taping meetings

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:04am
MommaBear's picture
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I have a "domain" meeting for a case study evaluation tomorrow. I have just been told by the principal that if [b]even one[/b] person objects to my taping the meeting, I cannot. This is for a potential IEP.

Is this true? I thought it was my [i]right[/i] to tape the meeting.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:17am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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I thought so too... but I could be wrong.
I taped a few...er, "for personal reasons" when I worked in academia. Figured it was my right to tape my own conversations... even if another person didn't know it was happening.
Never had to use any of them, but I was sick of being lied to and playing "he said-she said." (grimly)My personal feeling is that if the thought occurs to you to record the meeting-- you should.
I guess I'd plop the tape recorder on the table and if anyone objects, smile and ask "Why ever not??"
Maybe they think it will, ummm, 'steal their souls' or something? To have their voices recorded, you know.... [i]of course, this asssumes that they have souls to begin with...[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:27am
Gail W's picture
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MB, I looked into this at one point with another parent and we asked OCR. I dug through my old e-mails and found this response from OCR:
____________________________________________________
[i]In response to your question concerning Section 504 meetings and whether you were allowed to tape record conversations in these meeting. The below information was obtained off the web-site based upon your concerns.
DO PARENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAPE RECORD MEETINGS & CONFERENCES?
"The subject of whether or not a parent has the right to tape record IEP meetings frequently arises. Based upon recent guidance contained in appendix A to the 1999 IDEA regulations, it appears that the answer is: "It depends." In order to understand whether an enforceable right to tape an IEP conference exists in a particular situation, one must reference both state and federal law on this issue...Parents wishing to use audio or video recording devices at IEP meetings should consult state or local policies for further guidance...There is no law or regulation that specifically allows or prohibits the taping of IEP conferences. Thus, under its general powers, a school board could, under state law, adopt reasonable rules and regulations sustaining a general prohibition against taping, provided that exceptions were allowed. However, our overall sense of this issue is that a parent could pretty easily establish the need to tape record an IEP conference based upon the vague language contained in the appendix, [Appendix A to the 1999 IDEA regulations] and a court reviewing this issue would likely give deference to the guidance provided by the Untied States Department of Education on this issue."
(Attorneys Sweet, Stevens, Tucker & Katz, LLP Home Page. "Tape Recording of IEP Conferences." < [url="http://www.sweetstevens.com/FSL5CS/special"]http://www.sweetstevens.com/FSL5CS/special[/url] education/special education64.asp >.) twelfth
The bottom line - there is no law or regulation that specifically allows or prohibits the taping of IEP conferences. Thus, under its general powers, a school could, under state law, adopt reasonable rules and regulations sustaining a general prohibition against taping, provided that exceptions were allowed.
If you have any additional questions concerning this matter please feel free to contact me.
(name)
Equal Opportunity Advisor
U.S. Department of Education
Kansas City, Missouri
(816) xxx-xxxx voice
(816) xxx-xxxx fax
(800) 437-0833 TTY[/i]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:31am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
I have just been told by the principal that if [b]even one[/b] person objects to my taping the meeting, I cannot.
Is this a policy?
Can the principal show this policy to you in writing?
If it's not a policy, can the principal show you the minutes of the meeting in which this decision was agreed upon?
Are exceptions allowed?
Where does it say that exceptions are/aren't allowed?

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:33am
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aw, Corvallismom, I'm so sorry if I've been a cranky itchbe. I don't deserve the laugh you just gave me.
So, can I borrow the "souls" line??? canIcanIcanI????? Already, I'm almost hoping they refuse.....
And with all sincerity, can I count it as ingratiating myself to them?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
digressing....I had a dream last night...I dreamt a train was barrelling through me over and over and over..(I could feel the sudden draft, sorta like a giant airzooka---kept waking me up. It seemed so loud, my ears hurt.)
They keep telling me I have to come to the meeting [i]without the baggage[/i]. [i]They make it all but impossible.[/i]
But, hey, the h*ll I do. Who do they think they are, telling me how to feel, when to feel it, and what I'm allowed to ask???
end digression. Is there any legal quip that says I can tape, and the meeting must go on? I'm too tired and beat down to even look it up. It's so depressing.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:35am
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oh, gail, thank you. I just saw your post....
I already am feeling more prepared....

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:41am
Gail W's picture
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How important is this issue? If you press for written policy, they produce none and yet still refuse, would you be wiling to walk out of the meeting then and there?

