Teen did not die from peanut kiss: Coroner

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This was just released - it's on the Toronto Star's website:

Teen did not die from peanut kiss: Coroner Mar. 3, 2006. 11:34 AM

SAGUENAY, Que. (CP)

On Mar 3, 2006

So what DID she die from?!? This is the one story that when I tell people, they seem to get the severity of this allergy....I'm floored.

------------------ mom to Ari(5) - severe nut allergies, asthma, you name it - and Maya (8), mild excema

On Mar 3, 2006

Allergic Living magazine has a story about the investigation into her death in the upcoming March issue. The focus of the article is on how difficult it is to pinpoint anaphylaxis as a cause of death - death is often attributed to other causes instead. We won't know why the coroner is so sure it's not the PB sandwich until he releases his final report - I'll be sure to follow-up post the minute I hear it's been released.

On Mar 3, 2006

I'll be interested in hearing what the final results are.

I hope if they declare that it wasn't from the kiss that it isn't too widely publicized. I'm all for the truth about things, but once some people hear this (and we all know someone who falls into this category) it will just help further their disbelief that trace amounts of peanuts can be deadly.

Do let us know what you find out though!

On Mar 3, 2006

Although I do have to add that if it wasn't from the kiss, I will be happy for her boyfriend. How devestating it must have been to be the 'cause' of her death!

On Mar 3, 2006

Sally, that was my very first thought. About her boyfriend.

Cayley's mom, thanks for posting.

On Mar 3, 2006

The French article goes a bit further. The coroner defines anaphylactic shock as : "Un choc anaphylactique se traduit par deux r

On Mar 3, 2006

Hmmm. I wonder if it is just coming down to a matter of semantics? I hope we hear the cause he sites. I also thought how reassuring for her bf, if it were the case it was something else. But was it, or is he splitting hairs on the definition of anaphylaxis? becca

On Mar 3, 2006

Darthcleo, thank you very much.

Please correct me if my bilingual decoding skills are not up to par here, but his explanation seems to me to leave a severe asthmatic mechanism as a possibility, oui? It sounds like he is stating that the "usual" route of anaphylaxis death is either laryngeodema causing respiratory arrest or sudden a BP drop causing cardiac arrest. I don't think asthma would fit either one. And asthma is what the first-hand reports claim Christina thought at the time-- one of her friends reported her digging for an inhaler, if memory serves.

What perplexes me is how he seems to be so certain that her death wasn't peanut induced. It will be interesting to see what the explanation is.

But I will just mention this: I recall specifically reading in two separate research articles that beta-tryptase levels are often NOT ELEVATED in peanut anaphylaxis fatalities. Even when it is very clear what the cause of death was and they get a blood sample at TOD. So if that is his reasoning, the experts will be debunking THAT in a hurry.

But this is just speculation on my part. That would explain why he seems so convinced that her death was not anaphylaxis, however.

More on that:

This article is regarding Jack-Jumper fatalities, [url="http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_12_171201/brown/brown.html"]http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_12_171201/brown/brown.html[/url]

from this same article, please note that:

[i]"Serum mast-cell tryptase level was markedly raised in Patient 4, but only marginally raised in the other two patients tested. The reference range for the technique used in 1995 was < 2

On Mar 3, 2006

I also thought it was interesting that numerous earlier reports said that she had died even though she was given emergency epinephrine immediately. His report says that it was not administered properly if at all.

On Mar 3, 2006

I'm thinking the toxicology report was suspicious. Partying with her friends, she might have taken something that night...

On Mar 3, 2006

Good to hear that she didn't die because of the kiss. Perhaps the family will not want the cause of death to be publicly known if it is not something okay. There's a fine line between desire to know (and now we do know it was not PA related) and respecting the family and the dead child.

How very sad. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 3, 2006

I'm going to suspend judgment until we hear further. I'm troubled by his statements about the allergy associations using this case as an example, and his statement strikes me as rather hostile. It seems strange that he isn't stating the actual cause of death at this point. I think we'll just have to wait and see. Unfortunately, it's on the internet news sites already, so even after the follow up all people are now going to remember is that she didn't really die from her peanut allergy.

On Mar 3, 2006

Although I left this board, someone just emailed me about this thread since I am a physician and asked my opinion. I also am not so sure that anaphylaxis can be 100% ruled out. The history of what happened (apparent asthma attack, then collapsed) is a pretty typical history for anaphylaxis. I think it may turn out to be semantics. If she had not had the apparent asthma attack, I would find it easier to believe that it was not death from anaphylaxis. But you have to look at the whole clinical picture. Based on what I read about this when it happened a few months ago, it clinically looked like anaphylaxis. It was pretty much the same symptoms as what happened to Nathan Walters and Sabrina Shannon (first asthma attack, then losing consciousness). So it will be interesting to see what they say was the cause. If it was drug related (too much partying), it would not have looked like an asthma attack. My dd has had several reactions that have presented as an asthma attack and nothing else. The Van De Kamps reaction was an asthma attack. Lots of times on a post mortem, the cause of death can be worded different ways. This situation may be a cause of death that doesn`t say anaphylaxis, but actually was. (for example, it can say "heart failure" but it could be heart failure due to any number of causes and one would be anaphylaxis). It will be interesting to see what they finally say the cause was. There are reactants that go up after a reaction, but they only stay up for a few hours. I doubt that they drew blood soon enough to even detect those given the circumstances.

On Mar 4, 2006

Well, we've had a very hard time with this story since it broke. It's caused way more harm to my son than good. He can't go anywhere without someone mentioning how EASY it is for him to DIE and referring to this teenager. His 2nd grade classmates talk about it all the time to him. He is a nervous wreck and often won't eat his lunch at school if he gets spooked by their comments.

After a particularly hard day, I just told him that she didn't die of the peanut allergy reaction. I said she was allergic to peanuts, but something else happened that caused her to die. I didn't care if it was a lie or not, I just wanted my little boy to not be so scared. I'm glad to hear that there MIGHT have been another cause and that I can show him this article.

On Mar 4, 2006

When my non-PA DD heard this report that she did not die from kissing her BF after eating PB, she said, "This report is giving people false information re: PA. Even though she may not have died from kissing her BF, common sense should tell people that if you have PA and DO kiss someone who has eaten PB (especially being a teen, KWIM?) then there is a great possibility that you could react. It would be like eating it yourself if it should get in your mouth."

Now, I know what she meant. She felt that people should still be aware of the fact that if someone eats PB and then kiss a PA person, they can still react from the proteins, residue, etc., still in that person's mouth. I think people should still be cautious.

On Mar 4, 2006

Yes, that is a very good point. Regardless of what the "official" pronouncement is, there needs to be an emphasis on how this really is a serious issue.

This girl may or may not have died from peanut exposure, but the point needs to be clear that it very well could have been the cause. If someone with PA kisses someone who recently ate peanut butter, the result can/will be anaphylaxic shock and possibly death.

The last thing we need now is for people to think that PA isn't serious because this girl didn't actually die from anaphylaxis.... and people will really use that against those with peanut allergy (sad, but true)

On Mar 4, 2006

Well said, Triciasmom!

On Mar 4, 2006

As the mother of a teenage daughter this story scared the life out of me. We havent received the latest news over here in the UK yet so would you please keep us updated if anything else if revealed. Many thanks, Jayne.

On Mar 4, 2006

It was on my aol newheader today. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] I have many mixed emotions when it comes to this topic. One being that I am so sorry for this family to have her death splashed all over the headlines once again. The other is I do hope that they find what really caused her death for them & her boyfriend to have closure. Next, I know I educate people about aidan's allergies according to his history & this topic did bring awareness in people's minds that knew him b/c they knew of his pa so I don't think it will impact his care negatively. The truth of the matter is it CAN happen. That of course scares me, but I continue to educate people like I said on his history & hope that it comes across correctly.

Again, My heart goes out to her family. mandi

On Mar 4, 2006

[b]Well said, Triciasmom![/b]

I agree totally!!!!

On Mar 4, 2006

Carefulmom, I didn't realize you had "left" the board. Were you taking a break or you had decided not to come back?

Kim M., also good to see you in this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Corvallis Mom: [b]Darthcleo, thank you very much.

But I will just mention this: I recall specifically reading in two separate research articles that beta-tryptase levels are often NOT ELEVATED in peanut anaphylaxis fatalities. Even when it is very clear what the cause of death was and they get a blood sample at TOD. So if that is his reasoning, the experts will be debunking THAT in a hurry.

But this is just speculation on my part. That would explain why he seems so convinced that her death was not anaphylaxis, however.

More on that:

This article is regarding Jack-Jumper fatalities, [url="http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_12_171201/brown/brown.html"]http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/175_12_171201/brown/brown.html[/url]

from this same article, please note that:

[i]"Serum mast-cell tryptase level was markedly raised in Patient 4, but only marginally raised in the other two patients tested. The reference range for the technique used in 1995 was < 2

On Mar 5, 2006

I don't typically throw my 2 cents in until all the final hoo-ha clears, but in this I'm going to have to vote for symantics also. It seems like it would be if someone suffered a huge head injury, then fell in the river. The offical cause of death would be drowning, but that certainly would not be what precipitated the whole event.

I agree the cornoner sounded a little defensive in that sound bite. Maybe taken out of context, maybe really trying to put the whole FA community in it's place.

Either way, it is tragic. Tragic whether the PB really did it or not. Tragic for the girl's family and the boyfriend.

I also think (selfishly) that less people will pay attention to the follow up story than they did to the initial one. We were also benefitting by people finally getting it that PA is deadly.

------------------ Lori Jo,

Rose, 7-31-02, PA Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99

On Mar 5, 2006

Maybe they were experimenting with drugs... she reacted badly, and to try to cover it up, the teens made up the story about the PB?

Maybe it is semantics...

No one will know until they give an official report. I hope they do it soon.

Tara P

On Mar 5, 2006

CNN had this story on last night.

No details, just worded enough so that most any layperson will now be thinking "oh, so peanut allergy is really not all that serious afterall".

GRRRRRRR. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img]

You know they will likely NOT do a followup with any depth.

EB

On Mar 5, 2006

If she were experimenting with drugs, it probably would not have caused the asthma symptoms that she had. It really sounds like anaphylaxis. I agree with the head injury/drowning analogy. I also think it is bad for us. Now people will decide that pa is not so serious, after all. (CSC, yes I have left the board. Only back really on this thread and one other, because I want to know what happened. Other than that, yes, I am gone, driven away would be more accurate. I posted my final post on a thread in Off Topic after being attacked, and haven`t been back to read that thread or any other, except when someone emailed me about a couple of threads here, this being one.)

On Mar 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b](CSC, yes I have left the board. Only back really on this thread and one other, because I want to know what happened. Other than that, yes, I am gone, driven away would be more accurate. I posted my final post on a thread in Off Topic after being attacked, and haven`t been back to read that thread or any other, except when someone emailed me about a couple of threads here, this being one.)[/b]

Wow-I'm so sorry that happened. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

------------------ ============== [b]~Gale~[/b]

On Mar 5, 2006

Careful Mom, I am so sorry you feel this way. I hope that at some point, when you are ready, you come back. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

On Mar 5, 2006

Thank you to both of you.

Here is another article about the death. I am not good at doing links, so I hope this works.

[url="http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1685736&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312"]http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1685736&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312[/url]

Notice how they don`t mention asthma or wheezing as a sign of anaphylaxis. I`ll bet in the end they will say she died due to asthma, which really means due to the pa. I just read yesterday in a medical newpaper that 10% to 20% of fatal pa reactions present as an asthma attack and never have any skin symptoms. I also don`t like the line that she did not use her epi because she was not having a pa reaction. So many people who die from peanut anaphylaxis who have asthma do not use their epi when they should because they think it is only an asthma attack when it is really due to pa. That is the reason Sabrina Shannon did not use her epi and died.

