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Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:12am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

(Quietly noting some flattering similarities between Carolyn and Gail.)

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:13am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

[b] Edited to add: when I wrote this I had not yet read the two preceding posts by Cayley's Mom and Momma Bear. That's pretty weird... We must all have been on the same wavelength.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] [/b]
I'm popping back in. Hope that's okay... (to pop in and out) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I felt I made my points in the other thread(s) before getting side-tracked in other things like ... um ... well... [i]life, my kids [/i], which took me away from the computer. Sometimes I can't find all the time necessary to fully participate, and my brain just hurts after a while and I need a coffee break. I'm not hoping for any crowns, I just think there are some good concepts here and I like thinking about them. And I am open to changing my opinions...
I wish Cam's Mom would join in...
I think MommaBear has an interesting perspective (nursing) and I value it very much. I'm sorry that ...I really don't quite know how to say this... that her points aren't ... heard/understood (I'm trying hard not to ruffle anyone here, please don't anyone take offense).
I very much value having a school nurse (full time RN). And, as I posted before, it was a requirement when we "shopped" for a school to move to. I think our RN is the reason that we have written procedures (the PPP and SOC that MommaBear speaks of often), and why it was "bumped up" to the district level. My husband and I were very persistent which also helped, but having a full-time RN raises the bar to what can be expected (the SOC issue)and achieved (the PPP issue).
I think MommaBear is in a unique situation (being an RN) to share why having a school nurse is so important in her opinion. I think others here could truly benefit from her knowledge.
MommaBear, would you be happy with the situation we have at our school? That is,
a full-time RN, a "care plan" in the form of an IHP, a "no food" policy for the primary classroom, an earnest endeavor to remove all nuts from the school lunch program, documented staff training by RN, epi-pen (unlocked) in classrooms, and emergency procedures? (There are other things, too, but these are the main ones...)
Can you explain why or why not?
Gail
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:20am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Debates can be enjoyable, and as MB and I (seem) to agree, they can also be educational.
And MommaBear, I really would like to know what you require for your child in a school setting. Personally and specifically.
I'm not sure if I have offended you. Kind of sounds like I might have, but, honestly I'm not trying to. We were bouncing things back and forth in a thread about peanut/gun free. It sounded [i]to me[/i] like you thought banning peanuts wasn't possible. When I asked what you personally and specifically required you gave me qualifications for a nurse. Hockey with a football. I think this time you were the one speaking in broader terms, and assuming I was following you.
So, now, other than a [i]very[/i] highly qualified nurse, what other requirements for your child? (Multiple links not required and sometimes ignored - time restraints [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img]).
BTW, my comment about you having more faith in nurses than me was because I misunderstood and thought that was the [b]only[/b] requirement you had.

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:27am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[BI think MommaBear has an interesting perspective (nursing) and I value it very much. I'm sorry that ...I really don't quite know how to say this... that her points aren't ... heard/understood (I'm trying hard not to ruffle anyone here, please don't anyone take offense).
[/B]
Gail, I agree with the first sentence.
If it's my feathers you don't want to ruffle, well, ruffle away. I have definitely misunderstood some of her postings (and not for the first time either).

