have to fulfill for me to let him wear one, not the least of which is ensuring the carrier wouldn't be easily removed.
As for the school, trusting them to do it right -- well, who says I do? For me, I do my best to put measures in place that are as close to fail-safe as I can make them. I spent my time last year driving to and from school picking up my son everyday for lunch because things weren't in place that I was comfortable with. I don't have a problem pulling him from the school if we encounter problems again. I know it, and so do they.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 4:05pm
Peg541's picture
Joined: 12/29/2002 - 09:00

while it was not in your post I felt sure you did not let her go in the bathroom alone, I just took advantage of the situation.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 4:50pm
Flounder's picture
Joined: 09/02/2006 - 09:00

[This message has been edited by Flounder (edited January 08, 2007).]

Posted on: Tue, 09/12/2006 - 1:25am
ajas_folks's picture
Joined: 04/28/2000 - 09:00

Lurking, listening, learning.
I've found this is to be a great thread with good food for thought in all directions -- will be sure to share it with DH.
Our PA son is 7 1/2, in formal school for the first time ever this year & we are working hard to find the balance for our family & son as to meds responsibility & ownership.

Posted on: Tue, 09/12/2006 - 2:12am
Corvallis Mom's picture
Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Peg541:
[b]while it was not in your post I felt sure you did not let her go in the bathroom alone, I just took advantage of the situation.
And good advice it was-- excellent, in fact.
We tend to encourage the use of "family" restrooms which have individual locking doors for that reason. But I still check them first before I allow DD to go in, even if she wants to go alone. And I tell her to lock the door, and then I stand by the door. (This is obviously a subject I also have strong feelings about, huh?)
DH and I have asked DD some very pointed questions about [i]what[/i] exactly she can recall from her last major reaction. Unfortunately, she just doesn't. I simply don't know where the memory has gone, but she is no longer able to recall how frightening it felt. We are going to discuss this with allergist on Th at our appointment, that's for sure.
I certainly didn't intend for this to turn into a debate about how young is too young to self-carry-- but it seems to have.
So let me say for the record what my opinion is on that subject--in a [i]general[/i] way. I think that you should do it as soon as [i]your child[/i] is developmentally ready to. This may not be when [i]you[/i] are ready to let go. (And I think it is also very smart to carry a back-up just in case... DH and I both carry extra scrips as well, JUST IN CASE.) Built-in redundancy, you know?
I have NEVER regretted following our old allergist's advice. Even though (like others) we've had to replace a few epipens when they got too hot in the car...Even though I wondered what he was thinking when he told us to put them on her if she'd allow it. (This when she was 3.) His reasoning was much like Flounder's. Her reactions have not allowed enough time to [i]think[/i] about what to do. You have to set yourself up so that following your instincts will lead you in the right direction. My instincts tell me to [i]GO TO MY CHILD[/i] when something is terribly wrong. My first impulse is to drop everything and run to her. If her meds are [i]on her body[/i] then that saves time.
I also want to point out something that I don't think has been spelled out very well. Those who [i]have not put epipens on thier kids at 3,4,5 yrs old[/i] may not recognize this as an issue. There is a [i]HUGE[/i] difference between expecting them to [b]self-carry[/b] and expecting them to [b]self-administer[/b]. And I also think that this is why it is so important to get them wearing them early. If you wait until your child is eight to put epipens on, he or she may (rightly) be wondering if you are really telling him/her that you expect them to self-administer. Nothing you can say is likely to dispel that notion once it occurs to them. My daughter does NOT think that-- because she has the experience of me or her dad reaching into that pack and pulling out her inhaler or Benadryl. She knows we don't expect her to do it herself just because she has them on. She has asked us (in the last couple of years) when she will be expected to, and we've told her that if she feels she wants to do her inhaler herself, she can do that. We've shown her [i]how[/i] to administer an epipen. She's done this herself with an expired one. We've told her that she doesn't need to worry that she'll need to do this herself. But if we had just recently put them on her? She [i]would[/i] think it-- and no amount of us telling her otherwise would discourage her. It would be cemented in her mind that the one who carries is the one who controls the contents. KWIM?
And as for the notion that kids who are young will play with them or something, umm, when DD was young enough that this was a worry, she was [i]never out of direct adult supervision.[/i] Ever. If you look at the threads on this subject, it is a [i]non-issue.[/i]
Current allergist is delighted with how we are handing over our daughter's allergy to her-- a little at a time, but with the clear understanding that SHE owns it.
We are definitely going to have to re-evaluate the carrier she uses to make [i]certain[/i] that it is ergonomically more suitable. I am still suspicious that some aspect of the one she was wearing was just not quite right-- and that maybe this is why she took it off. I already know that a belt-carrier won't work, and she nixed DH's suggestion of a fanny pack immediately. (The little fashionista that she is.) Trouble is that it needs to carry her inhaler and liquid meds too. (sigh) So it needs to be washable, indestructable, just the right size, and "pretty."
Of course, she and I both disagreed with DH's suggestions for either duct tape or stapling as a means of keeping them where they belong. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [i]I think he was kidding....[/i]

Posted on: Tue, 09/12/2006 - 4:25am
cynde's picture
Joined: 12/10/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
Of course, she and I both disagreed with DH's suggestions for either duct tape or stapling as a means of keeping them where they belong. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [i]I think he was kidding....[/i] [/b]
LOL, DS left his epi belt in a washroom one time and we didn't realize it until the next day as we were hunting for it to go to school. I phoned his school to tell them that he was not wearing it and to possibly duct tape or staple his back-up epi's to his forehead until I could go retrieve his belt and drop it off at the school. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this may solve the problem.
He doesn't take it off when out of the house, but had had a tummy ache and the belt was hurting him while he was going to the bathroom (I won't go into any more gory detail here)
[This message has been edited by cynde (edited September 12, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 09/12/2006 - 7:20am
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b] Of course, she and I both disagreed with DH's suggestions for either duct tape or stapling as a means of keeping them where they belong. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [i]I think he was kidding....[/i] [/b]
ooo. this reminds me of when my husband took a look at an abscessed abrasion on my knuckles when we were dating. (washed my hand momentarily with a pressure washer---no. never, again)
He said, "It should be broke open and cleaned out with a copper wire brush."
I cheerfully followed him thinking he had some Neosporin and was speaking metaphorically...
It was about as bad as the time I allowed him to remove a treble hook (embedded x2) from my wrist. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img]
no advice, none at all, just thankfull I've kept my tetanus shot up to date. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 09/12/2006 - 3:23pm
katjam99's picture
Joined: 03/11/2006 - 09:00

mommabear!! - Ow! Ow! pressure washer - hook! men - yikes!!!!


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