On Mar 5, 2006

Thank you CarefulMom. I too will miss you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Just wanted to add to the fatality list where this "anaphylaxis presenting as asthma" contributed to a delay in appropriate treatement-- Nathan Walters. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

I agree that this sounded very strange coming from a coroner-- he wanted to PREVENT an educational outreach effort?? Kind of came across as grandstanding, but then again, he couldn't have anticipated that the international media would leap on the story a second time. *sigh*

Hopefully this will get some press again when the real story comes out. But I'll bet not.

On Mar 5, 2006

Among other concerns - and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned above - there is no such body as the "Canadian Association of Food Allergies" that he mentions in the article. Such a lot in that piece making those savvy about food allergies go, "Huh?"

Nevertheless, the allergic community will continue - through media and support groups like this - to get the word out that a kiss can still be dangerous, as other mentioned above, regardless of the coroner's findings. Yes, death from anaphylaxis is often attributed to other causes and I, too, question whether that coroner is familiar with the mechanism behind cascading body system failures (i.e., allergic reactions can trigger fatal asthma attacks). Cayley and I were sent home from the ER after her second serious reaction with no EpiPen prescription and the doctor's words ringing in my ears - "It wasn't anaphylaxis because there was no swelling." even though her reaction involved multiple body systems. Just because a doctor is a doctor does not mean he is also fully competent with regard to allergy. The coroner may be just such a doctor, but we'll have to wait and see.

Will update with any news asap.

On Mar 5, 2006

Carefulmom, I was genuinely disappointed and a bit sad when I read that you have decided to leave the board. I know things can get nasty here sometimes. I don't remember to whom some nasty things were directed, but I'm sorry to read that you feel you were the victim of it. Hopefully one day you'll be comfortable coming back. I found your comments to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful. While things sometimes get unpleasant here, most of the time things are good. Hopefully you'll feel at some point that the good again outweighs the bad.

[This message has been edited by Mookie86 (edited March 05, 2006).]

On Mar 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Kim M: [b]I'm going to suspend judgment until we hear further. I'm troubled by his statements about the allergy associations using this case as an example, and his statement strikes me as rather hostile. It seems strange that he isn't stating the actual cause of death at this point.[/b]

My interpretation is that he didn't want the allergy groups to spread information. Think about how foolish they would look and how much credibility is lost if they mount an awareness campaign on an incident that didn't happen as the groups describe? I think it is right that he lets them know.

I am not concerned that he is not giving the full story (I am annoyed, though) I am sure it is a matter of red tape & approvals needed from certain people in the bureaucracies.

Quote:

Originally posted by nomorenutz: [b]I also thought it was interesting that numerous earlier reports said that she had died even though she was given emergency epinephrine immediately. His report says that it was not administered properly if at all. [/b]

People magazine stated that the epi-pen was not given but the ambulance administered epinephrine. All other articles I read were vague but most indicated that she was given epinephrine at some point.

On Mar 5, 2006

I read this article on CNN.com although nothing new. I think they are hiding the exact cause of death to protect both the family and the family of the boyfriend. Hopefully it was not drugs that the girlfriend reacted to. Sometimes illegal and legal drugs can cause analyptic recations for instance an allergy to Tylenol. Don't always think it's food that causes reactions. Read the label on any bottle and it says"if symptoms of a reaction are present to get Medical attention quickly". Why this did not happen is beyond my belief. If she had an Epipen she could have saved herself and gotten her boyfriend to call 911. It did not list if the death was at night or during the day. She could have taken the medicine before bed thinking she would not react and then died in her sleep(hard to prevent). Or she thought she had a flu when in reality it was a reaction.

Just my 2 cents. Sad to say nontheless. I shed a few tears because this young lady had a long life ahead of her.

On Mar 5, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by travelplus: [b]I read this article on CNN.com although nothing new. I think they are hiding the exact cause of death to protect both the family and the family of the boyfriend. Hopefully it was not drugs that the girlfriend reacted to. Sometimes illegal and legal drugs can cause analyptic recations for instance an allergy to Tylenol. Don't always think it's food that causes reactions. Read the label on any bottle and it says"if symptoms of a reaction are present to get Medical attention quickly". Why this did not happen is beyond my belief. If she had an Epipen she could have saved herself and gotten her boyfriend to call 911. It did not list if the death was at night or during the day. She could have taken the medicine before bed thinking she would not react and then died in her sleep(hard to prevent). Or she thought she had a flu when in reality it was a reaction.

Just my 2 cents. Sad to say nontheless. I shed a few tears because this young lady had a long life ahead of her. [/b]

I am saddened as well, but at least that poor boy does not have to feel guilty about his girlfriend's death.

I just checked & the People Magazine article stated that around 3:15 a.m., Deforges & her boyfriend went upstairs to "make Out"

Quote:

[i]from People Mag 12/19/05[/i] "Within minutes of the embrace, according to [another friend in the house,] she came racing down the stairs, yelling, "I need air!" Grabbing an asthma pump from her knapsack, she inhaled deeply. When that failed to ease her breathing, she flung the front door open to gulp fresh air. Within moments she was collapsed on the front step and slipping into a coma. Though an ambulance arrived within minutes and rushed Desforges to a hospital, the teen never regained consciousness. Three days later she died a victim not of an asthma attack, as she and her friends had assumed, but of anaphylaxis, a fatal food-allergy reaction to the traces of peanut butter that lingered in Desmoreaux's mouth, nine hours after he had eaten his toast."

Most of the recent stories about Desforges all seem to be from AP and other wire services so the info at the moment all looks the same. CBC news had slightly more detail:

Quote:

"The reason Desforges didn't use her syringe to give herself a shot of adrenaline is because she didn't have an allergic reaction to peanut butter, Miron said."

Many people suffering from allergies lost confidence in the popular EpiPen when the story came out, Miron said. He says if people question the use of the auto-injector, lives might be in danger." [url="http://www.cbc.ca/montreal/story/qc-peanut20060303.html"]http://www.cbc.ca/montreal/story/qc-peanut20060303.html[/url]

I am assuming this means the coroner believes she didn't have any allergic reaction at all.

Then I found this article, with a little bit more explanation:

Quote:

Quebec teen didn't die from kissing boy who ate peanut butter snack: coroner Canadian Press Published: Friday, March 03, 2006

SAGUENAY, Que. (CP) - A fifteen-year-old girl with a severe peanut allergy did not die from kissing her boyfriend after he ate a peanut butter snack, said local coroner Michel Miron.

The story made headlines around the world and Miron said he wants people to know that a peanut butter sandwich didn't cause the death of Christina Desforges last November.

Miron wouldn't reveal the cause of death in an interview with the Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean Le Quotidien newspaper because he hasn't yet submitted his final report to the provincial coroner's office. He also said he is waiting on some final test results to confirm the cause of death.

He wasn't available on Friday to comment further on the circumstances of the teen's death in this small city, about 250 kilometres north of Quebec City.

A reporter for Le Quotidien, the newspaper that first reported the story, said Friday [b]it was the media that focused on peanut butter as the culprit after ambulance attendants, an emergency room doctor, and the girl's mother suggested it could be the cause due to her allergy.[/b]

"But no one at the scientific level was able to succeed quickly at confirming the cause (of her death)," said Louis Tremblay.

"The proof has now shown that's not what happened," he added.

One media report at the time also said that, along with being allergic to peanut butter, Desforges was also asthmatic.

[url="http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=a42f3195-8838-4f19-ab93-876485935503&k=42149"]http://www.canada.com/topics/news/nation...5935503&k=42149[/url]

[This message has been edited by ElleMo (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Careful Mom, I wanted to send you an email, but it isn't on your profile. Would you email me? Thanks, Stephanie saknjmom

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b]I also don`t like the line that she did not use her epi because she was not having a pa reaction. So many people who die from peanut anaphylaxis who have asthma do not use their epi when they should because they think it is only an asthma attack when it is really due to pa. That is the reason Sabrina Shannon did not use her epi and died.[/b]

Also, didn't the paramedics give her epinephrine? I'd really like to know this coroner's *politics* when it comes to allergies.

Normally, I feel a coroner's report is a very private thing. It is for the family only. In this case, although I feel guilty feeling this way - I hope the entire report is made public. If it is not made public, I think most of us will always have doubts about it.

On Mar 6, 2006

I don't feel the report should be made public if the COD was very clearly something other than asthma or an allergic reaction. Note: I said "very clearly".

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 6, 2006

[url="http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/03/06/peanut.kiss.ap/"]http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/03/06/peanut.kiss.ap/[/url]

[b][i]Coroner: Lack of oxygen, not peanut-butter kiss, killed girl[/b]

Monday, March 6, 2006 Posted: 1724 GMT (0124 HKT)

MONTREAL, Quebec (AP) -- A teenager with a peanut allergy did not die from kissing her boyfriend following his peanut-butter snack, but from a lack of oxygen to her brain, a Quebec coroner said Monday.

Coroner Michel Miron declined to disclose the exact cause of death because he has yet to submit his final report to the provincial coroner's office, but he told The Associated Press he hoped to end the "phobia" provoked by the case, which drew global media coverage.

Christina Desforges, 15, died in a Quebec hospital in November. Officials at the time had said that doctors were unable to treat her allergic reaction to a peanut-laced kiss from her boyfriend the previous weekend.

Allergists described the case as being rare and worrisome.

"Elements of the investigation tell us peanut butter was not responsible," Miron told the AP. Miron said clinical indicators have eliminated peanut as the cause for her death and said it appeared the girl suffered from "cerebral anoxia," or lack of oxygen to the brain, which caused serious damage.

Miron said he could not discuss reports that the girl suffered from asthma and believed she was having an attack before her collapse.

Symptoms of peanut allergies can include hives, plunging blood pressure and swelling of the face and throat, which can block breathing.

Miron said he felt compelled to speak out to counter incorrect claims that peanut butter was responsible for Christina's death, or that injections used to treat allergic reactions were ineffective.

"People thought the girl had not used her Epipen [Adrenalin shot] properly and families were panicking because they thought it wouldn't always work," he said, insisting that the drug's effectiveness was never in doubt.

Scientific journals also had contacted him, questioning the use of the Adrenalin shot and how it is injected.

"It was necessary to set things straight," Miron said. "The drug wasn't used at all because nobody knew she was allergic," he said, noting the first hospital she was sent to did not have her records.

Miron said the girl and her boyfriend kissed, but many hours after he ate the peanut-butter snack. By then he had ingested other foods such as popcorn and beer.

The saliva generated in the process also would have cleansed his mouth before the kiss, Miron said.[/i]

------------------ Jana

[url="http://www.seattlefoodallergy.org"]www.seattlefoodallergy.org[/url]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted: [b][url]http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/03/06/peanut.kiss.ap/[/url] Coroner: Lack of oxygen, not peanut-butter kiss, killed girl

Monday, March 6, 2006 Posted: 1724 GMT (0124 HKT) [/b]

[b]COME AGAIN??????? WHAT THE ________. [/b] [i]SO PRAY TELL ME, HOW DOES (OF THE MANY WAYS) ANAPHYLAXIS CAUSE DEATH???[/i]

SEMANTICS INDEED.

my father died from blood loss, cardiovascular collapse, myocardial infarction, lack of oxygen, respiratory depression, and ultimately from acidosis, but [i]he still died from a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurism.[/i]

Possibly the end stage lung cancer detected on the same CT used to diagnose his ruptured AAA might even be considered [i]contributory[/i] to his death.

But hey, who am I?? I'm an idiot.

[i]no advice[/i]. who needs it when there are "experts".

edit to add link.

General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I do not guarantee the accuracy, currentness, or content of the link in this post.

