When a 504 is violated.... what do you do?

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 6:16am
gvmom's picture
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At the moment, we are involved in a mess with our school. I've been talking about it in another thread, and due to a question asked of me by Mommabear, I thought I'd bring the discussion here. For some back info though, we have experienced repeated violations at our son's school with respect to his 504. The last one occurred on Valentine's day. As in the past, we wrote an email to the Principal to inform her of it, with the intent to follow up with her in person to schedule a meeting, or figure out a resolution. What we have done in the past, when a violation occurs, is to keep our son home from school until we have made contact with & talked to the Principal. This time however, DH was informed, when he ran into her at the office, that we were being referred over to her boss of sorts. (who we think is an Ombudsman for the district). Anyway, within the bit of the conversation she and DH had, it came up that this person she is referring us to told her that it was illegal for us to keep our DS out of school. Our principal though did say to DH that we as parents had to do what we felt we needed to -- but now I am concerned about being turned over to someone who has that stance.

Clearly, due to the nature of the timing of all of this (the weekend), we are left to much speculation since this person we are referred to was supposed to contact us (and hasn't). We don't know the entirety of what has gone on with respect to communications between the teacher, the principal or this other person.

The main thing is though, at this moment for me, has to do with legal problems revolving around keeping our son home from school due to this latest violation. Hence the question posed to me by Mommabear:

[b]I mean, define "legally". You know, the "put up or shut up" part of it. How would anyone intend to differentiate between "legally" keeping your child home, and "illegally" keeping him home? [/b]

So, here is my attempt at trying to figure out what that could mean for us. That excused absences are defined as follows in code 48205:

[b]48205. (a) Notwithstanding Section 48200, a pupil shall be excused
from school when the absence is:
(1) Due to his or her illness.
(2) Due to quarantine under the direction of a county or city
health officer.
(3) For the purpose of having medical, dental, optometrical, or
chiropractic services rendered.
(4) For the purpose of attending the funeral services of a member
of his or her immediate family, so long as the absence is not more
than one day if the service is conducted in California and not more
than three days if the service is conducted outside California.
(5) For the purpose of jury duty in the manner provided for by
law.
(6) Due to the illness or medical appointment during school hours
of a child of whom the pupil is the custodial parent.
(7) For justifiable personal reasons, including, but not limited
to, an appearance in court, attendance at a funeral service,
observance of a holiday or ceremony of his or her religion,
attendance at religious retreats, or attendance at an employment
conference, when the pupil's absence has been requested in writing by
the parent or guardian and approved by the principal or a designated
representative pursuant to uniform standards established by the
governing board.
(8) For the purpose of serving as a member of a precinct board for
an election pursuant to Section 12302 of the Elections Code.
(b) A pupil absent from school under this section shall be allowed
to complete all assignments and tests missed during the absence that
can be reasonably provided and, upon satisfactory completion within
a reasonable period of time, shall be given full credit therefor.
The teacher of any class from which a pupil is absent shall determine
the tests and assignments shall be reasonably equivalent to, but not
necessarily identical to, the tests and assignments that the pupil
missed during the absence.
(c) For purposes of this section, attendance at religious retreats
shall not exceed four hours per semester.
(d) Absences pursuant to this section are deemed to be absences in
computing average daily attendance and shall not generate state
apportionment payments.
(e) "Immediate family," as used in this section, has the same
meaning as that set forth in Section 45194, except that references
therein to "employee" shall be deemed to be references to "pupil."[/b]

To that end, our keeping him home for a 504 violation isn't on that list. It would be rendered unexcused. And that would be considered truant, with the following implication:

[b]48260. (a) Any pupil subject to compulsory full-time education or
to compulsory continuation education who is absent from school
without valid excuse three full days in one school year or tardy or
absent for more than any 30-minute period during the schoolday
without a valid excuse on three occasions in one school year, or any
combination thereof, is a truant and shall be reported to the
attendance supervisor or to the superintendent of the school
district.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), it is the intent of the
Legislature that school districts shall not change the method of
attendance accounting provided for in existing law and shall not be
required to employ period-by-period attendance accounting.

48260.5. Upon a pupil's initial classification as a truant, the
school district shall notify the pupil's parent or guardian, by
first-class mail or other reasonable means, of the following:
(a) That the pupil is truant.
(b) That the parent or guardian is obligated to compel the
attendance of the pupil at school.
(c) That parents or guardians who fail to meet this obligation may
be guilty of an infraction and subject to prosecution pursuant to
Article 6 (commencing with Section 48290) of Chapter 2 of Part 27.
(d) That alternative educational programs are available in the
district.
(e) That the parent or guardian has the right to meet with
appropriate school personnel to discuss solutions to the pupil's
truancy.
(f) That the pupil may be subject to prosecution under Section
48264.
(g) That the pupil may be subject to suspension, restriction, or
delay of the pupil's driving privilege pursuant to Section 13202.7 of
the Vehicle Code.
(h) That it is recommended that the parent or guardian accompany
the pupil to school and attend classes with the pupil for one day.[/b]

We don't believe that our principal would turn us in as truant, but, we don't know what this other person will do. I can't find something that seems to give us the legal latitude to keep him home when his 504 is violated.

Any ideas? I mean, what do the rest of you do when your 504's are violated? Do you keep your children home? On this latest violation, it was the teacher handing out candy to be used on Valentine's day as a manipulative for math instruction that day. In his 504 food isn't to be used at all as a part of the classroom instruction material. Additionally, we weren't told that it was going to be used, we weren't even given the chance to look at packaging even -- I still don't know what brand the candy was.

