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Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 12:59am
MommaBear's picture
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Interesting thought just occurred to me. The most responsible and "mature" people I have met probably have had "average" or below average IQ's.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 1:17am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Well, I'm ready to be flamed for being too lax in expectations for my son!
My guy is almost 10, and every school morning I ask him if he has his Epibelt on before he puts his shoes on, and whenever his dad or I go out anywhere "in public" with him, WE carry the "pack" with his meds in it. I remind him from time to time to "help me remember" to get the pack, but I haven't turned over that full responsibility to him yet.
He has just started to take on some responsibility for his allergy at school - wiping down desks before he sits at them. (He has carried his epi in his belt since K.) And this new responsibility has already caused an emotional adjustment. I've posted about it elsewhere. I think, for my kid, a slow turn over is the best route to take.
Everyone handles this differently. (It's beginning to be a mantra...)
[This message has been edited by Lam (edited September 11, 2006).]

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 1:32am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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LOL! My goodness! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Thanks, everyone!
-- What about our punishment? Is there anything more punishing than contemplating what could happen if a toddler found that bag and their parents sued us? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Well certainly. The thought of what could have happened to DD without them. Not to mention the two additional trips over a winding two lane hwy loaded with deer and drunks in trucks and SUVs.... We have definitely admitted our part in this to DD-- family discussion was certainly happening on that drive. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Both her father and I discussed some of the terrible mistakes each of us made as children-- and their consequences.
-- I would have to say that my own experience is not unlike yours, MB. But I don't think being sheltered (or not, in my case) matters all that much-- being gifted means your perspective is different from most of your peers well into early adulthood. I didn't begin meeting a lot of other people like me until grad school.(shrug) And based upon DD's experiences with us [i]not[/i] immediately nearby, I think she'd be fine in a fourth grade classroom. (Well-- aside from the allergy issues which have proven to just be too daunting in our opinion.) We do allow "real world" experience. HSing is more about dual exceptionality now, and less about FA. We do consciously allow her many opportunities to make those social mistakes and bear the consequences. It hurts, but we know why it is necessary for a friend to snub you when you say something thoughtless. Thus far? She has little trouble navigating unstructured time with her peers (ages 3 to 14). She is forced to adapt to different environments with that age range-- and I think that adaptability is the important thing. Thanks for the thoughts, MB-- it is good to know that my mind isn't just working OT when I consider those things. I don't think we "push" her into things so much as she seizes them.
-- We are certainly guilty of forgetting how little she is. (As I can see Williamsmummy and McCobbre both understand...) And as a parent, of course kids do things that just seem, well-- for lack of a better term; [i]bizarre[/i]. Maddening. But understandable-- if you are (fill in age under 20). I might have [i]wanted[/i] to behave terribly yesterday afternoon and evening, but I don't think that I did. (I came to you instead. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] ) It is just so surprising when she uses (age-appropriate) poor judgement-- because she is definitely NOT your stereotypical bright kid with no common sense. She is one of the most sensible [i]people[/i] I have ever known. Very pragmatic and no-nonsense.
Her punishment reflects our desire for her to remake a habit that she has recently been breaking. She has often taken the bag off while at neighborhood friends' houses in the last few months. We are probably guilty of not recognizing how terrible the consequences could be if we were too distracted to notice right away.
In other words-- we neglected to nip this in the bud two months ago... (sigh) But I think "adult" punishments and kids' don't need to seem fairly divided to kids, any more than responsibilities do. (Somehow my 7yo doesn't see "paying the mortgage" as being quite as onerous as "putting away the dishes," if you KWIM!)
It makes me very sad to have my daughter robbed of a "normal" childhood by her FA. So sad that it is very difficult for me to talk about. Suffice it to say that if anything in my life has been a disappointment-- that is it. I had great plans to give my daughter the childhood I didn't have. But "normal" is relative, isn't it? And I have to say that that childhood has made me a very tough and resiliant person.
Thanks again, everyone!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited September 11, 2006).]

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 1:37am
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Lam, I don't see why anyone would flame you. Different strokes for different folks, right?
I have three children, and my expectations of each was completely different -- because they were and are very different people.
Even with homework.
The first, if I left him alone (not even a reminder) he would do it all and do it properly.
The second, I had to hound, ground, and anything else I could think of.
The third, I remind. He's eight and I do have to put him *back on track* every now and then -- he tends to to breaks.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 1:38am
starlight's picture
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Heh, I'm 23 and I *still* occasionally leave my purse (with epi's) in the fitting room after trying on clothes.
And I'm pretty smart. Straight A's in HS, mostly A's in college (I would have had straight A's if I had actually cared about learning at that point).
Absent-minded professor. I usually have too much on my mind to remember absolutely everything. Like today I came thisclose to showering without a towel in the room. I'm surprised she hasn't forgotten it before!