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:02am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]How important is this issue? If you press for written policy, they produce none and yet still refuse, would you be wiling to walk out of the meeting then and there?[/b]
Gail, this is the school I originally walked out on with my first cub.
I'm sure they would just *love* that I pack this one up too. I'm on the verge and they know it....
Can't say I did a bad job with the first one. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I picked my child up early this morning. (Yet another playground accident) There was the district nurse, the social worker, and the principal there waiting for me....
Honestly? Intimidation has been the only mode operandi this particular school in the district has ever employed with me. It comes as no surprise.
The teacher sent home a worksheet paper with "three hours of one-to-one" written on it. [i]The answers were all wrong.[/i]
Can you believe it? Three hours and the only productive thing that comes of it is [i]wrong answers[/i]. [b]No wonder my middle child is in a tizzy.[/b] I mean, (sarcasm) [i]what a great lesson to learn[/i]: Three hours of intensity brings absolutely no learning. No insight. Nothing but "oh, yeah kid, you still can't show me how."
I'm almost afraid to send him into that situation again...
When I discussed this concern with a person at the district, there was giggling...
first I have to deal with eyerolling, now [i]giggling[/i]. And there is offense taken when I ask them to stop.
Weren't you the one who posted about [i]giggling[/i] before? If so, I can soooooo sympathize.
Oh, and the tutoring? The first day, [i]they forgot[/i] and sent him to wait for his ride home. Good thing we showed up early.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:22am
Gail W's picture
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Do you want to force this issue? Depending on what you want . . . you could try to address it once and for all at the very start of the meeting. You'd have to take charge and be willing to leave. Do you want to do that? You might have to get up and walk out. . .
1. Go in with the tape recorder and set it on the table. Boom.
2. If they tell you, "no" then [b]turn it on anyway [/b]and state into the recorder, "I have been told by X that I must turn off this tape recorder. Please state why I have been asked to turn off the tape recorder."
3. If they refuse you, just say this is something you need dealt with now. You can wait for them to provide you with the information that you are requesting, but that you need supporting documentation of the assertion you cannot tape record you child's IEP meeting.
4. You can then present a prepared letter stating your intent to tape the meeting. Before sliding it across the table read the letter into the tape recorder:
[i] "This letter is to inform you of our intent to tape record our son's, Cub X, IEP Meeting. If you prohibit us from tape recording this meeting, we request that you provide us with the X School District policy stating that we cannot tape record IEP meetings and the minutes of the School Board in which this policy was passed. Sincerely, Mr/Mrs Bear" [/i]
4. If they still want you to turn off the tape recorder, say that you will when they provide you with the written information that you've requested. If they refuse to provide that, you could say that you can wait for it.
5. If they still refuse, you could ask to reschedule at a time when they can provide you with this information. You could walk out.
I mean, you could have the show down right then and there. Before the 'real' meeting even starts.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:22am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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oy. GAAAAAAA! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img]
In light of the situation, feel free. It is clear they have no souls to steal. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Time for Rambo-Mom, huh? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
(Remember, DH has that pair o' boots if ya need em.)
Good luck.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:25am
Gail W's picture
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Would you be willing to schedule (pay for) a stenographer?

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:32am
Gail W's picture
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(MB, I'll be back in about 90 minutes. . . )

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 12:29pm
Gail W's picture
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I'm trying to find something on the Illinois state board of education's website about a parent's right to audio or video tape IEP meetings. I can't find anything that directly speaks to this issue, but if you go to the document listed as "Parent Rights" (pdf download) here:
[url="http://www.isbe.net/spec-ed/html/parents.htm"]http://www.isbe.net/spec-ed/html/parents.htm[/url]
you'll find on the graph on page 2 that parents have the right to "seek support" and to "bring support persons to meetings if needed" under "Before the meeting":
[i]>Seek support, if needed.
> Bring support person(s) to time and place for the meeting(s), if needed. [/i]
I wonder if you could use this as justification to tape record. What if, hypothetically speaking, you were working with an advocate who lived out of state and could not attend your meeting? Under your rights, would that give you 'just cause' to tape record?
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited September 19, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 1:35pm
Gail W's picture
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Info from the Missouri Board of Ed website: [url="http://www.dese.mo.gov/divspeced/FirstSteps/QandA.html"]http://www.dese.mo.gov/divspeced/FirstSteps/QandA.html[/url]
[i]Individualized Family Service Plan (IFSP)
and Early Intervention (EI)
Q: May IFSP meetings be audio- or video-tape-recorded? NEW!
A: Neither Part B nor Part C of IDEA addresses the use of audio or video recording devices at IEP or IFSP meetings, nor does any other federal statute authorize or prohibit the recording of an IEP or IFSP meeting by either a parent or the public agency.
For school districts, it is up to each public school to establish a practice or policy that allows, limits or prohibits the use of recording devices in IEP meetings, however, since DESE is the grantee who is implementing First Steps, it is within DESE's discretion and authority to establish this practice/policy for consistency agency-wide.
In general, taping is considered adversarial and many people have an aversion to being taped. Also, any recording of an IFSP meeting that is maintained by the public agency is an "education record," within the meaning of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy act ("FERPA"; 20 U.S.C. 1232g), and would, therefore, be subject to the confidentiality requirements of the regulations under both FERPA (34 CFR part 99) and Part B (300.560-300.575). As is the case with most school districts in the state, DESE's policy for First Steps is to prohibit audio or video taping of IFSP meetings except in the rare exceptions when it would be necessary to ensure that the parent understands the IFSP or the IFSP process.[/i]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 2:23pm
Gail W's picture
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[url="http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/tips/palmer.meeting.tape.htm"]http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/tips/palmer.meeting.tape.htm[/url]
[url="http://concordspedpac.org/Taping.html"]http://concordspedpac.org/Taping.html[/url]

Posted on: Wed, 09/20/2006 - 1:33am
Gail W's picture
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. . . looking for an update. . .
Thinking about you today.
~ ~~ ~~~ ~good vibes~ ~~~ ~~ ~

Posted on: Wed, 09/20/2006 - 9:41am
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Govt. bodies, school district video tape and audio meetings all the time. They even audio tape closed meetings.
I think I would point that out.