Anyway, thank you for reading this far. DH and I are feeling pretty beat down by all of this, and I still am weepy about the entirety of the situation (cumulatively to this point). I don't know what we will do if we will have to also fight about truancy.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 6:49am
anonymous's picture
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Gosh, gvmom, I had no idea! I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.
I'm also sorry I don't have an answer for you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
I'm sure someone here will be of help. If by chance I find out anything helpful, I'll post it. Hang in there.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 7:07am
anonymous's picture
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Perhaps under keeping your child out for "justifiable personal reasons" (48205 #7) you could write a letter to the principal and superintendent and give a copy to whoever this other person is, and state that until whatever violation of your 504 plan is resolved and a plan of correction developed, that your child is at an increased risk of a "life threatening" reaction.
Justifiable in my book for keeping a kid out of school. Perhaps your allergist could back you up with a medical excuse saying that until the 504 plan is followed as written in regards to food manipulatives in school, that it is not safe for your child to attend.
Let them take an endangerment issue to their lawyers to try to force you to put your child in school. They won't want the liability.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 7:08am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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What a bummer. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
I would [i]think[/i] that even if you [i]were[/i] turned in as 'truant' that you could appeal that to someone else...
and I can't imagine that you wouldn't win that appeal if you had your physician on-board w/r to a 504 issue that was "being resolved" during the absence.
Is this making sense? The reason I think this is that the law is decidedly vague on that matter for kids who have any sort of medically related reason for not attending school... even for long periods of time, such as recovery from a serious illness or to avoid illness during chemo, or even to avoid illness in an immunocompromised family member... the list goes on and on. Politically speaking, it would be AWFUL for the district to be publicly 'called out' for such a Draconian measure as calling such a child "truant."
I would think that requesting work from the teacher/principal should be sufficient to show "good faith" on your family's part...
and I cannot [i]FATHOM[/i] why any school would [i]want[/i] to demand that they assume liability for your child during school hours when such a clear PROBLEM RELATED TO HIS SAFETY exists, unresolved.
Seems to me you're doing them a HUGE legal favor, actually... reducing their liability until it is worked out.
These are all things I would gently point out-- first to the district, and later, if need be, to any reporter who would talk to me about my "truant" child.
{{hugs}} I am soooo sorry.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 7:16am
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Dd`s 504 was violated quite a bit in 4th grade and I never kept her home. On days when I truly felt she was not safe in school, I stayed at school with her. That way she does not have to miss school. I feel that missing school is more disruptive to the child than the parent staying with the child. I felt that my responsibility was to do what was in dd`s best interest and I felt that it was in her best interest to be able to attend school. Each time the violation was what I considered to be significant, I wrote a letter (not email) to the principal and 504 coordinator. I don`t recall which person it was addressed to and which one I cc`d. I am not sure if I cc`d the teacher also. I started each letter with "Dear Mr./Mrs.______, I wanted to let you know that on ________ (date), dd`s 504 was violated." Then I would go into detail about the violation and how it affected her safety. When we had the worst one (another child eating a pb sandwich at dd`s desk in a food free room, while dd had to sit outside), I had the allergist write a letter also. I am sure they were thinking lawsuit. I found that they took the letters very seriously. I think a letter serves as more official documentation than an email. I think if you keep your ds home it clouds the picture. You want the whole focus to be on the allergies and not whether he is or is not truant.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 7:47am
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I don't know if this will help, but...
[url="http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html"]http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html[/url]

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 7:58am
gvmom's picture
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Thanks guys. My brain is just so fried with all of this. I have times, like this morning, when I sat and went through the education code looking to see what might apply. Then I have times when I could just cry (and do) because of what this really boils down to -- junk food being more important that the life of my child. We already have to teach them about death at such a young age, but to then basically having to teach them that people would pick a cupcake or piece of candy rather than them can be just hard some days. And I really think that this last thing kind of devastated me because it was really big to us -- even though I'm sure it will be viewed as petty to everyone else involved.
And I do think on Tuesday we will request homework. I'm not quite sure how that will go. What the principal will do. Tuesday will be his third day out of school. And really, that is all we seem to be able to do -- and yes, also kind of with respect to liability for the school too, in addition to our own concern for not being given knowledge of food being handed over to our son.
About missing school & going with -- I have another child who is allergic to eggs & has horrible eczema. I think it could make for an good scene to be sitting there with him in the hallway (or classroom) with me, but again, I also have his safety to think about too. If I can't get them to do what is necessary for my son with a 504, I know I'll get nothing while I'm a visual & physical thorn with my other son.
And I do agree with the documentation. We have a combination of emails and letters. Usually the initial contact is via email, with a letter follow up to summarize whatever meeting or resolution we've all come to.
In the end, I'm just not sure why the principal did what she did. I really don't understand what is going on with the teacher. And, how am I supposed to trust that they'll do what they have to do in an emergency situation with my DS if they won't in any other situation? And how is it we end up being wrong for keeping our son out of a potentially dangerous situation, instead of the school being wrong for creating it?
To me, they don't deserve the $36 dollars for my son if they jeopardize his safety.
Part of all of this too, is that I'm feeling like DH & I are getting pushed toward a line that he and I have talked about with regard to how far we would take things. How much we would fight. Legally where we would go, what would cause us to do homebound instruction or homeschooling.
And again, it boils down to people choosing food over a child. I just don't get it.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 8:41am
chanda4's picture
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Since the allergist wrote the letter to instill the 504...could he/she also wirte a letter stating if the 504 is violated, you have medical resoning for keeping your child at home, until the violation is corrected?? Medical documentation might be a way around this.
What about that gal, Rhonda...would she have any suggestions about this type of situation? How about the ADA(would they have info stating the school could not consider a diabled child(with a 504) to be under these school excused-absent rules?? There has to be something to protect a diabled child from being given unexcused absences when it's clearly unsafe for them to attend....
I really have no experience, but I am just thinking out loud here...wish I knew more to help. Good luck, HUGS
------------------
Chanda(mother of 4)
Sidney-8 (beef and chocolate, grasses, molds, weeds, guinea pig & asthma)
Jake-6 (peanut, all tree nuts, eggs, trees, grasses, weeds, molds, cats, dogs, guinea pig & eczema & asthma)
Carson-3 1/2 (milk, soy, egg, beef and pork, cats, dog, guinea pig)
Savannah-1 (milk and egg)

