Would you send your PA child to a school that refused

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 11:56am
MommaBear's picture
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to take any action to decrease the amount of PB served or brought into the school?

If grade level would influence your decision, what grades and why?

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 12:48pm
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My son currently attends the school district preschool. The kids bring in their own snacks from home. The teacher has allowed me to send letters to the other parents asking them not to send peanut snacks, or may contains, but there is no rule about what they can send. The school has a full time nurse, who has my son's epipen and antihistimine in her office.
The elementary school my son is supposed to attend (beginning fall of '04), also has no regulation of peanuts. They also have bake sales with homebaked goods. They only have a nurse on site one day a week. All medication must be locked in the nurses office. The school secretary has a key. I have often walked by the office and seen noone there. What would happen in an emergency?
While you were just asking about the presence of peanuts, the issues of medication access and allergen presence are too intermingled in my head right now for me to answer one without the other. Sorry.
------------------
Jean
mom to 3-year-old with PA

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 12:54pm
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For the sake of discussion (oh, goody) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
let's say the school in question satisfies one's requests for accomodation regarding medication.
(Jean, thanks for helping me clarify that [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])
MommaBear

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 1:34pm
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I did refuse to send my son to a preschool that made it very clear that it would be an inconvenience to them for me to send my son's snacks in and thought it was preposterous that he should not sit next to another child eating pb.
I also asked permission for me to send a letter to the parents regarding my son's allergy -not asking them to [i]not[/i] send pb, just asking them to avoid it if possible and if not possible, to understand that my child would not be able to sit next to their's if pb was brought in.
Permission denied.
So basically, my son did not go because they were not willing to make reasonable (in my opinion) accomodations. Even if they were willing to meet my every request regarding medication, their unwillingness to understand the need for precaution in respect to exposure was way below my comfort level. At any age. My son is also allergic to bees. Would I encourage him to be a beekeeper? No way. Off the subject, but to me, same threat.
Editing in to say that I feel that just because they are willing to meet my needs in having medication readily accessible, does not necessarily mean they are willing to be ready to handle an emergency. If they don't make the necessary precautions to [b]avoid[/b] a reaction, I would not feel confident that they would be ready to handle one.
Anxiously awaiting your rebuttal, MommaBear. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Dawn (edited April 14, 2003).]

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 9:23pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Dawn:
[b]
Editing in to say that I feel that just because they are willing to meet my needs in having medication readily accessible, does not necessarily mean they are willing to be ready to handle an emergency. If they don't make the necessary precautions to [b]avoid[/b] a reaction, I would not feel confident that they would be ready to handle one.
Anxiously awaiting your rebuttal, MommaBear. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
B]
[i]No rebuttal here, Dawn [/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
I'm not into [i]Martyrdom.[/i] And placing a child in that situation creates a strong potential for it (Martyrdom).
[b]I. M. H. O.[/b]
Loved your beekeeper example, BTW. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
MommaBear

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 10:18pm
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[quote]Originally posted by MommaBear:
[B]
[i]No rebuttal here, Dawn [/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Aw, MommaBear! I was thinking you would have a different angle to look at.
It was an emotional decision not to send him, but certainly (imho) the right one. They were numbskulls at that school, and I guess a numbskull is still a numbskull at any angle. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 10:29pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Dawn:
[b] They were numbskulls at that school, and I guess a numbskull is still a numbskull at any angle. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
(Clouds parting and a single ray of sunshine pierces the meadow............)
[i]There's hope for the neurotypicals yet.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Again, no rebuttal [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
MommaBear

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 10:35pm
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PS Dawn,
although I am entraced by a hearty debate that brings forth other's personal insight, (as we are all unique and diverse), I can't argue with Common Sense. BTW, I truly can [b]appreciate[/b] your post.
Heartily,
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 10:57pm
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MommaBear,
I see that you have lots of fans [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 11:14pm
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I took my son out of school in large part because of the way they dealt with peanuts. They try to make accomodations, like having a special 'allergen free' table, but they were inconsistent with recognizing my sons PA and I was told repeatedly by my step-son who attended the same school that my son was not at the 'allergen free' table and when I asked my son, he said his teacher wouldn't let him sit over there.
Add the PA to his Asperger's Syndrome (high functioning autism) and the horrific way his disorder was dealt with in the public schools and home schooling began too look REALLY good.
Fact is, at this point I would never send my child back to school. My PA daughter is only 2 and because of my experiences with my son, I have no intent to ever put her in any kind of school or daycare. For me, it's too much to expect the schools, other students and administration to make the accomodations necessary for my child to be safe AND get an education.
And I fully expect my son to be finished with high school by age 16 at the rate he is going now. He is 7 and starting the 3rd grade curriculum next week. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] And he is happy and peanut free, to boot!
~Melanie

Posted on: Mon, 04/14/2003 - 11:42pm
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Refused is the key word for me.
I ask, they refuse me, entirely, I would not send my child.
We work together on solving problems, I would consider it.
Refusal to me is saying more about an entire attitude rather than my specific issue.
They are surely of an attitude to be "refusing" lots of others on many levels. becca

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 12:18am
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Would I send my child to a school that refused to take any action to decrease the amount of PB served or brougt into the school?
No.
Even if your child had access to epi?
Still no.
I would also not send my child to a school that did not have a full-time school nurse. (Just our comfort zone.)
This was essentially the situation for the public school that Mariah was originally zoned to attend (gave signals that they were resistant to decrease PB, nurse only 1 day/week, over 25 per classroom). We sold our house and moved.
Our criteria for "shopping" for a new school included requirements for: low student/teacher ratio, full time nurse, food allergy management plan in place (or willing to create one), and of course access to epi.
We are very happy with our selection.

