Seems my point was completely misunderstood...

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 12:45am
samirosenjacken's picture
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I was not talking about PEANUTS!!! I said and this is what he said.. PEANUT BUTTER SANDWICHES will not cause someone to have an airborne reaction. If I am eating a pb sandwich and my child sits next to me AND DOES NOT TOUCH ME AND I DO NOT TOUCH HER she will not have an allergic reaction to the SMELL OF MY PEANUT BUTTER. Peanut butter does not give off peanut dust (proteins) which cause the reactions.

However, if I touch my child, yes the peanut residue could elicit a reaction. If she touches the peanut butter, she will have a reaction but the SMELL OF THE PB will not cause her to have a reaction!

That said, I did say he did agree that Peanuts could cause an airborn reaction b/c of the DUST that is given off! It's the dust that has the proteins which cause the reaction! He said the shelling of peanuts would have the dust in the air which could MOST DEFINITELY cause a reaction! However, you are a bit safer outside in open air compared to being inside closed in!

I sure hope that clarifies things. I know for a fact my child has reacted airborn but it was not to peanut butter but to peanuts in birdseed. Two completly different things!

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 3:24am
Driving Me Nutty's picture
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samirosenjacken-
I understood it the way intended. But I did re-read it and discuss it w/my husband. And it makes sense that peanut protein or dust does not get airborne from opening a jar of PB.
Traces of Peanuts on seats are definitely something to consider though if going to a ballpark (same with grocery carts too). Being in an open environment doesn't reduce the risk of that contamination.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 4:21am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Driving Me Nutty:
[b]samirosenjacken-
I understood it the way intended. But I did re-read it and discuss it w/my husband. And it makes sense that peanut protein or dust does not get airborne from opening a jar of PB.[/b]
One thing to also consider is if it is a new jar of peanut butter. If it is vacuum sealed, opening the jar could cause the air pressure to expel particles of peanut protein into the air. Although I do not know if this is the case - just an idea.
Personally, I do not worry about the smell of peanut butter as it has never caused a reaction for me. All of my airborne reactions have been in the vicinity of peanuts being eaten by people such as in a bar, etc and the people are cracking open the peanut shells and eating the peanuts. People eating pre-shelled peanuts have also caused me to have reactions.
But someone eating a Snickers bar or M&Ms next to me in a movie theatre, etc has never caused a reaction - it seems there must be a large enough amount of peanut protein in the air for this to occur. It is similar to my ragweed pollen allergy, as when the ragweed pollen count is 10 ppm I have no reaction, but when it is 300 ppm my reaction is quite noticeable.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 4:23am
river's picture
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Did you ask how the Dr. knows this for an absolute certainty? Is there actual scientific information to substantiate this claim? Would he feel that the smell of oily roasted peanuts would be safe since the dust doesn't fly around?
Before I ever let my child be around peanut butter or peanut smells---I'd like to know exactly the thinking behind such a statement. I don't take information at face value when it comes to peanut allergies.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 5:16am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b]Would he feel that the smell of oily roasted peanuts would be safe since the dust doesn't fly around?[/b]
I believe I would have an airborne reaction if I was in the vicinity of oily roasted peanuts. Even being in a room with several bowls of pre-shelled peanuts has caused me to have sinus symptoms and sneezing (not as severe as in a bar with shelled peanuts, but a reaction nonetheless).
I guess as I was mentioning about opening a new vacuum sealed jar of peanut butter, how are we to know for a certainty whether the peanut smell is accompanied by traces of peanut protien, or if it is just the smell. I believe in many cases, peanut protein accompanies the smell.
Think of your kitchen. Look at all of the oil/grease that gets captured in the oven fan above the stove. If you are roasting peanuts, I believe the oil/grease that is carried through the air and captured by the fan would contain traces of peanut protein.
So you can never be sure if the smell also contains traces of peanuts especially when peanuts are being eaten/processed in the vicinity.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 5:19am
samirosenjacken's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b]Did you ask how the Dr. knows this for an absolute certainty? Is there actual scientific information to substantiate this claim? Would he feel that the smell of oily roasted peanuts would be safe since the dust doesn't fly around?
Before I ever let my child be around peanut butter or peanut smells---I'd like to know exactly the thinking behind such a statement. I don't take information at face value when it comes to peanut allergies.
[/b]
Since he is a well known food allergy specialist at Johns Hopkins University and he himself is also peanut allergic, I would think he has knowledge in this area.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 6:02am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b]Would he feel that the smell of oily roasted peanuts would be safe since the dust doesn't fly around?[/b]
Hi River,
As KStreeter said in the other thread, the heating process can release aerosol proteins so that could also cause an airborne reaction. So I would definitely stay away from roasted peanuts.
Quote:Originally posted by kstreeter:
[b]As far as airborne, many would disagree with his attitude about airborne reactions. I was surprised that he didn't mention that when peanuts or shellfish are cooking they can be particularly problematic. The heating process actually releases the protein that is the allergen. (this is what I understood my allergist to say) When my son was 15 months old or so he had breathing difficulties shortly after passing a nut vendor in a park. My husband has breathing problems if he enters a kitchen where shrimp or other shellfish are cooking. [/b]

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 12:05pm
tgab's picture
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This makes sense to me. However, I do have a rather stupid question.
Do the particles that float around in the air that make up the "smell" not always contain peanut protein? Because if you are smelling something, it is from tiny particles of what you are smelling in the air.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 12:06pm
tgab's picture
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This makes sense to me. However, I do have a rather stupid question.
Do the particles that float around in the air that make up the "smell" not always contain peanut protein? Because if you are smelling something, it is from tiny particles of what you are smelling in the air.