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 10:16am
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Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]To me, they don't deserve the $36 dollars for my son if they jeopardize his safety.
[/b]
Now that you mention it, it did strike me from your other posts that maybe this was the bigger reason that you are keeping him home. After all, they are not going to get away with handing either one of your kids something they are allergic to with you sitting there in the classroom with them. When the teacher let another child eat a pb sandwich at dd`s desk, I cleaned the table myself during class. I am sure it was disruptive, but it really drove home the point that I was not trying to be difficult, I was that worried about dd`s safety. It would make same point if you inconvenienced yourself by sitting there all day with your other ds. In thinking about it, I`m sure they did not want me there, felt that they were under scrutiny, and made sure to fix things real fast (if for no other reason than to not have me sitting there---I am sure the teacher did not enjoy having me there!). It drives home the point that this is not about a boycott of school but rather about safety.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 10:40am
gvmom's picture
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[b]Now that you mention it, it did strike me from your other posts that maybe this was the bigger reason that you are keeping him home. After all, they are not going to get away with handing either one of your kids something they are allergic to with you sitting there in the classroom with them. When the teacher let another child eat a pb sandwich at dd`s desk, I cleaned the table myself during class. I am sure it was disruptive, but it really drove home the point that I was not trying to be difficult, I was that worried about dd`s safety. It would make same point if you inconvenienced yourself by sitting there all day with your other ds. In thinking about it, I`m sure they did not want me there, felt that they were under scrutiny, and made sure to fix things real fast (if for no other reason than to not have me sitting there---I am sure the teacher did not enjoy having me there!). It drives home the point that this is not about a boycott of school but rather about safety. [/b]
In our school, I know that if I sat there with my other son it would be viewed as my trying to be disruptive. It would be viewed as trying to make a statement. I know that it wouldn't be viewed as my concern for my son's safety. And really, they also would let me do it, willingly -- even see it as my right as a parent to sit in that classroom -- regardless of the food allergy. Then they could abdicate any responsibility. They would willingly let me in the classroom, let me clean up, let me be the one turning away homebaked goods at the classroom door, for as long as I wanted -- then they wouldn't be the bad guy. The teacher wouldn't have to be and neither would the principal. That is how it is viewed. Haven't I said my last name was "Killjoy"?
I absolutely put it in terms of that money because that is how everything is put to us. About everything at the school. All the events are about raising money. If your child is sick, we lose money. If your child wants to participate in certain PTA school events they have to raise a certain minimum amount of money. The hand is out constantly. And I do think that since they view my child as having a dollar sign in the middle of his forehead they could at least care if he dies in the classroom or not. I don't feel as though they care one wit about him except that he represents $36 dollars a day. That maybe they will be desperate enough to get that $36 dollars and stop allowing violations -- easily prevented ones -- from occurring.
And I will tell you that I am mad. For me it is about my son's life. I am mad at them that I spend every day worried about him dying at that school. We spent so much time working with that school. We have sacrificed so much -- and will continue to willingly for the safety of our children. And really we have no recourse, no safeguard if they violate the 504. To me, keeping my son home serves 2 purposes:
1. He is safe.
2. They don't benefit while they jeopardize his life.

Posted on: Sat, 02/17/2007 - 11:01am
mia1964's picture
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Go to [url="http://www.ed.gov"]www.ed.gov[/url] and look for the office of civil rights. Call them. They are amazingly helpful.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 6:43am
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So, while I've been studying up on our 504, how my son qualifies, how the accommodations we've asked for are definitely reasonable -- preparing for whatever it is that will happen Tuesday, I did come upon another thread that asked a similar question. I am still left wondering too, what one does -- can do -- or the result if a 504 is violated.
Do we all end up writing letters, emails, politely talking to teachers & school personnel? Then, once having informed the school, we just go back to business as usual because they say it won't happen again, thank you for telling us, we really do care about your child? No assurances that in a week we won't be in the same situation again? If that is the case, part of me feels like "what is the point?"
I have a 504. I am glad we have it most of the time. I am left wondering though sometimes if the school can just sit back and say "big whup". They just say they are sorry, and all is well and good.
I mean really, we tell the Principal, the Principal talks to the Teacher, we talk to the Teacher..... "oh I'm sorry" "we are all learning together" "we want your DS safe".. Yada, Yada, Yada....... they do enough to look like there has been "Good Faith" ... but the same thing happens next week.
What can you do? What has been effective? How many times do they get before you go to the OCR? Do they have to violate the 504 once a month for that? Once a week? The same violation over again?
I guess as I sit and think about all of this stuff, the point that we are at, how this has hit DH and I, I'm looking for the "Now that you have a 504 and it gets violated, these are the guidelines to follow". Are we going overboard? Are we being nitpicky? Some violations shouldn't be really be viewed equally? What?

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 7:03am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Not enough time to read the thread because of children clammering for the computer (and not simply mine [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] ).
I do remember when I was first a member here, another member having to deal with a truant officer or the threat of one. I'll see if I can contact her.
Interesting situation that some Canadians have come across, myself included - where we're TOLD to keep our children home until the school can get things sorted.
I'll try to get back into this later to-day (or tomorrow morning); but will try to contact that one member I remember from years ago.
I know this is difficult, but I do think it's important that you did raise a separate thread to discuss *it* (as if *it* encompasses all of the overwhelming stuff you're going through, sorry [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] ) because there are a lot of people who have had to deal with stuff like this and even though it may seem like it's a lot to absorb, when you're trying to individualize it for your own situation, it does come in handy.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 7:09am
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You may have to call OCR. If you have documentation of repeated violations, then I think that is your only recourse.
Your son may not be considered truant if he is absent to receive "medical services." If the school refuses to follow the 504 which is essentially a prescription for how to manage his peanut allergy, then he must be home to receive this needed care. A note from the allergist would help to back you up on this. This is about access.
Last year, DD's teacher repeatedly violated her 504. This year, the difference is like night and day. The teacher is willingly following the 504 and everything is going very smoothly.
Maybe Rhonda could advise you?
Cathy

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 7:32am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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gvmom, I can't really tell you what I would do in your situation. All I can say is that for me, I [i]think[/i] that the line (beyond which I will contact OCR) is when one of two things is happening:
1. They refuse to discuss with me how the violation will be addressed/remediated, or treat it as though it is [i]unimportant[/i] that the violation happened...or even worse, that one happened at all.
or,
2. A repeat violation that I feel [i]absolutely, emphatically CANNOT[/i] be repeated without a very grave risk to my child. (So unsafe "may contain" candy [i]in the room[/i] might not do it... but repeatedly [i]encouraging[/i] her to eat something unsafe would.)
Am I making sense here? So (again, for me) if it were something like a handwashing violation, I would perhaps let that one slide (assuming in our case that the unwashed wasn't a pb eater)... but directly OFFERING my child grossly unsafe food would be verboten. Multiple violations there would do me. Mostly this is about DD's ability (and ours) to anticipate certain risks and provide a safety net for the 504 plan. If it isn't possible to do that (for whatever reason) on a particular provision of the 504 plan, then it is absolutely unacceptable for them not to have a plan which lays out how [i]it will NEVER happen again.[/i]
Am I making any sense here?
As to the assertion that they'll hold your child truant-- wow. I don't think that they will. I just don't. Unless it is their plan to deny RE: a 504 violation that he's enrolled at all (that you have decided [i]de facto[/i] to homeschool and have simply neglected to properly notify your local ESD and district). I just mention this because some things strike me as being at least compatible with them wanting you to just go away.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
So sorry. I can feel how painful this is-- truly. How ugly people can be-- all over food. They just forget how hurtful it is for the child who just wants to be a regular kid.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 9:24am
anonymous's picture
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gvmom,
Do you know what would happen if you were turned in for truancy?
A friend of mine is the truant officer for our district. I called her and asked what would happen in this kind of situation. She said she meets with the parties involved and hears each 'side.' She gives lots of chances to resolve things before filing charges.
I know things differ everywhere. I just wanted to share one example - maybe to offer hope?

