recall on Coffee Crisp

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Original:

I just received this moments ago. Please Read:

ALLERGY ALERT - UNDECLARED PEANUT PROTEIN IN NESTLE COFFEE CRISP WAFER BAR SOLD IN PEANUT FREE ASSORTED SNACK SIZE PACKAGES

OTTAWA, February 25, 2006 - The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) and Nestle Canada Inc. are warning people with allergies to peanut protein not to consume the Nestle Coffee Crisp Wafer Bar described below. The affected product may contain peanut protein which is not declared on the label.

The affected product, Nestle Coffee Crisp Wafer Bar, is sold as a snack size bar stamped with a code beginning with 5180 followed by a series of number and letters.

These bars are known to have been sold in a 247g " Nestle Fav*rites" package of assorted peanut free snack size bars bearing UPC 0 59800 20958 8 and best before date 2006AL29. These individual coffee crisp bars may have also been sold as part of other snack size bar packages. Consumers are advised to check the individual Coffee Crisp bars to verify if they have the affected code 5180XXXX .

The affected product has been distributed nationally. There has been one reported reaction associated with this product.

Consumption of this product may cause a serious or life-threatening reaction in persons with allergies to peanut protein.

Nestle Canada Inc., North York, Ontario is voluntarily recalling the affected product from the marketplace. The CFIA is monitoring the effectiveness of the recall.

For more information, consumers and industry can call one of the following numbers: Nestle Consumer Services at 1-800-387- 4636 CFIA at 1 800 442-2342 / TTY 1 800 465-7735 (8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, Monday to Friday).

Sandra

On Feb 25, 2006

How could this possibly have happened if they are produced in a peanut-free facility? Wow, this is very disturbing. it's hard enough to trust . . . this doesn't help.

On Feb 25, 2006

Mistakes can happen. I'm glad they are recalling the products.

On Feb 25, 2006

Yes, mistakes happen, but how, when the plant is *supposedly* peanut free? Unless there was an employee issue or something, there shouldn't be any peanut in the plant to "accidentally" get in there. This really bites because a friend of mine was getting us a box of nestle minis (and may already have bought/sent it). Unless there's a reasonable explanation I think my trust in Nestle Canada has gone way down and I will just get holiday candies from VNF and Kellie's.

------------------ ============== [b]~Gale~[/b]

On Feb 26, 2006

I'm going to hold off making any judgements on the safety of Nestle until they explain what happened. I hope (and expect) that Nestle Canada will have something posted on their site in the coming days. If they don't, that will be very telling. The recall was just issued late Friday so I don't believe they've had time to react (interesting choice of words [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img].

I'll be watching closely as we live on Nestle's treats (large & mini) in our home.

On Feb 26, 2006

I phoned Nestle Cda. The recording said it was one isolated case. I will call back on Monday and hopefully speak to someone.

Our family has been eating Nestle products for years. I was, and still am very confident with Nestle products and will always continue to buy them. I will though refrain from buying the little coffee crisp bars until this gets cleared up and then continue to buy them also.

On Feb 26, 2006

One isolated case of someone reacting to peanut in a candy they made in a peanut free facility. I would be very wary and am losing trust until further explanation.

I mean, that just means that the peanut contamination found its way into a PA person's mouth. So, I would assume there is more contamination across the product line, just not consumed by a PA individual. KWIM??

How can peanut be in a nut free facility(peanut fee)? becca

On Feb 26, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by mharasym: [b] I hope (and expect) that Nestle Canada will have something posted on their site in the coming days. If they don't, that will be very telling.[/b]

Actually, I'm hoping they will make a public statement to the media. I don't actually expect to see it on their web-site because [i]personally[/i] I'm not at all impressed with their web-site.

I am surprised this has not been on the news AT ALL. Yes, it was one person that reacted. Yes, the person is fine. But this is Nestle - famous for being peanut free. I think we deserve an explanation.

On Feb 27, 2006

The product was distributed on June 29/2005 in the small assorted bags until April 29/2006. Nestle notified the Canadian Food inspection and the Allergy and Asthma Association.

I called the BT tv station and they are going to put it on the air at 8:30am this morning. He was very happy I gave him the information.

