What to clean with

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 3:03am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

I know this subject has been discussed many times on the board - what cleaners get rid of peanut protein. Finally, someone really did test.

[url="http://www.inbio.com/pdf_files/abstracts/Perry-Arah1.pdf"]http://www.inbio.com/pdf_files/abstracts/Perry-Arah1.pdf[/url]

I have not yet read the entire thing - but what I did read seems to agree with what different people here have said over the years.

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 3:21am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Thanks for posting the link to the full text article.
Comforting in some ways, and eye-opening in others. Very important information.
Having read through this a couple of times, I actually find the more disturbing thing isn't even mentioned in the title of the article... the fact that they tried to detect aerosol and couldn't under simulated situations. I know that many of us on these boards KNOW these reactions occur and have ample anecdotal evidence to suggest it is not psychosomatic. Sooooo... what I have concluded about that is that: 1) it isn't araH1 that causes these reactions or 2) some people react at levels below the detection limit of the analysis. Obviously the latter is probably more worrisome, but also probably more likely.
Just food for thought, I guess. I am glad that someone finally tried it, at least. I wish they had established a detection limit for their method, though, since whatever result you get isn't really meaningful unless you do. (It's the ANALytical chemist in me.... what can I say) Anyway, I also wonder whether heating the protein makes a difference. This certainly seems to be the case for other common anaphylaxis triggers. Maybe they should have tried that too. I'll read the methods and discussion section one more time, more carefully and see if I can't find a discussion of the method's limitations.

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 3:26am
2BusyBoys's picture
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Joined: 09/03/2004 - 09:00

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001931.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001931.html[/url]

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 3:36am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

well, having read the discussion more carefully, I see that my instincts were right on target. LOL!! That's almost exactly what they said, too.
I would point out something that they did not mention, however, and that I only "processed" recently when I was reading through FDA's technical reports about FALCPA... the few studies that have investigated threshold dosing for PA have systematically excluded probably the most sensitive 50% of patients, which most likely includes 90% of posters on these boards. It is also noted by the FDA review panel that the most sensitive patients also tend to have the most severe reactions (very bad news indeed). SO I think it is a critical thing to keep in mind (and a fantastic argument to use for anyone confronted with an authority figure quoting this paper and claiming "it isn't possible, see..."). Just FYI.
One more thing to bear in mind is that this paper looked at just ONE major protein of the 6 or 8 known to elicit allergic sensitization and reactions. The authors talk about that too. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Good for them.
Edited to add: [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img] Next time I'll be real "careful" when I am typing as well. Ooooohhh. I read it real good, though. I promise. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited January 19, 2006).]

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 4:30am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]I would point out something that they did not mention, however, and that I only "processed" recently when I was reading through FDA's technical reports about FALCPA... the few studies that have investigated threshold dosing for PA have systematically excluded probably the most sensitive 50% of patients, which most likely includes 90% of posters on these boards. [/b]
I still haven't read through the whole thing - just looked briefly.
I had [i]assumed[/i] they did scientific lab-type testing for the protein after cleaning. Do you mean that they cleaned and then saw whether or not people reacted to the area? (Maybe I'm reading your post completely wrong?)
I also noticed that it was only peanut - I was disappointed that they didn't also do this for fish, milk, and egg.

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 5:08am
shoshana18's picture
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Joined: 02/02/2005 - 09:00

i find the airborne results interesting. i am so nervous about putting my 3 y/o on an airplane. both of my dd's allergist's (top notch) have discounted airborne reactions as something not to be concerned with. and here is a study agreeing with them. can't say i'm comfortable with the idea of her flying yet, even so. she's never consumed or come in contact with peanuts yet (she was dairy allergic and then we found out through testing that she was PA as well), so i have no idea how sensitive/what kind of reaction to expect.
still, i guess it's good news.

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 4:15pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

oops! I should have been clearer. They did do wipe tests on surfaces. They then did ELISA tests on those samples (this works a bit like a RAST test). Those were mostly below detection limits as well, BUT they do point out that they have not got great information about what this means in practical terms... other than that hand sanitizers aren't worth do-do, and most cleaners seem to do a decent job.
I would NOT interpret this paper to validate the opinion that aerosol reactions "don't happen." The authors are very clear on this point as well. They tried, but they couldn't detect anything at all using the method they developed. In my own opinion as a research scientist this is a good indication you are not using the right tool to measure with.
My additional information was to just point out that conclusions drawn from what is known about what amount of pn can cause reactions is heavily skewed toward the least sensitive PA persons, who also tend to have the least severe reactions (that is sooo unfair!). This according to a published FDA report regarding FALCPA. So if you aren't very sensitive to traces, this paper is good news. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Hope this helps! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 01/19/2006 - 11:52pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Thanks for clarifying. I had visions of all these pa people licking tables. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I'm no scientist but that just didn't seem very accurate.
**********
I think the paper does help with *what to clean with*. Hand-sanitizers don't work (as many of us suspected) but most cleaners with elbow grease do. And, as you said, at least the authors are honest that their tests on aerosol's are not valid.

Posted on: Fri, 01/20/2006 - 6:35am
CDMom's picture
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Joined: 12/30/2005 - 09:00

It is really good to have this information. Thanks for posting it. Now I can tell others for sure that sanitizers don't work.
I am wondering what is different about the dish soap and the wipes...certain chemicals?
As I learn more, I feel I have more ammunition to fight the potential for exposure. I just bought some Wet Ones to use in different situations. Would those work on surfaces or just hands?
Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge with us newbies!
------------------
Jamie - mom to:
Morgan (dd-13) - NKA
Ethan (10) - asthma, enviromental allergies
Carson (5) - PA/TNA/EA/Soy
- enviromental allergies, slight asthma?

Posted on: Fri, 01/20/2006 - 9:45am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Jamie, this is just my own personal opinion, but I think part of the reason the sanitizers don't work is you rub them on, but don't rinse it off.
As for using wipes on tables etc., I do it. I personally prefer the baby wipes. I don't know that they work any better - I just figure with what they are made to clean, they must be powerful. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sat, 01/28/2006 - 3:54am
Momcat's picture
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Joined: 03/15/2005 - 09:00

I think I remember reading in one of these studies that peanut protein was detected in the airfilters of aircraft.
Cathy

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