lilpig99, I've been following your posts for the last few weeks. We are late to the ball game regarding 504's, since dh didn't see the need until the last week of school last year.
A bit of background. PA dd has been at a private pre-K for 2 years, and is entering their K this year. Older dd's are there as well. This school does receive federal funding for various things, including money and food (PB!) for lunches. For the last 2 years we've been working with the school, educating them, regarding PA dd. We've had much more support from her teachers than the principal, who is not willing to place restrictions on anyone else as to what they can bring in the classroom etc. Last year, the week before school got out, dh was called to pick up dd from school because a mother brought PB cookies to school for a birthday. Instead of fighting, dh went and got dd out of school for the day. (Not that in the heat of the moment I would have done differently, but hindsight is 20/20.) That made dh, previously a "don't rock the boat" type, decide we did need a 504 plan.
We submitted one. It doesn't really ask for much more than what the teachers are already voluntarily doing, with the exception of a designated PN free table, and no PN products in dd's class room.
The principal left a message on our machine last week (right before leaving town for a week - can we say passive aggressive?) saying "well, there are some things that we really can't do in this document, and you know, we really do want ---- at the school, but we don't have to accept her..." and so on, and so on. (As alarm bells start going off in my head.)
That is my issue. I like private schools because they can boot who ever they want, but what options do I have here? Are they allowed to disenroll her because of PA (if they were enboldened enough to say so)? I want to push for a 504, but if it jeapordizes my children (because we'd probably pull older dd's out also) staying at this school, what rights do I actually have? If they boot her without saying why, can I push to make them say why? She has no academic or discipline problems.
Do I even want to go there?
ACK! How hard is it to say no PN's in the classroom!?!?
This is a very small school, less than 200 kids, in a small town where dh grew up. We personally know alot of the parents. Most of the parents are very willing to help make dd safe. Some have not been helpful, or at least have not put much thought into the matter. I doubt PB cookie mom last year was being malignant, but just didn't think.
I think most parents would be willing to limit what they send to the classroom, but without the school willing to help with that, I feel like we are at the mercy of whatever parent is out there that feels like her child's rights are being violated if they CAN'T have PB.
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Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Noah, 7-29-05
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99
Just as in lilpig's case, it really sounds as though the school needs to be educated to understand that their federal funding comes with some strings attached-- namely, that they must compy with ADA.
If they take a [i]dime[/i] of taxpayer money, they have to comply with all of ADA... [i]including[/i] section 504.
You'd be doing them a favor by letting them know this before they get sued by someone else-- or perhaps worse, investigated by FDA/OCR and/or DOEd/OCR. (Depending upon what sort of funds they get.)
(Even if they don't see it that way initially... really, you're doing them a FAVOR by bringing them to compliance.)
I'd demand to get in writing any refusal to have your child in the school.
And for goodness sake..... [i]don't erase that phone message.[/i] WOW. The mere [i]mention[/i] of your proposed 504 plan in conjunction with 'we don't [i]have[/i] to have your child here' is probably a big no-no as far as OCR is concerned.
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited August 09, 2007).]
Ok, it's after 5, and instead of going home to my children, I'm re-reading some more of lilpig's posts.
No, we have not erased the message. Does anyone know how to preserve it more safely or transfer it? With that dangling out there, I keep wondering if hiring a lawyer might not be good. That seems like a huge step, but hey, the principal's the one that brought up, on record, this issue at the very first response to the 504.
Within 90 minutes of receiving that message, dh had called every school in the diocese and asked what their FA plans were. All but one had one. He documented times, names, what they said, etc. Dh is like a rabid rat terrier when it comes to tracking down info, stats, supporting data. At the same time, he is very willing to not push the issue and just call all the parents and request they not send PN's to class if this is all for naught.
Part of the message was "I'm sending the document up to the head adminstrator of the diocese." Dh spoke with that person yesterday, and let him know about what the other schools were doing. I'm not sure how far he got with him. Dh said he was really stressing the part about helping them prepare for the issue of FA's, etc, etc.
Like lilpig, unless things get ugly, we will most likely stay at this school regardless, but that really feels like we are seriously capitulating. Like "this is a big deal serious thing, but that's ok if you don't see it that way. Here is our tuition and we'll see you next month."
I'm very conflicted.
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Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Noah, 7-29-05
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99
Oh my. Yes. Document everything starting now. CorvallisMom is right. And they absolutely cannot deny enrollment if they participate in the national school lunch program (this is federal funding).