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 12:48am
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Jean,
Aren't you in Illinois? If you go to Schools, I raised a thread about allergy policies in Chicago Pub Schools. According to what I've seen, Illinois considers epipen to be emergency treatment, not regular medication, and it can be administered by teachers. My son has his epipen in the classroom and it goes with him to all specials, lunchroom, and out to recess. Keep pushing--your school district has invented its own little rule, it is not a state-wide rule.
Also, your own letter from a pediatrician or allergist stating that the epipen must not be kept locked away will overrule any local policy that the school has in place. The 504 is designed specifically for each child's needs, and you need to get in in the 504 that your child needs the epipen immediately available at all times. The district rule is for "everybody else." The 504 is written specifically for your child.
Have you already started meeting with the school for next year? It's good to start early. It took a while to "get through" to my son's school, since he was the first PA student, but they eventually got the message and they now understand the importance of having the epipen always available.
Good luck!

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:08am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
I would also not send my child to a school that did not have a full-time school nurse. (Just our comfort zone.)
[/b]
The Clouds have not only parted, BUT IT'S GONNA BE A SCORCHER!!!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:10am
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Quote:Originally posted by becca:
[b]Refused is the key word for me.
[/b]
Would you say "Refusal" and "Strong Resistance" (or "Strong Unwillingness") are [i]very similiar animals[/i]?

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:12am
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Re: 'refuse to take action to decrease the amount of peanutbutter...' (pardon the paraphrase, I don't know how to do that copy thingy.) I think that the bigger issue is education of staff. It seems to me that the problems arise when folks aren't properly trained to RECOGNISE symptoms, and don't RESPOND in an immediate fashion. While part of me would like the whole world to bow down to my daughter (recognizing that she IS a superior being) I would RATHER send her to a school that was EXTREMELY educated -everyone epi trained, ready, willing and able to DO IT and easy EASY access to epi-pens, and an allergy free eating area. (I KNOW avoidance makes common sense) But what good is a peanut butter ban if the staff doesn't recognise the symptoms? or the epi-pen is far away, or under lock and key, or only administered by one or two individuals? Yes I do think that the grade of the child would make a difference. What grade, I don't know, depends on the child. I would consider the hand washing abilities of the kids, and look at how much 'sharing' goes on with classroom supplies, etc. (I don't know, maybe 4th or 5th grade?)BTW, My dd is contact & airborne sensitive. As I said in the beginning, it seems to me that the big (death) problems occur when the school STAFF doesn't RESPOND properly. I would place more of my time and energy into addressing those concerns.
Diane

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:21am
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Quote:Originally posted by MeCash:
[b]Add the PA to his Asperger's Syndrome (high functioning autism) and the horrific way his disorder was dealt with in the public schools and home schooling began too look REALLY good.
[/b]
Horrific? SAY IT ISN'T SO! [i] I would [/i] [b]never[/b] [i] have thought..........[/i]! (Dripping with SARCASM)
Side note: a problem not only found in [i] public schools [/i]
MommaBear

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:26am
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Melrose Mum,
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]For the sake of discussion (oh, goody) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
let's say the school in question satisfies one's requests for accomodation regarding medication.
(Jean, thanks for helping me clarify that [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])
MommaBear
[/b]
let's say the school in question satisfies one's requests for accomodation regarding medication. [b]and education[/b](re: pa, medication, reactions, etc.)
Thank you for helping me clarify that. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 1:42am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]
let's say the school in question satisfies one's requests for accomodation regarding medication. [b]and education[/b] (re: pa, medication, reactions, etc.)
[/b]
Closer, but still no. Mariah is contact sensitive and requires a classroom free of peanut residue.

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 3:26am
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Momma Bear,
For the younger grades, I would want peanut free, but I think that the older kids who know how to wash hands and presumably don't share so many class room supplies, etc. a ban is not neccesary. What age, I don't know, maybe 4th or 5th grade, maybe younger. When I remember the details of recent (and not so recent) tragedies (like Nathan Walters) I realize that for me, education on the symptoms and appropriate responses to those symptoms is THE most important thing. I think that anyone who TRUELY understood the nature of the allergy would agree to a peanut butter ban in the early grades. Does that clear up my position? (which could change you know, I love these boards!)It seems that all of the death by peanut allergy cases have been the result of delayed treatment either because of an inability to recognize the symptoms or the location of the meds or the unwillingness to administer. Sorry to ramble.
Diane

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 5:56am
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MommaBear:
[b] Horrific? SAY IT ISN'T SO! [i] I would [/i] [b]never[/b] [i] have thought..........[/i]! (Dripping with SARCASM)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Yes.. horrific! Alas. PA wasn't the only reason we home school, but it was part of the equation for sure!