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandy1: [i]I just received this moments ago. Please Read:

ALLERGY ALERT - UNDECLARED PEANUT PROTEIN IN NESTLE COFFEE CRISP WAFER BAR SOLD IN PEANUT FREE ASSORTED SNACK SIZE PACKAGES

OTTAWA, February 25, 2006 - The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) and Nestle Canada Inc. are warning people with allergies to peanut protein not to consume the Nestle Coffee Crisp Wafer Bar described below. The affected product [b]may[/b] contain peanut protein which is not declared on the label.

[/i]

noting. does this mean that the one isolated incident was indeed a reaction to peanut protein? Have they confirmed there was even peanut protein in the item? If there was, have they confirmed the source?

On Feb 27, 2006

It was just aired.

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] noting. does this mean that the one isolated incident was indeed a reaction to peanut protein? Have they confirmed there was even peanut protein in the item? If there was, have they confirmed the source? [/b]

I am very confused. I have a friend who used to work for Nestle (she has moved on to a new company now) and she talked about the nut-free facility too.

This facility is totally peanut-free/nut-free. The employees are not even allowed to bring in nut products for lunch (ie: no peanut butter sandwiches, etc). It is strictly nut-free.

So I guess we'll just have to wait for more details from Nestle.

[This message has been edited by erik (edited February 27, 2006).]

On Feb 27, 2006

maybe one of the ingredients was tainted. like sugar stored in bin that had nuts in it at a previous location. who knows??? i never hear about recalls on the news. maybe its different in canada.

On Feb 27, 2006

I just got off the phone with Nestle. All they said was they are investigating. We will have to wait and see.

On Feb 27, 2006

MB - as usual you are one step ahead of me.

I'm wondering if they made the recall without actually having any product test positive. I sincerely believe Nestle takes the labelling of their products very seriously. A reaction was reported. But what is the protocol for a recall? Would they recall even before anything tested positive? It's possible.

On Feb 27, 2006

Yes, Nestle may just be investigating at the moment. The recall may just be "as a precaution" until they have completed the investigation. Perhaps someone reported a reaction. But is it definitely a "peanut reaction"? Maybe it was a reaction to something else (milk, wheat, etc) in the Coffee Crisp, or something else that they had eaten that day? I assume the investigation that is being carried out will assist in telling us what happened. They are probably just investigating the circumstances to determine all of the details, and perhaps there was no peanut contamination at all (considering it is a peanut-free facility, I find it difficult to determine how any peanut traces could even get into that facility in the first place)

On Feb 27, 2006

I don't know what BT tv is (unless you mean BreatkfastTelevision?)

tidina, recalls are not always on the news. I get them from the Canadian government and they include allergy recalls, safety recalls (e.g. car seats), and food poisoning. They only make it on the news when they affect a large portion of people. In this case, because these are labelled *Peanut Free* I think it is definitely news-worthy.

**********

Regarding the reported reaction....The mother ate the choc. bar and kissed her daughter. The daughter (pa) had a reaction. I'm still not convinced it's a peanut reaction to the Nestle choc. bar.

That's a reaction to a kiss on the cheek after a *trace amount* was eaten. (If it's to the choc. bar.)

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]MB - as usual you are one step ahead of me.

[/b]

awwwww, shucks. Remember, I [b]am[/b] thinking for two at the present. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]I don't know what BT tv is (unless you mean BreatkfastTelevision?)

tidina, recalls are not always on the news. I get them from the Canadian government and they include allergy recalls, safety recalls (e.g. car seats), and food poisoning. They only make it on the news when they affect a large portion of people. In this case, because these are labelled *Peanut Free* I think it is definitely news-worthy.

**********

Regarding the reported reaction....The mother ate the choc. bar and kissed her daughter. The daughter (pa) had a reaction. I'm still not convinced it's a peanut reaction to the Nestle choc. bar.

That's a reaction to a kiss on the cheek after a *trace amount* was eaten. (If it's to the choc. bar.)[/b]

maybe her lipstick/balm had peanut oil or almond in it or something?

If the child is sensitive to latex, there is a cross-reactivity between shea oil (in Coffee Crisp) and latex.

Adrienne

------------------ 30-year old survivor of severe peanut/tree nut allergy

On Feb 27, 2006

I don't think there is a problem with Nestle Cda either, but I am disappointed that Nestle didn't put out the recall just in case as a precautionary measure whether it was true or not.

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandy1: [b]I don't think there is a problem with Nestle Cda either, but I am disappointed that Nestle didn't put out the recall just in case as a precautionary measure whether it was true or not. [/b]

Theer is currently a recall. Nestle is giving refunds to customers.