[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

it appeared the girl suffered from "cerebral anoxia," or lack of oxygen to the brain, which caused serious damage.

Is it just me? Without another cause being explained I can't help it - lack of oxygen to the brain [i]can[/i] be caused by anaphylaxis. Is it just me?

I react to my husband's sweat [i]days[/i] after he has eaten my allergens.

**********

csc, I admit my feelings probably are not proper. I admit I feel guilty about it. But, if the coroner says it is "very clearly" something else I just don't know that I will completely feel at ease about it. On the other hand, if her family (after having time to see the report and discuss with a doctor) if they publicly say "it was definitely not anaphylaxis" then I would accept it from them.

On Mar 6, 2006

I hope the cause of her death was NOT peanut allergy. I hope that we find out that the reason the epipen didn't work was because it was NOT used! I for one would feel a lot better than feeling that the pens don't always work and that hours after eating peanut butter my child could still be at risked from a kiss from that person. It may be she sufferred a severe asthma attack that was not at all related to her peanut allergy.

On Mar 6, 2006

I'm bewildered by the coroner's statements and wondering if he has some anti-foodallergy axe to grind.

If she died from a lack of oxygen, and witnesses said she was using her asthma inhaler, and difficulty breathing/asthma is a symptom of anaphylaxis, how can we be sure the asthma attack/difficulty breathing *wasn't* from the boyfriend's peanut butter?

It sounds to me like this coroner would say someone died from bloodloss without bothering to mention the little detail of the person being beheaded...

--Debbie

On Mar 6, 2006

"If she were experimenting with drugs, it probably would not have caused the asthma symptoms that she had."

I disagree carefulmom (sorry if that is the wrong username), its quite a common reaction when "recreational" drug are used/abused. Not sure where you are gettin your information from but if you like I could site a number of journal articles showing this is certainly a very common reaction in those with asthma.

On Mar 6, 2006

I wasnt going to post anything, but then I changed my mind because sometimes when I read this thread it bothers me...I may be reading things in the wrong "tone", but its almost like some of you WANT this girl to have died from a PA reaction. It just seems like no matter what the coroner says now, people here will still beleive it was a PA issue. Even if that has no backing and the media blew it out of control. Maybe it really was JUST an asthma attack, and not one caused by PA????? I know I had asthma pretty bad when I was younger and I could have made myself have an attack at anytime....I'm not saying she did that, I'm just saying she was 15 and was kissing her BF....there are alot of hormones going on there and that can cause a little bit of anxiety if you know what I mean.

I'm not saying it was or wasnt a PA issue. I'm just saying people should be disappointed if its not. I also feel they shouldnt have to release the final information to the public out of respect for the family, unless they choose to do so.

This is just my little opinion..back to work.

Tim

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by TarynsDad: [b]I wasnt going to post anything, but then I changed my mind because sometimes when I read this thread it bothers me...I may be reading things in the wrong "tone", but its almost like some of you WANT this girl to have died from a PA reaction. [/b]

nope. can only speak for myself. my "tone" is that I'm confused. It almost sounds like the logic is anaphylaxis is being ruled out simply because someone might have died from "lack of oxygen". Maybe I'm hearing wrong. Maybe I'm off in what confuses me.

anyone?

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by SallyL: [b]I'll be interested in hearing what the final results are.

I hope if they declare that it wasn't from the kiss that it isn't too widely publicized. I'm all for the truth about things, but once some people hear this (and we all know someone who falls into this category) it will just help further their disbelief that trace amounts of peanuts can be deadly.

Do let us know what you find out though![/b]

Oh my...I disagree with you and I hope that if the death was not related to PA that it is given as much attention as all the media gives and contributes to what I feel is peanut allergy hysteria. I certainly agree and know that the PA issue needs to be addressed...however, I work as a nurse in a school and I absolutely don't believe that everyone that states that their child has a PA actually has one. I might add that all precautions are taken with these children per doctors instructions and the FAAN. I've had parents reveal to me well into the school year after making all the necessary accomodations and staff being an absolute wreck, that their child isn't really allergic, they just don't LIKE p-butter. I think people are getting really weird about this whole thing and sometimes the expectation for the school is simply not reasonable. The law asks us to do what is reasonable. Making a school peanut free is not reasonable. It opens the school to liability by virtue of the fact that no place can be peanut free. We can state that but we have no control over the fact that the building is used 24/7 and we don't know what's happening outside the regular school time frame. Anyway....just needed to respond!

On Mar 6, 2006

[b]I've had parents reveal to me well into the school year after making all the necessary accomodations and staff being an absolute wreck, that their child isn't really allergic, they just don't LIKE p-butter. I think people are getting really weird about this whole thing and sometimes the expectation for the school is simply not reasonable.[/b]

I'm sorry to hear you've had these experiences. Obviously, the parents who did what you described were wrong. However, I certainly hope you're not going to view every peanut allergic child through that frustrated viewpoint.

Any child who is truly peanut allergic needs some precautions in place to help them from having a potentially life-threatening reaction, and for treating one if an accident occurs. Do you agree with this?

I'm not going to debate about the term peanut-free...I don't think this is the right thread for that discussion. Meg

On Mar 6, 2006

This statement of the coroner`s that it was lack of oxygen and not anaphylaxis makes no sense. One of the things that happens in anaphylaxis is that if you can`t breathe, then oxygen cannot go to your brain. So if she really did die due to lack of oxygen, then anaphylaxis cannot be ruled out as a cause. There are many causes of lack of oxygen to the brain. An asthma attack or anaphylaxis would be two of them. Corvallis Mom, I agree about Nathan. They did not use the epi until one to two hours after the reaction started because it looked like an asthma attack.

Saknjmom, I am emailing you right now.

On Mar 6, 2006

paulette816, Can I ask why you are on this list if you don't feel peanut allergy is as serious as most people here do (and those in the medical field as well)? Just curious.

------------------ mom to Ari(5) - severe nut allergies, asthma, you name it - and Maya (8), mild excema

On Mar 6, 2006

Taryn's Dad & Paulette,

I'm going to take a stab at explaining some of the emotions or "tones" you're reading. As parents, I know my husband and I felt a little relieved when people approached us after Christina's death. Certainly we were very saddened by her death, but relieved because we felt our son would be a little safer when around these people. It was like a light bulb went off for them. They connected that yes, the peanut allergy can be deadly.

I wouldn't have any problem at all if the coroner came out and gave an explicit reason that had no connection to anaphylaxis at all as the reason for her death. But I do have a problem if the reason could be connected to anaphylaxis, and he's coming out and saying there was no connection. That would be misleading to peanut allergic individuals and the general public.

And based on the latest information, as it's being given, lack of oxygen to the brain could certainly be a result of anaphylaxis as I understand it. Meg

On Mar 6, 2006

Maybe it did turn a lightbulb on, and I agree, maybe it did start to make people aware...but does it truly make a huge difference if the coroner never comes out and gives the public an answer?????

Sometimes I just think theres more to it that a "cover up" or "conspiracy". I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is protecting the family from embarrassment.

Then again I could be wrong all the way around. I just feel at some point its good to mention the other side for the sake of argument. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

This was edited because I couldnt spell embarrassment.

Tim

[This message has been edited by TarynsDad (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

I understand how some would not want to find out that this girl died of something other than peanut allergic reaction and agree that has caused a lot of people to take our children's allergies a more seriously.

I do hope though that they find out that her death was not caused by her allergy, for myself and my daughter and our friends and families sakes. This has caused a lot of real fear on our parts, especially the story that the epi-pen didn't work or wasn't administered in time, etc.

I for one will waituntil the full report comes out but I really don't think the coroner would make such a statement if he didn't have some information not previously disclosed.

The fact that she had a peanut allergy and the fact that her boyfriend kissed her 9 hours after eating peanut butter doesnt necessarily mean that is what killed her or caused her asthma attack.

Alcohol, drugs, or any number of allergens could have caused such a reaction. I don't know very much about her medical condition other than she had a peanut allergy. Does anyone know if she sufferred from other allergies?

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by paulette816: [b] I might add that all precautions are taken with these children per doctors instructions and the FAAN. [/b]

Personally? In my child's highly individual, personal, and unique situation, [i]my child's physician overrules FAAN[/i].

I mean, does the medical and research community use FAAN as their compass, or is it the other way around?

My physician has never mentioned [i]FAAN[/i] to me. He has, however, used many reputable and professional journal studies, his expertise, and professional education in certain decision making. He also collaberates with other disciplines, including myself. In addition, I feel he values my opinion not only as a nurse, but as [i]a parent[/i] of *my specific* food allergic child. Not once have I ever felt condescended to nor held hostage to certain positions of FAAN by my physician.

It's a non-issue.

Besides, "reasonable" is a spectrum issue. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img] It's also very much, IMPHO, determined by what is [i]possible[/i], not [i]popular[/i]. Besides, my child has an IEP to cover his LTFA, not a 504. The words "reasonable" have never been mentioned. What is *necessary*, tho, often is. Ever see the Zirkel letter?

there's a link to it in this thread:

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001477.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001477.html[/url]

But hey, that's not advice, that's just me, personally. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 6, 2006

I agree tarynsdad, it may well have been that there was no other indication that her peanut allergy caused her death other than that she was severly allergic to peanuts and her boyfriend ate peanut butter hours before.

I do not agree with paulette however as I have never met anyone who "pretended" their child had a peanut allergy just becaues they didn't like peanuts and cannot imagine why anyone would go through the trouble we all go through to keep our children healthy and alive if it weren't absolutely necessary.

On Mar 6, 2006

It seems very strange to me paulette that your school or you as a nurse would actually go by anthing but federal/state/local law/ordinance and the child's doctors instructions on how to keep the child safe, I have never heard of a school "complying" with FAAN. What state/province do you work in?

[This message has been edited by mom2two (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by that'smetrying: [b]paulette816, Can I ask why you are on this list if you don't feel peanut allergy is as serious as most people here do (and those in the medical field as well)? Just curious.

[/b]

I don't know where I said that in my writings. In fact I said I certainly do know and agree that the Pa issue needs to be addressed...sentence 2. I don't understand your interpretation at all. I'm on the list because I do take it seriously and am obligated by my profession to keep abreast of ALL info available...pro and con.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mommyofmatt: [b][b]I've had parents reveal to me well into the school year after making all the necessary accomodations and staff being an absolute wreck, that their child isn't really allergic, they just don't LIKE p-butter. I think people are getting really weird about this whole thing and sometimes the expectation for the school is simply not reasonable.[/b]

I'm sorry to hear you've had these experiences. Obviously, the parents who did what you described were wrong. However, I certainly hope you're not going to view every peanut allergic child through that frustrated viewpoint.

Any child who is truly peanut allergic needs some precautions in place to help them from having a potentially life-threatening reaction, and for treating one if an accident occurs. Do you agree with this?

I'm not going to debate about the term peanut-free...I don't think this is the right thread for that discussion. Meg[/b]

sentence 2 and 3 should answer your question...did you not read the FAAN/doctors orders part

On Mar 6, 2006

I read the "FAAN/doctors orders" part and I am still confused as to why you are not going by the individual IEP or 504 plans if you are in the U.S.

[This message has been edited by mom2two (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by paulette816: [b] sentence 2 and 3 should answer your question...did you not read the FAAN/doctors orders part[/b]

FAAN does not, and never has written "orders" for my child.

[i]I doubt I even will allow them to either.[/i] But, hey, that's just me.

Besides, I mean, where do they have the prescriptive authority to do that?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

He's not even in a client/physician relationship with them. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

On Mar 6, 2006

I am extremely curious as to why paulette thinks she/her school would somehow escape liability by going by what FANN, which has NO legal standing let alone medical, says is recommended with respect to food allergies but doesnt seem to care what the child's IEP or 504 requires.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mom2two: [b]I agree tarynsdad, it may well have been that there was no other indication that her peanut allergy caused her death other than that she was severly allergic to peanuts and her boyfriend ate peanut butter hours before.