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 6:47am
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Quote:Originally posted by Melrose Mum:
[b]Momma Bear,
I think that anyone who TRUELY understood the nature of the allergy would agree to a peanut butter ban in the early grades. Does that clear up my position? (which could change you know, I love these boards!)[/b]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Aside from a "ban", how would one handle PB "sand[i]witches[/i]", provided by the school itself, as part of a "lunch program"?
Grade-wise, (or ability appropriate) would it [b]ever[/b] be appropriate? (considering cross contamination issues, airborne allergy issues, touch sensitivity issues, hygiene enforcement issues (or lack thereof), and the idea that the immune system is possibly a fickle creature and "having PA" may possibly be "like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't" and the [i]possibility[/i] of developing "severe" reactions is always there?
MommaBear
Disclaimer: This post not intended as advice in any manner or form. It is merely the presentation of ideas for the sake of discussion, possible discovery, and the open communication of different opinions. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 6:58am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
I would also not send my child to a school that did not have a full-time school nurse. (Just our comfort zone.)
[/b]
Hmmm...I'm curious about this, Gail. Perhaps it should be in a new thread? I'll post it with my questions.

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 7:56am
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I think that it would be impossible to avoid cross-contamination in 'the world' Sure it would be nice, but that's just not practical. I also choose to cross my bridges as I get to them (and try not to burn them) I guess it all boils down to how the indiviual cases are handled at the school. I think that if the school and I had established a VERY good comfort zone with staff education, epi-readiness,separate eating tables, etc. I would be willing to send my child to that school without the ban IF there was an understanding that if there WAS a problem in the future, the ban would be installed. I'm lucky that I haven't had to get to this point yet, my DD is in a preschool with a ban, the teacher education is VERY HIGH, I trust them completely in avoidance AND treatment (not that they have had to administer the epi) I am sending my daughter to a private school in the fall and I feel that I will not have an official 504 plan (we WILL have things spelled out -in writing- VERY CLEARLY) But I am working with a group of people that WANT my daughter to be safe. I guess I'm lucky I found/can afford a school that makes me feel this way.
Diane

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 8:15am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Aside from a "ban", how would one handle PB "sand[i]witches[/i]", provided by the school itself, as part of a "lunch program"?
[/b]
[i] Aside from a "ban"[/i]
(Still open to input on the original topic, [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 8:20am
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Quote:Originally posted by Melrose Mum:
[b]I think that it would be impossible to avoid cross-contamination in 'the world' [/b]
Is 200 or so (give or take in either direction) PB sand[i]witches[/i] (ooooooooooooo [b][i]Mufasa[/i][/b]----------again, again!!) in a school cafeteria representative of the "real world"?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 11:35am
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Hi MB,
Take a look under "Schools" at River's post: Has anyone considered a lawyer?

Posted on: Tue, 04/15/2003 - 11:52pm
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Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]Hi MB,
Take a look under "Schools" at River's post: Has anyone considered a lawyer?[/b]
Looking. (psssssssssst. what am I looking for?) [i] there is an article you mentioned in a post there that would be helpful to have a link to if one exists. [/i]

Posted on: Wed, 04/16/2003 - 3:34am
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Good morning MB,
I'm laughing because you are a clever bear!
What I have offered in River's topic are the tools I would use w/the school system, & in general.
Now if someone were to ask me how to use them, I could respond by saying something like "learn to play chess" &/or "learn to play poker". The next question could be, "What the @#$% does that mean?" but since we're all civil & respective of one another, it means that w/each game we learn how to win by throwing another person off by using tools/skills like interpreting the opponent's body language, controlling one's own body language, developing thinking skills & for me, the most important is "Strategic Maneuvering".
If there is a stalemate I would interpret it
as another opportunity to try again at a later time, & it also provides me w/time to re-think the entire game. For me, in a manner of speaking "The game never ends"!
It is possible for me to send my dd to any school as long as the "basic" accommodations are in place, everything else can be worked on in w/time. When raising a child we know that we work w/them slowly & patiently toward each stage of development for the simple fact that we cannot overburden them w/a flood of information.
Let's look at strategic manuevering, its basically like potty training...every parent has their own of accomplishing this for the good of their child. However, before one can attempt to teach such a task, a parent has to determine if the timimg is right, then begin to work w/the child before attempting the task by telling him/her the reasons he/she needs to learn it, its benefits & how it is done. Before the task is to be performed, the parent has to be able to recognize when the child is ready or appears to be ready. All that is required from the parent is patience & understanding that they are learning something new that to us is now simple but to them is complex & scary.
When I'm working on a PA issue the first thing that comes to my mind is a quote by President JFK, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." Why? Because to get something, one must be able to provide something like a "suggestion" in how to accomplish a task that could be beneficial for all.
Since I can't have everything, I'm willing to compromise to a degree. If I want control over something I have to think in terms of all people by broadening my thinking to encompass every aspect to the best of my ability. A peanut is a food. The best I could probably do is ask that food not be eaten in hallways, playgrounds, the office, etc. Why? Because it spreads germs & could cause a potential breeding ground for hepatitis & whatever else one can think of. (I think medically you are in a position to develop that statement (reason) better than me). Basically, be able to make suggestions on how to improve things for everyone, not just one's own child...this is just one way that society works.
The thing is that most people know these things, but have not learned how to use them for their own needs.
By the way, everything I have worked for at my dd's school has not come quick & at times, has not come easy. The school administration has been a tremendous help w/helping my dd to be safe; she is now on her 7th year of being reaction free, & is now 9 years old.
One other thing, a "refusal" to me is an "invitation" to change another's perspective!
Send me your e-mail again through my e-mail, I have something for you MB.
Stay safe!
[This message has been edited by LisaMcDowell (edited April 16, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 04/16/2003 - 5:27am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]
Send me your e-mail again through my e-mail, I have something for you MB.
[/b]
LOL.
Interesting way to ask [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
How did the GS "pins" come out?
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 07, 2007).]