On Feb 27, 2006

I don't understand what you mean Sandy1

quoted from the recall notice:

Quote:

Nestle Canada Inc., North York, Ontario is [b]voluntarily[/b] recalling the affected product from the marketplace.

Since there are no laws regarding labelling *may contain* I would hazard a guess that they are not legally obligated to recall. (Might be different because they say peanut free - but honestly, I don't think there are laws about that either. Can't break a non-existent law can you?)

Anyway, I think Nestle is probably as upset about this as we are.

On Feb 27, 2006

Sorry, That didn't come out right. What I meant to say was this should have been sent to the news room so all people can be aware.

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandy1: [b]Sorry, That didn't come out right. What I meant to say was this should have been sent to the news room so all people can be aware. [/b]

are all recalls sent to the "news room"? I mean, especially the "food allergy" ones?

On Feb 27, 2006

Not all - but i agree this one should.

There is a *media release* on their web-site with a letter. (It's copied in the thread in Main about this recall.)

*********

The mother that originally reported the reaction got a phone call from the CFIA this morning. The two coffee crisp bars they picked up from her did have peanut protein. The other bars in the same box did NOT have peanut protein.

On Feb 27, 2006

TO NESTLE SA As you are no doubt aware,the peanut allergic community in Canada is concerned about the revelation that certain "peant free"coffee crisp minis,nade by Nestle Canada's nut free facility,in fact were contaminated with peanut protein.Can you shed further accurate information concerning this?Your "peanut free" assurances are very appreciated by a growing segment of the Canadain peanut allergic population who have come to rely on the integrity of your peanut free production of treats favoured by allergic children their families,friends,schools,and summer camps.We all hope our concerns can be allayed,and that we can continue to trust and rely on these "nut free" treats.Thank You. President Nut Free Safe

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by gw_mom3: [b]Yes, mistakes happen, but how, when the plant is *supposedly* peanut free? Unless there was an employee issue or something, there shouldn't be any peanut in the plant to "accidentally" get in there. This really bites because a friend of mine was getting us a box of nestle minis (and may already have bought/sent it). Unless there's a reasonable explanation I think my trust in Nestle Canada has gone way down and I will just get holiday candies from VNF and Kellie's.

[/b]

My trust in the company hasn't changed. "I" personally will wait for an explanation and in the mean time still eat other Nestle products.

On Feb 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Codyman: [b] My trust in the company hasn't changed. "I" personally will wait for an explanation and in the mean time still eat other Nestle products.[/b]

I won't take any chances with my kids. If it was *me* with the allergy, then maybe. Then again maybe not-I'd hate for something to happen to me and have to worry about who would make sure my dd only eats safe foods. Anyway if I had any recalled food from Canada I'd be SOL. It's way too long of a drive to take it back.

Until I find out how peanut protein got into candy bars made in a peanut free plant (that the company actually advertises is a peanut free plant), I'm passing on all things Nestle (Canada-I boycott Nestle USA anyway). It's not as if I can go to the store and buy it anyway-I have to arrange for someone to send it to me and luckily, my friend hadn't bought it yet.

------------------ ============== [b]~Gale~[/b]

On Mar 13, 2006

I just got off the phone with a representative from Nestle regarding their Coffee Crisp product. The representative said the peanut protein was found ON the chocolate bar NOT IN the chocolate bar. She also said that the investigation is still on going.

She told me that Nestle keeps chocolate bars from each line/batch and not just a few but MANY MANY. She said out of the 900,000 plus chocolate bars it was the only one that had peanut protein and again stressed it was ON the chocolate bar.

She told me that Nestle takes food allergies very seriously.

On Mar 13, 2006

good to hear.

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Codyman: [b] She said out of the 900,000 plus chocolate bars it was the only one that had peanut protein and again stressed it was ON the chocolate bar. [/b]

What concerns me about this is that the CFIA picked up [b]two[/b] sealed bars and they [b]both[/b] tested positive.

This comment makes me feel [i]less[/i] secure with Nestle.

On Mar 15, 2006

how did the protein get there? someone eat peanuts or peanut butter and touch a couple and then realize he better wash up???

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by tidina: [b]how did the protein get there? someone eat peanuts or peanut butter and touch a couple and then realize he better wash up???[/b]

Peanuts and peanut butter are banned from this facility. Employees can not bring any peanut products into the building or in their lunches.