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 4:37am
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[b]-- What about our punishment? Is there anything more punishing than contemplating what could happen if a toddler found that bag and their parents sued us? Well certainly. The thought of what could have happened to DD without them. Not to mention the two additional trips over a winding two lane hwy loaded with deer and drunks in trucks and SUVs.... We have definitely admitted our part in this to DD-- family discussion was certainly happening on that drive. Both her father and I discussed some of the terrible mistakes each of us made as children-- and their consequences.[/b]
I guess you missed my point. Her punishement will last 1 month. She will have to give up something that she finds to be fun -- going out to play.
If you consider the car rides punishment for you and DH, wasn't she on them too? If your discussions about liability associated with losing the bag, and also talking about past mistakes, was your punishment -- she was there for those as well.
I guess my point is, that with a 7 year old, her punishment is going to last well past that day. If you and DH admit to being partially responsible, why doesn't the punishment for the two of you equal that for her? If car rides and discussions were your punishment, she was there for those, so you all should be even.
I'm thinking the possibility exists for a child to come away with the wrong message. "Let the punishment fit the crime" - children do have a sense of fairness. If you don't hold yourself to the same level of accountability, with equal consequences, what will be the lasting lesson? Could she come away with a sense that she got the short end of the stick in all of this? That really, the more important thing, is working on not taking off her Epi-pens. Reminding her how important they are, and also asking for her help to remind you too. She has no power to turn back to you and ground you for not doing what you were supposed to as parents -- no matter how grown up your 7 year old daughter is.
To me, it just seems that the ending to the experience that all of you had, is unfair to your daughter. Children remember when unequities happen to them.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 6:46am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]-- What about our punishment? Is there anything more punishing than contemplating what could happen if a toddler found that bag and their parents sued us? [/b]
I'm still having a problem with this. I fail to see the liability. Is it just me?

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 7:07am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Wow. It really sounds like you are questioning my parenting. With all due respect, you don't know everything about this situation.
Please re-read my posts more carefully. This IS about retraining her and regaining our trust about [i]not taking them off.[/i]
This was a long-standing rule in our house that she has been lax about recently-- our real mistake was in [i]not laying down the law with her sooner.[/i] Gentle reminders were not working (or yesterday would not have happened at all). More is needed right now or it will be a recurrent problem. That is unacceptable.
This isn't about "punishment" so much as it is about correcting a problem. We are turning back the clock about 18 mo--to a place where she had less personal responsibility, but less autonomy, as well.
It [i]does[/i] seem "fair" to her. She understands why we feel we can't trust her not to take them off. She knows what she needs to do to regain that trust.
We want her to think about her mistake-- the restriction will help her to do that over the next few weeks, and will reinforce the need to follow the rule. Her father and I don't need any help remembering and understanding what we did incorrectly.
[i]I[/i] am not the one who will need to think about those epipens every day for the rest of my life. She will. As harsh as that is, the only thing I can do is to help her be in a place where she has no trouble doing it. I want to teach her [i]not[/i] to rely on anyone else to do it for her. I feel it does her no favors to "share" the blame for her leaving them. Reality may decide to punish her far more harshly-- and permanently-- for the same mistake.
I fear her making such an error with fatal consequences when she's 14 and I'm not with her. In this house we're pretty big on personal responsibility, but we firmly, passionately believe as parents that this is something that you [i]grow[/i] into. Right now she's responsible for [i]not taking off her medications, and for reporting all symptoms immediately.[/i] She isn't responsible for treating a reaction, though she has been taught how, and she isn't responsible for judging whether or not foods are safe. She is being coached to own her allergy, but it is a slow process.
Not that we really owe anyone an explanation for a well-considered decision made in our capacity as "Mom and Dad." We love her and are doing what we know in our hearts is the right thing. For [i]our[/i] daughter.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 7:27am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] I'm still having a problem with this. I fail to see the liability. Is it just me?
[/b]
Well-- that was probably my own paranoia about being the victim of spurious litigation.... (you'll recall my mind works OT a lot [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] ) on the other hand, I vaguely recall a case in which a diabetic was sued because a child got stuck with an insulin syringe... don't recall the exact details, though.

Posted on: Mon, 09/11/2006 - 8:41am
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Joined: 03/15/2005 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]I want to teach her [i]not[/i] to rely on anyone else to do it for her. I feel it does her no favors to "share" the blame for her leaving them. [/b]
I agree with these goals--DD recently forgot to put on her epibelt one morning and I noticed it was missing just before the bell rang for school. I pointed out that she forgot it and she became very upset. Fortunately, she has two spare epipens in the office in case hers was ever lost, etc. DD told me she was afraid to go into her classroom without the epibelt on. I was torn between agreeing with her that she always had to have it and reassuring her. I told her that it would be ok because there were spares in the office and I would go straight home to get the epibelt and bring it to her.
I told her teacher that " *** forgot her epibelt today" and was upset and that I would bring it in as soon as possible. I chose words that said it was DD's responsibility.
Everything is a balancing act! I didn't want her to miss class. Realistically, the risk was small to rely on the office epipens for 20 mins. However, I do want her to feel that she needs to wear the belt at all times at school. I did the best I could to balance these concerns in the seconds I had to decide how to handle the situation.
I did not feel that DD needed punishment because she was so upset. Instead, after school we talked about strategies to prevent ever forgetting the epibelt. Now, when she takes it off after school she clips it to her backpack so it won't be forgotten.
Of course, I am not questioning your handling of your DD's situation. You are the best judge of that. I just wanted to relate a similar experience and let you know I understand how difficult it is to find the right approach to every situation. I would add that now that you have told her what the consequences are, I would not second guess myself and change her punishment. That would certainly be counter-productive.
We are all doing the best we can as parents, we can't expect to be perfect all the time! But I do find that reading about the experiences of others does help me when I end up in a similar situation.
Cathy

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