Posted on: Wed, 04/16/2003 - 6:02am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]
Now if someone were to ask me how to use them, I could respond by saying something like "learn to play chess" &/or "learn to play poker". The next question could be, "What the @#$% does that mean?" but since we're all civil & respective of one another, it means that w/each game we learn how to win by throwing another person off by using tools/skills like interpreting the opponent's body language, controlling one's own body language, developing thinking skills & for me, the most important is "Strategic Maneuvering".
[/b]
Some "skills" [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] I never aquired, nor was born with. (Thank you, God) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
All though I look closely at [i]motive[/i] and [i]rationale[/i], I also place a high value on fact, research, and perspective aquired from multidisciplinary collaberation. My particular brand of Resourcefulness is not dependent on "Manuvering". Not at all. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I also have quite a frightening (to some) [b]intuitive[/b] sense, I *personally* have found waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more reliable than body language, poker, or political manuvers. This and placing a high value on ethical behaviors.
[i]Personal Plug here:[/i] All things considered, you may begin to see the value I place also in Policy, Protocol, and Procedure. In a sense, [b]It levels the playing field.[/b]............ so to speak.
Add it all up, and voila', ya got yourself a batch of:
Critical Thinking Skills, [i]perhaps?[/i]
A quote found in this link:
[url="http://web.odu.edu/webroot/orgs/hs/nurs/nursing.nsf/pages/401_fa99_def"]http://web.odu.edu/webroot/orgs/hs/nurs/nursing.nsf/pages/401_fa99_def[/url]
"Critical thinking is a purposeful, reflective and goal directed activity that aims to make judgments based on evidence rather than conjecture. It is based on the principles of science and the scientific method. Critical thinking is a reasoned, interactive process that requires the development of strategies that maximize human potential. (Old Dominion University, School of Nursing faculty minutes, 1997)"
lololololololololololol.
Is it any wonder I find great satisfaction in my particular field of interest? (Nursing)
[url="http://www.wooster.edu/writing_center/criticalthinking.html"]http://www.wooster.edu/writing_center/criticalthinking.html[/url]
[url="http://www.ericfacility.net/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed385606.html"]http://www.ericfacility.net/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed385606.html[/url]
LisaM, I look forward to your posts and find [b]all[/b] views to be a valuable piece of the puzzle. For what my opinion is worth...............
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the links in this post. This post not intended as advice in any manner or form. It is merely the expression of my own *individual* charm, or lack thereof. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 12:56am
LisaMcDowell's picture
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Hi MB,
Sorry but I'll have to answer you next week, I have go getter happy campers waiting on me to hit the highway! Oh boy, 5 hours of driving & singing...just what I want to start off with!
Have a good one!