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] What concerns me about this is that the CFIA picked up two sealed bars and they both tested positive.

This comment makes me feel [i]less[/i] secure with Nestle. [/b]

If it was intentional sabatoge by a disgruntled employee, it could happen at any company. Even though I may feel less secure about these Nestle products, it also means I am less secure about all food products.

Chapmans ice cream, Dare cookies, etc.. a disgruntled employee could sabotage any of these products with peanut.

I'm sure you all remember the Tylenol incident, and the threats by animal rights activists to poison Mars bars, etc...

Scary times we live in.

[This message has been edited by erik (edited March 15, 2006).]

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by erik: [b] Peanuts and peanut butter are banned from this facility. Employees can not bring any peanut products into the building or in their lunches.

[/b]

how do they enforce this?

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] how do they enforce this? [/b]

I'm not sure... I assume if they catch any employees bringing peanut products to work, the employee is fired? Maybe someone else at PA.COM has contacted Nestle and has more details as I have no idea how this is enforced.

On Mar 15, 2006

Just want to let everyone knows that I have contacted numerous media including Global and CTV regarding this recall and none of them has replied nor did a story on this. I guess it's not news-worthy because there has only been one case and the victim was not dead!

I have also contacted a couple of lawyers in regards to this. And again, because the damage done was not great(my dd is still alive and well), there is no point in persuing any legal action. The cost of lawyer is much greater than the compensation.

I will not be expecting any information release by the CFIA as the information now becomes private under the law. Maybe Nestle will tell us what happen when they found the problem, maybe not.

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by erik: [b] If it was intentional sabatoge by a disgruntled employee, it could happen at any company. Even though I may feel less secure about these Nestle products, it also means I am less secure about all food products. [/b]

Erik, I completely agree with this.

My comment was in connection with what Nestle is saying NOW.

It wasn't [i]just[/i] one bar. It was the one that PAMom ate, and the two that were picked up from her home. (I'm no math wizard - but 1 + 2 = 3) So, that's 3 out of 3.

OK, thinking while I type here. Maybe what they meant was it was [i]only[/i] one batch. All other batches were safe.

********

Codyman, could it be that what she said/meant was it was the only batch containing peanut protein?

Maybe I'll explain why this is an important point to me. (Skip this part if you don't care.)

I do trust Nestle. I have continued eating Nestle products - just not any of the mini-bars. I expect that I will eventually eat them again, but just not right now.

I agree that Nestle IS taking this very seriously. I believe they take their *peanut free* symbol and status very seriously.

Very little information is coming from them about this. That IS understandable. They cannot say anything until they are sure. Will they ever discover how this happened? We all hope so - but I have to admit that it's possible they won't.

BUT, if what little information they release in inaccurate - I will have a hard time trusting them. If they say it was only [i]one[/i] bar, and I [i]know[/i] it was more then one - then I have to question what other information is inaccurate.

*******

I hope it's clear that I am NOT trying to bash Nestle.

*******

Regarding enforcing no peanut products by employees .... One plant (I don't remember what company) it was actually part of an employees job agreement, or job description. Several employees said that if they brought it into the building EVER they lose their job. No second chance. This was made clear before they were officially hired for the job.

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] Regarding enforcing no peanut products by employees .... One plant (I don't remember what company) it was actually part of an employees job agreement, or job description. Several employees said that if they brought it into the building EVER they lose their job. No second chance. This was made clear before they were officially hired for the job.[/b]

great. but how do they find out? is it after someone is injured? and if so, is that the kind of enforcement you want?

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] My comment was in connection with what Nestle is saying NOW.

It wasn't [i]just[/i] one bar. It was the one that PAMom ate, and the two that were picked up from her home. (I'm no math wizard - but 1 + 2 = 3) So, that's 3 out of 3.

OK, thinking while I type here. Maybe what they meant was it was [i]only[/i] one batch. All other batches were safe.

********

[/b]

I'm wondering too. I mean, was it three? and did one of those three just happen to find a family with pa? or was it an entire batch? and if so, that's a whole lot if sabotage, or carelessness, or breaking factory rules is involved. and still, depending on the size of the batch and number of batches, and amount of protein, would it just happen to find a pa family? KWIM? I'd like to hear more from Nestle.

