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Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 2:12am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Gail W., good, I did find the post to you where I had said that I would find out what my lawyer had said I would have to do.
As for your post after that directed to me with two questions, I'm going to be completely and utterly honest. I have no idea what either of the two questions mean or what you're trying to ask me so I can't answer them. No idea whatsoever. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img]
Last post, period.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 2:16am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Hi Cindy,
I think Gail's question refers to an earlier discussion between Anna Marie and Momma Bear and River, but I don't remember the details... regarding peanut-free not being truly peanut-free as a child could bring in a Snicker's bar hidden in his coat, so only a moron would believe peanut-free meant it was impossible for a peanut product to be sneaked in.. or soemthing like that.. actually, it may have been River's post I think? And Anna Marie joked that maybe River said she was a moron?
hmm. I doubt this post will clarify anything but maybe I'll find the old post later and raise it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 2:27am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Yes, I am paraphrasing statements that I recall river having made in 2 previous dicussions/threads. I may not have them precisely... but regardless, I'd like to hear your response.

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 2:56am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

WOW! Has this been busy since I came in last night!
Quote:Originally posted by Cindy:
[b]I enjoy Cam's Mom's threads and I wanted to participate in this one to-day and that's why I blundered in. Perhaps I shouldn't have.[/b]
Thank you Cindy, I too enjoy your threads. And I'm glad that you did add to this discussion b/c your experience and opinions are valued. I hope that you will continue to contribute today as well. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by Erik:
[b]Using the term reduce the risk doesn't say what it means... by saying peanut-free it will emphasize the goal which is to keep the classroom peanut free.
Reduce the risk could refer to anything... car accidents, etc.. by saying it is a peanut-free classroom we emphasize what the goal is.[/b]
My opinion totally.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Gail,
Did you "scream"?
Did you "fight"?
Did you [i]need[/i] to?[/b]
She was very fortunate and amoung very few if she didn't. It is very frustrating and emotionally draining to say the least to deal with the schools...it's a heck of alot easier to pull out and say forget it.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Ah. A fundamental difference in [i]experience[/i]?
In my profession, It is my understanding that I may be held accountable for things I do not see, and am not aware of when they occur.[/b]
Not neccessarily a [i]fundamental difference in experience[/i]....more like a difference in how we put our views to different situations in life. My [i]experience[/i] and liability as a Licensed Realtor is that I am accountable for things that I have knowledge about or that I can visually see, but if I can't see it and have no knowledge it's there than I'm not liable by state law.
However, I don't put my professional knowledge and experience to every detail of every situation...one set of rules can't apply to every situation. Your healthcare experience and standards aren't standards for every situation.
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W.:
[b]Yes, I am paraphrasing statements that I recall river having made in 2 previous dicussions/threads. I may not have them precisely... but regardless, I'd like to hear your response.[/b]
I still believe that the term peanut-free has the same bearing as drug/gun free, no one literally thinks that the place is 100% free of drugs and guns, therefore, why does the general public or the people who use this label want to think differently on the peanut free label. It's a contradictory use of a term when it applies one way to gun/drug free and totally different for the term peanut free.
[This message has been edited by Cam's Mom (edited May 07, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 3:31am
river's picture
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Joined: 07/15/1999 - 09:00