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 9:58am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Has FAAN ever helped anyone with regard to 504 violations or even questions?
I know that when I was having difficulty here, I called Anaphylaxis Canada. On one occasion (the time when the school would not allow Jesse to come to school), they were helpful. On another occasion (the bench), they were not helpful.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 10:15am
gvmom's picture
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Thanks Lam. I would hope that they'd hear both sides. DH and I are rule followers - and really getting into "trouble" for any reason just is mortifying. And given how much we've really tried to compromise and work with the school, it just makes it even worse to think they'd turn around and nail us for keeping DS out of a potentially dangerous situation because of their inability to enforce the 504. For me though, given that irony seems to be a recurrent theme in our lives -- in major ways -- it looms over my head like another shoe that is about to drop!
Momcat -- I'm curious about how you handled last year with your DD's teacher. With repeated violations, what did you do? Was there an approach you took with the school that made you feel as though you could make progress toward what has turned out to be a smooth year this year? What did the school say to you with respect to fixing the problems?
And Corvallis Mom, you are making sense. What I would ask is let's say you had something like the handwashing violation. How many times would you let this slip? What if it were homebaked goods that kept making it into class? If the basic problem was that the teacher was the weak link? Would the same violation have to be repeated over and over, or would multiple violations that involved different issues -- all related to food though, in order for things to become unacceptable? Then what?
And again, I am hoping they don't try and assert truancy. Lots of things seem so unclear due to the state of our school district. Many of the things I read here on the boards as examples I have a hard time translating into our situation with respect to who you have in your chain of command, as part of your 504 teams, who you can go to, etc. The routes you take when something gets violated. We have a large district but there are no nurses. The 504 coordinator is the Principal. The school board is just in name only -- powerless. Our 504 team was just DH and the Principal working things out in her office. (wow, re-reading that really sounds pathetic frankly - I'm embarassed for our district)
It has been a very sad thing for DH & I to see to what extent a piece of junk food takes priority over our son's life. I know DH will be able to speak to these people. To be civil. Diplomatic. At this point I am nauseated. I cry when I think about it, and I know that in the end they won't really care. Ever. He is my son.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 11:59am
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Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]Momcat -- I'm curious about how you handled last year with your DD's teacher. With repeated violations, what did you do? Was there an approach you took with the school that made you feel as though you could make progress toward what has turned out to be a smooth year this year? What did the school say to you with respect to fixing the problems?[/b]
There were repeated instances of the teacher handing out candy without checking with me. An incident where DD (and the rest of her class) was told to pick up trash on the playground as a punishment for one of their classmates littering (not DD.) There were field trip planning problems (teacher didn't make arrangements in a timely manner as laid out in 504.) Inconsistent handwiping. I did not remove DD from class (in fact she had perfect attendance last year), but I did inform the principal by email every time there was a problem. At the end of the year I requested a 504 review meeting and I laid out what happened during the year--i.e. what worked and what didn't. We changed some things in the 504 and clarified others.
I don't know that my approach had that much to do with our success this year. It seems to me that it depends so much on the teacher's attitude. Last year, DD had a teacher who was just punching the clock and not happy about having to do anything special/extra for anybody. This year's teacher is just a much better, more involved teacher who really wants each student to have a good learning experience in her class. I wish I could clone her! I hope next year we have someone who is as committed to teaching.
Cathy

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 1:21pm
Gail W's picture
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Quote: originally posted by gvmom:
What can you do? What has been effective? How many times do they get before you go to the OCR? Do they have to violate the 504 once a month for that? Once a week? The same violation over again?
I've never withheld Mariah from school. But I certainly understand that you feel your son is not safe, and therefore you're keeping him home.
Like others suggested, I documented the event in writing by using the words 'violated' and 'non-compliant':
<><><><><><><><><><><><>
[url="http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html"]http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html[/url]
[b][i]38. What are the responsibilities of regular education teachers with respect to implementation of Section 504 plans? What are the consequences if the district fails to implement the plans?[/b]
Regular education teachers must implement the provisions of Section 504 plans when those plans govern the teachers' treatment of students for whom they are responsible. If the teachers fail to implement the plans, such failure can cause the school district to be in noncompliance with Section 504.[/i]
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
If this is [i]repeated[/i] then I think it's time to consult OCR. . . [b]not [/b] to file a complaint (not [i]yet [/i]anyway, as there is much to prepare before filling a complaint) but ask for 'technical assistance' to help your school get back into compliance. What I've done in the past (like the thread on "fee based" I recently raised) is to consult with OCR by e-mail and ask for their response via e-mail. Having that [i]in hand[/i] before a meeting gave me confidence.
One of the things I remember Rhonda telling me was something along the lines of,[i] "Now that you've fought tooth and nail to get these accommodations, you'll need to hold the school to them". [/i] Last year there was a violation re teachers having lunch sessions in the classrooms. It involved multiple meetings with administrators over a couple months before it was finally resolved. I'm sure you'll remember (you posted in it), but here's a stoll down memory lane : [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/002096.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/002096.html[/url]
Feel free to contact me off the boards if you want.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 2:40pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Still thinking and not reading everything yet, my apologies.
I don't know what OCR is (see, that's where the country thing can get in the way). However, I do know that when I had all the problems in Grade Three with Jesse, I had everything ready (I mean everything) to file a complaint with the Ontario Human Rights Commission (thanks to advice from people here) and they were the people that actually got him into school that year.
One day, for consolation, or commiseration, I'll re-raise my old threads of those terrible times (as I touch wood that those terrible times will never befall me again - as if).
Is Rhonda in California? I do know another member in California, whose 504 was posted before Rhonda's extensive work began, and who may be of assistance as well.
It's just so mind boggling, overwhelming, and makes you want to go back to bed, hug your child, and pretend school doesn't exist.
Again, my apologies for not fully reading the thread yet, but these thoughts keep popping into aged brain. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img]
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 3:55pm
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gvmom,
Ahhhh... I see. You already have repeat violations that point to a chronic problem-- your classroom teacher. Right?
I'm not sure what I would do. Is the teacher a snot? Or just a doofus? With a snot, OCR seems like a good idea at this point... but with a doofus, it might not be necessary. I mean, like you, I am just such a rule-follower. Authority-pleaser. (Even if I don't seem that way here.) I kinda go with my gut on these things... I mean, I view OCR involvement (or calling an attorney) as a lever of last resort, in a way. But it is definitely in the toolbox.
It nearly killed me to come to the conclusion in August that I might well have to get OCR involved in our situation. Made me nauseaus just thinking about it. But the mere [i]hint[/i] got us results. Immediately. Just the realization that I meant business and knew the steps to take it higher was enough.
I guess I would attempt to work through the system, but in a regular classroom situation like you have, I would definitely emphasize to the district's PTB (or your 504 team, if it seems most prudent)... that you really feel strongly that Ms/Mr Classroom Teacher is in need of some refresher training. Clearly s/he is failing to fully understand what is at stake here.
Lest you need to get anyone else involved in the repeated violations, I might add.
Calling that person the weak link seems unlikely to get you where you need to go right now. (Even if it is emphatically [i]true[/i].... )
I'd lay a good paper trail beginning immediately, however. Got all those e-mails about previous violations handy? Add V-day to the file. Or if you don't, I'd be sure to send a nice letter of understanding about those events to the principal, teacher, and the district's chosen "person" that they've already told you will be involved.
Is there any chance that the involvement of this outside individual is more about someone not personally involved who can lower the boom on the classroom teacher without the principal having to be 'bad cop'? Or is it about escalation in general?
Because I don't necessarily see the involvement of an ombudsman as a bad thing here... maybe it's my ed background, and I could be really wrong about that.... but I think you need to wait and see. But if you feel that it would be helpful to let them know that you have OCR's phone number, I think that is probably warranted at this point as well. Keep it in your pocket, anyway.
I am glad that your DH is going to be pinch hitting some for you... I wish mine had. I was so distressed by all of that. It is a good thing, in a way, actually-- because I knew there was no way I could be making phone calls without bursting into tears. but it gave me a nice paper record. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] So I was inadvertently savvy. Whatever works, right? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited February 19, 2007).]

