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Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 1:58am
MommaBear's picture
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WHOOOOOOOOOOOA.
just found the debate thread. LOL.
More seriously, though...........
it appears as if some do view it as a "game".
*Personally* not wondering anymore why some schools may view it as such, if some in the same community demonstrate the same.
[i]Sigh.[/i]
Eric, although I am a nurse...... I am also a mother. I also function as my son's "teacher" (homeschooling), and the Principal's wife. LOL.
You may begin........oh, never mind.
With regards to my son's *personal* homeschooling. The Principal (and "athletic director")(hubby) and I (nurse, mom, wife, "teacher")are in the process of updating our Policy, Procedure, Protocol, etc........... in light of recent events. Even though they did not occur during school hours. LOL?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 2:03am
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Quote:Originally posted by MeCash:
[b] I must have missed this post between you two, erik, because my experience is just the opposite.
At my son's school last year (we home school now), the female principal there was nothing short of [i]evil[/i] to me. I wrote letters to the school months before it started explaining my sons problems (Asperger's, CAPD, PA, asthma) and what accommodations needed to be implemented (he had an existing IEP from early intervention and was in SLP, so we didn't have to set one up) and that further testing would be in order.
The CAPD is a hearing dysfunction and effects his vestibular processing capabilities. If he goes to lunch in the cafeteria or is overwhelmed with sound or hears a fire alarm, he will shut down completely for hours after that and stim (self stimulate ~ rock, chew on things, be incapable of functioning).
When I found out a couple weeks into school that my son was eating in the cafeteria AND not eating at the allergen free/PN free table (my step-son narked on the school! YAY for siblings!), I went down to the school to talk with the Principal. I had never met her before, although I had met several times with the vice-principal (a man) on the IEP paperwork and the continued testing I requested.
She looked briefly at my file, then said, "Are you sure there's even anything wrong with your son? Are you sure he's just not being neglected at home?" My jaw dropped! I stood there processing what she had just said to me and shook with anger. She had basically told me, without ever having met me, without ever having read ONE of my letters to the school, that there was nothing wrong with my son and it was all in my imagination and that I had to be neglecting him at home?? OMG!
I turned flush red and just shook with a look of complete shock on my face until I finally burst out, "HOW DARE YOU! How dare you accuse me of neglecting my son without even meeting him, without even reading the file!! Without so much as even LOOKING at the medical support, recommendations and information provided by many reputable doctors!! HOW DARE YOU!" I then slammed some papers I had been given down in front of her and demanded she look at the file.
Luckily, in walks the special education teacher who mediates and successfully gets my child OUT of the cafeteria entirely (eating lunch with her.) I told the SE teacher that next time I was required to speak to that principal, she would be hard pressed to keep me from decking her.
Obviously, I never did speak to her again and she finally left the school this year, but so did I. We home school, but not because of PA ~ entirely. Sure, it plays a part, but not the determining part.
I also think that MommaBear didn't decide to home school EXCLUSIVELY because of PA either. I think for her it was more of a determining factor than it was for me, but we both have Aspie kids.
~Melanie
P.S. The point to all this being: The vice-principal, a [b]GUY[/b] had an enormous amount of compassion for my son and his situation all around. He was sensitive to the PA, the AS, the CAPD and wanted very much for him to get all the services he needed. He LIKED my son. And I like him. It was the FEMALE principal who was insensitive, judgemental, and downright cruel.
[This message has been edited by MeCash (edited May 20, 2003).][/b]
[i]Deja Vu[/i]
Quoting your whole post, in part, for impact in relation to my relatively small reply.
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
(Hugs)

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 2:12am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MeCash:
[b] At my son's school last year (we home school now), the female principal there was nothing short of [i]evil[/i] to me[/b]
Hi Melanie,
Yes... I believe this to be true also. In general, I think there are more male school principals than there are female school principals (although I assume this is changing each year) so maybe that is why there are more bad experiences with men as they are more common in that job.
As I wrote in my original reply, there are also some women I am sure would be bad too:
Quote:originally posted by Erik
[b]Hi Lisa,
Don't worry.. I did not take offense at all. I think it is true that a lot of male school principals probably do think that the mothers are just paranoid (some female principals probably feel this way too). [/b]
It is a constant struggle to educate the non-PA world about our PA world.