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Codyman: [b]I just got off the phone with a representative from Nestle regarding their Coffee Crisp product. The representative said the peanut protein was found ON the chocolate bar NOT IN the chocolate bar. She also said that the investigation is still on going.

[/b]

I just got off the phone with Nestle Canada. I asked specifically what was told above and the lady said she has no knowledge of that. And that no information will be released until they find exactly what happened. Investigation is still on going. Basically, she didn't tell me anything. So here, different information were given by the same company, which story do you prefer?

As for the whole thing about sabotage or not, I believe the problem was with the whole batch. What's the chance of those 3 were only landed in my house? Or maybe just my luck?

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by PAmum: [b] I just got off the phone with Nestle Canada. I asked specifically what was told above and the lady said she has no knowledge of that. And that no information will be released until they find exactly what happened. Investigation is still on going. Basically, she didn't tell me anything. So here, different information were given by the same company, which story do you prefer?

As for the whole thing about sabotage or not, I believe the problem was with the whole batch. What's the chance of those 3 were only landed in my house? Or maybe just my luck? [/b]

PAmum: Are you the "one" that had a reaction and let CFIA and Nestle know about it?? OR Are you also username "Tracey" who had the grandmother eat a chocolate bar, give a kiss and then had a reaction and posted it here on pa.com??

Quote:

Originally posted by PAmum: [b]So here, different information were given by the same company, which story do you prefer?[/b]

I don't prefer any story, I prefer the truth. I had actually phoned Nestle regarding a different product and during the conversation mentioned my children were allergic to peanuts and nuts and wanted to know if all Coffee Crisp products in question (regarding the peanut protein) were pulled off the shelves. The CSR was very friendly and it didn't seem that she was giving me a story. She did say the investigation is still on going. When you phone Nestle there is a # to push if you want info regarding Coffee Crisp. I have yet to listen to it, as I was phoning for another reason.

Quote:

Originally posted by PAmum: [b]Just want to let everyone knows that I have contacted numerous media including Global and CTV regarding this recall and none of them has replied nor did a story on this. I guess it's not news-worthy because there has only been one case and the victim was not dead![/b]

I have seen info regarding Nestle ~ Coffee Crisp on CTV news.

On Mar 15, 2006

Codyman, I was the one who complained to CFIA and the recall was issued in Feb. My dd was the one who had the reaction. And no, I am not "Tracey", am yet to hear from her though.

Please don't take me wrong, I also prefer the truth. I used the word "story" only to refer to what was told. I didn't mean to be sarcastic in any way.

The CSR I spoke to today was very nice too. But she hadn't heard of where the protein was found. What she was able to tell me was exactly what was on the recording.

I can't believe I miss the news on CTV. Oh well, the important thing is that it was broadcast. But was it just regarding the recall? Did they persue further on how the coffee crisp was contaminated? I think this kind of investigation is best done by the media because of their perseverance.

[This message has been edited by PAmum (edited March 15, 2006).]

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] great. but how do they find out? is it after someone is injured? and if so, is that the kind of enforcement you want?

[/b]

Is that different from any laws? Do you get arrested [i]before[/i] you attempt to shoot someone? or only after?

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] Is that different from any laws? Do you get arrested [i]before[/i] you attempt to shoot someone? or only after?[/b]

I'm talking about quality control. Not laws. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I'm used to institutions that have stopgaps in place. [i]in order to prevent sentinel events.[/i]

I mean, if you have a goal, there should be precautions in place to achieve that goal. Like preventing medication errors, for example. There are 5 "r"'s of medication administration. It is something that, through many aspects, including training, education, policy, and [i]redundancy[/i], for example is implemented.

It's not enough to say: "Medication errors should not happen." or "Medication errors are not allowed." or "[i]Those who make medication errors will be fired.[/i]"

it's more about: "This is how we strive to ensure correct medication administration." [i]In order to prevent mistakes.[/i]

There are safeguards in place to ensure correct medication administration. I mean, as opposed to saying: "If you make a medication error, you will be fired."