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 2:06am
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"ninety-nine bottles of beer on the wall..."
Have fun Lisa! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
OOPS! Forgot to answer the thread question!! (I was too busy living vicariously through Lisa's vacation, I guess!)
NO, absolutely NOT. IMO, reducing risks is a must- anyone who refuses to even try is not getting it. As for the real world, I'll take my alternate reality every time! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
DD is extraordinarily sensitive, however... contact and aerosol with very few exposures to get there... and has anaphylaxis history.
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited April 17, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 3:19am
e-mom's picture
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Dawn,
How can the preschool legally keep you from handing out the letters to the other parents as you arrive at school. I don't believe legally they can do that!!
MommaBear,
I haven't read all the posts just yet (I need to make lunch for the boys [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]) but I would do everything in my power to change the schools attitude, i.e., by showing them statistics, giving them all the facts--like in a presentation, have a meeting with the school board. If all else fails, I would check into a lawyer to get a better understanding of discrimination and violating my rights.
However, I guess, if there is another school that would be easier to "train" and wouldn't be so stubborn then I would go that route.
At the very least, I would definitely expect that his class be peanut-free.
When our children are at school, any school, isn't there a code of ethics clause for schools and teachers saying that they have to protect the children.
Any teachers out there, please let me know.
[This message has been edited by e-mom (edited April 17, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 3:53am
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Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]
MommaBear,
I haven't read all the posts just yet (I need to make lunch for the boys [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]) but I would do everything in my power to change the schools attitude, i.e., by showing them statistics, giving them all the facts--like in a presentation, have a meeting with the school board. If all else fails, I would check into a lawyer to get a better understanding of discrimination and violating my rights.
However, I guess, if there is another school that would be easier to "train" and wouldn't be so stubborn then I would go that route.
At the very least, I would definitely expect that his class be peanut-free.[/b]
By golly, there's not a thing you mentioned we didn't try. Including a different "in-district" public school, which they flat-out refused. The private school route failed us as well. We are currently researching legal recourse, at a minimum out of ethical principals. You would not believe how hard it is to come up with a retainer AND find someone who has some primitive knowledge of the situation. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Last lawyer we contacted (during the situation) suggested that the school had endless sums of money and we did not. Although he stated he would not be averse to accepting what money we could provide for services rendered. lol. Most definitely, I could appreciate your suggestions. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I actually got physically ill from the situation (at the public school) and quit before we pursued any action with the Office of Civil Rights. If they could have remedied the situation, I have no idea. Of course, we didn't care for the idea of sending our son to an institution that would have had [i] to be forced [/i] to take appropriate actions. Actually, we found it completely [i]unpalatable.[/i] Maybe it's just me. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Currently, we have other "remedies" in mind. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Who says the school can only meet our child's needs [i]on their premises[/i]? I wonder................
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
P.S.
Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]
When our children are at school, any school, isn't there a code of ethics clause for schools and teachers saying that they have to protect the children.
Any teachers out there, please let me know.
[/b]
I alluded to this issue in another thread. A while back. Glad to see I'm not the only one who this occurred to. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited April 17, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 4:06am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Dawn:
[b]
I also asked permission for me to send a letter to the parents regarding my son's allergy -not asking them to [i]not[/i] send pb, just asking them to avoid it if possible and if not possible, to understand that my child would not be able to sit next to their's if pb was brought in.
Permission denied.
[/b]
My goodness, sounds completely reasonable! I agree w/ e-mom's take on this. You don't need anyone's permission for mailing something US mail. (Tho too late now, I realize, since you choose not to send your son to this school. I can see how it would be better for the school to be deliver their own message on PA anyway...)
Plus, as another mom at my school sometimes points out to me when discussing my PA dilemas, "Sometimes it is easier to beg for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission." She is a PTA officer...
I'm completely for cooperating with the school, but wouldn't want them to believe they can dictate beyond their jurisdiction...

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 7:12am
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Gail and e-mom, I do agree with you about having the right to send out a letter if I chose to. However, I needed a list of names, since we'd never been there, only heard good things about them (although now I'm hearing a few not-so-nice stories, the more people I get to know here!) As they have several programs, I would not be able to tell which parents were parents of my son's classmates unless I was in the room.
But more importantly, to me, I did not feel that my son would be safe in their care. If they are not willing to let me open the channels of communication about something so important, I can't imagine that they would be very "open" in general. And that is crucial to me. I know they would have benefitted from some education, but they were very resistant to my offers of help. I could have fought with them and tried to beat them into understanding, but really, I'm not up for that kind of fight right now. It's preschool and he doesn't [i]have[/i] to go.
So you're right, but personally, my legal rights mean diddly squat to me if I have a child who died because of a reaction while I tried to educate his reluctant school. Know what I mean?

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 7:53am
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i just posted this long reply-----ugh!!!!
Something happened and it deleted itself!!!!
I'll reply again later.
[This message has been edited by e-mom (edited April 17, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 8:08am
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Mir
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I haven't read here much recently and haven't posted in forever... but I'll hop into the fray on this one. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
I think attitude is everything. But let me preface that with the disclaimer that I am NOT a believer in making classrooms peanut-free. There is peanut butter in the world and my PA son is going to have to figure out how to manuever amongst it; so just know that I approach this (and everything else!) from the point of view of education/protocol rather than banning as a solution.
The daycare that my son attends has been MARVELOUS with allergy issues for both my son and other kids. I am very confident of his safety there. They keep his epis in the classroom, are happy to keep separate snacks for him, and check every lunchbox and seat him with a group of peanut-free lunches each day. DS is contact sensitive and has had only ONE reaction at daycare in two years (and even that was not from contact, but from a cross-contaminated product, alas). How is he surviving a group of 2- and 3-year-olds as a contact sensitive PA where there is peanut butter every day? Strict protocol. When the kids sit down for lunch, they do not get up until a staff member has cleaned them off. Tables are disinfected after every snack and meal. Simple, and easy, if you have the cooperation of the staff (which, thankfully, I do).
I also believe that kids are never too young to be educated, and my son--at not quite 3.5--is well aware of his allergy and precautions he must take. The staff at the daycare proudly report to me incidents like the other day, where they found a packet of cheese-n-crackers in someone's lunch and thought it was peanut butter, and at the mere mention of peanut butter, DS picked up his lunch and left the table until they told him it was safe (LOL).
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. The elementary school that my son will attend has been similarly accommodating for a friend's PA son, and again, I feel comfortable because of the attitude--the willingness to be educated, to make special arrangements, and quite frankly, just being taken seriously. One of the problems I see with asking for a peanut-free environment is that it often causes one to be perceived as a fanatic, and communication breaks down right away. (Again, this is just my view. My son isn't airborne sensitive and I know for some that a peanut-free environment is a necessity.)
As long as there is a protocol in place for food consumption, I'm pretty easy, I think. It's places where kids are allowed to eat whatever they want WHEREver they want that freak me out. Having kids properly segregated and ensuring good clean-up after is pretty much what I look for.
(Hmmm, I see my absence from here hasn't made me any less long-winded....) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Miriam

