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Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 8:51am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Nothing says you can't be squeaky [i]while[/i] you're being sweet. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Right?
I think Gail is right on target-- this is definitely a situation to inspire considerable fear in both parents and teacher. But that being the case, they need to be able to work [i]together[/i] against a what has turned out to be a common enemy. Put yourself in this teacher's shoes-- she's been told [i]SEVERAL[/i] different things by different "authority figures", right? (And the rules evidently keep changing as fast as she can keep up!) She knows that making a mistake could cost a child his life. I'd be terrified.

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 9:51am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]Nothing says you can't be squeaky [i]while[/i] you're being sweet. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[/b]
Nothing says that being squeaky is anything less than appropriate. People who interpret someone pointing out what *should* be, what is *supposed* to be, are [i]suspect[/i] in my book. [b]Guilty[/b].
I've never had a problem with people who have concerns, or complaints for that matter. If it takes someone "outside" the system to see where the problem lies, to make a fuss, then [i]shame on those[/i] [b]inside the system[/b]. It just should never happen.
[i]shame, shame, shame.[/i]
If a problem gets referred to my [i]superior[/i] that I was a direct variable in, that I had an obligation in, then hey, it was probably [i]staring me right in the face[/i] at one point or another. Probably several times.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited September 13, 2006).]

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 12:43pm
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]Put yourself in this teacher's shoes-- she's been told [i]SEVERAL[/i] different things by different "authority figures", right? (And the rules evidently keep changing as fast as she can keep up!) She knows that making a mistake could cost a child his life. I'd be terrified.[/b]
Exactly.
But this is what I find most terrifying: on top of all that, sometimes teachers and school nurses also [i]fear for their job[/i]. I've seen and experienced it personally. Others here have also posted about it (thinking of bandbmom, Drew's mom). When push comes to shove, most teachers are going to do what s/he is told to do by the superior who evaluates him/her. It's [i]self-preservation. [/i]
I'll always remember the conversation I had with the school nurse before Mariah's 504 eligibility meeting. She essentially [i]apologized[/i] to me before the meeting because she didn't know what the outcome would be and wanted me to know that that she would have to 'fall in line' with whatever her supervisor ruled. She [i]knew[/i] it would be wrong to deny Mariah a 504 designation, but she knew that she couldn't risk losing her job by disagreeing with ~defying~ her supervisor or the Super if that was his decision. She was basically asking me for my understanding and forgiveness if that's how things would have gone. (That was one of those conversations that included a lot of human emotion, including fear, and also involved *a hug*.)
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited September 13, 2006).]

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 12:59pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
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You make a great point, actually, MB... better still when combined with the other one...
Common enemy.... staring in the face, several times.
Best to have [i]as many squeaky wheels as possible in that case, wouldn't you say?[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] The enemy of my enemy and all that. If you can be nice enough to reach beyond someone's fear of the situation they find themselves in, they may be willing to become an ally in a mutual [i]cause.[/i] The cause of defeating beauracratic inertia/institutional flaws. KWIM?
This is [i]always[/i] my strategy, by the way-- and it pays HUGE dividends. Regularly.
Glad this came up, actually-- it is something I have been searching for a way to say for a long time.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 11:13pm
Rosemary S's picture
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NicoleinNH,
I

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 11:25pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]You make a great point, actually, MB... better still when combined with the other one...
Common enemy.... staring in the face, several times.
Best to have [i]as many squeaky wheels as possible in that case, wouldn't you say?[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] The enemy of my enemy and all that. If you can be nice enough to reach beyond someone's fear of the situation they find themselves in, they may be willing to become an ally in a mutual [i]cause.[/i] The cause of defeating beauracratic inertia/institutional flaws. KWIM?
This is [i]always[/i] my strategy, by the way-- and it pays HUGE dividends. Regularly.
[/b]
Your strategy assumes people [i]care[/i].
I mean, other than what happens to their own backside.
It's a dangerous assumption.

Posted on: Wed, 09/13/2006 - 11:30pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

repeating......
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Exactly.
But this is what I find most terrifying: on top of all that, sometimes teachers and school nurses also [i]fear for their job[/i]. I've seen and experienced it personally. Others here have also posted about it (thinking of bandbmom, Drew's mom). When push comes to shove, most teachers are going to do what s/he is told to do by the superior who evaluates him/her. It's [i]self-preservation. [/i]
[/b]
My biggest flaw is my aptitude for [i]tunnel vision[/i]. Assuming everyone looks at things the way I do. It was a huge step for me to finally realize that even some of the most cuddly, drippy sweet, [i]pleasant[/i] people involved in my cubs care put [i]Numero Uno[/i] above someone else's life. Were more worried about [i]getting in trouble[/i], than [i]doing the right thing[/i].
It's a realization you have to learn to make. I've had to practice restraint....
Discerning which of those *nice* (or even not so nice) people will do the *right* thing is not a luxury I can afford now. Actually, I never could afford it. I've just been [i]lucky[/i]. Or so I have been told.....but I digress.
Anywhoooo. Looking back, it's probably the old [i]battle axes[/i], the seemingly unfriendly, the [i]prickly[/i] people, that have done me the greatest good. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
Not the gooey ones.
This may be a backbone issue.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited September 14, 2006).]