KWIM? not saying that's the methodology Nestle uses, just asking what the methodology is. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 15, 2006

You'd have to ask Nestle for the specifics. When I go into a hospital, I don't usually ask all those specifics. I rely on them to know what they are doing - have all the safeguards in place - do everything correctly. And yes, I rely on companies that say they are peanut-free to do all that too. (It's really just an extension of all the other safe-guards a company has in place. I don't expect to find hair in my canned pasta - but I don't specifically ask the company how that prevent hair from getting in their. I'm pretty sure they don't shave all their employees heads - although honestly, I've never asked. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Codyman: [b]PAmum: Are you the "one" that had a reaction and let CFIA and Nestle know about it?? OR Are you also username "Tracey" who had the grandmother eat a chocolate bar, give a kiss and then had a reaction and posted it here on pa.com?? [/b]

Actually, PAmum is the mother of the "one" that had a reaction.

She posted about it [i]before[/i] contacting CFIA. She posted the day CFIA picked up the [b]sealed[/b] candybars. It was a little over a week after that - when CFIA sent out the allergy alert and recall notice. It was specifically the bar PAmum posted about. The mini coffee crisp bars from the Nestle Favourites box.

PAmum's daughter was recently diagnosed - and she has been posting under the same name at another board. Posting is to similar - I'm sure it is the same person.

Tracey has been at pa.com since 2001. Not sure why she has not come back into the other thread.

********

PAmum, personally, I want to thank you for reporting this to CFIA. It has resulted in my *safe little zone* shrinking, but I'd rather have my zone shrink then have a reaction that could have been prevented. I also thought it was quite cool that you chose to come to this board to give first hand answers.

*********

Edited because I didn't realize who Codyman was talking about - Tracey.

[This message has been edited by AnnaMarie (edited March 15, 2006).]

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] Tracey has been at pa.com since 2001. Not sure why she has not come back into the other thread.[/b]

Tracey posted about Coffee Crisp here: [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/007383.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/007383.html[/url]

On Mar 15, 2006

You saw my original post didn't you Erik. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img]

I'm starting to think I need a little *kicking self in butt* smilie. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

On Mar 15, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]You saw my original post didn't you Erik. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img][/b]

yes [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] hehe have a good evening!

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]You'd have to ask Nestle for the specifics. When I go into a hospital, I don't usually ask all those specifics. I rely on them to know what they are doing - have all the safeguards in place - do everything correctly. And yes, I rely on companies that say they are peanut-free to do all that too. (It's really just an extension of all the other safe-guards a company has in place. I don't expect to find hair in my canned pasta - but I don't specifically ask the company how that prevent hair from getting in their. I'm pretty sure they don't shave all their employees heads - although honestly, I've never asked. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )[/b]

So, if you were going in for major surgery, and you found out the hospital you were going to have surgery at recently removed the wrong limb of a patient, or operated on the wrong patient entirely...........would you question what *safeguards* were in place, either then, or afterwards, that would prevent that in the future?

If you chose a different hospital, would you ask *them* similiar questions? Would you find yourself, from then on, looking more closely at a whole gamut of institutions, and situations, not just hospitals. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Maybe it's because I've been deeply immersed in certain pathways, that I just naturally question the how-to's when presented with goals. KWIM? Or maybe it's just me. Period.

On Mar 16, 2006

Hi, I am the mom who posted regarding my son's recent reaction. His reaction occured after being kissed by his grandmother who had just eaten a Coffee Crisp. The CFIA did come and pick up the other Coffee Crisp's that were in the same package. They tested these and the results were negetive. Having said this they obviously could not test the actual bar that she ate. I am still 100% convinced that this was the cause of the reaction as he had not eaten anything new and the reaction started exactly where his granmather kissed him on his cheek. I supposed that we will never really know 100% for sure. It was just too coincidental for me. Luckily his reaction was minor however we did treat it quite serious and went directly to the hospital. Hope this sheds some light.

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] So, if you were going in for major surgery, and you found out the hospital you were going to have surgery at recently removed the wrong limb of a patient[/b]

Seems to happen quite often. I read that thousands of Americans die each year due to medication errors at hospitals. Here is a recent incident from Scotland posted today on cnn:

[url="http://edition.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/03/16/wrong.kidney.reut/index.html"]http://edition.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/03/16/wrong.kidney.reut/index.html[/url]

I try to stay away from hospitals and medication as much as possible.

[This message has been edited by erik (edited March 16, 2006).]