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 10:25pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Alternative to Mainstream:
[b]Interesting situation that some Canadians have come across, myself included - where we're TOLD to keep our children home until the school can get things sorted.
[/b]
[i]I'm CANADIAN??[/i]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Anywhooooo. No, um....Yes, I was TOLD, by a principal of my then first grade son's school: [i]"You should homeschool your son." wrt his peanut allergy.
I live in IL, USA, proper.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 10:32pm
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gvmom: I don't have additional advice. I have just been thinking about your situation and trying to imagine what I would do. I think I would do what you are doing and keep my child home until true changes have been made by the school.
Does the school think your 504 is some sort of a joke? I would not sit at school and be the 504 monitor, not even for a day. I think that is "enabling" the school. JMO. I would contact the OCR and discuss this situation with them. Hopefully they can guide you as to what to do. Good luck and keep us posted.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 10:39pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b] I mean, like you, I am just such a rule-follower. Authority-pleaser. [/b]
so am I. which, I'm assuming, is why my transition to [i]conduct-disorder[/i] has been so [b]de-LI-shee-OOS.[/I]
considering my oppositional nature. My tendency to debate. Not only am I not giving a you know what whether they think I'm a polite, considerate, helpful, whatever, I'm not waiting my turn, standing in line, [i]and I'm saying whatever is on my mind, especially if it's the truth[/i]. Blunt. Childish. Whatever. I'm not even returning phone calls. . . I cancelled the last IEP meeting and haven't looked back.
I do believe I'm tantruming. In a quiet, sly, understated sort of way.
love it love it love it. I will teach them new meaning of the terms: [i]difficult[/i] and [i]rude[/i].
de-LI-shee-OOS!
General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I'm just being difficult and blunt. Can't help it. I've been told it's in my nature. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] But OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO----delisheeoos!!!! I might be ruined for life.

Posted on: Sun, 02/18/2007 - 11:25pm
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gvmom, you might want to familiarize yourself with the definitition of "truancy" per the California state board of eduation: [url="http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/ai/tr/"]http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/ai/tr/[/url]
[i][b]"Truancy[/b]
Information and resources that define truancy and truancy penalties and other related information.
[b]Definition of a Truant[/b]
The California Legislature defined a truant in very precise language. In summary, it states that a student missing more than 30 minutes of instruction without an excuse three times during the school year must be classified as a truant and reported to the proper school authority. This classification and referral helps emphasize the importance of school attendance and is intended to help minimize interference with instruction. The Education Code (EC) Section that defines a truant reads as follows:
EC Section 48260 (a): Any pupil subject to compulsory full-time education or compulsory continuation education who is absent from school without a valid excuse three full days or tardy or absent more than any 30-minute period during the school day without a valid excuse on three occasions in one school year, or any combination thereof, is a truant and shall be reported to the attendance supervisor or the superintendent of the school district."[/i]
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
So, your strategy seems clear: You have provided your school "an excuse" for keeping your son from attending school. . . . Your "excuse" being that school is unsafe until the 504 violations are corrected. Have you informed the school that the reason you are keeping your son home is because his Section 504 plan has been violated?
They may try to counter that this is not a 'valid' excuse, which you could use to your advantage (e.g. Are you saying that my son's safety is not a valid concern? I wonder if the California state board of education would agree with your assessment that my son's safety is not 'valid'.)
ETA: I mean, you could ask them if you sent your son to school, would they similarly accuse you of being a 'bad mommy' ("negligence") by knowingly sending your child into an environment that you knew to be unsafe.
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited February 19, 2007).]