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:35am
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:originally posted by Momma Bear
[b]#1. Would you have to have a realistically achievable, enforceable, defineable, measureable Policy, Procedure, Protocol, and/or Standard of Care in order to "update" it? LOLOLOLOLOL.[/b]
Actually, I believe you do need this. But Rome wasn't built in a day, as Julius Caesar often stated while eating his merlot topped peanut-free waffles for breakfast. Maybe the peanut-ban can't be perfect right away. As Cayley's Mom had mentioned, people before her at her school did the initial work, and by the time she arrived all that was required was minor fine-tuning. I guess the point of this [i]dialogue[/i] (thanks for that link Carolyn [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] ) is to try to determine which ways we can keep children safe in schools. In some cases peanut bans may be the way to go - in other cases, maybe other procedures are the way to go. This dialogue can help us to determine some solutions.
Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]Yes, all of the above manufacturers do have a Policy, Protocol, or Procedure which determines why they label the products as "peanut-free", which is that they make their products in a peanut-free environment from peanut-free ingredients.[/b]
Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Fantastic I would be interested in the details.[/b]
Unfortunately I do not have the details. I do know that they emphasize their peanut safety (ie: that they use peanut free facilities and their suppliers are peanut-free) but I do not know the details. I guess I just trust them, and I think most other Canadians feel the same way as we are familiar with these companies (Nestle, Chapmans, etc).
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Guess you may get my point, then? It's really not the label, but where one places it and under what circumstances.[/b]
Let's pop open the merlot! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Yes, I have always agreed with you on that point. A label means nothing unless there are policies and procedures in place. Any classroom can say they are peanut free - but is there any substance behind the statement? That is the question...
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]How would you feel about a healthcare institution that decided to state/label all surgical procedures complication-free, simply because that was the "goal"? Would you consider this "ethical"?[/b]
Yes, this is a good point. I know they don't do this, as when I had my wisdom teeth out I was told there was a extremely remote chance of nerve jaw damage during the procedure. There are no guarantees in life. Like I said, when the light turns green, we do not blindly cross without looking both ways. Maybe that is why we should just call it something like a "peanut restricted classroom" to show that they are restricted but there is no 100% guarantee that the classroom is 100% peanut-free at all times.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b](Never burnt my hand on a waffle iron either)[/b]
That's great to hear! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] hmmm.. still not sure why you question Dempster's peanut-free waffles as a breakfast choice? Inquiring minds want to know. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Are you a major shareholder in EGGO perhaps??? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Show me a Policy, Protocol, Procedure, and/or Standard of Care that puts forth a plan in realistic, attainable, enforceable terms to achieve such a goal: "Peanut Free/Ban" and I just may be the first in line asking for it. (As I *personally* have been unable to do the same)[/b]
OK.. so that's the challenge.
Does anyone here have a plan for their child's school that may meet Momma Bear's standards? Gail? Cayley's Mom? Anna Marie? That is the question.. (well, besides the more well known [i]to be or not to be..... [/i] question) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:38am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

No, AnnaMarie, I wasn't thinking of you or anyone in particular. Really. I just don't want to ruffle... feeling a little ruffle-shy since Cindy left. Just my own personal deal...
I think MommaBear might be in a bind, sort of, being that she has made it known that she is an RN and so what she says could be taken as professional in some way. Is that true, MommaBear? I wonder if she is trying to point us to her opinions in less direct ways that are "safe" (in links, for example).

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:46am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]I'm popping back in. Hope that's okay... (to pop in and out) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I wish Cam's Mom would join in...[/b]
As the creator of this thread, I feel I can state [b]of course it is ok!!![/b]. Many of us have time restraints and can't be here everyday.. just pop in when you have time [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Cam's Mom is just busy - I am sure she'll be back.
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]I think MommaBear has an interesting perspective (nursing) and I value it very much. I'm sorry that ...I really don't quite know how to say this... that her points aren't ... heard/understood (I'm trying hard not to ruffle anyone here, please don't anyone take offense). [/b]
Of course I won't take offense. As I have told many people who were afraid they offended me, I don't offend easily. Anne Marie can pick on me every day, and I'll just laugh (I have to be nice to her, as she is the one who is going to bake me that chocolate cake with a file in it). Actually, my points may not always be well understood either, as half the time I don't know what I am writing about either.
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]I think MommaBear is in a unique situation (being an RN) to share why having a school nurse is so important in her opinion. I think others here could truly benefit from her knowledge. [/b]
Yes... I agree a school nurse would be invaluable for us. But here in Ontario, the government will not fund school nurses since they are spending all their ("our") money buying overpriced electricity from Quebec and New York. So any solution for ONtario will have to be without full time school nurses in all our schools, but at least we can tap Momma Bear's wisdom and knowledge of nursing in order to assist with this dialogue - I know I know nothing about nursing except for what I learned watching General Hospital back in the 1980s. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]MommaBear, would you be happy with the situation we have at our school? That is,
a full-time RN, a "care plan" in the form of an IHP, a "no food" policy for the primary classroom, an earnest endeavor to remove all nuts from the school lunch program, documented staff training by RN, epi-pen (unlocked) in classrooms, and emergency procedures? (There are other things, too, but these are the main ones...)
[/b]
Even though I would prefer peanuts to be restricted, I would be happy with Gail's plan as it seems well thought out and quite safe for the PA kids. It will be interesting to read Momma Bear's comments [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:51am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

I really, really, really, really, want to answer some questions directed at me NOW.
But,
my children are literally clawing at me to take them to a local chain toy store. ACK.
To greatly reduce the risk of bodily injury and stay in my hubby's good graces, I will try to address them later tonight?
Again, I'm starting to really like this thread.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:59am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] MommaBear, you can come and go as time permits as well. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 5:00am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
To greatly [b]reduce the risk[/b] of bodily injury and stay in my hubby's good graces, I will try to address them later tonight?
Again, I'm starting to really like this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
Yes, that's what this thread's all about - [b]reduce the risk[/b] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] I am glad you like this thread. It seems to be quite popular on its first day. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

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