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by erik: [b] Seems to happen quite often. I read that thousands of Americans die each year due to medication errors at hospitals. Here is a recent incident from Scotland:

[url="http://edition.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/03/16/wrong.kidney.reut/index.html"]http://edition.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/03/16/wrong.kidney.reut/index.html[/url]

I try to stay away from hospitals and medication as much as possible.[/b]

not saying how accurate that is, might vary depending on where you are, but look at the complexity and variety that is served. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Pretty impressive, if you ask me. That said, I think medical institutions do a lot of introspective, retrospective self-examination. Don't ya think? I mean, it's out there. Publishing studies even on adverse events. We look to improve. We even make studies that improve the identification of mistakes that might otherwise go unnoticed. KWIM? At the risk of seeming to be horn tooting, but not knowing how else to put it: It's part of an ethical perspective. And maybe indicative of the general nature of the people who go into such service. I mean, it's been said we have a tendency a neurotic group. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Good thing, tho, huh?

I mean, it's not a static environment. It's not a conveyor belt. Even down to pathogens. Always changing. We need to keep up with that change. What works today, we might find was not really the *best*, even tho what we knew at that time previous seemed to point to it, or ........something innovative comes on the scene and we find something better. That said, Mother Nature is always swinging something "new and improved" and more resistant our way. Not to mention the role individual genetics plays. I mean, to a point, we depend on good historians regarding patients. Either from themselves or others, although we can adapt to a lack of information. But again, to a point.

All said, I find it pretty neato that I can walk into a room, meet someone near the brink of death possibly, and be comfortable giving complex care to this person I've never met before. Successfully, even. (and sometimes, success isn't measured in complete recovery or even extending life span. Although that is commonly the "goal". )

All in all, it says something about the system, don't you think? I mean, aside from putting a wrapper on a candy bar. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 16, 2006

and hey, speaking of Americans, you're link was from Scotland. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Maybe a search on Canadian hospitals? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] I mean, how many Canadian health care personnel cross the border to work in "American" hospitals again?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

On Mar 16, 2006

Tracey, thanks for updating us.

While I completely understand your feelings, and I would probably feel that way too if I was you - I can't help but think it was probably something else. Lipstick, lipbalm, something she ate.

I do think you did the right thing to have it checked - and I also appreciate that you posted about it here.

On Mar 16, 2006

MB, if I ever require surgery on a limb, I will probably write on the other limb. For example, requiring an operation on my right knee - I will write [i]wrong knee[/i] on my left leg. This is because my friend had the wrong leg operated on. I've also heard of a woman who had the wrong breast removed.

But, honestly, there are so many things I have to trust the hospital to do correctly. Even if I went and asked *how do you make sure I get the correct amount of medication? the correct medication?* I don't know enough about the entire running of the hospital, or that particular ward, for me to fully comprehend a complete answer. And even if I did - does their telling me mean that they are actually doing it that way? I would have to follow them around for months to see that it's done properly.

Some things -- I just have to take them on their word. My doctor has a framed diploma on his wall telling me when and where he graduated. I've never actually called that university and verified that he graduated there. I doubt very many people have. (You might be the exception MB. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b]MB, if I ever require surgery on a limb, I will probably write on the other limb. For example, requiring an operation on my right knee - I will write [i]wrong knee[/i] on my left leg. This is because my friend had the wrong leg operated on. I've also heard of a woman who had the wrong breast removed.

But, honestly, there are so many things I have to trust the hospital to do correctly. Even if I went and asked *how do you make sure I get the correct amount of medication? the correct medication?* I don't know enough about the entire running of the hospital, or that particular ward, for me to fully comprehend a complete answer. And even if I did - does their telling me mean that they are actually doing it that way? I would have to follow them around for months to see that it's done properly.

Some things -- I just have to take them on their word. My doctor has a framed diploma on his wall telling me when and where he graduated. I've never actually called that university and verified that he graduated there. I doubt very many people have. (You might be the exception MB. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )[/b]

well, I *do* look up licenses. When it's public information. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

anywhoooooooooo. I *think* they *do* write on limbs for surgery. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] But I could be wrong. I'm not an OR nurse. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

But at this point, (and I think I questioned even before, because I couldn't figure out how they *might* do it themselves, I think we are due an explanation. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] From Nestle. But hey, maybe that's just me. But I'm not the one making the "peanut free" exclamation, now, am I? Would you ask the same of a school where there was an incident involving "peanut free"?

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b]and hey, speaking of Americans, you're link was from Scotland. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Maybe a search on Canadian hospitals? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] [/b]

Oh, I just commented on "American hospitals" as we are bombarded with American news here in Canada (ie: CNN, etc). We hear more news about George Bush than we do about Stephen Harper. I am sure that Canadian hospitals have similar errors as well. In fact, I'm positive as I've heard stories too.