I do not agree with paulette however as I have never met anyone who "pretended" their child had a peanut allergy just becaues they didn't like peanuts and cannot imagine why anyone would go through the trouble we all go through to keep our children healthy and alive if it weren't absolutely necessary. [/b]

Believe it...when you work in a school you see and hear everything and yes this did in fact happen

On Mar 6, 2006

you mentioned "parents" as if this were a common occurrance paulette. or at least more than ONE parent doing this. I don't doubt that there is some crazy parent out there pretending her child has peanut allergies although didnt't you get an epipen for this child which would have to have been prescribed by the child's doctor? Don't you have the forms that this child's doctor filled out in order to have the school make the accomidations? Your story does not ring true at all paulette. I am done with this discussion.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mom2two: [b]I read the "FAAN/doctors orders" part and I am still confused as to why you are not going by the individual IEP or 504 plans if you are in the U.S.

[This message has been edited by mom2two (edited March 06, 2006).][/b]

where do I say I'm not going by that?

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mom2two: [b]you mentioned "parents" as if this were a common occurrance paulette. or at least more than ONE parent doing this. I don't doubt that there is some crazy parent out there pretending her child has peanut allergies although didnt't you get an epipen for this child which would have to have been prescribed by the child's doctor? Don't you have the forms that this child's doctor filled out in order to have the school make the accomidations? Your story does not ring true at all paulette. I am done with this discussion.[/b]

I'm not. I'd like to see an answer. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

and hey, just pointing out, how could a parent who [i]pretends[/i] their child has a peanut allergy be a pa parent anyway? don't ya have to have a child with a pa allergy *for real* to be one? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] So, I don't see the relevance to the accommodations a parent of a child with a *real* allergy would be asking for. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Red herring, I mean.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] FAAN does not, and never has written "orders" for my child.

[i]I doubt I even will allow them to either.[/i] But, hey, that's just me.

Besides, I mean, where do they have the prescriptive authority to do that?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

He's not even in a client/physician relationship with them. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

[/b]

I don't know what post you all are reading with all the spins you are putting on what I had to say. I never said we COMPLIED with the FAAN. Didn't any of you see the doctor's orders part? The allergist most of our kids use is Dr. Barry Asman from Pittsburgh, Pa. His are the orders that are carried out. He also suggests as a link, the FAAN for anyone that wants further information. We utilize some of those guidelines in the school setting...THEY ARE SECONDARY TO HIS ORDERS!!!! For Mother of 2...I actually had 2 episodes where the said PA child was not so. Don't kill the messenger. Things like this do happen.

On Mar 6, 2006

Paulette,

While I'm sure you're very knowledgeable, I'd appreciate it if you could read these 2 links. Thanks.

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001468.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001468.html[/url]

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001470.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001470.html[/url]

****************************** Sorry folks, back to discussion of coroner's report.

Meg

[This message has been edited by mommyofmatt (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mommyofmatt: [b]Paulette,

While I'm sure you're very knowledgeable, I'd appreciate it if you could read these 2 links. Thanks.

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001468.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001468.html[/url]

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001470.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum8/HTML/001470.html[/url]

****************************** Sorry folks, back to discussion of coroner's report.

Meg

[This message has been edited by mommyofmatt (edited March 06, 2006).][/b]

Thanks....I've already read that information and it seems that the second site/info re: the girl from Quebec is now under scrutiny...I have the AAAAI site bookmarked and read it religiously.

On Mar 6, 2006

First, about the coroner's report and whole kiss question: Seems to me that death from anaphylaxis from the residual peanut would equal "lack of oxygen."

Second, also about the kiss: Many PA adults on the board have posted about having reactions hours, even days after their spouses/partners have indulged in peanut products while away from home (or them), AND my own son had a hives reaction on his cheek from a kiss I gave him 4 hours after eating a PB cookie earlier in the day (even after brushing my teeth). All of that alone tells me that death is possible from a kiss for a severely PA person. I've already discussed with my son the very real possibility that his future girlfriends/wife will have to give up all TN and PN - period.

Last, about a school that just takes a parent's "word" about PA: What's with that? Paulette, did the school see any official medical records/testing results about the kids you mentioned who turned out to not really be allergic?

[This message has been edited by Lam (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Paulette, the "I've had parents..." comment did read as if it had happened on more than one or two occasions. Anyway, your attitutde reveals itself, simply by using the phrases "peanut allergy hysteria" and "I think people are getting really weird about this whole thing>"

I mean, how do you think that comes across? If my school nurse used phrases like that with me(oh, and the not believing every parent that tells you thier child has a PA) we would yank dd from the school and address the comments with his/her superiors at the very least???

Just which parents do you decide to believe, since you do not believe them all, when they claim their child has a life-threatening food allergy? becca

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by becca: [b]Paulette, the "I've had parents..." comment did read as if it had happened on more than one or two occasions. Anyway, your attitutde reveals itself, simply by using the phrases "peanut allergy hysteria" and "I think people are getting really weird about this whole thing>"

I mean, how do you think that comes across? If my school nurse used phrases like that with me(oh, and the not believing every parent that tells you thier child has a PA) we would yank dd from the school and address the comments with his/her superiors at the very least???

Just which parents do you decide to believe, since you do not believe them all, when they claim their child has a life-threatening food allergy? becca[/b]

I believe them all because I have to for liability reasons

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Lam: [b]First, about the coroner's report and whole kiss question: Seems to me that death from anaphylaxis from the residual peanut would equal "lack of oxygen."

Second, also about the kiss: Many PA adults on the board have posted about having reactions hours, even days after their spouses/partners have indulged in peanut products while away from home (or them), AND my own son had a hives reaction on his cheek from a kiss I gave him 4 hours after eating a PB cookie earlier in the day (even after brushing my teeth). All of that alone tells me that death is possible from a kiss for a severely PA person. I've already discussed with my son the very real possibility that his future girlfriends/wife will have to give up all TN and PN - period.

Last, about a school that just takes a parent's "word" about PA: What's with that? Paulette, did the school see any official medical records/testing results about the kids you mentioned who turned out to not really be allergic?

[This message has been edited by Lam (edited March 06, 2006).][/b]

yes the school does believe the parent...it's called LAWSUIT

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by paulette816: [b] I believe them all because I have to for liability reasons[/b]

by the way....the one parent of whom I speak was a physician and her husband was an engineer

On Mar 6, 2006

What leg would the parents have to stand on in a lawsuit? Without proof? We had to supply proof to our school district, not to mention proof of the prescription for the EpiPens my son needs at school.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by paulette816: [b] by the way....the one parent of whom I speak was a physician and her husband was an engineer[/b]

and how does this affect the burden of proof? Wouldn't a physician parent or an engineer parent have to provide the same evidence base as another parent?

On Mar 6, 2006

Paulette, I must say that I don't understand why you used the language you did. Present company considered, I mean. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Obviously, the VAST majority of us are here because we fight this fight and [i]attitudes like the one you espoused[/i], which should (I think) have been fairly obvious. While I am well-accustomed to casual acquaintances thinking that I am probably a Munchausen Mom, I am very saddened that this is also the impression of a medical professional who is charged with protecting children like mine. It is not "hysteria" if it is your reality, let me assure you.

Nurses like you cause a lot of parents like me to homeschool because it is crystal clear what you think is "really true" of peanut allergy. Congratulations for keeping an open mind. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] (sarcasm intended)

And I don't think you read either link very carefully, as the study cited was independent of the tragic death of the young Canadienne.

It is unfortunate that you are so convinced you are "right" that you won't look past your own preconceptions. I have no doubt that you have seen a few parents who are "faking" a serious disability. You should report them, as they are either abusing their children, the system, or both. Seems probable that it isn't restricted to PA. Some of those diabetic kids probably aren't really sick, either, are they? Come to think of it, aren't you [i]obligated[/i] to do that? I mean, a child who has no need to be protected from food allergens shouldn't be carrying epinephrine, should they? I would think that in such cases, the proper authorities should be alerted, as this clearly [i]does[/i] seem Munchausen-like.

But please don't tar us all with that brush. For every parent who wants accommodations that are unwarranted, there are those like me who have NO HOPE of getting a safe-enough school environment without asking everyone else to make changes. Think about the position that places [i]me[/i] in, will you?

There is [i]nothing[/i] unchanged in my life since my daughter nearly died in my arms in an emergency room six years ago. My husband and I both left professorships knowing that we cannot realistically hope to reenter academia. The career that I spent twenty years working to have was gone in an instant, and I don't complain. I chose to have my child. When I hear talk like yours, I am pretty angry. What exactly am I supposed to do with my medically fragile child if you think she should just will herself to be a little less "sensitive?"

I cannot fathom anyone "faking" this. It is like telling a school that your child is ill with cancer or something. Truly, it is sick and you should report them. If you are so sure that they are not being truthful, that is.

I agree-- back on topic. I don't believe that the coroner is being malicious. I think that he is perhaps not an expert on anaphylaxis from foods. That said, he may very well have looked to an inappropriate measure of a serum marker, and not finding it present, decided that this wasn't anaphylaxis. This is merely disengenuous on his part, and may explain the delay while he awaits confirmation of his theory and confirmation from a peer reviewer. But harmful nonetheless, given the attention paid to the entire incident.

I mean, lack of oxygen is usually what causes severe brain damage in anaphylaxis cases that result in permanent disability, as well as those that result in death. Cardiac arrest is one cause of death, but asphyxia is the other. I mean, isn't that what causes asthma deaths as well, when it comes right down to it? And yes, from a pharmacology standpoint, it is certainly possible to have decreased respiration and heart rate from illicit drug use. Even sufficient alcohol can do that. But it really doesn't sound like this was that sort of case, from the witnesses' statements.

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

I mean, my child had a physician's diagnosis and supporting evidence/documentation/criteria. I'd hate to think it would be taken any less seriously than if [i]I were my child's own physician[/i]. Do parents who are physicians or engineers have to provide less documentation than parents who are not??

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mom2two: [b]I hope that we find out that the reason the epipen didn't work was because it was NOT used! [/b]

mom2two - the epipen was NOT used immediately. I think it was eventually used - but none of her friends knew she had an allergy. She did not think she was having an allergic reaction.

There are a lot of questions left - but that much I can help ease your mind with. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by TarynsDad: [b]I wasnt going to post anything, but then I changed my mind because sometimes when I read this thread it bothers me...I may be reading things in the wrong "tone", but its almost like some of you WANT this girl to have died from a PA reaction.[/b]

I think you might be reading things in the wrong "tone". What I want is the truth.

I'm an adult in a stable relationship. My kids don't have food allergies. (They do have other allergies, some of which could be life-threatening, but so far not to foods.) But, through the internet I have gotten to *know* a lot of kids with food allergies. I know by personal experience that it is very possible to have a very serious reaction to what someone else eats - when you are *involved* with that someone. My reaction wasn't anaphylactic, but it was quite serious. And I didn't swallow anything. I absorbed sweat through my pores. How bad would my reaction have been if I had been *physically involved* that night?

So, what I want - desperately want - is the truth. Because [b]if[/b] Christina died because of kissing someone that ate pb, it is very important for that knowledge to be there for kids growing up with food allergies. It makes no difference in my life personally - but I think it does make a difference for the kids. I just want the truth.

On Mar 6, 2006

paulette, when someone asked why you weren't going by 504 or IEP you stated "Who said I wasn't". Well doesn't your school district require medical documentation that a student has a life threatening allergy [b]before[/b] they make accomodations and 504 plans? That ought to weed out the lying parents.