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 2:16am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]With regards to my son's *personal* homeschooling. The Principal (and "athletic director")(hubby) and I (nurse, mom, wife, "teacher")are in the process of updating our Policy, Procedure, Protocol, etc........... in light of recent events. Even though they did not occur during school hours. LOL?[/b]
After hours? hmmm...
Actually, you are updating your policies, procedures, etc? Interesting, as when Anna Marie mentioned that a peanut ban needs to be constantly upgraded and improved, you seemed to think junking it is a better idea rather than updating it to fix any problems that may have occurred..
So are you now saying Anna Marie's idea of updating the policies/procedures actually is valid??? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] So the "time to junk it" idea flew out the window? interesting.............. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 2:59am
becca's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

I don't have time these days to stick and follow my end if I jump into a debate. They are very time consuming. I do enjoy a great debate.
However, this should make for some fun occasional reading!
Erik, I am surprised at your change in demeanor, in putting on your debating hat! Not bad surpirsed, and I do not find you offensive. You are just such a peace keeper it is a new side of you we are seeing. Have Fun!
becca

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 3:17am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
So are you now saying Anna Marie's idea of updating the policies/procedures actually is valid??? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] So the "time to junk it" idea flew out the window? interesting.............. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
Aaaahhh shucks [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img]
Thanks Eric, I guess I should stop picking on you?
And Becca, you are welcome to post as little or as much as you want. Sometimes someone who pops in with just one post makes very important points and they are always welcome.
MommaBear, please don't accuse me of thinking dealing with a child's pa is a game. I have said [i]many[/i] times that I am extremely thankful it's me with food allergies and not my child, and that opinion has not and will never change.
Neither do I feel education is a game. Just the debate.
[This message has been edited by AnnaMarie (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 3:35am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

I did not originally bring up the term "game".
I feel educating is inherently linked to "debate" (call it that, if you will). As it allows for a Critical Analysis of issues at hand.
Would you agree?

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 3:51am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

I would agree that a debate [b]can[/b] be educational.
Debate is not always necessary to educate.
Just wanted to clarify what I was considering a "game", and it is [b]not[/b] a child's life. Do you understand that MommaBear???

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 3:53am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] After hours? hmmm...
Actually, you are updating your policies, procedures, etc? Interesting, as when Anna Marie mentioned that a peanut ban needs to be constantly upgraded and improved, you seemed to think junking it is a better idea rather than updating it to fix any problems that may have occurred..
So are you now saying Anna Marie's idea of updating the policies/procedures actually is valid??? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] So the "time to junk it" idea flew out the window? interesting.............. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).][/b]
#1. Would you have to have a realistically achievable, enforceable, defineable, measureable Policy, Procedure, Protocol, and/or Standard of Care in order to "update" it? LOLOLOLOLOL.
Maybe you missed this in the "Rudeness" thread, as I didn't see a reply:
"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by erik:
Yes, all of the above manufacturers do have a Policy, Protocol, or Procedure which determines why they label the products as "peanut-free", which is that they make their products in a peanut-free environment from peanut-free ingredients.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MommaBear:
[i]Fantastic[/i] I would be interested in the details.
Could that possibly mean that there is indeed a realistic way to meet the goal in those particular situations?
A defineable,
measurable,
realistically achievable,
enforceable
way?
Guess you may get my point, then? It's really not the label, but where one places it and under what circumstances.
Disclaimer: the following is a Purely Hypothetical Situation:>>>>>
[b]How would you feel about a healthcare institution that decided to state/label all surgical procedures complication-free, simply because that was the "goal"? Would you consider this "ethical"?[/b]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form."
You see, eric, I am not against the term "Peanut Free/Ban" in itself. (Never burnt my hand on a waffle iron either)
*Personally*, I believe in asking for accomodations that not only help protect my child, but also do not ask others to compromise their integrity. It's an ethical thing. As well as a "literal thing". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Maybe I can identify more easily with this situation on a [i]professional[/i] level. A "giving as good as we get" issue?
I also *personally* view asking for accomodations that put the goal ahead of any concrete plan to achieve that goal [i]futile[/i] and ineffective.
Show me a Policy, Protocol, Procedure, and/or Standard of Care that puts forth a plan in realistic, attainable, enforceable terms to achieve such a goal: "Peanut Free/Ban" and I just may be the first in line asking for it. (As I *personally* have been unable to do the same)
Is there a way I can be clearer?
ps..... Still in awe of Gail. The forest view is lovely.
Disclaimer, I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 4:03am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Is this really a debate thread? Debates are great for politicians but rate very poorly with regard to actual problem-solving.
Check out the difference between debate and dialogue at this link [url="http://clinton3.nara.gov/Initiatives/OneAmerica/a2.html"]http://clinton3.nara.gov/Initiatives/OneAmerica/a2.html[/url] and hopefully we can can the debate and create the dialogue.
Wishful thinking?

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