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 8:12am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Dawn:
[b]
So you're right, but personally, my legal rights mean diddly squat to me if I have a child who died because of a reaction while I tried to educate his reluctant school. Know what I mean?[/b]
I completely know what you mean. In fact, we sold our house and moved into another school district (before DD even started kindergarten) for this exact reason.
I think that, unfortunately, if it gets to the *legalities* of protecting your child that...well, in many ways you've already lost.
It's certainly a diplomatic skill to be able to show an uncooperative school why they really do *want* to cooperate because it is in [i] their own [/i] best interest to do so. The public school we were initially districted for was more reluctant than I could handle... so we decided it wasn't worth the fight.
Obviously the mailing was symbolic of a much bigger issue. Are you happy with the school choice you made?
Gail
P.S. emom-- Uh! I HATE when that happens!
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited April 17, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 8:18am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
I think that, unfortunately, if it gets to the *legalities* of protecting your child that...well, in many ways you've already lost.
[/b]
would you say so in *my son's* case? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 8:21am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Mir:
[b] How is he surviving a group of 2- and 3-year-olds as a contact sensitive PA where there is peanut butter every day? Strict protocol. [/b]
I don't know whether to dance around the fire or offer up a moment of silence!!!!!
Yippie ti yie yaaaaaaaaa!

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 8:34am
Gail W's picture
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Gosh, I don't know, MamaBear. I guess it would depend on what you want... do you want your son to return to the public school? That would be pretty tough one, don't you think? I don't know if I could send my child back under those (hostile) circumstances. Would you ever truly trust them? (I don't always agree with my school and we have some conflicts, but I do trust that they want what is best for her. I couldn't send Mariah there if I didn't.)
Are you happy home-schooling? Do you want to continue? It seems from your posts that you are enjoying it... If you are thinking about pursuing the possibility of the school district funding your home-schooling, well that's a legal avenue that may allow you to "win" in that you would get what you really want.
Just my thoughts...
Gail

Posted on: Thu, 04/17/2003 - 10:27am
e-mom's picture
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Joined: 04/23/2000 - 09:00