As far as FAAN goes, it really ticks me off that they are viewed as [b]the[/b] authority! I'd like to see Anne Munoz Furlong's medical degree. Last I checked she has no medical training whatsoever. Just a parent who formed an organization and now has some right to claim her feelings and opinions are the ones all schools should follow.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Corvallis Mom: [b]Paulette, I must say that I don't understand why you used the language you did. Present company considered, I mean. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Obviously, the VAST majority of us are here because we fight this fight and [i]attitudes like the one you espoused[/i], which should (I think) have been fairly obvious. While I am well-accustomed to casual acquaintances thinking that I am probably a Munchausen Mom, I am very saddened that this is also the impression of a medical professional who is charged with protecting children like mine. It is not "hysteria" if it is your reality, let me assure you.

Nurses like you cause a lot of parents like me to homeschool because it is crystal clear what you think is "really true" of peanut allergy. Congratulations for keeping an open mind. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] (sarcasm intended)

And I don't think you read either link very carefully, as the study cited was independent of the tragic death of the young Canadienne.

It is unfortunate that you are so convinced you are "right" that you won't look past your own preconceptions. I have no doubt that you have seen a few parents who are "faking" a serious disability. You should report them, as they are either abusing their children, the system, or both. Seems probable that it isn't restricted to PA. Some of those diabetic kids probably aren't really sick, either, are they? Come to think of it, aren't you [i]obligated[/i] to do that? I mean, a child who has no need to be protected from food allergens shouldn't be carrying epinephrine, should they? I would think that in such cases, the proper authorities should be alerted, as this clearly [i]does[/i] seem Munchausen-like.

But please don't tar us all with that brush. For every parent who wants accommodations that are unwarranted, there are those like me who have NO HOPE of getting a safe-enough school environment without asking everyone else to make changes. Think about the position that places [i]me[/i] in, will you?

There is [i]nothing[/i] unchanged in my life since my daughter nearly died in my arms in an emergency room six years ago. My husband and I both left professorships knowing that we cannot realistically hope to reenter academia. The career that I spent twenty years working to have was gone in an instant, and I don't complain. I chose to have my child. When I hear talk like yours, I am pretty angry. What exactly am I supposed to do with my medically fragile child if you think she should just will herself to be a little less "sensitive?"

I cannot fathom anyone "faking" this. It is like telling a school that your child is ill with cancer or something. Truly, it is sick and you should report them. If you are so sure that they are not being truthful, that is.

I agree-- back on topic. I don't believe that the coroner is being malicious. I think that he is perhaps not an expert on anaphylaxis from foods. That said, he may very well have looked to an inappropriate measure of a serum marker, and not finding it present, decided that this wasn't anaphylaxis. This is merely disengenuous on his part, and may explain the delay while he awaits confirmation of his theory and confirmation from a peer reviewer. But harmful nonetheless, given the attention paid to the entire incident.

I mean, lack of oxygen is usually what causes severe brain damage in anaphylaxis cases that result in permanent disability, as well as those that result in death. Cardiac arrest is one cause of death, but asphyxia is the other. I mean, isn't that what causes asthma deaths as well, when it comes right down to it? And yes, from a pharmacology standpoint, it is certainly possible to have decreased respiration and heart rate from illicit drug use. Even sufficient alcohol can do that. But it really doesn't sound like this was that sort of case, from the witnesses' statements.

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited March 06, 2006).][/b]

When I get a response like yours I get pretty angry too! The comments you make with regard to me are totally baseless...you have no idea who I am and what I am about...it is you that is close minded. I take my job Very seriously and evaluate each child that crosses the threshhold of the nurses office at my school each day...that smallest bump...the tiniest scratch...there are few that love the kids as much...their job as much as me. My rapport with the children and with their parents is exemplary and my superiors would confirm that. I do everything in my power to assess and accomodate the children with special needs and then some. I resent the comment about the diabetic and the other where you say you know how I REALLY feel about peanut allergies. To air my experiences has NOTHING to do with how I feel about PA and to equate my comments with something so absurd shows how narrow your scope is regarding my e-mail. I am permanently leaving this site because of responses like yours.

On Mar 6, 2006

While they may or may not release further info about this case...I agree...its the truth that we all want--even if some may feel it would not help PA awareness. I, too think knowing if indeed, that PA played a role in her death, it would be a very helpful (if not scary) documentation to have in regards to types of reactions/exposure. Either way, its awful that this young lady died--PA related or not...just awful for her family.

And I can only say how saddened I am to see the responses of the school nurse who has posted here. So many parents of PA TNA children pray that--if they are lucky enough to have a nurse in their childs school, that she/he would be somewhat of an ally as opposed to others we deal with daily. She may indeed have 'seen it all', but when you as a parent, have stared at your child in the face while she is slipping away from you because of a single BLESSED PN or TN chunk, trace, or whatever, having a school nurse who 'gets it', learns it, and cares for it, cares for YOUR CHILD, is waaaaaay up there on my top ten list of important things.

sorry , just had to get that out [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ Jill DD, 5, TNA DS, 18 mo. EA, MA

On Mar 6, 2006

I have no reason to believe that you are not a good nurse Paulette, really I don't. Your post I think reflects some thoughts of others we deal with daily who don't 'get it' in regards to FA. And the crazy thing is,...I have no doubt that you probably do... 'get it' after all you are a nurse right? but, parents here will always feel frustration when someone says the kind of things you posted...hysteria and faking it and such...its just really sensitive matters here.

edited***upon re-reading...I meant to say i have no reason to believe you are 'NOT' a good nurse. Good grief...sorry about that! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by lilpig99 (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

[and I absolutely don't believe that everyone that states that their child has a PA actually has one.]

Paulette, these are your words. Whatever you do at your job, whatever you say to the parents' faces, whatever you do because of liabilities, you still have posted what you really feel here. That is scary. You are openly saying you do not believe all cases, so, I ask again, which ones do you pick and choose to believe?! becca

On Mar 6, 2006

I don`t see how Paulette could actually be a school nurse. If she were she would know that by federal law the epi cannot be at school without written consent from the physician. No physician is going to say a child has a life threatening food allergy and needs an epi when the child really doesn`t. Give me a break. About the parent being a physician, that doesn`t change the federal law. When I fill out my dd`s forms for the epipen and zyrtec, I sign under "parent" and her doctor signs under "physician". Although I am an M.D., I am not able to sign the form as physician. If Paulette really were a school nurse, she would know that.

I also agree that the issue is not that we want her death to have been due to pa---of course, we don`t---but the issue is that we want the truth disseminated to the public. And from the description of what happened, that is a classic history for an anaphylactic reaction.

On Mar 6, 2006

I understand wanting the truth and wanting to hear what really happened. I want to know too, however I do not think we "deserve" to know. I think the family comes first, and if they wish to share the final information I would love to hear it. But, in no circumstances do I feel we deserve or have the right to know.

Sheesh, I better watch what I say...you all railed paulette! haha....... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by TarynsDad: [b]I understand wanting the truth and wanting to hear what really happened. I want to know too, however I do not think we "deserve" to know. I think the family comes first, and if they wish to share the final information I would love to hear it. But, in no circumstances do I feel we deserve or have the right to know.

[/b]

I'm not saying we do or we don't, but the fact remains that, for example, there was a multipage spread in People magazine putting this story "out there". Personally?....privacy is something best maintained from the get go. It's difficult to reclaim after the fact. But hey, that may just be my neurotic self. I could be wrong.

On Mar 6, 2006

Well, the coroner has made statements that make it rather unclear that it wasn't PA related. I mean lack of oxygen to the brain is so vague. from what? I do respect the privacy of the family, but perhpas he can answer to why he is so certain it is not PA, with pointed questions, since he has been so quick to say so publickly. He can do all but disclose her cause of death, but wouldn't a drop in BP(severe), swollen airway, fluid filled lungs, all cause decreased oxygen to the brain?

I respect the right to privacy, but it is bothersome how public it was when she died of PA, that it seems that now it should be failry addressed otherwise. I would be happy to know, for sure, PA did not cause her death. It would restore some sense of security I have lost, if it were true it were something else. I know traces can be dangerous, but the time span in this case was distressing. becca

On Mar 6, 2006

TarynsDad, duck and weave!!!

Seriously though, I understand what you are saying. The family has been through what is our worst nightmare. They do have a right to privacy.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by becca: [b]I respect the right to privacy, but it is bothersome how public it was when she died of PA, that it seems that now it should be failry addressed otherwise.[/b]

[i]say it isn't so.[/i] privacy can be that way.

On Mar 6, 2006

(edited post) I was going to just assume Paulette was a troll... but I don't think so. (Which is more distressing yet.)

Paulette has been on the boards exactly once before. She really doesn't seem to want to come for information so much as affirmation that all the PA parents she knows are total Wackos. [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/005342.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/005342.html[/url]

If she took "offense" at any of what I wrote, well, I can't really understand what would have made her "angry" in my statements to her. I was quite serious when I said she should report parents who are deliberately practicing such deception, if they truly exist. I don't think they do, personally. No more than the "fake diabetic" kids exist. I mean, come on! She comes on to an on-line support board and immediately posts about PA parents being merely "hysterical" and expects- what?? I do notice that she has an e-mail address on her profile. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I too am only hoping that the inquiry makes public what was so definitively NOT anaphylaxis about her death. Because so far, I really haven't seen it.

But if her family simply says "It was not her peanut allergy" then that is good enough for me. They've easily been through enough for several lifetimes at this point. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/005342.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/005342.html[/url]

On Mar 6, 2006

momma2boys you beat me to the punch -- have been following along, and also wondered, found the same thread

On Mar 6, 2006

She is not a troll, she is a school nurse, has posted here in the past, using words like hysteria and wierd in her discussion here about PA. I find that alot more upsetting than a troll.

In fact, she used the hysteria word way back when too. becca.

On Mar 6, 2006

I'm duckin' I'm weavin'

Well I do have to agree with the fact that it was so public to begin with that we should get a truthfull answer.....let me repeat...we SHOULD get a tuthful answer. I dont think we deserve or have to right to demand an answer, but I would like to know...just for the awareness.

Tim

On Mar 6, 2006

And you just know whenever someone stomps off in a huff never to return they are reading! It is narcissism at its best! becca

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by becca: [b]If my school nurse used phrases like that with me(oh, and the not believing every parent that tells you thier child has a PA) we would yank dd from the school and address the comments with his/her superiors at the very least???[/b]

Well said, Becca. And also see to it that the nurse was reprimanded for making comments like that! That's not very professional now, is it?

In my school, I can't say for sure, but I don't see a particular substitute anymore that my DD had once for failure to read the sub folder and adhere to the plans in place to keep her safe.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by becca: [b]And you just know whenever someone stomps off in a huff never to return they are reading! It is narcissism at its best! becca [/b]

SAY IT ISN'T SO. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

(music in the background: "are ya ready boots? start walkin......!")

On Mar 6, 2006

Corvallis Mom, I don't really think this is a troll. I did a search. Her posting is consistent with her original question when she signed on here.

If you read Paulette's posts, from the beginning she referred to *doctor's instructions*. Not just FAAN. Lot's of people here refer people to FAAN. When someone says they went there - they get jumped on. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img] She also DID say that she assumes the information is correct - unless she has a reason to believe otherwise. (That's not her exact wording - so please don't rip it apart - I've paraphrased.)

Also, I have to say, I have PA, and I have dealt with someone who lied about it to get what they wanted. Meaning - a parent lieing about it. The child did have pa - but the parent lied about previous reactions. It's a horrible thing to think someone would do - but it's true.