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 12:13am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]So, your strategy seems clear: You have provided your school "an excuse" for keeping your son from attending school. . . . Your "excuse" being that school is unsafe until the 504 violations are corrected. Have you informed the school that the reason you are keeping your son home is because his Section 504 plan has been violated?
They may try to counter that this is not a 'valid' excuse, which you could use to your advantage (e.g. Are you saying that my son's safety is not a valid concern? I wonder if the California state board of education would agree with your assessment that my son's safety is not 'valid'.)
ETA: I mean, you could ask them if you sent your son to school, would they similarly accuse you of being a 'bad mommy' ("negligence") by knowingly sending your child into an environment that you knew to be unsafe.
[/b]
In my case, I was also an RN, so it would have been (theoretically) impossible to claim I knew otherwise. The onus was, for all intents, overwhelmingly on me. Both ethically, as a mother, and [i]legally[/i] as a licensed RN.
If you want to get hypothetical and theoretical. Fear of losing (had to pause there) my licence wasn't my concern, but, the logic surrounding it, I think, emphasized my point. I mean, I was a [i]knowledgeable individual[/i], as the [b]physician's letter[/b] regarding my son's health needs [i]documented[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] The letter also documented the [i]conditions[/i] that needed to be present that would allow [i]safe attendance[/i]. It was almost as if my physician left them [i]standing orders[/i], and I was the designee to determine if conditions were right. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img] (does it get any better??)
Oh, which brings me to the [b]physician's letter[/b], previously submitted to the district with our designation request (ended up with an IEP, not a 504, but that's another discussion) The documentation, in part, was already there. I just had to point it out. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
I almost begged them to cry: "Truant!" [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
gvmom, maybe there is something in this thread (I remember my physician's letter being discussed there somewhere), that might be of value:
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001477.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001477.html[/url]

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 1:39am
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Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]In our school, I know that if I sat there with my other son it would be viewed as my trying to be disruptive. It would be viewed as trying to make a statement. I know that it wouldn't be viewed as my concern for my son's safety. And really, they also would let me do it, willingly -- even see it as my right as a parent to sit in that classroom -- regardless of the food allergy. Then they could abdicate any responsibility. They would willingly let me in the classroom, let me clean up, let me be the one turning away homebaked goods at the classroom door, for as long as I wanted -- then they wouldn't be the bad guy. The teacher wouldn't have to be and neither would the principal. That is how it is viewed. Haven't I said my last name was "Killjoy"?[/b]
I thought the same thing before I did it. I didn`t stay there in order to get them to change. I stayed because it was in dd`s best interest. And yes, they definitely saw it as disruptive. That was exactly why it worked so well. You really don`t know if something like that will or won`t work without trying it. And if you "enable them" one time, but your child is safe because of it, it is so worth it. It seems like you have tried pretty much everything else. You have nothing to lose by trying it. It takes away the whole power struggle factor which seems to be the way they look at it, which was also true when I had to resort to staying at school. It just worked so much better than I ever thought it would. It made them take it MUCH more seriously than they would have otherwise. And if they are even trying to accuse you of truancy, clearly they are into the power and control issue. Staying with your ds cuts right through that.

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 2:27am
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Quote:
...Haven't I said my last name was "Killjoy"?
D'you think you, MB, Carefulmom and I are all [i]related??[/i]
LOL!
(Currently sche-- uh, I mean, planning. Planning. Planning how to deal with our latest violation.... since as Gail pointed out to me, I can't let it slide or I will be enabling them to continue doing it.)
Ack. Makes me feel a little queasy just thinking about being so- so-- [i]unpleasant. Demanding. Difficult.[/i]
I think I need some of MommaBear's kool-aid. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 3:16am
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b] I mean, I view OCR involvement (or calling an attorney) as a lever of last resort, in a way. But it is definitely in the toolbox.[/b]
It doesn't need to be the last resort. You can utilize their resources without filing a "complaint". You can ask for "technical assistance" by e-mailing them a detailed question and receiving your response via e-mail. Or you can consult with them on the phone. You can decide if you want to formally "involve" OCR (i.e. file a formal complaint) based on the preliminary information you receive from them. But in the situations where I consulted with OCR, I found that having their written response was more than enough to get the school's attention to address the violation. By consulting with OCR via writing you can control the communication in much the same way we control information via the physician's letter. Instead of initiating/allowing a carte blanche communication between OCR and the school, you can control the communication by being the gatekeeper. . . you can show the school the information from OCR that you want the school to see.
So having an answer from OCR (in writing) regarding your specific situation can actually be [i]better[/i] (ie. more useful) than filing a complaint. I'd be very, very cautious before filing a complaint with OCR, and be very thoughtful about having my documentation clearly ready and thoughout before initiating that process.
JMHO.

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 8:10am
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I do know that OCR takes about a month to get their stuff together before pulling the tanks up to the school...that's IF they decide to proceed forward after speaking with you.
If I were you, I would contact a special ed attorney asap, because it takes a long time for people to get back to you sometimes. Most of the time, the attorneys won't charge you until they take the case and even then they work it out for you. You just need a legal mind on your side at this point if you are going to be hit with a possible truancy charge. You kept your child out of school due to his/her present disability which the school is aware of, so you should not have any major issues with this. I think they are bluffing and being big a-holes about it frankly. Since they want to play a little hardball, maybe get secured with a legal mind on your side ([url]http://www.wrightslaw.com[/url]) < that site has lists of attorneys state to state who deal with special ed. No, not actually food allergies, but they can deal with the stinkin' truancy threat if anything. Then call OCR and speak with an intake person to get some guidance. They are pretty frank actually and can sort out the trash from the good stuff. Just my newbie opinion. :-)

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 9:11am
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I have written e-mail questions to my area OCR office and generally have received an e-mail responses between 2 and 3 weeks.

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 10:31am
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b] D'you think you, MB, Carefulmom and I are all [i]related??[/i]
LOL! [/b]
we sure get along like siblings. How did I get to be the middle child?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Quote:[b](Currently sche-- uh, I mean, planning. Planning. [/b]
It's all part of your secretevilplan to take over the wooooooooorld!! (~Dennis O'leary or The Brain, whichever you identify most with)
Quote:[b]Ack. Makes me feel a little queasy just thinking about being so- so-- [i]unpleasant. Demanding. Difficult.[/i]
[/b]
[i]When she was good She was very, very good, But when she was bad she was horrid.[/i]
I prefer to think of myself as Longfellow's "id". Ask my principal.
Quote:[b]I think I need some of MommaBear's kool-aid. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[/b]
Pinot Noir is tasting mighty fine tonight. (Izzy has weaned herself)
She was downright hillarious doing it. Every time I encouraged her to nurse..........CHOMP. She was giggling like crazy. I took it as firm "NO". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Motrin......gift of the gods. I can't believe I've went almost two years without it. I can actually bend my neck to wrap a towel around my hair. OH....almost forgot: don't mix Motrin with alcohol. Public safety message. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 11:20am
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[b]I don't know that my approach had that much to do with our success this year. It seems to me that it depends so much on the teacher's attitude.[/b]
Momcat, one of the reasons I asked about your approach is because DH and I also keep asking ourselves if we did something wrong. If we somehow missed something. But, really, I think it seems to be part of our feelings, because of how we are treated, like asking for the accommodations, that we have asked for, is an enormous imposition. And really, I feel like if I posted the accommodations of our 504, it would make people

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 11:31am
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[b]we sure get along like siblings. How did I get to be the middle child?? [/b]
Well, if you are taking the list to represent birth order, then am I the older responsible one or the youngest that gets away with everything (and if CorvallisMom doesn't mind, I wanna be the latter!)???!!!!!!!