Posted on: Wed, 09/20/2006 - 10:51am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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How'd it go????
Didja capture anyone's [i]soul??[/i]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I'm thinking positive thoughts... hoping to find you've posted about your latest victory. (keeping my fingers crossed)

Posted on: Tue, 10/10/2006 - 11:40pm
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I've been on radio silence, I apologize for not responding previously, but something came up at the last meeting.....something unexpected. A conflict of interest I'd rather not discuss on [i]this[/i] forum.
BUT NOW TO UNPACK MY BAGGAGE. [i]it begins[/i]. I dislike being forced to show my hand. I will be [i]difficult[/i]. I've warned them I am not one to encourage to put things "in writing". So I'm holding back, trying to be "non-confrontational" and "non-threatening". This is my best attempt.
We had a behavior meeting scheduled for this week (not for violent or aggressive behavior, but rather in an attempt to establish alternate routes of discipline (motivation?) as opposed to [i]those that punish his disability[/i]. ie: taking recess away if table work is not completed, talking out of turn, running and laughing, failure to follow directions (refusal?---I mean, why is he refusing? I don't think it's simply because he doesn't want to in many instances. I think they do: hence the title the principal bestowed on him [b]"Master of Manipulation"[/b]. ) The principal is supposed to be "autism savvy". How should I view that? Negative? Positive?
Currently in the past three weeks, they have been remiss in not beginning the "full case study". The "behavior plan" meeting to be held this morning, was cancelled [i]yesterday[/i], with the lame excuse that Anthony was absent on the day yesterday, they were supposedly planning on doing the "functional assessment".
The "functional assessment" of my oldest son wasn't even completed during school hours. He was being homeschooled. It was completed one morning in our home by school staff. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
But I digress. My response (with restraint, but unpacking my [i]baggage[/i]. Or at least an overnight bag.
*******************************************
Dear Mrs. _______ and Team Members,
Was the team planning on doing the functional analysis the day before the meeting? (Today, and a day <> was absent).
<> was absent this last Friday, but it was only a half day with parent teacher conferences......I hope that was not the day the team was planning on a "functional analysis(?).
If not, then you were aware you were canceling the meeting on Thursday (or earlier) last week? Could someone have notified me then? In the meantime, I had planned my schedule around this meeting. I waived my ten day right to notification and rearranged my schedule. Possibly, the team may decide to plan ahead and do the functional analysis well in advance of the next meeting.
The functional analysis is not solely for the "behavioral plan", but also part of his "full case study" which has been "in process" for three weeks. <> brother, <>, received a full case study that was completed in less than a week (several days if I remember correctly) and at the time, <> was being home-schooled, had been home-schooled for first and second grade, and wasn't even a student in a class attendance at <>. That case study was also completed by <> School.
I've inquired before as to what "schedule" the "full case study" will have. To date, I haven't been given specific dates on which the "functional analysis", "testing", or evaluations will be administered. I am requesting specific dates. Now I am putting it "in writing". Albeit electronic. Then possibly, there will be no confusion as to what might be the cause for delaying future meetings. <> full case study entailed specific dates. All specific dates.
<> is experiencing a great deal of distress related to his attendance at school. His attendance is impacting him negatively. As an example,. I've watched his "behavior" chart spiral downward since school started. I expressed previously, my concern to both you and <> regarding this as well. I have expressed this reality to you and <> numerous times before.
His forced attendance is also causing me a considerable amount of distress. This too, I have mentioned to you and <>, both in person, and during previous phone conversations we have had. I feel his educational circumstances without an IEP are inappropriate, possibly [b]wholly[/b] inappropriate, and currently providing no more than telling us how [i]not[/i] to address his needs. Including docking his recess, which is one of the few large motor breaks he receives (I am unsure if <> has proceeded with the "extra breaks" she felt would benefit him in addition to those routinely scheduled for the entire class). I see, despite our conversations to the contrary, docking his recess is routine again.
I'd say his attendance has been informational, but exactly how much "negative feedback" does one need? If it is to the point of creating a sense of self loathing in a child related to his own perceived intelligence and a terror in that child of school, I'd say,[i] "Congratulations, I think we're there."[/i]
I am suggesting, as I have done previously, that the "full case study" proceed post haste and that <> attendance be partially limited until the full case study is completed and an IEP agreed upon. I could request class observation, or observation of the entire school day, as that is always a possibility for both my husband and myself, both being members of the same IEP team.
The district/co-op has previously had four consecutive years to address <> educational needs, including those "related", and was indeed incorrect in "dropping" him as a "Special Education" student prior to kindergarten. I expressed this at the time he was dropped, and continued to do so last year at <> Elementary, and after their PPS meeting in which they decided no further re-evaluation was necessary in anticipation of first grade.
Either they were wrong, or something is terribly amiss for <> in his new setting at <>. I'm sure this is no surprise to you as we are both aware (and as <> has informed me) <> is failing numerous subjects and struggling terribly in those he is barely passing.
We both know "Special Education" is a spectrum, including children with special needs, from learning disabled to gifted, as well as those who fall on both ends simultaneously.
I have sat in this exact same position, in the same school, four years ago with <> brother, <[list=1]>, who also has an educational label of "Autism" through your district.
Autism is not something that one "grows out of". It is something that, in many cases, can be accommodated in order to give a child opportunity. Many autistic children are very adept at seizing that opportunity and excelling beyond what many "educators" would consider possible in their limited view. Currently, this is not happening for <>, through no fault of his own.
Indeed, the courts support the identification of such suspected students by the educational system, if for nothing less than anticipatory guidance through awareness.
Translated simply, it is not necessary to allow them to fail miserably. Or fail miserably for an extended amount of time. In the case of Autism, the stakes are too high. There are no "do-overs". Child development is very often, if not exclusively, a "once in a life-time chance". <> was identified through the district and co-op years ago as having numerous "red flags" and causes for concern developmentally, including a speech delay until age 4. <> exhibits multiple characteristics including what may be incorrectly perceived by some as ADD/ADHD. Others include, but are not limited to: sensory integration dysfunction (documentation on file with district), echolalia/vocalization, complex motor stimming (I agree, even though particularly adorable in <> case, still very significant), delayed motor development, pedantic speech, highly special interests, "talking above" his classmates interests or understanding (most recently impressed to me by his teacher, <>, have referred to him in conversation with me as "a master of manipulation". [i]I'm assuming his IQ therefore, is not in question,[/i] at least not in it's southward direction, despite his poor academic performance currently and extreme distress at the mere mention of school or any school related activity. (He has, however, asked me that I bring him to the playground before or after school so he may have a "turn" on the swings.)
Even the courteous and complimentary documentation I have accumulated over the last several years, regarding <>, from the district and co-op, continued to validate these concerns, despite how adorable and captivating we both agree <> is. The district and co-op [i]have been aware[/i].
>>>For four years, and now into his fifth year...<<<<
I am requesting a full copy of <> cumulative district XXX and XXX records, including annotative documentation in addition to measurable criteria and other occidental data. Please let me know what documentation I have to fill out in order to obtain those records.
In earnest,
Mrs. << [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]>>
****************************************