*********

[i]Looking desperately for my little chair. I think I'm about to be sent to the corner.[/i]

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by TarynsDad: [b]I understand wanting the truth and wanting to hear what really happened. I want to know too, however I do not think we "deserve" to know. I think the family comes first, and if they wish to share the final information I would love to hear it. But, in no circumstances do I feel we deserve or have the right to know. [/b]

I so much want to feel the way you do. Part of me does feel that way. But, so much publicity has surrounded this that at this point, I do think we have a *right* to know. (I don't think the family looked for any publicity on this either. That's what makes it even worse. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] I think they were just thrown into it.)

On Mar 6, 2006

Hi My name is Debbie (everyone: Hi Debbie) I suffer from peanut allergy hysteria. I like getting really weird at my so called "peanut allergic" son's school. I make school staff an absolute wreck. per the faan and I just don't like peanut butter.

disclaimer: If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

On Mar 6, 2006

Your probably correct, maybe we do have a right to know and maybe my thinking is way off....I mean, I am one of the only guys here so I am fighting an uphill battle most of the time.. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Naaa Im kidding, but maybe I am way off....I just wont be hurt or disappointed to not hear the outcome because they want it private.

Is it baseball season yet??? sheesh.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

speaking of...how am I going to take my little girl to a game?? oh man [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] thats another topic though.

Tim

On Mar 6, 2006

The thing is that if they wanted it private, then the coroner should have kept it private. But by making a public statement that it was not due to pa, he made it public and opened up a whole can of worms. I think logic would indicate that if he is going to say it wasn`t anaphylaxis, then the public is going to say well then what was it? You can`t have it both ways. If you want it private, then keep it private and don`t make public statments.

About Paulette, I am still bewildered as to how a school nurse could not know that a doctor`s written permission has to be given to have an epi at school. Truly bewildered. So I can only conclude that these kids that she says are not pa really are pa, otherwise how would they have epis at school which require written consent from a doctor? Not to mention that a 504 requires a written statement from the doctor documenting the medical condition.

On Mar 6, 2006

[b]TarynsDad[/b] Sounds like a good reason to get a big screen TV, or one of the new HDTV's.

From the articles, it sounds like the coroner may just be dealing with semantics. But whatever her cause of death, it is a learning point for all teens, and grownups with FA and/or asthma to let their peers know. Not anything to be shy about. (see my post under Adults Living with PA) [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum24/HTML/000190.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum24/HTML/000190.html[/url]

[This message has been edited by Daisy (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

Anyone know what the privacy laws are regarding autopsy reports?

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b]About Paulette, I am still bewildered as to how a school nurse could not know that a doctor`s written permission has to be given to have an epi at school. Truly bewildered.[/b]

Quote:

Originally posted by paulette816: [b]I might add that all precautions are taken with these children per doctors instructions [/b]

**********

I do not agree with most of what Paulette has said. But her first post refers to doctors instructions.

On Mar 6, 2006

I would think (and I am not sure plus it is Canada), but here in the U.S. I would assume it is "Protected Health Information" and falls under HIPAA. I would not give out a cause of death on my patient without written consent from the appropriate family member. To me that is logical. I cannot even confirm that someone is my patient due to privacy laws. The laws are very very strict. But maybe it is different in Canada.

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by momma2boys: [b]Anyone know what the privacy laws are regarding autopsy reports?[/b]

I don't think they are normally kept private. However, when there is extreme public interest it is sometimes. Normally reporters can get a copy just by requesting them.

However, as this is such a public case, I would think requests will not automatically be granted. (Don't worry momma2boys - I didn't think you were planning to request it.) It might still be released to reporters - I'm not sure.

On Mar 6, 2006

Carefulmom, I'm not sure, but I think the laws would be a bit different for a coroner.

I'm trying to think about death reports in the news. When it is a very high profile case, usually the reporters get the information from a representative of the family. But, what about other cases? Do the reporters also get their information that way?

Edited to add: Because I've possibly put myself in the line of fire in this thread, I wanted to be clear, that my first sentence this post is serious. I'm not being sarcastic. I do [i]think[/i] the law might be different, but I'm not sure.

[This message has been edited by AnnaMarie (edited March 06, 2006).]

On Mar 6, 2006

It just feels to me like it would violate privacy laws. But I don`t know that for sure. I would not give out that kind of information for ethical reasons, whether it is legal or illegal. So maybe I am just thinking about what I would do, if it were my patient. It seems wrong, so I am guessing it violates privacy laws. I cannot legally give out any other information about a patient, so it seems that would be the same for autopsy reports (just like blood test results, etc).

On Mar 6, 2006

I don't know what the law is but I think it is wrong that we have such strict privacy laws yet they would end the instant you die and anyone can find out what killed you.

I don't feel that anyone but my family, and those they chose to disclose it to, have the right to know my cause of death (which, knock on wood, will happen far, far in the future).

On Mar 6, 2006

Just did a search and their is a Canadian Coroners Act, but I couldn't find anything to do with privacy in there.

On Mar 6, 2006

Paulette really is a school nurse, which is so very very scary. If you Google her, you'll eventually find her in an elementary school just outside of Pittsburgh. She sounds very dedicated to making sure she does what is required of her by law, but I shudder when I think of her underlying opinion toward a PA student. Hysteria??? Is this the person I want when my child is minutes from death? I think not.

(BTW, hi everybody! I guess her comments were enough to draw me out of lurkdom to make my first official post!)

On Mar 6, 2006

Privacy is pretty legally guarded here inthe US, by both ethics and laws. LIke carefulmom, I would never share anything about my treatment of a client with anyone, unless the client gave me permission. I am not a doctor, but the same ethics and laws regarding privacy are there, and they have recently, in my state, become much more specific.

So, I do not think any info can be forced to be shared. I would imagine it will all have to be approved by the family, and has been to date. Just a hunch. If something becomes criminal, I think everything changes. But this cryptic release of info has my mind going all sorts of places I cannot even type here. How did she get deprived of oxygen? My mind can go in alot of differing directions. For the boyfriend's sake, who she was alone with at 3am, I would hope we all find out. And I am not just thinking about what he ate. So, it may be in the loved ones' best interests to go public once it is all figured out. becca

On Mar 6, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] Is it just me? Without another cause being explained I can't help it - lack of oxygen to the brain [i]can[/i] be caused by anaphylaxis. Is it just me?

I react to my husband's sweat [i]days[/i] after he has eaten my allergens.

[/b]

you know - I hesitate to bring this up, but it's been brought up in the adult's forum. Since AnnaMarie mentioned the sweat thing...and I once reacted to my boyfriend's, uh, "secretion" internally (but not digested), that *maybe* that whole theory of how peanut protein can be carried through and released in bodily fluids has something to do with it? I've posted elsewhere about this and have gotten an allergist' opinion and posted that. It's possible...peanut protein travels in breast milk, it can also travel in other bodily fluids.

Though, I hate to speculate, I had to post, and after seeing AnnaMarie's post, it felt like an appropriate time.

Adrienne

------------------ 30-year old survivor of severe peanut/tree nut allergy

On Mar 6, 2006

momma2boys, you asked about coroner's reports --- accessibility --- I found this:

[url="http://www.mpss.jus.gov.on.ca/english/pub_safety/office_coroner/coroner_how.html"]http://www.mpss.jus.gov.on.ca/english/pub_safety/office_coroner/coroner_how.html[/url]

I don't know if that is definitive, but the information that I have been able to find, regarding Coroner's reports suggests, that under Freedom of Information Acts -- in Canada and the US, they are public records.

On Mar 7, 2006

Anyone,just got a call can't find the news

from what was told to me it was lackof oxagen/asthma,someone will send me the new story.

------------------ Love this site Synthia

On Mar 7, 2006

[url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186996,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186996,00.html[/url]

so now I'm getting this "tone" that just because the boyfriend may have eaten or drank something after the peanut butter snack, a reaction to peanut could be ruled out?????

Odd that I've heard the food allergic community has a tendency to stretch things a bit, because I'm getting the feeling we're not the ones stretching this time. Reaching. Whatever.

and then there's that whole part about feeling "compelled to counteract claims" at the bottom. This is the way to do that??????

~not intended as advice, just amazement. And hey, my perception of the "tone" may be way off. Might never know.

I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I do not guarantee the accuracy, currentness, or content of the link in this post.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Corvallis Mom: [b]I too am only hoping that the inquiry makes public what was so definitively NOT anaphylaxis about her death. Because so far, I really haven't seen it. [/b]

me too. I mean, do you think that in some way this might perpetuate a potentially deadly mistake of treating an anaphylactic event as "asthma" only? Or at least that's the way I understand what might happen if one treats anaphylaxis as "asthma". I mean, should a "food allergic reaction" *ever* be treated as if it were an "asthma" event?

~no advice, just asking.

~

On Mar 7, 2006

although, there's only one other question I have in my mind right now: [i]beta-blockade[/i]. But I could be way off. No advice.

[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 07, 2006).]

On Mar 7, 2006

Regarding coroner's reports and privacy.

Last year I contacted the coroner's office to get a report. They required a written request with my name and address, the name and address of decedent, his date of birth, date of death, where he died.

I did include the information that I was the decedent's sister, but we do not have the same last name, and the coroner's office did not verify with next of kin that I was a relation. (I also do not have the same last name as the next of kin.)

*********

Oddly enough, one of the possible causes of death was anaphylaxis. When we finally received the report there was a definite cause of death and it was not allergy related at all.

On Mar 7, 2006

Anna Marie, I didn't say that your feelings weren't *proper*. Or anyone else's that would like to know the cause of death. It's just me, okay? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

If the coroner was able to rule out allergies and asthma, I, personally, don't feel the need to know how she died. Does that make sense?

Also, posting this without having read past your post, Anna Marie, where you thought I thought your feelings weren't *proper*. Not at all. I'm sure the majority of people would like to know the COD regardless of what it was.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 7, 2006

csc, I didn't take anything offensively.

I think death is a very private thing. I think it's *proper* to not insist on answers from someone else. If the coroner had not said what he has already said, I would not feel the need to know.

If the family says *it was not anaphylaxis* after reviewing the report - then I also will say - OK then. But, if that statement comes from the coroner - I feel he needs to explain the swelling (amongst other things).

But, no, whether it was you or I that initiated the word *proper* into this conversation, I'm not offended. I think my feelings might not be completely appropriate. (I'm just trying to be honest - with myself as well as with people here.)

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by csc: [b]I don't feel the report should be made public if the COD was very clearly something other than asthma or an allergic reaction. Note: I said "very clearly".

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[/b]

is "lack of oxygen" "very clearly" something other than asthma or an allergic reaction. In some way, I feel my integrity as a parent of a food allergic child has been put on trial due to the publicity this case received and is continuting to receive. Not quite sure why, but I mean, I wasn't the one to mention it to my school. [i]They came to me.[/i] I didn't ask to be asked. KWIM? Somehow, I feel it's not the end of the questions and explanations that will continued to be asked [i]of me[/i]. And my child.

On Mar 7, 2006

I feel that it is very misleading for the coroner to say that it was not anaphylaxis; it was cerebral anoxia. Cerebral anoxia is one of the findings in a post mortem of someone who died from anaphylaxis. A medical person would most likely figure that out (doctor, nurse, or other medical person) and someone without a medical background could easily be misled by this statement that it was cerebral anoxia, not anaphylaxis. I really feel that the coroner changed his official diagnosis for political reasons, and yes I do believe that others may die from anaphylaxis as a result of this. It is very disheartening, as the more articles that get posted, the more it appears that anaphylaxis was actually not ruled out. He just changed the terminology.

On Mar 7, 2006

Well said Carefulmom.

Thank you for defining *cerebral anoxia* in plain english.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] me too. I mean, do you think that in some way this might perpetuate a potentially deadly mistake of treating an anaphylactic event as "asthma" only? Or at least that's the way I understand what might happen if one treats anaphylaxis as "asthma". I mean, should a "food allergic reaction" *ever* be treated as if it were an "asthma" event?