Asking first for the accomodations (within your 504 plan), before you get the designation is putting the cart before the horse. To do this the right (legal) way, you need to formally request, in writing, an 504 evaluation for your son. You first need that 504 designation before you hammer out the accomodations. If they tell you no, we won't evaluate, make them put it in writing, take it and file a complaint with the USDA Civil Rights Dept for your region. They absolutely cannot deny you a 504 evaluation meeting. It might do you good to read the USDA 504 implementing law found in the Code of Federal Regulation for Agriculture. The USDA's 5-4 implementing law is at [b]7CFR Part 15b- Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Handicap in Programs and Activities Receiving Federal Financial Assistance[/b]
According to their 504 law, a private school that receives federal financial assistance in the form of the USDA Food and Nutrition Services, National School Lunch Program cannot deny your child enrollment based on disability:
[url="http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/11feb20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/janqtr/pdf/7cfr15b.3.pdf"]http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/...f/7cfr15b.3.pdf[/url]
[i]15b.28 Private education.
(a) A recipient [/i](this is your school)[i] that provides private elementary or secondary education may not, on the basis of handicap, exclude a qualified handicapped person if the person can, with minor adjustments, be provided an appropriate education, as defined by 15b.22(b)(1)(i). Each recipient to which this section applies is also subject to the provisions of 15b.23 and 15b.26
...[/i]
The other provisions they talk of are about non academic services such as extracurricular activities(15b.26), and about what the educational setting must be like, least restricitve environment and such(15b.23).
Also read FNS Instruction about nondiscrimination compliance at:
[url="http://www.fns.usda.gov/cr/Documents/113-1.pdf"]http://www.fns.usda.gov/cr/Documents/113-1.pdf[/url]
And another of my favorites is: the USDA manual 'Accomodating Children with Special Dietary Needs'. In it they speak of food allergy and 504's:
[url="http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Guidance/special_dietary_needs.pdf"]http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Guidance/special_dietary_needs.pdf[/url]
Anyhow, read through the threads about what has happened along my journey, it might be similar and hopefully helpful. There are a few other choice ones I can raise for you as well. It is a long road to educate a school like yours, but it can be done. Prepare yourself with all things 504.
[This message has been edited by lilpig99 (edited August 10, 2007).]
Thanks. I think we were naive in thinking that by giving them our proposed 504 plan, we could work with them to find a solution.
Instead, I sat listening to dh, on the phone with the principal, having a conversation that started with "no, just a table that has a sign that says PN free." and ended with "exactly what do you mean she is no longer enrolled???"
At this point I personally would have gone ballistic. Dh is the better man, and kept stressing that we don't want a signed document (well, he doesn't), and we're just trying to help the school better deal with FA's in the future, blah, blah, blah. I was simply seeing red.
At one point, the principal told dh that if he was forced to make these accomodations, he would resign.
Another phone call later, while I was out, established that dd can in fact be enrolled, and that they will get together with us to discuss basically all the things we've done in the past. No need to mention that she was enrolled before the end of last year when they gladly took our advance payment.
Dh is now just working towards getting our foot back in the door. Once she is enrolled and school is started, I am going to push for the full plan, 504 designation, etc. At that point, if they decline, well, I guess I'll start waiving federal statutes at them and go from there.
Besides the principal, we really like this school. Older dd's have been there for 4 years now. The teachers are very on board with dd's PA (but get little support from the principal.) Even the new school secretary has agreed to stop buying PB crackers to sell at the front office.
Once again, all I really want is a PN free classroom and a corner of a table that I know hasn't been smeared in PB. WHY is that so HARD???? Why does this make this man so nervous?????
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Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Noah, 7-29-05
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99
Wow. First let me say I'm sorry the principal is being such a you know what.
Why on earth would the principal resign over that? That is ridiculous. I would assume it makes him nervous because either he has not been shown what a 504 can offer his school or he has spoken to a lawyer.
If the principal is back to enrolling your child, I would use this 'get together' to request a formal 504 evaluation meeting. (Of course this is what I would do, but maybe someone else here on the board can offer you better strategic advice). Hand him your written request even. Maybe call OCR before hand for some guidance...I'm sure their ears will perk up when you speak to them about your school considering denying your child's enrollment. Then show the school the guidance you received. But do utilize the OCR if you can, be it through the Dept of Ed or the USDA CR--depending on the funding.