Posted on: Wed, 10/11/2006 - 3:40am
Gail W's picture
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What? You didn't give them a deadline? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/11/2006 - 5:54am
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It sounds like schedules do not mean much anyhow...
what scares me is that these are people she's supposed to trust to teach her children how to tell time using clocks and a calendar.
Since when does "tomorrow," or "next Tuesday afternoon" mean 'ohhhhh, you know' (with a vague wave)?
I'm sorry that they so obviously learned nothing the first time, MB. Maybe you should speak more slowly in meetings-- use simpler words or something... Sometimes this helps me-- I wouldn't be so impatient if they [i]were[/i] truly struggling with a situation's complexities because they have a mental age of 3. And really, how do I know that they don't? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] From some people's actions, it is the only reasonable conclusion.
Hang in there. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/11/2006 - 6:02am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]What? You didn't give them a deadline? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[/b]
apparently I didn't need to....(give a girl a break [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] it was 2 a.m.! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )
Reply received at noon today:
[i]"Hi Mrs. <>,
I have asked that Mrs. XXXXXXX, the school psychologist give you an assessment
schedule. To do a file review, you only need to call the co-op and schedule
an appointment. If you want a copy, they will ask you what you want copied
and may charge you for the copying. You can do the same for <>
permanent file at <>."[/i]
(from the director of "Special Services" whom I cc'd)
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited October 11, 2006).]

Posted on: Wed, 10/11/2006 - 6:07am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]I'm sorry that they so obviously learned nothing the first time, MB. [/b]
C'mon now! [i]have some faith[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 1:05am
MommaBear's picture
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**************************************
Mrs. XXXXXXX (school principal):
I spoke with (district director of education services) yesterday regarding the difficult day (son) had. (son) had a "Red" day on his behavior chart. I left a message with the secretary, (name). She took detailed notes to pass to Mrs. (teacher) and you that he had been medicated earlier with cough syrup for bronchitis, which was still lingering since last week.
He had also seen Dr. (pediatrician) for this last week.( If you need the documentation, let me know.) I had also relayed that he should not suffer "punitive" punishment by restricting his recess or worse, making him stand "at the wall" during recess. That he needed his large motor breaks. That we had agreed on these last two points. That if he had any incidents or behavior became a problem during the day, considering the point we are at, I would be called to pick him up immediately.
Nonetheless, I wasn't informed as his day disintegrated, as he "moved to red" on his behavior chart at the very start of the day. I have had poor judgment trusting other adults would, including yourself, follow through on agreements. He was again, punished by being made to stand at the wall during recess for moving to "red" on his behavior chart. This happened yesterday morning. We had agreed (via district special ed services supervisor) (son) would not be punitively punished, especially by having his recess taken away. And especially for things that we suspect are part of a covered disability under IDEA, for which he is currently, but slowly being evaluated. (He is a previous "special education student" with a PDD label.) That it was counterproductive to our cause. That it was inappropriate, most definitely inappropriate, considering that the Social Worker has already suggested incorp orating additional large motor breaks into his day. I'd say, on the district end, it is especially inappropriate, since other staff, namely (social worker), have already used the label "ADD/ADHD" in conversation with me when discussing (son)'s behavior. Even if only for the purposes of potentially filling out a referral sheet, as it was explained to me.
I don't feel that label (ADD/ADHD) is correct, only trying to understand the logic. Or the lack of it.
I have never, despite numerous requests, many in person to you, received a phone call back from Mrs. (teacher) regarding scheduling conflicts and parent teacher conferences. Currently, we are still lacking a rescheduling of that conference.
It is, as I indicated in phone messages last week and the week prior, and over the phone to you, impossible for me to coordinate such through daily messages in a homework planner. The homework planner communication device was intended for brief quips and homework instructions, in an attempt to accurately understand homework needs and his lack of turning in assignments.
As of our phone conversation last week (which you emailed me in a synopsis at my request), you informed me that it could be because I asked Mrs. (teacher) [i]her age.[/i] Apparently, you have had opportunity to touch on this subject with her. It is my belief, that for a teacher, it would be impossible to address (son)'s needs or serve his best interests, if they refused, were reluctant, or merely hesitant to communicate in person, or over the phone with a parent. That if that is the case, there is a conflict of interest, and an inability to serve that child appropriately. Do you agree? If not, please explain...
I find it concerning since (son) is currently undergoing a "full case study" and the ability to communicate between staff, and in particular, his teacher, is paramount. When you are a teacher, you cannot selectively limit your relationship to that child alone, but must indeed, include that child's care-givers. Namely, in this situation, his parents. Particularly if they express concern, and request involvement. Which we have, ad nauseum.
Now, if you, as a supervisor are aware of such a conflict, it is not sufficient that you act as a liaison. Unless it is to re-institute an open and communicative parent/teacher relationship. I believe it is unethical to enable the cessation of person to person communication in such a situation. For it to remain so creates an inequality between (son) and his peers. Do you agree?
My profession prepares me for this discussion, if only to say, that as a licensed professional that deals with numerous persons of many life stages, and specifically with disruptions that my unfortunately occur during them, I am required to address not only the individual, but also the support system they have, providing emotional support to all involved. Can I say, I feel this is sorely lacking by certain members of your staff?
It is an impossibility, for me to maintain an ethical practice, and entreat myself to such delicateness or fragility. In other words, I don't take things personally. It's a luxury those I serve cannot afford. It gets in the way of appropriately meeting their needs in a timely manner. It puts them at risk.
Please note, we agreed (son)'s attendance would continue possibly Monday through Wednesday, and possibly Thursday if his behavior during the day did not continue it's downward trend. Apparently, he is not making it past the morning hours before "moving to red", and we are once again at odds, unable to share a common ground regarding appropriate motivation and correction for his behavior that does not punitively punish him for a potential disability. Namely "Autism".
I have informed you previously and continue to be forthright in suggesting to you the risk/benefit ratio is not in his favor if we are to require his school attendance for the evaluation to proceed. That it is taking an extreme emotional toll on him. That it is harming him. I therefore, am once again, requesting that the evaluation take place outside the classroom setting. It is how my older son was evaluated, and in all regards, seems to be the most appropriate way to address the situation at hand. All things considered.
(son) did tell me he underwent some form of "test"ing in the afternoon, after "moving to red", and after being made to "stand at the wall" during recess. But prior to staying after hours for "tutoring". Seems a long day for an adult, let alone a child who is obviously having difficulty adjusting. I ask you: Is this how you ensure the validity of a test? I'm dumbfounded. And it is disturbing to think that possibly (son)'s day is structured as to engender tantruming.
I am requesting any further communication be via email or more specifically, during a conference at our earliest convenience. To date, the conference meeting regarding a "behavior plan" has not been rescheduled after being canceled on the behalf of the district. Any conference will necessitate the presence of (district sped super) and (co-op sped super) as (son) was under "(co-op district number)" designation in the past. I can be available tomorrow morning, if the opportunity comes to fruition.
I am still awaiting notice that (son)'s cumulative record, complete with annotative detail, is ready and available for review.
With much concern,
Mrs. (moi')
***************************************
~no advice, just personally. they might play wastepaper basket ball on the desktop....