Ok, let's try this again.
MommaBear,
I, obviously, knew that you would have completely exhausted all your options but you asked what I would do and, well, that's what I would do. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] You silly bear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
No, I agree with you on not wanting to send him to a school that was "forced" to take the appropriate actions.
Curious as to what other remedies you may have. Hmmmmmmm, what are you thinking?
I just spoke with a friend of mine who use to teach in Chicago. She said that she did not have any type of ethics to protect other than to report any type of abuse.
Further discussion and we had agreed that you are being discriminated against.
MB, you should move up by me. I just found out today at my ds soccer practice (from gabbing with the other moms) that our school district has a policy in place for PA. If a child has PA, their teacher will send a letter home on the first day of school TELLING the parents not to bring anything to school with peanuts and that anything with peanuts are not allowed in class (i.e., peanut butter sandwiches). They are very strict with this as they take PA seriously.
I'm not sure if this includes "may contain" but right now I'm thrilled with this news.
Hey, there is a house across the street from me for sale. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Dawn, the preschool where my ds attends gives a list of all names, address, phone number of all children attending the school as well as their parents names. (a list like this would have been useful for you [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img])
I'm glad you made the decision not to send your ds there. The school does not seem to be very open at all. I'm sure there is another preschool for you that will fit your needs. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
(edited for a typo)(2nd typo)
Welcome back Miriam!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by e-mom (edited April 18, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by e-mom (edited April 18, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 04/18/2003 - 12:18am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Gail,
We are [i]relieved[/i] homeschooling. We are [i]encouraged[/i] homeschooling. We are [i]pleasantly surprised [/i] homeschooling. Homeschooling is a [b]wonderful [/b] option. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. We weren't given an option. At least from a moral-ethical point of view.
"Do you want to continue homeschooling?"
Actually, what we do at home is very similiar to what we did when he was [i]enrolled[/i] in a school system. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] We have [i]always[/i] supplemented. Now, we are just more structured and thorough. Now, we have added extracurricular activity. (More quality time----a BONUS. Now, we have an official classroom (more near an entire school---lololol).
All aside, look at the "big picture". Is everyone, willing, able (financially and physically), and ready to make lemonaide in such a situation? In no way to I diminish parents who would not want to homeschool. It is a [i]choice[/i], or at least [i]should[/i] be. Like a mother working outside the home. (NOW THERE IS A LOADED STATEMENT) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
The question remains: Will my [i]son[/i] be content as time passes? (Gosh, I would have [i]loved[/i] homeschooling as a child. And a young teen--------YA THINK? hehe)
I'm thinking, past 5th and 6th grade. In high school, there are many course options and activities. I am, in no way, prepared to offer ALL of them. (Surprise, surprise [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]) I probably should have similiar concerns about 7th and 8th grade.
I have mentioned that my son qualifies for certain services in the public school system. Currently, I pay privately for [i]some[/i] that are available outside the public school. [i]Some.[/i]
I have spoke with parents who, when the school system was "unable" to meet their children's specific [b]educational[/b] needs, found other ways for the system to meet such. Ie: I may not be thinking meeting them in a school building as the public school system indicated they would be "unable" to make several accomodations I consider [b]essential[/b] to effective management of PA. [b]As do some other professional sources.[/b]
Given our (my husband and myself) understanding of the situation at hand, we believe their particular offers of "accomodation" (oh, please) to be insufficient and misguided. (I think I am trying to be nice [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )
Were we [i]intentionally[/i] given situations that would be deemed unacceptable to us? (As parents, a nurse, and paramedic?)
Now, connect this with PA (oh, heck, Asthma too). Quite a statement to be made? I find such statements to be [i]irresistable[/i].
Currently, I *feel* the statement [b](in my family's situation)[/b] is: "Make it so miserable for the parents, they will [i]beg for us to get out of their business." [/i]
We (my husband and I) would like to see our perception of this statement changed, even if we don't return to the system. Ever. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
From a professional standpoint, and a parental one.
e-mom,
you stated (in quotes):
"I, obviously, knew that you would have completely exhausted all your options but you asked what I would do and, well, that's what I would do. You silly bear"
[b]It's the wolvarine in me.[/b]
"No, I agree with you on not wanting to send him to a school that was "forced" to take the appropriate actions."
[b]Is it possible that many loving, informed, and concerned parents would agree?[/b]
"Curious as to what other remedies you may have. Hmmmmmmm, what are you thinking?"
[b]Are you really? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img][/b]
"I just spoke with a friend of mine who use to teach in Chicago. She said that she did not have any type of ethics to protect other than to report any type of abuse."
[b]Were you as surprised as I was????[/b]
"Further discussion and we had agreed that you are being discriminated against."
[b]My son, specifically. Although we did wonde if our professions had anything to do with it. [/b]
"MB, you should move up by me. I just found out today at my ds soccer practice (from gabbing with the other moms) that our school district has a policy in place for PA. If a child has PA, their teacher will send a letter home on the first day of school TELLING the parents not to bring anything to school with peanuts and that anything with peanuts are not allowed in class (i.e., peanut butter sandwiches). They are very strict with this as they take PA seriously."
[b]Sometimes, Avalanches are good things. (Yelling over the ledge to the town below: "POLIIIIIIIIIICY") [/b]
"I'm not sure if this includes "may contain" but right now I'm thrilled with this news."
[b]So am I![/b]
"Hey, there is a house across the street from me for sale."
[b] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Maybe Chris should start a "Real-Estate" board. lolololololol.[/b]
MotherBear
Disclaimer: This post not intended as advice in any manner or form. Just my own *personal* experiences in a rambling form.
PS:
Gail and e-mom, I so wanted to use more smilies, but I exceeded the limit more than once. (Big grinning smiley---in bold)
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited April 18, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 04/25/2003 - 6:43pm
LisaMcDowell's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2002 - 09:00

Hi Momma Bear,
The GS pin came out great...it was the most sought after! I was going to send you a picture of it, but I don't know where in the ffff..forest I put it!
MB, I've given alot of thought to your topic & really truly I don't know how to word this so it won't sound offensive, so please forgive me if I unintentionally hurt you.
The word "accommodation" is not a concrete word or a command word; it does not require a person &/or institution to perform a task(s). They merely have to be "willing" to listen(?), to understand(?), to think(?), etc.
I believe the intended purpose of its usage is for diplomatic negotiations conducive to both the parent & the school.
A parent generally thinks of "only" one's own child. A principal thinks in terms of "all" children, & how what is being presented will be beneficial for everyone. FAAN encourages the use of this type of diplomacy, & I strongly support it due to its effectiveness. This is how to work the "school system".
The only problem now MB, is how to work the issue to make it beneficial for all kids at your child's school. *No food outside of designated areas to prevent _______(fill in the blank)(to prevent childhood diseases).
MB, I know how difficult it must have been for you to accept what was being said by the lawyer & the person at the Civil Rights Office. I know it hurts. I just wish there was something I could say to make it easier.
God is w/you & you are in my prayers.
Lisa

