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Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 5:06am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]Really. I just don't want to ruffle... feeling a little ruffle-shy since Cindy left. Just my own personal deal...[/b]
I don't think you'll ruffle any of us here Gail, so nothing to worry about. Those who are easily offended would most likely stay away from debate/dialogue threads.
Quote:Originally posted by becca:
[b]Erik, I am surprised at your change in demeanor, in putting on your debating hat! Not bad surpirsed, and I do not find you offensive. You are just such a peace keeper it is a new side of you we are seeing.[/b]
Hi Becca,
Yes, I may be a peace keeper, but I also have strong opinions and will defend them... hehe I will be here to defend my peanut-free products (Canadian Kit Kat, Dempster's waffles, etc..) haha [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 5:10am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Cayley's Mom:
[b]Check out the difference between debate and dialogue at this link [url="http://clinton3.nara.gov/Initiatives/OneAmerica/a2.html"]http://clinton3.nara.gov/Initiatives/OneAmerica/a2.html[/url] and hopefully we can can the debate and create the dialogue.
Wishful thinking?[/b]
Hi Carolyn,
Thanks for your link - it is very helpful to all of us. I think with Momma Bear, Gail, Anna Marie, Cam's Mom, and myself and whoever else wants to join) we should actually be able to have a good dialogue - let's see what happens, but I think this will work. Of course, you are the master at this (as we saw in the War Thread) so whatever you say will carry the day.. hehe [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Looking forward to your opinions as well [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[b]Live long and prosper[/b] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 7:24am
LisaMcDowell's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2002 - 09:00

Time out for clarifications please!
Hi Melanie,
You were absolutely right in mentioning that you had missed out on the discussion between Erik & myself because what you posted is a wayward turn from what we were discussing. I mentioned male principals only because they dominate the field & it fit the subject matter. The problem you incurred had nothing to do w/gender, it had to do w/the fact that that particular principal was an irrational, hostile & offensive person to say the least.
Hi Anna Marie,
You're off the hook, I originally used the term "game".
Hi MB,
Before I posted "to you specifically" I spoke w/my sister & a dear friend who are both Special Education Teachers for the autistic. "I obviously didn't get" what they were trying to tell me & did a lousy job of using an analogy to accommodate your autism. I truly am sorry & I beg your forgiveness!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all parents w/an autistic child, I think homeschooling or a specialized school are very good choices if PA is treated secondary to autism. This is only a gut reaction on my part because I have seen the other side of what can happen to an autistic child in the public school system if they are not treated properly. My older brother's life was a living hell due to abusive teachers. Due to that trauma & that of my Mother's constant battles w/the school it still affects him to this day at the age of 48 because he also has schizophrenia.
He is a semi-recluse, but is a very happy & content one living on a farm that our family purchased for him to grow all the fruits & vegetables he wants. My sister is trying to find someone to negotiate the sales of his produce because too much contact w/people drives him to get intoxicated & consequently that also attracts people to abuse him.
My point is that my brother probably would have done better had there been an alternative to public school. My Mother simply could not have home schooled him due to her own lack of education. As for his schizophrenia, it was only "suggested" that the years of abuse by the school system triggered it at an early age (16). Please just try to be content w/homeschooling or look for a different or an alternative school. This is not a criticism or as a way to tell anyone what to do; it comes from my heart w/the feeling that everyone should do their best to put aside things that don't work & live happily!
~Take care.
Sorry for the interruption Erik. Please everyone continue!
[This message has been edited by LisaMcDowell (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 7:51am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]Time out for clarifications please!
............................
Sorry for the interruption Erik, please continue![/b]
Hi Lisa,
The interruption is fine...you are welcome to post in this thread anytime... in a debate/dialogue thread we need time to come up for air anyway, and I am sure yours won't be the first clarification to appear here - people can easily misinterpret each other in debates so I am sure we'll see many more clarifications to come.
Actually, you don't even have to debate in order to post here as I think all posts contribute to the discussion... (or should we debate that?) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
[edited to fix typos so Nick will be happy] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 11:35am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b][b]
MommaBear, would you be happy with the situation we have at our school? That is,
a full-time RN, a "care plan" in the form of an IHP, a "no food" policy for the primary classroom, an earnest endeavor to remove all nuts from the school lunch program, documented staff training by RN, epi-pen (unlocked) in classrooms, and emergency procedures? (There are other things, too, but these are the main ones...)
[/b]
[b]Personally[/b], and with respect to my own [b]individual and unique[/b] situation (and whom in my own family that entails)and not in any manner or form offering advice or recommendations for anyone else.............:
Providing there are some PPP and SOC [i]where applicable[/i] (Something tells me you may be way ahead of me here) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img], by which to achieve and promote goals.
[i]I am drooling over the thought[/i].
Also:
[b]Personally[/b], and with respect to my own [b]individual and unique[/b] situation (and whom in my own family that entails)and not in any manner or form offering advice or recommendations for anyone else.............:
I would [i]require[/i] a [i]"504"[/i] (in addition to his IEP, considering the particular "motivation" it ("504") holds. Or at least in my limited understanding.
Also:
[b]Personally[/b], and with respect to my own [b]individual and unique[/b] situation (and whom in my own family that entails)and not in any manner or form offering advice or recommendations for anyone else...........
Still pondering "close proximity" in light of several recent laws.
[i]dabbing the corner of my mouth still...[/i]
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 11:51am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