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 1:09am
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most recent posting sent yesterday morning.....

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 1:40am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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What a bunch of sh*ts. Ugh. How [i]can[/i] these people claim to "love" the children they are supposed to care for??
Your family is most definitely in my thoughts, MommaBear.
Not that I doubt for a moment that you can handle them.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] But it would be nice if they did the right thing once in a while [i]without that foot up....[/i] Well.
Good luck.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 1:45am
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I'm sure they're trying to figure out what it is that you want. If they could only understand that you want them to do the right thing that is THIER job to do. Instead, I think they want you to tell them. To make their jobs easier. . .
But this was priceless:
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]As of our phone conversation last week (which you emailed me in a synopsis at my request), you informed me that it could be because I asked Mrs. (teacher) [i]her age.[/i] Apparently, you have had opportunity to touch on this subject with her. [/b]
ROTFL! ! ! ! ! !
OMG MB! You crack me up! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I guess you [i]could[/i] also point out that you that you never indicated to the teacher that you were 'refusing' her 'services', nor did the teacher ever ask asked for your informed consent to 'refuse services'. LOL!

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:02am
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I apologize for making light in my earlier post above. I understand this is painful and disgusting. Do you think that the principal will see the teacher's action toward your cub as [i]retaliation[/i]? [i]harrassment[/i]? Does acting out of spite, being vindictive, change the seriousness of the situation in your opinion? (It does in mine.)

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:06am
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School Response:
[i]"Dear Mrs. (Moi'),
Thank you for your clarification of your concerns. We are in the process of
setting up a meeting to address these concerns. Please email me back with a few
dates and times that you are available to discuss your concerns (preferably on a
Wednesday when our team in meeting.) As you stated in our conversation this
morning, you would be contacting me within an hour but I have not heard from you
regarding whether or not (Son) would be in school this afternoon for testing
with the speech pathologist. I am assuming that he will not be here for the
testing today. Please remember that if (Son) is going to be out of school, it
is imperative that you call the office to call him in with the reason for which
he will not be in school. Someone will contact you when the meeting is
scheduled.
(Principal)"[/i]
****************************************
They only tell me the speech path is going to be in after I limit his attendance. (lol) Like I'd send him after the day they put him through....
I should be thankful they didn't fight with him [i]over what items he could eat first[/i] in his lunch. [b]Again.[/b]
They are not nutritionists. They have no dr.s orders regarding his lunch. [b]I never requested they "monitor" and [i]restrict[/i] his lunch. [/b] Items *I* send for him in his *private* lunch. I can sooooooooooo identify with parents who bristle at the thought of someone rifling through their child's food telling them what they can and cannot eat. Or when they can eat it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] It has nothing to do with a food allergy in this instance. Just the schools unfounded locus of control.
They say he isn't eating enough at school and maybe *that* is why he is not engaged.... I send *two* snacks, one lunch. They want him to eat his sandwich before his pudding, fruit cups, or chips or raisins for instance. Bigger bozos. (Not sent all for one meal, but in separate meals)
They leave it up to 10 dollar a lunch period housewives (or worse, #######' [i]volunteers[/i]) to handle. I mean, some broad from the neighborhood is hassling my child about his lunch.......no license, no training, no authority, no liability...
Unthinkable.
[i]They've questioned my ability to feed my family appropriately, and in particular, my child.[/i]
@** *****.
I've got to ask myself: "Who exactly are they expecting a tantrum from?" [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:10am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]I apologize for making light in my earlier post above. I understand this is painful and disgusting. Do you think that the principal will see the teacher's action toward your cub as [i]retaliation[/i]? [i]harrassment[/i]? Does acting out of spite, being vindictive, change the seriousness of the situation in your opinion? (It does in mine.)[/b]
leave your previous post. [i]please[/i]. I smiled. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
but yes, it is [i]serious[/i]. It increases the severity. My instincts say: [i]grab your baby and flee to safety[/i].
I am. But this time, I'm doing it differently, with thought, and not strictly on impuls. I'm not relieving their obligation. As much as they are trying to make me. Yes, Gail, I want them to [i]do their job[/i]. I won't hinder them, in fact, I'm paving the way.....