Posted on: Thu, 09/14/2006 - 12:18am
mommyofmatt's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Rosemary S:
[b]NicoleinNH,
This requirement is not a state law, but is in the State

Posted on: Thu, 09/14/2006 - 6:24am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Quote:
Your strategy assumes people care.
I mean, other than what happens to their own backside.
Not at all-- I am quite possibly the world's biggest cynic.
I [i]never[/i] assume such a thing. Because I agree that this is a dangerous thing to do. I assume that people in general will [i]always[/i] do [b]what is in thier personal best interests.[/b] If I can make them aware that helping ME is not incompatible with that and that [i]I do not pose a danger to them[/i] then they can pleasantly surprise me. And they do. (But count on it-- never.)
This is why I may be very nice, but I'm not especially forthcoming with information they don't need to have.
I always come loaded for bear-- but I don't start by shooting at the chipmunks. The chipmunks, you see, are afraid of the bear too--and the bear is utterly indifferent to the chipmunks. Once in a while, one of the chipmunks decides they've had enough of that bear. I'll take advantage of that any time I can-- it may only be an annoyance to the bear, but it gives me a chance to [i]reload.[/i] The chipmunks are always surprised that I turn out to have that gun...
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I don't know if it works for everyone, though. My DH is utterly tone-deaf to political stuff too. To make my method work very well, I think you have to be able to read people very well and be able know what individual people are afraid of...empathy bordering on ESP, in other words. DH ain't got it. He tends to use your approach, MB. (With great success, I might add... picture[i] DH chases the bear out the back of the china shop, turns as he crashes through the back wall, shouting "Don't worry-- I'll pay for that later!!"[/i])
He is simply in awe of what I can accomplish by seemingly NEVER even demanding anything. Yoda. That's what he calls me in my element. (Of course, he calls it "That taoist cr@p" otherwise...) His method works better when you are dealing with all bears and don't have time for the set up. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] On the flip side, there is a communication/thinking style (emotive, non-assertive) common in educators that simply doesn't [i]allow[/i] them to really listen to you unless they feel they can "relate" to you or like you. DH figures he can just stomp them out of the way. I figure... I can take a shower later. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] (In other words, [i]yes[/i] it is a little like selling them something. But they can't hear you otherwise.)
All I'm saying is that there is more than one highly effective communication style. But probably only one [i]per person.[/i] My DH's style isn't one I can weild effectively, so I don't try. (And dare I say-- vice versa.)

Posted on: Thu, 09/14/2006 - 6:54am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
Not at all-- I am quite possibly the world's biggest cynic.
I [i]never[/i] assume such a thing. Because I agree that this is a dangerous thing to do. I assume that people in general will [i]always[/i] do [b]what is in thier personal best interests.[/b] If I can make them aware that helping ME is not incompatible with that and that [i]I do not pose a danger to them[/i] then they can pleasantly surprise me. And they do. (But count on it-- never.)
This is why I may be very nice, but I'm not especially forthcoming with information they don't need to have.
I always come loaded for bear-- but I don't start by shooting at the chipmunks. The chipmunks, you see, are afraid of the bear too--and the bear is utterly indifferent to the chipmunks. Once in a while, one of the chipmunks decides they've had enough of that bear. I'll take advantage of that any time I can-- it may only be an annoyance to the bear, but it gives me a chance to [i]reload.[/i] The chipmunks are always surprised that I turn out to have that gun...
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I don't know if it works for everyone, though. My DH is utterly tone-deaf to political stuff too. To make my method work very well, I think you have to be able to read people very well and be able know what individual people are afraid of...empathy bordering on ESP, in other words. DH ain't got it. He tends to use your approach, MB. (With great success, I might add... picture[i] DH chases the bear out the back of the china shop, turns as he crashes through the back wall, shouting "Don't worry-- I'll pay for that later!!"[/i])
He is simply in awe of what I can accomplish by seemingly NEVER even demanding anything. Yoda. That's what he calls me in my element. (Of course, he calls it "That taoist cr@p" otherwise...) His method works better when you are dealing with all bears and don't have time for the set up. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] On the flip side, there is a communication/thinking style (emotive, non-assertive) common in educators that simply doesn't [i]allow[/i] them to really listen to you unless they feel they can "relate" to you or like you. DH figures he can just stomp them out of the way. I figure... I can take a shower later. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] (In other words, [i]yes[/i] it is a little like selling them something. But they can't hear you otherwise.)
All I'm saying is that there is more than one highly effective communication style. But probably only one [i]per person.[/i] My DH's style isn't one I can weild effectively, so I don't try. (And dare I say-- vice versa.)
Now your assuming everyone has the ability, the intellect, the um....[i]flexibility[/i], the [i]ESP[/i] to do that. Your assuming I can hold my breath that long.
But.....EWWWWWWW........I don't want my head that far up.....
Honestly? people respond better to [i]bluntness[/i] and [i]logic[/i] and [i]reason[/i] better than you may imagine. Probably a lot better than when they feel indebted to you. You ought to at least try it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Besides, a lot of chipmunks have tenure. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Clean, Neat, Surgical. Logic. [i]Be the Vulcan.[/i]
Give your hubby a "high five" from me too. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
I don't remember Spock ever saying: "I'll pay for it later." [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Oh, what was it (tapping keyboard) someone posted once:
[b]Be the change you want to see.[/b] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I'd like to see people do what they *should*. [i]Their job.[/i]

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