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 12:34pm
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Gvmom, do you want me to find the phone number of the lady in Sacramento so you could just sort of bounce the story off of her and see what she says? Sort of like are they allowed to be doing this? If she is on your side, then you could ask where you could find something in writing stating this. If you don`t like her answer, no one at the school would ever have to know that you called her. When I had the problem with dd`s school and called her, she never even asked the name of the school. So it wasn`t like she was going to call the school and tell them I called. At least you could get her opinion about the recurrent violations and the "truancy" issue.

Posted on: Mon, 02/19/2007 - 1:01pm
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Carefulmom, I went back and did a search in my old email - Linda right? Funny, you sent me the info back before we jumped in with both feet with the 504. We were just trying to find a way to make it so DS wouldn't be eating on the ground! Apparently it turned out a 504 was the way. And I'm feeling a bit more comfortable with the idea of calling the OCR or emailing, so I do think that depending on how the call goes tomorrow, calling her might be in order. Thank you for offering to find the number for me though.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 1:24am
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interesting conversation I had with the administration this morning. No nurse. This person believes my child is "safe" to attend without one. I told this person obviously, they hasn't read my child's IEP.
I asked this person if they had an asthmatic child with an IEP or a 504 for a health need that required an inhaler available for that child, yet the parents did not provide one, refused to provide one, couldn't provide one, were just forgetful, what would they do if that child frequently experienced respiratory distress?
This person responded they did not know. (long, long, LONG pause, folks, maybe it was just a "put on the spot" knee jerk reflex)
I said: so, you'd risk that child dying at school because their parents wouldn't provide an essential tool to implement their plan? Protect their safety?
The conversation got tense.
I asked this person again, if they'd read my child's IEP and they admitted to me that they did not feel my child needed a nurse in order to attend school. Despite what his IEP stated.
I asked this person what made them qualified to determine this. The conversation went further [i]south[/i].
I asked them (in my most herculean Socratic sense) if, in the hypothetical asthma case, would they prohibit the child from attending without an inhaler available?
This person said they'd never come across a situation where that had ever been the case. The inhaler in such cases, was *ALWAYS* available.
Silence.
I repeated they admitted they did not feel the school nurse was necessary and therefore should take the time to AT LEAST READ THE EMERGENCY PLAN of my son's IEP. this person accused me of twisting their words.
Ask me if I believe my district is fully invested in filling the nurse position now open. (lack of a sub today).
[i]I told this person, since the district has repeatedly documented difficulty filling the rn position and the one to one educational aide position[/i] [b]despite claiming their best efforts[/b] I'd probably be requesting at my child's annual review [b]out of district placement[/b], where filling the most basic needs and providing an [i]appropriate[/i] education would be possible. Since the district has documented the district's ineptitude where this is concerned. The lack of ability and resources.
General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I'm just identifying.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited February 20, 2007).]

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 1:38am
Carefulmom's picture
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Gvmom, yes it was Linda.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 2:41am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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I don't think I want to be old[i]est[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Being oldest always means Mom scolds you, "I expected [i]YOU[/i] to know better....."
Feeling very old anyway this morning for a number of reasons. Some related to 504 issues. But I got an e-mail from Baltimore this morning... at about 8 AM EST [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] that a new box is being airplaned. (Is that even a word?? Anyway. 2nd day Air... to make up for the ground-shipped box that will be refused this afternoon. )
Now to deal with [i]WHY does this keep happening??? Hmmmm?[/i] Because Gail is absolutely correct-- gotta deal with the root cause here instead of enabling.
Clearly basic [i]literacy[/i] among some school administrators is at an all-time low, MommaBear. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Given that ours is only the one page, you'd think it was pretty much "lite" reading.... but evidently not "lite" enough.
How'd it go today, gvmom?
I agree-- the teacher's behavior and actions leave you with quite a predicament... [b]unless[/b] you chalk it up to total lip-service based on some bit of "information" acquired somewhere else... like how what she really [i]feels[/i] like doing should be fine, as teacher X, Y, Z has had one of [i]those kids[/i] and did such and such anyway and it was fine, the parents never even knew...
Is it possible that teacher is telling you what you want to hear but basically letting the conversation go in one ear and out the other and then doing what she's always done because of something she "knows" to be true/untrue?? If so, it may explain why Principal has elected to involve an ombudsperson.
I would also like to say thanks to Gail for offering the suggestion of "technical assistance" from OCR. What an epiphany. I have long thought (like gvmom) that I didn't want to contact OCR unless I was willing to "go down that road" and had all my ducks lined up. But now I know there is another option. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited February 20, 2007).]