Posted on: Sat, 04/26/2003 - 12:23am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]Hi Momma Bear,
The GS pin came out great...it was the most sought after! I was going to send you a picture of it, but I don't know where in the ffff..forest I put it!
MB, I've given alot of thought to your topic & really truly I don't know how to word this so it won't sound offensive, so please forgive me if I unintentionally hurt you.
The word "accommodation" is not a concrete word or a command word; it does not require a person &/or institution to perform a task(s). They merely have to be "willing" to listen(?), to understand(?), to think(?), etc.
I believe the intended purpose of its usage is for diplomatic negotiations conducive to both the parent & the school.
A parent generally thinks of "only" one's own child. A principal thinks in terms of "all" children, & how what is being presented will be beneficial for everyone. FAAN encourages the use of this type of diplomacy, & I strongly support it due to its effectiveness. This is how to work the "school system".
The only problem now MB, is how to work the issue to make it beneficial for all kids at your child's school. *No food outside of designated areas to prevent _______(fill in the blank)(to prevent childhood diseases).
MB, I know how difficult it must have been for you to accept what was being said by the lawyer & the person at the Civil Rights Office. I know it hurts. I just wish there was something I could say to make it easier.
God is w/you & you are in my prayers.
Lisa
[/b]

Posted on: Sat, 04/26/2003 - 12:53am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]
The word "accommodation" is not a concrete word or a command word; it does not require a person &/or institution to perform a task(s). They merely have to be "willing" to listen(?), to understand(?), to think(?), etc.
[/b]
"Given our (my husband and myself) understanding of the situation at hand, we believe their particular offers of "accomodation" (oh, please) to be insufficient and misguided. (I think I am trying to be nice )"
Apparently, you missed the "quotes"?
ps........
Would one need "multidisciplinary input" to determine "Reasonable Accommodation"? Does the determination of such by the formerly described determine effacy and obligation?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Disclaimer: This post not intended as advice any manner or form.

Posted on: Sat, 04/26/2003 - 1:18am
LisaMcDowell's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2002 - 09:00

Hi MB,
The offers of accommodation made by the school are the tools you have to work with period.
Let me ask you this, "How did your PA husband receive an education?"
[This message has been edited by LisaMcDowell (edited April 26, 2003).]

Posted on: Sat, 04/26/2003 - 1:25am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]
MB, I know how difficult it must have been for you to accept what was being said by the lawyer & the person at the Civil Rights Office. I know it hurts. I just wish there was something I could say to make it easier.
[/b]
Exactly [b]what[/b] was said, Lisa?? LOLOL. As I have not discussed this with you [i]personally[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
The "lawyer" cracked jokes about PA. We were not about to pay him hourly to discuss the situation past the initial consultation fee.
The Office of Civil Rights was [i]encouraging[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
PS.......... I am neither insured, certified, nor employed by the district to "educate" those employed by the district in the manner you describe. Would such take "multidisciplinary" collaberation to be effective??
Would I need "permission" from the district to do so on their premises?? I *personally* would need policy, protocol, and procedure developed by those with appropriate credentialling to do the same. Adopted formally by the district. I *personally* would need formal contract of employment with i's dotted and t's crossed. Possibly with professional liability insurance provided by employer? Maybe it is just me? (Moot Point since I am not attracted in the slightest to such a position. I am quite content with the current application of education. And what [i] compensation[/i] is provided.)
Quite possibly I would need a physical (with TB screening?), proof of immunizations, background check, copies of my licensure, certifications, and employment history, references, or even a [i]psychological[/i] evaluation. I might even have to provide proof of certain continuing education credits. LOLOLOLOL
[i]Do you think a position would benefit only PA children?[/i]
Our (my family) main discomfort was not with food. Surprise, Surprise. It was with what we viewed as rusted, weak links in our son's life line. Or missing links entirely. Maybe it was just clear to trained eyes and minds. But, [b]there[/b] is the value of "multidisciplinary" collaberation?
Do you see the value in the ability to identify problems within a particular system, integrate "multidisciplinary" talent, and continually update and educate in order to provide solutions to such problems (of course, through applicable and appropriate channels within the applicable and appropriate legal parameters).............possibly with the assist of others who are formally and professionally licensed and [i]qualified[/i] to do so on that "multidisciplinary" team? Possibly through updating Policy, Procedure, and Protocol?
[i]Do you think such only benefits a pa child?[/i]
a diabetic child?
an Asthmatic child?
etc?
IE: Who doesn't see [b]The Big Picture[/b] here?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
edit to correct italics and add disclaimer [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Disclaimer: This post not intended as advice in any manner or form.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited April 26, 2003).]

Posted on: Sat, 04/26/2003 - 1:36am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by LisaMcDowell:
[b]Hi MB,
The offers of accommodation made by the school are the tools you have to work with period.
Let me ask you this, "How did your PA husband receive an education?"
[This message has been edited by LisaMcDowell (edited April 26, 2003).][/b]
At what point in time? LOLOLOLOLOL
PS............ He is no longer "symptomatic". (his statement and observation). Whether he will become "symptomatic" again is up for debate.
Disclaimer: This post not intended as advice in any manner or form.

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