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] Would you ask the same of a school where there was an incident involving "peanut free"?[/b]

As you know, my son is not pa, but he does have an allergy to insects.

His school seems to be very allergy aware. In most respects I'm very pleased with what they do re; allergies. However, an incident last year (actually two) caused me a lot of concern. This year I went in and spoke to the principal. At the beginning of the meeting she thought she would have all the answers I wanted. By the end - she had changed school policy due to my concern.

Regarding Nestle - we now have a concern and we are asking for answers. I feel it's reasonable to give them time to investigate. Whatever happened (if it happened in the plant) happened almost a year ago. If they popped up an answer within 24 hours, then (personally) I would think it was a problem they were aware of and chose to ignore. Taking and [i]needing[/i] time to thoroughly investigate seems completely appropriate to me.

How much do you question each and every company regarding how the ensure there are no germs in the prepackaged foods you buy? Could you explain in detail how each individual company ensures this? I have seen recalls due to food contamination. I will avoid that product for a while - but not necessarily for ever. If one company repeatedly has recalls then I would not purchase from that company any more. It's the same (for me) with peanut-free. This is the first recall in how many years? It happened. I'm not happy it happened. But, my going and demanding details of their day-to-day processes will not help the situation. Won't even help it for me. If I were to demand details regarding the peanut-free then I would have to demand the same regarding botulism. Peanut-free is only a risk to me. Botulism is a risk to my entire family.

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnaMarie: [b] How much do you question each and every company regarding how the ensure there are no germs in the prepackaged foods you buy? Could you explain in detail how each individual company ensures this? [/b]

I have a good idea of what they'd probably expect. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] I make myself familiar with industry standards. That said, I don't question each and every company. [i]I accept there is a risk[/i]. I don't put much faith in "______"-free anything. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

As my father said, "When you go out in the public, [i]you are in the public[/i], when you are in your home, you are in your home."

(paraphrased, difficulty in translating from his language to English).

I mean, dang [i]meteors[/i].

On Mar 16, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] I don't put much faith in "______"-free anything. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [/b]

Maybe it's just a [i]Canadian[/i] thing. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

On Mar 16, 2006

annamarie, can i ask what were the incidents in school? my son is starting kindergarten in september and im concerned although the school nurse and principal seem very allergy aware. the nurse keeps a temp. gage in with the epi pens and says it never goes lower than 70 or above 75. i had a problem at preschool with pens going to 57.9 which im sure is fine but still it wasnt the perfect temp. i plan to let my son sit at peanut free lunch table in first grade but am worried what that will make him feel like emotionally.

On Mar 16, 2006

tidina, as I said, my son carries an epi-pen due to an insect allergy. Last year his class went on a school field trip to an environmental place - outdoor, in the woods. I volunteered, but the teacher already had enough volunteers so I couldn't go. She also would not promise that my son would be with her. I ended up calling the place they were going - and from them I was assured my son would either be with his teacher or a teacher from the environmental place. They were aware of allergies, and several employees have epi-pens due to insect allergies. So - eventually I was OK about the trip.

I spoke to his teacher after that, and I thought she understood my concern. BUT, in the spring they had a trip to the zoo - another place I consider high risk for my son. AFTER the trip, I found out he had been with a parent - not the teacher. The parent was quite nervous because as they were leaving he was very casually told "Oh, XXX has an epi-pen because he's allergic to bugs" And the parent is thinking What's an epi-pen???????

So, I went to the principal to get her agreement that EVERY school trip, my son is either with his teacher or with me. (I don't feel it's necessary to demand that I be allowed on every trip.) She was not pleased with what had happened last year - and changed school policy. All students that have epi-pens (and some other health concerns or medications) will be with their own teacher or their own parent from now on.

I realize this is a small thing compared to what a lot of parents here have gone through - but I'm pleased to have made a positive difference for all the students. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

*************

Back to your regularly scheduled coffee crisp discussion......

On Mar 16, 2006

i think no matter how many parents volunteered they shouldve asked one of them not to come and let you go. my goodness!! i complained to my MOMS CLUB and they called me and we are working on new policies. im writing a few tidbits about allergies in every months newsletter now. oh sorry, back to recall!!

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