As far as anyone would see it, if they took your money last year, they intended to enroll your child.
Try to remain calm though, keep level headed during your meeting, show them your knowledge...
Hugs...
[This message has been edited by lilpig99 (edited August 10, 2007).]
LoriJo-This principal is waiving a huge red flag right in your face. It is scary that he feels (and expresses) about food allergy. I understand your older daughter had a great experience, but there is no way I would enroll my DD there without a formal, written plan. My oldest breezes through school and we have no issues with his teacher/school staff (he has no special needs). The difference between his school-parent relationship versus my daughter's school-parent relationship is completely different. You would think each child had 2 different sets of parents. I can't really compare how he does with how my daughter will do. She has special needs (food allergies) that need management; he does not. Enroll her, insist on a 504 Evaluation with all sorts of documents about the federal aid and mandatory compliance with ADA, and see where it goes. I know you said the teachers have been great, but teachers and staff change...the principal sets the tone for the building and that negativity is so counterproductive.
Are there other school options where you live? I would at least start exploring them so you have a back up plan, if necessary.
Good luck!
Lots of good luck!
Nicole
Edited to add that a huge bonus if you get the 504 with accomodations is that the principal said he'll resign [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by PinkPoodle (edited August 11, 2007).]
I say push it through and force his hand. I know he didn't mean it, but maybe he will in fact resign. That's what you really need anyway--a different principal. What a little, [i]little[/i] man he is.
Thanks for everyone's support. Thanks also for all the links. I completely lost it at my dh last night, and I am usually completely unperturbable (doesn't help I'm PMS'ing this week.) Now dh thinks I'm a basket case - not so, just really angry at this principal.
To answer some questions. We are in a small, rural town. The only other school option is the public school here. The public school is not horrible, but I do not think it is as good as the private school, and it's student teacher ratio is twice the private school. Thre is other, background, details that make the private school more desirable to us.
Also, PA dd has been going to this private school for 2 years already. For the most part, they have tried really hard to make her safe, particularly the teachers. Yes, I know teachers can change, but the only one to ever balk has been the principal, and so far everyone under him just goes around him on most PA issues. And in the past, the principal wasn't so much negative, as completely wishy-washy. Wouldn't want to have to tell a parent what they can and can't bring in the room.
What I want with a 504 is the guarantee that dd will not be simply excluded from things instead of planning other solutions, like the incident last year with the PB cookies, and "can you come get her out of class?" The way I see it, without the 504, there is no way to state what should/will be done, and we are at the mercy of the teacher and his/her decision at that moment.
Obviously, I also want to guarantee, as much as possible, that she is safe.
I do know the principal was sued a year or two ago for denying a child who's family refused to immunize him/her. While I know this is a completely different issue, the principal kept telling dh that he did not want to be in a position to be sued again. And NOT taking dd for her PA helps this???
One of his points was that the proposed 504 plan I gave him states something to the effect of "the school will provide a PN free table" and that he can't control what happens after school. OK, I know that. Leave the sign on and wipe it down before lunch, like you should anyways. But to him, this is just too much verbage. Like has been mentioned in other threads, to write "should provide a PN table" just opens the door to "doesn't entirely have to."
So, I'll have to admit our mistake was giving this man the proposed document in the first place (though he did ask for it when we discussed ways to keep dd safe.)
I would like to push for full 504 as soon as school starts, starting from the beginning - get the 504 designation first, then the written accomodations. Dh is going back to "don't rock the boat too much." (see above and my losing it.) Why the principal thinks his resignation hurts me, I don't know???
I think I will try to call the OCR. It would be good to have a little guidance before hand, not that you all here can't provide alot already. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
BTW, I've been at PA.com for 4 years, and had NO idea until just now that you could scroll thru the posts at the bottom of the screen while replying. Boy, does that make replies easier!
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Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Noah, 7-29-05
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99
Quote:Originally posted by Lori Jo:
[b]BTW, I've been at PA.com for 4 years, and had NO idea until just now that you could scroll thru the posts at the bottom of the screen while replying. Boy, does that make replies easier!
[/b]
I don't know about this option. How do you do it, if you don't mind providing a little tutorial...
When does school start?
When you reply to a post - use your scroll bar on the right (scroll down) to see that there is a split screen.
The bottom half of the screen is the thread that you were viewing. It has it's own scroll bar.
Hope that makes sense. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
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