Posted on: Fri, 06/13/2003 - 1:16pm
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Hi, I haven't posted here in a while but couldn't help but jump in...
I am 31 years old and have been PA all my life. I have reacted on SEVERAL occasions to peanut butter in the air. The first time I remember reacting to smell alone was in 8th grade. A friend was sitting about 10 feet from me eating a pb candy bar - my lips swelled up and my eyes swelled almost shut. Since then I have reacted on several other occasions most notably in my 2 year old classroom. When I first began teaching I had not yet sent a letter home asking the parents to refrain from sending peanut products in their child's lunch. We would sit all the pb kids at one table and I would stay on the opposite side of the room but nevertheless my eyes would swell, my throat would itch, I would sneeze constantly, and my exposed skin (mostly face and arms) would break out in a rash. If that's not airborne reactions I don't know what is.
My son is also PA and on at least 3 occasions his eyes have swelled shut from sitting near but not next to a child eating pb.
Rebekah

Posted on: Sat, 06/14/2003 - 6:18am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

samirojacken, I didn't think your point was completely misunderstood in the other thread that you have running. What I think was that people disagreed with what Dr. Wood relayed to you (although I may be unclear).
I did post this in your other thread, but I felt I should post it in this thread as well, just because.
Okay, I think I clarified in my head the difference between airborne and smell (and the reactions thereof).
I know that there is another thread running on this topic and wasn't clear where to post this, but I was re-reading this one second so posting here.
I remember a couple of years ago, Claire posted here about an experience her son Christopher had. Her non-PA daughter was allowed to eat her unsafe (to PA people) Hallowe'en candy with very strict rules in place (i.e., handwashing, teeth brushing, etc.).
Christopher was working at his desk, I believe, and his sister merely walked by him on her way to clean herself up (I'll have to see if I can find the Hallowe'en thread or the thread with the story in it) and Christopher had a reaction.
It would not have been an airborne reaction (i.e., to particles in the air). It would have been a smell reaction.
Isn't that why, when (if) we choose to show our PA children a jar of pb, we don't open the jar, we just let them peer at it through the plastic/glass?
I think there are a great number of people that react to residue/airborne/smell. I just don't think, as I posted originally, that everyone automatically knows that they are supposed to contact someone when they or their child have a reaction and even then, as I was told by Anaphylaxis Canada, because we parents are considered lay-people, not doctors, and the reaction was witnessed by us, not professionals (i.e., doctors), it's almost heresay to an allergy association if we report a say residue reaction.
I can report a residue reaction to Anaphylaxis Canada for Jesse for December month last year. However, essentially what they've said to me is that that's all well and good BUT you're not a doctor and how can we prove 100% that it was a residue reaction and not something else?
So, how do they get stats and then how do they decipher what stats they would like to consider accurate?
I think bottom line is that we know for ourselves here, from our experiences with either ourselves (for the big people posting, erik [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] ) or our children, that airborne/smell/residue reactions DO occur whether or not anyone in allergy association power is willing to hear us or not.
I would love it if there was somewhere where you could report a reaction and the type of reaction would not be questioned because you, the parent, are not a doctor. I would love to see some accurate statistics. But so far, I have yet to find anywhere where you can get them.
That's why I always question when I hear the percentage of PA children/people. How do you (whoever states it) know that? Where does that figure come from?
Now, I did recently *register* Jesse with Anaphaylaxis Canada as being anaphylactic to peanuts. So, is he included in stats issued by Anaphylaxis Canada now?
Actually, I think I'll post this in the other thread as well so it's in both.
Even here, in PA.com, to get an accurate reflection of the number of reactions and types of reactions, every member would have to participate. Or do you think we could simply ask the question and tally up the results based on the number of people that do answer the question? I'm willing to do it.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------

Posted on: Sun, 06/15/2003 - 1:15am
river's picture
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Joined: 07/15/1999 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by samirosenjacken:
[b] Since he is a well known food allergy specialist at Johns Hopkins University and he himself is also peanut allergic, I would think he has knowledge in this area.[/b]
I'd hope so, but with so much politics and money surrounding this issue, I'm not about to take anyone at face value, especially where it involves a possible life threatening situation with my son.
Personally given that the line between smell reaction and airborne reaction is so muddy, (if it exists at all), I don't know why a medical doctor would even try to make this distinction, since it could possibly create more confusion and put lives, (mostly children's lives), at greater risk. What good could come of this statement?

Posted on: Sun, 06/15/2003 - 4:31am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b]Personally given that the line between smell reaction and airborne reaction is so muddy...[/b]
This reminds me of the peanut oil question.
Refined peanut oil is supposed to be safe as it contains no peanut protein (smell is supposed to be safe as it contains no peanut protein)...
But in some cases such as cold pressed peanut oil is not safe as it does contain some protein (in some cases smell is not safe as it may contain aerosolized traces of peanut protein)
So it's best to avoid peanut oil as you can never be certain if there are traces of peanut protein in the oil (it's best to avoid peanut smell as you can never be certain if there are traces of aerosolized peanut protein in the smell).

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