~no advice, just asking.

~

[/b]

i see i wasn't the only one.

On Mar 7, 2006

AnnaMarie, sorry to be "off topic", but since you're in this thread and one of the PA adults on the site, could I grab your take on this article I posted recently in "Off Topic"?

On Mar 7, 2006

[url="http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=healthNews&storyid=2006-03-06T224627Z_01_N06249814_RTRUKOC_0_US-PEANUTS.xml"]http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenew..._US-PEANUTS.xml[/url]

This is a short but very important article - important in this discussion.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b]Cerebral anoxia is one of the findings in a post mortem of someone who died from anaphylaxis. A medical person would most likely figure that out (doctor, nurse, or other medical person) and someone without a medical background could easily be misled by this statement that it was cerebral anoxia, not anaphylaxis. [/b]

What are the requirements to be a "coroner" in Canada? The U.S.?

On Mar 7, 2006

MB - I saw the link in the adults forum. (I think it's the same one.) I think it's great - definitely important info that people need. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]This is a short but very important article - important in this discussion. [/b]

to quote:

"Patients won't be safe if they think they can just have their partner brush their teeth or chew gum after they've eaten the food," Maloney told a news conference."

I mean, all I have to do is look at my dental work. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Or lack of it, in some cases.

On Mar 7, 2006

Carefulmom, thank-you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

So, why did the coroner change the wording, exactly? Not that he changed the wording (sorry, I'm still not doing great), but he should be able to put that what he listed as COD could have been part of anaphylaxis. No, I'm not making sense. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img]

I remember years ago when Jesse had a near fatal anaphylactic reaction and I asked if, in Ontario, there was anyone that hospitals reported to to say that there had been a death due to anaphylaxis and the answer, at that time, was no.

I also have gotten the sense, through the years, that a lot of times, anaphylactic deaths are recorded/reported as something else - i.e., asthma attacks.

No, Momma Bear, to me, that wording is not "very clearly". I'm trying to spell it out without spelling it out, KWIM?

If it was "very clear" that the girl died because of drug use (if that can be "very clear") - then it would be "very clear" that she did not die due to PA or asthma (although someone else did post and I do have to agree that certainly drug use does affect asthmatics, especially if it's something that is smoked); then I thought it was okay for it not to be published.

What type of politics would the coroner be playing? I don't quite understand. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 7, 2006

Another quote:

"[b]The study, which looked at how much peanut allergen was in saliva following a meal,[/b] "

It seems it's to late to stop the ball. It's rolling. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] They have already started doing these studies. They have already started getting results.

I wonder if this is the organization the coroner misnamed?

On Mar 7, 2006

Sorry, as far as Paulette's comments about people faking that they have a PA child in the school system, I just can't deal with those right now and I think the people that did (Corvallis Mom and becca come to mind) said things a heckuva lot better than I can right now.

Otherwise, I'd just say - yes, I enjoy the he** we go through sometimes to get our children even through a school door; I enjoy having to call about every bloody food that comes into the school for whatever reason; I enjoy waiting for "the call" and I most certainly enjoy the he** my child has suffered because of idiots at schools he has attended. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by csc: [b]What type of politics would the coroner be playing? I don't quite understand. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img]

[/b]

Some people think the food allergic community is hysterical. Some people want to stop that hysteria.

Look what has happened in Canada (that some people object to). Peanut bans in daycares/schools. Banning the sale of peanuts in city facilities (Toronto). Currently talk of banning peanuts at the ACC. Some people think this is all going to far. (Not trying to raise a discussion about whether it is to far or not - but I think we can all agree that [i]some[/i] people think it is.) So, maybe the coroner doesn't want to add fuel to our fire. (Just my opinion of what politics he could be playing.)

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b]I feel that it is very misleading for the coroner to say that it was not anaphylaxis; it was cerebral anoxia. Cerebral anoxia is one of the findings in a post mortem of someone who died from anaphylaxis. [/b]

I don't have a medical background, so I have a question: Could the coroner have found the definitive cause for the cerebral anoxia - enough to strongly rule out anaphylaxis altogether? What other types of events cause cerebral anoxia - many others or just a few? Is it a term like "bruise" that could have many causes?

On Mar 7, 2006

I'm unclear. Is the coroner saying she died from "lack of oxygen" related to "asthma"?

[url="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3624/is_199801/ai_n8792439"]http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3624/is_199801/ai_n8792439[/url]

what "rules out" the pa then? I mean, since it's stated she was pa? If anything, is it still in limbo? I mean, even if it hasn't been "ruled in". KWIM?

I mean, can "food allergies" be a trigger for asthma? I'm not saying they are or aren't, just that in my own child's personal, highly individual, and unique situation, it sure looks like "asthma" is the picture of how it initially presents itself, at least in the visually observable realm. IMMV. I've read various accounts of presentations.

Initially, I've come to think: "food allergy?" and then try to narrow it down to "asthma?". But that's just personally, in my child's situation.

~Not intended as advice, just personally, in my own situation.

General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I do not guarantee the accuracy, currentness, or content of the link in this post.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by csc: [b]No, Momma Bear, to me, that wording is not "very clearly". I'm trying to spell it out without spelling it out, KWIM?

If it was "very clear" that the girl died because of drug use (if that can be "very clear") - then it would be "very clear" that she did not die due to PA or asthma (although someone else did post and I do have to agree that certainly drug use does affect asthmatics, especially if it's something that is smoked); then I thought it was okay for it not to be published.

[/b]

Honestly, csc, [b][i]drugs[/i][/b] are the furthest thing from my mind as a cause. Maybe it's just me. I could be way off.

BTW, "Off Topic", and since I bumped into you in this thread [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I have a thread running in "Off Topic", would you be so kind as to give me your take on it? Anyone else would be appreciated too.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] Some people think the food allergic community is hysterical. [/b]

[b][i]AAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYAAAAAAAAA!!!!![/i][/b]

On Mar 7, 2006

I did some searching. I found some extremely interesting sites that I want to look into further - just for personal reasons.

However, I also found one that relates to our current conversation.

[url="http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/anoxia/anoxia.htm"]www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/anoxia/anoxia.htm[/url]

Quote:

Cerebral hypoxia refers to a condition in which there is a decrease of oxygen supply to the brain even though there is adequate blood flow. Drowning, strangling, choking, suffocation, cardiac arrest, head trauma, carbon monoxide poisoning, and complications of general anesthesia can create conditions that can lead to cerebral hypoxia. Symptoms of mild cerebral hypoxia include inattentiveness, poor judgment, memory loss, and a decrease in motor coordination. Brain cells are extremely sensitive to oxygen deprivation and can begin to die within five minutes after oxygen supply has been cut off. When hypoxia lasts for longer periods of time, it can cause coma, seizures, and even brain death. In brain death, there is no measurable activity in the brain, although cardiovascular function is preserved. Life support is required for respiration.

[This message has been edited by AnnaMarie (edited March 07, 2006).]

On Mar 7, 2006

Cayley's Mom, I think your question is really important and probably therein lies the answer.

Momma Bear, looking back at my son's first two asthma attacks (and looking back year's later when it was too late to figure things out), I'm not clear that they weren't PA related. They were very soon after his diagnosis when we did not have the "comfort zone" we currently have.

We developed our current "comfort zone" within a few months of his second asthma attack, but not because of the asthma attack; because of an anaphylactic reaction.

And I do have to wonder because the space of time between his asthma attacks (3 in all) were two within three months (without current "comfort zone") and then 6 years later (and not PA related).

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 7, 2006

Found this earlier today.

[url="http://netk.net.au/Reports/Anaphylaxis.asp"]http://netk.net.au/Reports/Anaphylaxis.asp[/url]

"The authors found that in 23/56 anaphylactic deaths studied there were no macroscopic post mortem findings suggestive of anaphylaxis.

Mast cell tryptase

On Mar 7, 2006

I know this thread has gotten really long, and it is hard to keep track of everyone`s posts, but Momma Bear, yes an anaphylactic reaction can present as an asthma attack. According to a pediatric newspaper "Infectious Diseases In Children", 10 to 20% of fatal anaphylactic reactions present as an asthma attack. That is one reason asthma is such a huge risk factor for death from anaphylaxis, because if people don`t recognize that it is an allergic reaction and just treat it as asthma, the blood pressure can still be dropping.

CSC, you asked what I meant by political reasons, and it is pretty much what Anna Marie said. In one article on this thread, the coroner basically said he did not want her death used to educate people about pa. I am sure there are lots of people who finally understood how little peanut it takes to cause a death from this story. It happened in my own family. My aunt finally understood why we don`t go to family functions where peanuts are served. She never understood that before. I can see where 504s could have more accomodations due to this story. That isn`t necessarily a bad thing. Last year in 4th grade, dd`s teacher kept violating the 504 because she did not take pa seriously. She ate a pb sandwich on a field trip and told me she wasn`t going to wash her hands. Maybe if this had happened last year the teacher would have gotten it. And I wonder how many teenagers have decided to tell their dates about their pa and not to eat peanuts on the day of the date because of this story. Somehow the coroner sees education as a bad thing, it seems.

Back to Corvallis Mom`s question about other causes of cerebral anoxia, yes, there are others, but a finding of cerebral anoxia certainly does not rule out anaphylaxis. If anything, it is consistent with anaphylaxis. I have decided in thinking about this that cerebral anoxia is not really a cause of death. It is really a mechanism of death. That may seem like hair splitting. A cause of death would be cerebral anoxia due to anaphylaxis, cerebral anoxia due to stroke, cerebral anoxia due to drowning, etc. So basically he did not rule anaphylaxis in or out. So again you have to look at the clinical picture. Most of the causes of cerebral anoxia listed in the post above clearly didn`t happen.

And one article in this thread the coroner said it wasn`t pa related because the boyfriend had eaten other items since the peanut butter, so that would have gotten rid of the residue. Hello? Then I guess by that reasoning I can start giving dd things made on shared equipment with peanuts. Peanut residue is extremely difficult to get rid of. How could the coroner not know this?

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Carefulmom: [b]I know this thread has gotten really long, and it is hard to keep track of everyone`s posts, but Momma Bear, yes an anaphylactic reaction can present as an asthma attack. According to a pediatric newspaper "Infectious Diseases In Children", 10 to 20% of fatal anaphylactic reactions present as an asthma attack. [/b]

Yes, carefulmom, I should have been clearer in my post. Completely understand, even tho in my cub's particular instance, there are many "asthma" triggers. I have a tendency to want to rule out the most deadly ones first. Food allergies being one of his "triggers".

I mean, when time is of the essence. Although that said, if you can't breathe, that's deadly enough, right? I mean, regardless of the cause. Although, *that* said, I realise the importance of appropriate treatment and try not to get lost in treating the symptoms, but rather, [i]the cause[/i].

The "asthma" he experiences in that situation (along with a host of other symptoms) has the potential to be much more deadly (in his particular instance, can't speak for others) than that he might experience from a virus, mold, mites, trees, cold weather, or pollen, KWIM?) Individual Mileage May vary.

I understand some "triggers" that my cub has for "Asthma" are much more deadly to others, than they have been for him. In his case, when his "asthma" is part of an anaphylactic reaction, it's at it's rapid worst, most tenacious, and deadly.

Although that said, he's had mystery coughs that just happen to excacerbate in the lunch room. Anywhere in the lunch room. Especially during lunch. It's not all the time, but pretty frequent. But that is the extent of them there. What am I going to do? remove him from his life? every "what if" situation? (NO ADVICE, I COULD BE AN AWFUL MOM. A BAD MOMMY. A HORRENDOUS RISK TAKER WITH A LIFE NOT EVEN MY OWN.)But I digress.

and completely understand.