MommaBear, is that a qualified "yes"? If my situation were written up in the form of a 504, you would be satisfied?
(Just clarifying.)
Gail
BTW, as you know, I would also prefer the 504 because of the "motivation". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 2:55pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]MommaBear, is that a qualified "yes"? If my situation were written up in the form of a 504, you would be satisfied?
[/b]
Personally, and with respect to my own individual and unique situation (and whom in my own family that entails)and not in any manner or form offering advice or recommendations for anyone else.............:
Would it happen to include a "Epinephrine Competency Skill Check List" or the like?(page 52 of "Managing Life Threatening Food Allergies in Schools"** documentation form?) And any similiar "addendums" by which to make PPP and SOC (where applicable) [i]defineable, measurable, enforceable, and realistically achievable?[/i]
Would it also clearly delineate and define roles as necessary? (Possibly detailing a "Chain of Command" for concerns and questions?)
Would it [i]be in accordance with any applicable laws and statutes, and would actions outlined therein be in compliance to any standards of governing bodies over licenses (or lack thereof) involved in its creation and upkeep?[/i]
Even a letter addressed to appropriate persons in the school community, from the school, with input from the guardians of the food-allergic child, endorsed by appropriate, authorized school personnel, with a method for ensuring and documenting its receipt and comprehension of the contents therein?
Would this letter be [i]individualized for the student [/i], but still retain [b]critical elements[/b] by which to address a [i]life-threatening food allergy[/i], and any PPP and/or SOC instituted by the school pertaining to reducing the risk of exposure to the particular substance through the school and their agent's endevors as well as through the cooperation of the school community's endevors towards reduction overall of the substance in the school environment (and it's extensions) where realistically achievable, as well as explaining certain realistically achievable and reasonable expectations to offer a first line defense against extremely untoward, possibly deadly exposure to the substance ie: reduction of risk =[i]benefit[/i] to the particular student at risk, and potential for great bodily harm or death ie:[i]risk[/i]that may arise via exposure to the substance, possibly through apathy, lack of critical key information or understanding, apathy, and/or non-compliance, or even a lack of channels (quite possibly perpetuating poor outcomes) by which to address questions or concerns? . (applicable to all school community?)
(Trying not to be redundant, although hubby feels [i]redundancy[/i] is sometime the key to safety.)
**
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000907.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000907.html[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely drooling excessively.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 10:41pm
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Would it happen to include a "Epinephrine Competency Skill Check List" or the like?(page 52 of "Managing Life Threatening Food Allergies in Schools"** documentation form?) And any similiar "addendums" by which to make PPP and SOC (where applicable) [i]defineable, measurable, enforceable, and realistically achievable?[/i] [/b]
Yes, our school nurse developed annual training documentation for all staff. Staff meet individually w/ the nurse, watch the Dey slide show (in her office), practice epi-pen training, review Mariah's Action Plan, and disucuss any questions. Then the nurse and staff member sign the "check list".
[b] "Would it also clearly delineate and define roles as necessary? (Possibly detailing a 'Chain of Command' for concerns and questions?)" [/b]
Staff roles are clearly delineated. An example is the "911 procedures" that clearly states a "who does what". The IHP states who is responsible for duties pertaining to specific safeguards. The school states in the IHP that they will provide "necessary staff" to oversee the lunch monitoring and hand washing that occurs in the cafeteria.
[b] "Would it [i]be in accordance with any applicable laws and statutes, and would actions outlined therein be in compliance to any standards of governing bodies over licenses (or lack thereof) involved in its creation and upkeep?" [/i][/b]
Yes, an example of this is that Missouri law does not allow for students to carry their epi-pen (tho asthma inhalers are okay). When Mariah has an after-school playdate, she must drop off her med kit at the nurse's office and pick it up after school.
[b] "Even a letter addressed to appropriate persons in the school community, from the school, with input from the guardians of the food-allergic child, endorsed by appropriate, authorized school personnel, with a method for ensuring and documenting its receipt and comprehension of the contents therein?" [/b]