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:15am
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my reply this morning:
******************************************
[i]"Dear Mrs. (principal)
I am assuming then, my offer to meet this morning (made only yesterday) is not sufficient notice (quote from my previous email):
"I am requesting any further communication be via email or more specifically, during a conference at our earliest convenience. To date, the conference meeting regarding a "behavior plan" has not been rescheduled after being canceled on the behalf of the district. Any conference will necessitate the presence of (district sped super) and (coop sped super) as (son) was under "coop number" designation in the past. I can be available tomorrow morning, if the opportunity comes to fruition. "
Otherwise, November 1 is a suitable date. It is a Wednesday as you have requested it to be. Please let me know if it is an accommodating date.
In the meantime, (son) will not be in attendance, but will remain enrolled in district programming. The delay over the last several years, by the district in redressing, and placing an educational diagnoses, has impeded his ability to do so.
I will go so far as to say, his status as a "Special Education" student should never have been dropped in the first place.
My position on this has been constant. I brought it to your attention as soon as I was introduced to you, prior to the start of school. My position remains the same. It has always been the same. It predates my introduction to you, even prior to our initial meeting at his brother's IEP meeting several years ago, during which Autism was also discussed.
As I have indicated before, the concerns that initially placed his label (PDD), were considered grievous by the district and should have eventually warranted keeping (son) monitored as a continued "Special Education" student regardless of his academic performance.
Although, this did not occur. His status and protection under "Special Education" was dropped.
The necessity couldn't have been any more obvious than if he had a brother who was also receiving special education services under a label of "Autism" with the district.
But he was. He even qualified for an "At Risk" program (which he attended) in district. The title, "At Risk" was self explanatory. It defined the obligation.
It is a travesty he was "discharged" from Special Education, and as I may remind you.........again....against his parents' wishes. More grievously, it was a gamble the district was willing to take, but in no way did it relieve any obligation.
I've never been as willing to take such risks with my own children. I wouldn't take them with anyone else's children either.
But should I believe a "cure" does exist for Autism? That it can be found in the recommendations of a "Special Education" discharge? Soley in that act? (It's almost too sad to be sarcastic, but indulge me.)
I hope I am emphasizing the importance to the district of following through when as a professional and an educator, individuals encounter such circumstances and "rule out" certain possibilities "red flags" present before effortlessly engaging one's approval to discharge a child from their services.
In the past, I have communicated these same concerns to the district, "in writing", (some electronic), and currently, the decisions of the district have afforded me no other recourse, but to act in (son)'s best interest, limiting his attendance (but NOT withdrawing him from district enrollment) in order to reduce the negative impact his current educational programming is having on him.
I am awaiting aforementioned contact from (name), school psychologist, as previously promised by (district sped super), in order to schedule testing dates and complete his evaluation. I will be delivering the "Sensory" intake form received from the school. Will she also be rescheduling the "Speech" evaluation?
I have previously and in writing, given sufficient time in order that (son)'s cummulative educational record, not limited, but including annotative documentation, be made availabe within the next two days, in order that I may review it and obtain copies.
In (son)'s best interest,
Mrs. (you know who)"[/i]
****************************************
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited October 18, 2006).]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:23am
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But I think the word I'm looking for do describe the seriousness is [i]heinous[/i].

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:34am
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by the way, this principal first encountered my family as the "district representative" present at an IEP meeting held at a school where my oldest son was placed "out of district". She was the person on the "invite" from our "home district" that I had questioned being in attendance. Do yo remember that instance Gail? I think I posted on it in my IEP vs. 504 thread....

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:35am
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I cc'd the letter to the SI, the principal, the district sped super, and the co-op sped super......did I forget anyone?

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 2:38am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b][i]"Dear Mrs. (principal)
I am assuming then, my offer to meet this morning (made only yesterday) is not sufficient notice . . .[/b]
MB, are they smart enough to see their hypocrisy? (That they gave one a day's notice for DS's speech eval.)

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 5:48am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]I cc'd the letter to the SI, the principal, the district sped super, and the co-op sped super......did I forget anyone?[/b]
An attorney?