But hey, I could be way off. ~no advice.

General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Just describing my own personal, highly individual, and unique situation. And I could be wrong about that too.

On Mar 7, 2006

Yes, exactly... thank you, Careful Mom.

I think that the part that keeps bugging me is that the coroner has in effect UNDONE any good that had resulted from Christina's death... and that is if anything, an even greater tragedy. I mean, I have gotten the distinct sense from Rick and Theresa that education and change was one thing they took a lot of comfort from. Nothing can ever replace your child-- all you can do is make sure that they didn't die for nothing. That their death had a purpose, to prevent another family from going through your pain.

Why would the coroner deny the Desforges this? He must have had a compelling reason, I keep telling myself with every new revelation... but then each new revelation just makes it seem more likely that it WAS probably a reaction that killed her. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img]

I just do not understand the rationale of the man. Better to have said nothing in light of what he [i]has[/i] said, KWIM?

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

does anyone have the same of the coroner and how to locate a mailing address?

I think someone (maybe I'll do it) should point the coroner to this thread...

Adrienne

------------------ 30-year old survivor of severe peanut/tree nut allergy

On Mar 7, 2006

At least they are starting to research this topic...

Review MIAMI BEACH, March 7 - A kiss is not a kiss for a person with an exquisite peanut allergy if the lip-locking partner is fond of munching goober-based products. It may be a trip to the hospital.

Peanut allergens can linger in saliva for hours, meaning that people who are peanut allergic should be extremely cautious when in a deep kiss. That advice to the lovesick comes from researchers who presented data at the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology meeting here.

"A concern that becomes more pressing as peanut-allergic individuals enter pre-adolescence and adolescence is the concern about kissing, and especially with passionate kissing there is a risk for allergens to be transmitted in saliva," said Jennifer Maloney, M.D., of Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York.

When a Quebec girl with peanut allergies died recently after kissing her boyfriend who had eaten a peanut butter snack many hours before, it was widely reported that she died from anaphylactic shock. That turned out to be false, said a local coroner today. The girl, identified as 15-year-old Christina Desforges, instead died from cerebral anoxia, coroner Michel Miron said. He did not specify what caused the lack of oxygen.

Still, say allergy researchers here, peanut-allergic patients can indeed suffer severe allergic or anaphylactic reactions when they come into contact with the oral fluids of a peanut eater.

Dr. Maloney and her colleagues conducted a two-part study in which they measured levels of peanut antigens in saliva at various time points, and then evaluated various methods for washing them away.

They first asked 10 healthy volunteers to eat a sandwich containing two tablespoons of peanut butter. They also measured concentrations in the volunteers' saliva of Ara h 1, a well-characterized peanut allergen, prior to eating peanut butter in the morning, at five minutes and one hour after, before lunch (an average of 3.3 hours after eating peanut butter), after lunch, at the end of the workday (about 7.25 hours post peanut butter), and the following morning.

They then investigated which if any of several interventions might help to wash the allergens away. These included brushing teeth for two minutes, brushing plus rinsing twice with a "swish-and-spit" technique, rinsing twice alone, or chewing gum after waiting for thirty minutes post-peanut butter. The chewing gum intervention was delayed because the oils in peanut butter can break down the gum's consistency, which is why it's used to remove gum from hair.

"What we found, and this is a little bit surprising, three out of our 10 participants actually did not have measurable peanut in their saliva at five minutes after eating the sandwich," said Dr. Maloney.

Of the remaining seven volunteers, six cleared the allergen out of their saliva within one hour, and in the one person in whom Ara h 1 was detectable at the one-hour mark, the allergen had cleared by 4.5 hours.

"From this point of our investigation we can conclude that peanut is detectable in the majority of subjects after eating a meal with peanuts, and secondly we can conclude that it does leave the saliva over several hours," said Dr. Maloney.

When they looked at the intervention, they found that no single intervention was uniformly successful at removing peanut allergen from saliva, although in eight of nine gum chewers the peanut was removed from their saliva.

"The best approach would be for the partner of the food-allergic individual to completely avoid the food," Dr. Maloney said. "However, if this isn't possible, we think that waiting several hours, possibly eating a meal in between would reduce levels below what would be a clinical problem, and that most likely would be a safe approach as well," she added.

Primary source: American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology Source reference: Maloney J et al. Peanut Allergen Exposure through Kissing (Saliva): Assessment and Intervention. Abstract 134 presented March 4.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

"What we found, and this is a little bit surprising, three out of our 10 participants actually did not have measurable peanut in their saliva at five minutes after eating the sandwich," said Dr. Maloney.

I wonder if those three were again tested later. What I'm thinking is, the saliva produced after the peanut has been completely digested could have the protein.

On Mar 7, 2006

There is nothing I'd like more to be sure that peanuts cannot be passed on in this manner.(after a few hours that is, I know you can pass it on from a kiss shortly after) But before I get comfortable about it, they are going to have to use a much larger sample size than 10! What happens of someone eats peanuts and some gets stuck in their teeth? Lots of people have deep molars or gaps where peanuts love to hide out!

It's a good start though. I hope that they look further into it and they can establish some safe guidelines. I'd like to sleep at night when my daughter becomes a teen (although I doubt I will even if she outgrows a PA! LOL)

On Mar 7, 2006

oh sigh.

a "google" search for "science and society coroner nuts" up a blog discussing this very topic. probably about the second hit. sigh sigh sigh.

It's on a blog (abc news correspondent?) and about the third listing down is a post entitled "Nuts". (March 3, 2006)

there is only one comment in response thus far and it's sooooooooooo predictable. hate it when that happens.

~no advice, just me.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b]oh sigh.

a "google" search for "science and society coroner nuts" up a blog discussing this very topic. probably about the second hit. sigh sigh sigh.

It's on a blog (abc news correspondent?) and about the third listing down is a post entitled "Nuts". (March 3, 2006)

there is only one comment in response thus far and it's sooooooooooo predictable. hate it when that happens.

~no advice, just me. [/b]

Just went and read that blog, MB. He fancies himself a cutting edge myth-dispeller. *Sigh* is right. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

Carefulmom, thank-you so much for explaining things as well as you did.

I have to agree with Corvallis Mom's last post.

As far as the "politics" of it all, I also appreciate the explanation, both Anna Marie and Carefulmom. I just can't deal with that right now (if that makes any sense [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] ).

I know that as a PA parent, individually, I may have, at times, been seen as *something*, perhaps a fanatic or just someone that people roll their eyes at; but I honestly haven't thought about what the food allergy community (which would include all of us here) is thought of. KWIM? I'll try to think about that now.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

------------------ "That was Polanski. Nicholson got his nose cut."

On Mar 14, 2006

Dear Friend of FAI,

Also making the news this week as a result of presentations at the just concluded American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology Annual Meetings is the

On Mar 14, 2006

Dear Friend of FAI, Some of you have been asking about the news the last few days that 15 year old Canadian Christina Desforges's death may not have been due to anaphylaxis from coming into contact with peanut from kissing her boyfriend. Hopefully this email will help clarify what we know and do not know at this point. Since details of her peanut exposure, use of epinephrine, final coroner's report and all the related details have never been confirmed and made available to the public, the medical community still is not certain what happened. The coroner

On Apr 3, 2006

x

On Apr 3, 2006

Forgive me if this doesn't make sense, but it is late and I am tired. But I was thinking about this and I wonder (maybe MommaBear or someone else in the medical field would know). Is it possible that she did experience anaphylaxis, but because she was then on life support for several days, that the coroner would consider the removal of life support to be the cause of death? Wouldn't the effect of ending life support be anoxia, as a machine would no longer be breathing for her? So although an allergic reaction caused her to be in that condition to begin with, the actual cause of death was that she did not breath when life support was removed? Does this make sense the way I have phrased it?

On Apr 7, 2006

Bumping up for TRexFamily.

On Apr 7, 2006

I am not aware of the coroner releasing any cause of anoxia, but yes, I think what you've written makes sense.

It has been suggested that it was an asthma attack. But even then -- was it an allergy that caused such a severe attack? (assuming that it was an asthma attack)

On Jun 17, 2006

This is in the latest FAAN newsletter, the June-July issue. I don`t have a scanner, so I`ll just type it word for word.

"In The News Coroner Michael Miron has issued his final report on the cause of death of Canadian teen Christina DesForges, whose death was reported worldwide last year as a direct result of kissing her boyfriend who earlier had eaten peanuts.

The Coroner has ruled that the peanut-allergic teen died from a severe asthma attack not as a result of her boyfriend`s kiss, as previously suspected. In his report, Coroner Miron rasied several public health issues related to asthma, education and the prevention of allergic reactions, and the treatment of asthma in a person with food allergies.

The coroner stated that he would like the ministries of education, leisure and sport, and health and social services in Canada, to develop an awareness-raising and prevention program for food allergies in young children. Miron also underscored how complex the treatment of an acute asthma attack is in a person with food allergies and called on physicians to do a better job of diagnosing these patients and consider prescribing epinephrine for patients with food allergy and asthma."

That was the article. My dd`s peanut reactions always look like an asthma attack. How can the coroner be so sure that this asthma attack was not actually an allergic reaction caused by the peanut kiss? It sounds to me like it was probably an allergic reaction.

On Jun 20, 2006

Sounds like an allergic reaction to me too............

On Jun 20, 2006

I'm still confused about how some people seem to be feeling about the coroner's report. Think about this hypothetical situation:

I am allergic to sesame seeds AND I have actually reacted to trace amounts AND I have actually reacted to my husband eating sesame seeds. I have had an anaphylactic reaction to sesame seeds.

I am allergic to peanuts. My reactions to peanuts have not been as serious.

Now, if I actually ATE peanuts, and my husband ate sesame seeds and then kissed me - and I had a severe anaphylactic reaction - which do you think would be the most likely culprit? What I actually ate (peanut) or what he ate (sesame)?

***********

When looking at what happened with Christina, I don't understand why some people have a hard time accepting that what she actually smoked is more likely to have caused her death, rather than what her boyfriend ate. (And I definitely do accept that what a partner eats can cause serious and even life-threatening reactions.)

On Jun 20, 2006

I don't know...........should an [i]American[/i] coroner review this case?

On Jun 20, 2006

Here is my biggest problem with the coroner's final report: he seems to be implying that she smoked marijuana and that provoked an asthma attack. I happen to know (don't ask how [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]) that smoking marijuana can [i]alleviate[/i] an asthma attack. So I am having more and more difficulties in accepting the final report as being free of political inclinations. I just don't buy it.

On Jun 20, 2006

Here is my feeling on the issue:

Who said she died of an allergic reaction in the first place??

I have read many articles stating that this girl died from an allergic reaction. In none of the articles was there mention of the name of an offical person quoted as saying this girl died from a peanut allergy. (please correct me if I am wrong)Even in the People Magazine article, which I think was the most descriptive one I read, it was not explained [b]who[/b] thought she died because of her allergies. It was always a general emergency responders or family said. Not even "a representative of the hospital." The only experts quoted were those who were not at all associated with Christina, had no official information and spoke only in generalities. There was no medical person who gave a reason to belive that this girl died froma peanut allergy. It was all the media's interpretation.

Regardless of Kim's experiene, any smoke that you inhale can provoke an asthma attack.

The coronor did an official report. His name is in print. He examined Christina. I don't think he has a bias, he just wanted to stop people from insisting on something that wasn't true.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kim M: [b]Here is my biggest problem with the coroner's final report: he seems to be implying that she smoked marijuana and that provoked an asthma attack. I happen to know (don't ask how [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]) that smoking marijuana can [i]alleviate[/i] an asthma attack. So I am having more and more difficulties in accepting the final report as being free of political inclinations. I just don't buy it.[/b]

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