No, I don't think we meet this criteria. A letter is sent to parents (from the principal, nurse, and school counselor) by US mail. The letter explains the basics of PA ("life threatening" terms) and states that the school will comply with district practices (e.g. naming the "no food in the classroom" practice and others). It asks parents to voluntarily refrain from sending in products containing nuts. We had zero input in the letter because it is from the school (not us), but really like it.
At the fall "Meet Your Teacher Night" it is up to the discression of the teacher whether or not she wants to address it further. Questions from parents are addressed if they come up. (It is the teacher's responsibility to maintain the "no food" status of the classroom.)
[b] "Would this letter be [i]individualized for the student [/i], but still retain critical elements by which to address a [i]life-threatening food allergy[/i], and any PPP and/or SOC instituted by the school pertaining to reducing the risk of exposure to the particular substance through the school and their agent's endevors as well as through the cooperation of the school community's endevors towards reduction overall of the substance in the school environment (and it's extensions) where realistically achievable, as well as explaining certain realistically achievable and reasonable expectations to offer a first line defense against extremely untoward, possibly deadly exposure to the substance ie: reduction of risk =[i]benefit[/i] to the particular student at risk, and potential for great bodily harm or death ie:[i]risk[/i]that may arise via exposure to the substance, possibly through apathy, lack of critical key information or understanding, apathy, and/or non-compliance, or even a lack of channels (quite possibly perpetuating poor outcomes) by which to address questions or concerns? . (applicable to all school community?)" [/b]
Yes and No. It is not individualized for Mariah specifically. There are now other PA students (other grade levels) and the same letter (to parents) is used for their grade-level as well. It states the school district's protocal on PA and emphasizes the need for cooperation f rom "the community".
For staff, I don't believe there is any letter. (I am not privy to internal correspondance, tho.) However, the school has arranged staff training thru the Asthma & Allergy Foundation~ an allergist came to the school to conduct an all-staff seminar on FA. And the nurse conducts annual training that she documents.
Our IHP is signed by 4 school staff (the school pricipal, the school nurse, the school counselor, the teacher) and us (parents). It is reviewed at least twice a year (August before the start of school ) and again in February. It is revised, resigned and reissued to staff at that time. The IHP is 13 pages and addressed how specific safeguards will be implemented. (No where in the document are the words "peanut free" used.)
Now, I agree that the 504 would be a more powerful route and I always encourage any newcomers to pursue the 504 instead of the IHP. There have been a couple times that this has come into play where the school nurse erred on the "side of caution" which resulted in (what we believe to be) some discrimination. But those 2 cases (e.g. sitting on the bus alone) were addressed to our satisfaction.
[b]MommaBear, would these conditions be acceptable to you (if in the form of the 504)? [/b]
Gail
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 21, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 11:31pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

I really, really, really, really, want to answer some questions directed at me NOW.
But,
my children are literally clawing at me to fix them breakfast. As is hubby. Breakfast for children may not be as involved as breakfast for hubby.
(The glow of new toys purchased yesterday has since worn off------either that or the toys have since met unfortunate ends.)
[i]Sigh[/i]
To greatly reduce the risk of bodily injury and stay in my hubby's good graces, I will try to address them later tonight?
[b]And, most likely Gail, I will wrap up my reply........... You might be pleasantly surprised.[/b]
Thank you for your active participation in a subject dear to heart,
[i]You are a gem and a treasure[/i]
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
COULD I POSSIBLY LIKE THIS THREAD ANY MORE??
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/21/2003 - 12:15am
arachide's picture
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Joined: 08/16/2000 - 09:00

Could a board-approved School Allergy Committee be recognized as the regulatory body required to develop/ENFORCE/update the PPP's and SoC's?
Such a committee, upon official sanction of the school, could serve as the channel by which to address and REGULATE these issues, acknowledged by administration, staff, parents, and students...
(sorry I've been "absent" --I'm trying to get an appointment with my doc tomorrow --think I've got pneumonia...oh joy... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] )

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