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:07am
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Hmmmm, maybe I missed something but if he was in Special Ed classes beforehand, and school took him out of said classes and he's having problems being in new said classes including with the school/certain teachers wanting to label him ADD, etc., why don't they just put him back into his Special Ed class?
As far as food, I do know that certain foods make kids "bounce off the walls" (if you will) more so than other kids. A friend of mine had problems with her child as he was acting out in class. I don't exactly know how she went about figuring it out but she found out his body reacted with certain foods containing silicilates (additives found in some foods). (I can't remember the correct term that was used to describe what her son had). Not saying that this is the case but is it possible some of the foods that he is digesting is playing a part in his acting out at school?
(MB, don't take this the wrong way but just trying to look at things from every angle.)
As far as tape recording your meetings, why is that an issue? They usually take minutes during most meetings anyway. Are they afraid someone will say something inappropriate? Wouldn't they rather have some stated accurately where all parties are crystal clear on what's being said as opposed to someone twisting words around?
I'm not sure about pulling him out of school, though. I know you're upset about all this and have every right to be but I'd hate for the school to give you any grief about the lack of attendance resulting in possible repeating of said school year.
Wishful thinking here but can you (or someone else who isn't linked with the school) monitor some of his time while he is in his classroom? If your son's punishment of standing by the wall during recess isn't working (which it doesn't sound like it is), why isn't the teacher trying something else that would be more productive? (unless she is and I missed that)
Btw, house for sale yet? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 8:01am
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Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]Btw, house for sale yet? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
let me pay the taxes first, will ya? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 8:04am
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]
Not that I doubt for a moment that you can handle them.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] But it would be nice if they did the right thing once in a while [i]without that foot up....[/i]
[/b]
[b]Three[/b]. Three phone calls from the school by 2pm. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
1. To inform me the cumulative chart was ready.
2. To schedule further testing (from the psychologist).
3. From the first grade teacher to reschedule parent teacher conference.
4. From the director of special education to schedule an appointment to review the cumulative chart (district), not co-op.
[i]blowing smoke from fingertips, and I didn't even use "spell check".[/i]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 8:05am
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whoops! make that [b]Four[/b]. Four phone calls, as the last was while I was out. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 8:07am
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Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b] An attorney?[/b]
what on earth for??! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
but, yeah, I hear ya. If only I could find one who knew what they were doing when it comes to this. Let's just say I haven't been impressed...

Posted on: Wed, 10/18/2006 - 12:13pm
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. . . how about just the stationary (letterhead) ? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sat, 10/28/2006 - 7:31am
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By all means you have every right to tape the meetings as this is not a phonecall and you need to make a decision based on the meeting it does not fall under the "two party consent" law. I'd bring a microcasset recorder or some small device that is easy to operate(a diigital recorder works best) because you can import it to Audacity(a free software) and make Cd's from it. I would prefer the digital recorder over the tape as you can make a CD which holds better than a tape.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:17am
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I thought so too... but I could be wrong.
I taped a few...er, "for personal reasons" when I worked in academia. Figured it was my right to tape my own conversations... even if another person didn't know it was happening.
Never had to use any of them, but I was sick of being lied to and playing "he said-she said." (grimly)My personal feeling is that if the thought occurs to you to record the meeting-- you should.
I guess I'd plop the tape recorder on the table and if anyone objects, smile and ask "Why ever not??"
Maybe they think it will, ummm, 'steal their souls' or something? To have their voices recorded, you know.... [i]of course, this asssumes that they have souls to begin with...[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:27am
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MB, I looked into this at one point with another parent and we asked OCR. I dug through my old e-mails and found this response from OCR:
____________________________________________________
[i]In response to your question concerning Section 504 meetings and whether you were allowed to tape record conversations in these meeting. The below information was obtained off the web-site based upon your concerns.
DO PARENTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAPE RECORD MEETINGS & CONFERENCES?
"The subject of whether or not a parent has the right to tape record IEP meetings frequently arises. Based upon recent guidance contained in appendix A to the 1999 IDEA regulations, it appears that the answer is: "It depends." In order to understand whether an enforceable right to tape an IEP conference exists in a particular situation, one must reference both state and federal law on this issue...Parents wishing to use audio or video recording devices at IEP meetings should consult state or local policies for further guidance...There is no law or regulation that specifically allows or prohibits the taping of IEP conferences. Thus, under its general powers, a school board could, under state law, adopt reasonable rules and regulations sustaining a general prohibition against taping, provided that exceptions were allowed. However, our overall sense of this issue is that a parent could pretty easily establish the need to tape record an IEP conference based upon the vague language contained in the appendix, [Appendix A to the 1999 IDEA regulations] and a court reviewing this issue would likely give deference to the guidance provided by the Untied States Department of Education on this issue."
(Attorneys Sweet, Stevens, Tucker & Katz, LLP Home Page. "Tape Recording of IEP Conferences." < [url="http://www.sweetstevens.com/FSL5CS/special"]http://www.sweetstevens.com/FSL5CS/special[/url] education/special education64.asp >.) twelfth
The bottom line - there is no law or regulation that specifically allows or prohibits the taping of IEP conferences. Thus, under its general powers, a school could, under state law, adopt reasonable rules and regulations sustaining a general prohibition against taping, provided that exceptions were allowed.
If you have any additional questions concerning this matter please feel free to contact me.
(name)
Equal Opportunity Advisor
U.S. Department of Education
Kansas City, Missouri
(816) xxx-xxxx voice
(816) xxx-xxxx fax
(800) 437-0833 TTY[/i]

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:31am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
I have just been told by the principal that if [b]even one[/b] person objects to my taping the meeting, I cannot.
Is this a policy?
Can the principal show this policy to you in writing?
If it's not a policy, can the principal show you the minutes of the meeting in which this decision was agreed upon?
Are exceptions allowed?
Where does it say that exceptions are/aren't allowed?

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:33am
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aw, Corvallismom, I'm so sorry if I've been a cranky itchbe. I don't deserve the laugh you just gave me.
So, can I borrow the "souls" line??? canIcanIcanI????? Already, I'm almost hoping they refuse.....
And with all sincerity, can I count it as ingratiating myself to them?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
digressing....I had a dream last night...I dreamt a train was barrelling through me over and over and over..(I could feel the sudden draft, sorta like a giant airzooka---kept waking me up. It seemed so loud, my ears hurt.)
They keep telling me I have to come to the meeting [i]without the baggage[/i]. [i]They make it all but impossible.[/i]
But, hey, the h*ll I do. Who do they think they are, telling me how to feel, when to feel it, and what I'm allowed to ask???
end digression. Is there any legal quip that says I can tape, and the meeting must go on? I'm too tired and beat down to even look it up. It's so depressing.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:35am
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oh, gail, thank you. I just saw your post....
I already am feeling more prepared....