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 3:44am
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Thanks, Carefulmom. I'll be printing out the email to put with my 504 binder (which today I figure will have to become 2 binders instead of one because of overflow -- even though the one is 4 inches thick).
[b]How'd it go today, gvmom?[/b]
Well, it was interesting, so far. Still haven't talked to the O-guy, but DH went and talked with the teacher this morning.
First, the candy was Brach's that was used in the classroom on V-day. Good grief, the worst brand in the world for PA/TNA as far as I can tell. We would have never given our permission for him to use it (even if we agreed that food could be used in lesson plans -- which we don't, and which isn't allowed according to his 504)
Second, she thinks that we should be having DS take more responsibility for his allergy. That we do too much. (I can hardly put words to this one)
Third, that he could have opted out of the activity. (This one has me nearly speechless --- unless I'm able to use a litany of profanity with it). Seriously, how many 7 year olds will even think to opt out of their math lesson for the day?
Anyway, she told DH that from here on out, she doesn't foresee anything at school that would involve food except for 2 field trips that the children would be eating bag lunches on.
I don't feel better. Sure, my guess is that she'd take an emergency seriously, but my belief now is that the allergy itself isn't taken with the same seriousness as other disabilities covered under a 504. To me, those accommodations are there to help be preventative. If they don't believe it, or feel like my son at 7 should be the one to administrate them, it doesn't make me feel good at all about his safety.
I mean, am I supposed to tell my 7 year old that if food comes into the classroom, that doesn't fall within the guidelines of his 504, he is supposed to ask the teacher for a "buddy" to go to the office. Then once in the office, he is supposed to tell the Principal that the teacher is violating his 504? Or, is he supposed to say that to the teacher in the class? What do they expect? My kid is supposed to be their keeper? I seriously need to go take a breath the more I think about this.
[b]I asked this person what made them qualified to determine this. [/b]
Amen. Amen. Amen.
[b]I'm just identifying.[/b]
Me too. Especially right now.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 3:55am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Ouch.
That's what I was afraid of after you explained what sorts of violations were happening.
Sounds like there are "literacy" issues all over right now... Baltimore, CA, IL.....
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[i]"GOSH. If only all of the [b]well-qualified[/b] members of the 504 team had just had [b]YOU[/b] in the room.... we could have cleared all that 'not-really-needed' stuff right up....."[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Duh. Why do such people evidently think that an entire GROUP of people familiar with the individual needs/recommendations associated with MY KID had their heads up their..... but now, THEY know better????? What, with their dual medical and law degrees, or is it something else?
I agree, gvmom. It sounds like the lights are on but nobody's home when it comes to the "prevention" side of things. I feel for you.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 4:03am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Quote:
...from here on out, she doesn't foresee anything at school that would involve food...
Whoa. [b]THAT's rich.[/b]
So, umm..... was V-Day's lesson plan "foreseeable" then? Or was that a taste of the "unforeseen" future that your child has to look forward to? Good grief.
Just think of me as the other "over-protective" mom who thinks this is a lot to ask of a 7 yo. You know, in addition to their basic "school-related" responsibilities. Which seem plenty complex enough for their peers, KWIM?

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 4:12am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

I kinda feel that a 7 year old carrying around the knowledge that a microscopic amount of food could kill them was a pretty big responsibility -- but I guess I was wrong. (Again -- smothered, completely, in sarcasm).
I don't know how much more "real world" that gets.
And yes, unforeseen foreseeable food. This is the uncertaintly we are expected to swallow right?

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 4:53am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Even if food is not going to be an issue from here on out - like I believe that for one second - this year isn't the only issue. This needs to be settled for the years to follow. You know, so there's no, "Well that's not how it was done last year..." We've changed our son's 504 yearly, but it's been to remove accomodations, not add them.
Sorry for yet another disappointment, gvmom. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
And, I wanted to add that I contacted the OCR a few years back, just with a general question about how PA qualifies as a disability. So, yeah, you can just ask questions. EDIT: I contacted the OCR via e-mail.
[This message has been edited by Lam (edited February 20, 2007).]

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:01am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]And, the email that was sent to the Principal about V-day is the one she plans to forward to this Ombuds-person. In it the violation is stated and that we are keeping DS home from school due to that. We

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:11am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]I absolutely put it in terms of that money because that is how everything is put to us. About everything at the school. All the events are about raising money. If your child is sick, we lose money. If your child wants to participate in certain PTA school events they have to raise a certain minimum amount of money. The hand is out constantly. And I do think that since they view my child as having a dollar sign in the middle of his forehead they could at least care if he dies in the classroom or not. I don't feel as though they care one wit about him except that he represents $36 dollars a day. That maybe they will be desperate enough to get that $36 dollars and stop allowing violations -- easily prevented ones -- from occurring.
And I will tell you that I am mad. For me it is about my son's life. I am mad at them that I spend every day worried about him dying at that school. We spent so much time working with that school. We have sacrificed so much -- and will continue to willingly for the safety of our children. And really we have no recourse, no safeguard if they violate the 504. To me, keeping my son home serves 2 purposes:
1. He is safe.
2. They don't benefit while they jeopardize his life.
[/b]
Focus on #1. I understand your feelings about #2, but I'm concerned it complicates your situation in a way that doesn't benefit you or your child.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:17am
Carefulmom's picture
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Joined: 01/03/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] I'm wondering if they are reading your letter to mean that you are witholding your child from attending school as [i]retaliation [/i]and not a 'safety' issue. Wondering what the implications are here. . . .
[/b]
I also had that impression and agree, leave the money out of it.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:21am
Carefulmom's picture
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Joined: 01/03/2002 - 09:00

Originally posted by gvmom:
"Second, she thinks that we should be having DS take more responsibility for his allergy. That we do too much. (I can hardly put words to this one)"
This is such a flimsy excuse on the school`s part it is pathetic. I was told that once also in a situation where dd was taking more responsibility than most kids her age would have. It had to do with crumbs on a table where kids do their homework. Dd was having to do homework standing up because the table had crumbs (since she is also milk allergic and most bread/cookies/cakes/ have milk, she rightly assumed the crumbs had a high chance of having milk. Anyhow, I took it to the 504 coordinator and he said the same thing. It is so transparent when the school is trying to pass the responsiblity off on a 7 year old for something the school staff should be doing. That comment that your teacher made would make me livid.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:31am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

Personally, I'd write them a check. I am just being honest here. Regardless of the FA issue, with everything else at this school, money pervades it all. It makes me ill.
I haven't mentioned the money at all to the school. Safety is always the priority - everywhere & all the time. On a personal level though, in my own home, diplomatic BS aside, I also know the feeling I have gotten from them in general. He is a dollar sign -- just like many of us are just social security numbers.
See, I look into the eyes of my son, the one that I have to tell he could die from something his teacher would hand to him -- his absence is more than just some dollars out of my wallet. I can't even tell you what it would be worth to me to have them value him the same way. That they also would believe his safety was more important -- that he should stay home until they have it fixed. That it would be more important to have him safe.
So far though, DH has heard nothing from the guy. It is 12:30 our time though. Still plenty of time left in the day.

Posted on: Tue, 02/20/2007 - 5:50am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Third, that he could have opted out of the activity. (This one has me nearly speechless --- unless I'm able to use a litany of profanity with it). Seriously, how many 7 year olds will even think to opt out of their math lesson for the day?
[b]Anyway, she told DH that from here on out, she doesn't foresee anything at school that would involve food except for 2 field trips that the children would be eating bag lunches on.[/b]
could we translate that as: "if a food faux pas comes up again, [i]better to beg forgiveness than ask permission[/i]. I hate being held to a standard. Doing my job. It's easier to explain a mistake when promises aren't made, or when it's a given that expectations aren't monitored or enforced. Don't be such a downer. You cramp my style."
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited February 20, 2007).]

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