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 7:41am
Gail W's picture
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How important is this issue? If you press for written policy, they produce none and yet still refuse, would you be wiling to walk out of the meeting then and there?

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:02am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]How important is this issue? If you press for written policy, they produce none and yet still refuse, would you be wiling to walk out of the meeting then and there?[/b]
Gail, this is the school I originally walked out on with my first cub.
I'm sure they would just *love* that I pack this one up too. I'm on the verge and they know it....
Can't say I did a bad job with the first one. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I picked my child up early this morning. (Yet another playground accident) There was the district nurse, the social worker, and the principal there waiting for me....
Honestly? Intimidation has been the only mode operandi this particular school in the district has ever employed with me. It comes as no surprise.
The teacher sent home a worksheet paper with "three hours of one-to-one" written on it. [i]The answers were all wrong.[/i]
Can you believe it? Three hours and the only productive thing that comes of it is [i]wrong answers[/i]. [b]No wonder my middle child is in a tizzy.[/b] I mean, (sarcasm) [i]what a great lesson to learn[/i]: Three hours of intensity brings absolutely no learning. No insight. Nothing but "oh, yeah kid, you still can't show me how."
I'm almost afraid to send him into that situation again...
When I discussed this concern with a person at the district, there was giggling...
first I have to deal with eyerolling, now [i]giggling[/i]. And there is offense taken when I ask them to stop.
Weren't you the one who posted about [i]giggling[/i] before? If so, I can soooooo sympathize.
Oh, and the tutoring? The first day, [i]they forgot[/i] and sent him to wait for his ride home. Good thing we showed up early.

Posted on: Tue, 09/19/2006 - 8:22am
Gail W's picture
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Do you want to force this issue? Depending on what you want . . . you could try to address it once and for all at the very start of the meeting. You'd have to take charge and be willing to leave. Do you want to do that? You might have to get up and walk out. . .
1. Go in with the tape recorder and set it on the table. Boom.
2. If they tell you, "no" then [b]turn it on anyway [/b]and state into the recorder, "I have been told by X that I must turn off this tape recorder. Please state why I have been asked to turn off the tape recorder."
3. If they refuse you, just say this is something you need dealt with now. You can wait for them to provide you with the information that you are requesting, but that you need supporting documentation of the assertion you cannot tape record you child's IEP meeting.
4. You can then present a prepared letter stating your intent to tape the meeting. Before sliding it across the table read the letter into the tape recorder:
[i] "This letter is to inform you of our intent to tape record our son's, Cub X, IEP Meeting. If you prohibit us from tape recording this meeting, we request that you provide us with the X School District policy stating that we cannot tape record IEP meetings and the minutes of the School Board in which this policy was passed. Sincerely, Mr/Mrs Bear" [/i]
4. If they still want you to turn off the tape recorder, say that you will when they provide you with the written information that you've requested. If they refuse to provide that, you could say that you can wait for it.
5. If they still refuse, you could ask to reschedule at a time when they can provide you with this information. You could walk out.
I mean, you could have the show down right then and there. Before the 'real' meeting even starts.

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You might have wondered if small amounts of an ingredient can be added to a food product without being declared on the food’s label. The FDA...

Is it possible to eat your way to a food allergy cure? Scientists think it’s...

There are many reasons why you may want to substitute almond flour for wheat flour in recipes. Of course, if you have a...

Not all oils are created equal. Some oils are high in saturated fats or in trans-fatty acids – not good for general health. Some are partially...

It may never be safe to begin feeding peanut butter to your baby or toddler if you have peanut allergies in your family. If either parent or one...

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What is a peanut allergy? It is a reaction that occurs in the body after eating peanuts or peanut...

For those with severe food allergies, flying can be a stressful process. Here are...

Approximately one out of 13 children under age 18 are allergic to at least one food, though many of them will outgrow their allergy by the age of...

Fact 1: Over a third of food allergy reactions happen after the first known oral...

The reason why some people are affected by allergies while others are not begins in their genes. Allergies are passed down from generation to...

Here’s a tip that might someday save your life, or that of a loved one: two to four times a year, review the proper way to use your epinephrine...

Lactose intolerance is the inability to process lactose, a sugar found in milk, caused by the lack of a needed enzyme. Those with lactose...

Food Allergen Labeling and Consumer Protection Act (FALCPA)

An important part of peanut allergy awareness was enacted on January 1, 2006...

Tomato allergies are very rare. They are a "type 1 allergy," which means a contact allergy. When a person with this type of allergy touches a...

Milk allergies are becoming more common, especially in babies and small children. There is some confusion about what is an allergic reaction and...

Recognizing food allergy in babies or toddlers is not always easy, but there are specific risk factors and signs that parents and other caregivers...

Burlap bags are often used to store and ship coffee beans, potatoes, rice, seeds, nuts, and peanuts. They can be one of the disguised...

People with pollen allergies need to stay away from some foods. If you have allergic rhinitis in the spring or fall, you may not realize that you...

Of course, everyone knows that if you have a peanut allergy that you should avoid peanuts, peanut butter, peanut butter cookies and foods that...

Eating at a nut-free lunch table in school is a safety precaution that causes some students to feel isolated from their peers. Unfortunately,...