Schools that use the term drug-free in their policies:
[url="http://www.usd458.k12.ks.us/les/handbook/drugfree"]http://www.usd458.k12.ks.us/les/handbook/drugfree[/url]
[url="http://mililaniuka.com/Handbook/HandbookDrugs.asp"]http://mililaniuka.com/Handbook/HandbookDrugs.asp[/url]
[url="http://www.ops.org/fclub/Drug-Free.html"]http://www.ops.org/fclub/Drug-Free.html[/url]
[url="http://www.upson.k12.ga.us/ulsp/handbook22.html"]http://www.upson.k12.ga.us/ulsp/handbook22.html[/url]
[url="http://connect.juilliard.edu/staffhandbook/policies.asp"]http://connect.juilliard.edu/staffhandbook/policies.asp[/url]
[url="http://www.sahuarita.k12.az.us/site/shs/shs_hb/shs_hb2.html"]http://www.sahuarita.k12.az.us/site/shs/shs_hb/shs_hb2.html[/url]
Anyway...it goes on and on and on.
No one is afraid to use the term drug-free because it is always accepted for what it is:
a call for action and a plainly worded expectation
It is not a legal description of the schools and it is not a guarantee.
Why then would this message change when the word 'peanut' is substituted for 'drug'?
"Peanut-free" in an ingredients label is a legal description and guarantee of the product within.
"Peanut-free" on the door of a classroom has the same significance and meaning as the sign beside it that says, "drug-free."
Drug-free gun-free signs:
[url="http://www.street-signs-usa.com/48/cat48.htm?419"]http://www.street-signs-usa.com/48/cat48.htm?419[/url]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 3:46am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b]Schools that use the term drug-free in their policies:
[url="http://www.usd458.k12.ks.us/les/handbook/drugfree"]http://www.usd458.k12.ks.us/les/handbook/drugfree[/url]
[url="http://mililaniuka.com/Handbook/HandbookDrugs.asp"]http://mililaniuka.com/Handbook/HandbookDrugs.asp[/url]
[url="http://www.ops.org/fclub/Drug-Free.html"]http://www.ops.org/fclub/Drug-Free.html[/url]
[url="http://www.upson.k12.ga.us/ulsp/handbook22.html"]http://www.upson.k12.ga.us/ulsp/handbook22.html[/url]
[url="http://connect.juilliard.edu/staffhandbook/policies.asp"]http://connect.juilliard.edu/staffhandbook/policies.asp[/url]
[url="http://www.sahuarita.k12.az.us/site/shs/shs_hb/shs_hb2.html"]http://www.sahuarita.k12.az.us/site/shs/shs_hb/shs_hb2.html[/url]
Anyway...it goes on and on and on.
No one is afraid to use the term drug-free because it is always accepted for what it is:
a call for action and a plainly worded expectation
It is not a legal description of the schools and it is not a guarantee.
Why then would this message change when the word 'peanut' is substituted for 'drug'?
"Peanut-free" in an ingredients label is a legal description and guarantee of the product within.
"Peanut-free" on the door of a classroom has the same significance and meaning as the sign beside it that says, "drug-free."
Drug-free gun-free signs:
[url="http://www.street-signs-usa.com/48/cat48.htm?419"]http://www.street-signs-usa.com/48/cat48.htm?419[/url]
[/b]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gail W:
"First, thank you Lana. I've been frustrated w/ the boards and lost my cool. Thanks for helping me out.
As sarah (williamsmummy) posted today in another thread:
[i]"I feel uncomfortable with nut bans, for nut bans we need nut inspectors!"[/i]
[b]Who are the drug and gun inspectors?
Our government. The school has a higher authority who regulates guns and drugs through licensing and laws. To declare themselves "drug free" or "gun free" doesn't take on any liability because the law places that repsonsibility elsewhere. Schools aren't compelled to take on a regulatory role because our already laws do.
Who are the "nut inspectors"?
Since no licensing or law exists re peanuts (as w/ guns and drugs), the school would be assuming this regulatory role if they took on the "peanut free" claim.
[/b]"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originaly posted by MommaBear:
"[b]HALLELUJAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH![/b]
[url="http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live"]http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely humming to myself. Loudly."
Your thoughts on this, river? (aside from the musical score........) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 4:01am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

IMHO, the "nut inspectors" would be the administration and it's employees of the building/class that the Peanut Free sign was posted outside of. Just like the Gun Free and Drug Free building, whom ever is in charge and their employees are reponsible for their policy.
The state and/or federal government have "rules/policies" for guns and drugs...they are only enforcers...if the school has a peanut free "rule/policy" then its the "law" of the principal, therefore he is the enforcer.

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 4:07am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

River, thank you very much for posting the web address for schools that call themselves drug free. I honestly didn't know any did.
As for why a school would feel it's OK to call itself drug free when in reality they cannot guarantee there are no drugs, but don't feel they can do that with peanuts I have an idea.
The schools using the term drug-free are American, whereas peanut bans seem to be in Canada. We don't use the term drug-free that I'm aware of.
There is much more in here I want to comment on, but boy, is my head spinning.
Hi Cindy, you lurker you [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 4:28am
erik's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]
The schools using the term drug-free are American, whereas peanut bans seem to be in Canada. We don't use the term drug-free that I'm aware of.[/b]
That is true.
The USA: drug-free schools everywhere but they can't handle the concept of a peanut-free school - maybe a communist conspiracy? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Canada: peanut-free schools everywhere but no drug-free schools.. in fact, the government is about to de-criminalize marijuana (definitely a communist conspiracy?)! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Wonder what George Bush will think of that??!!
Canada and the USA are two distinct entities.
Another example:
We say "icing" (on cake), they say "frosting" (on cake).. ;P
I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too (unless it is peanut-free?)
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 07, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/07/2003 - 4:29am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] Have you come across this thread?:
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000991.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000991.html[/url]
Aside from "first aid training", I am wondering what experience, education, and licensure will facilitate the fullfillment of such "expectations"? Is this a "delegation" issue?
[/b]
Mind if I reply to this under the original thread? Actually, a partial response here, then I'm going to the other thread.
As for *my* expectations, I think first aid training, with a willingness to add specific things as needed (for example epi-training if a student with fa enrolls in the school) is sufficient.
Education: they are teachers, so have a reasonable amount of intelligence and education. Their training is working specifically with children.
Experience: again, they are teachers and have been working with children.
Licence: I *personally* don't feel anything beyond first aid/CPR is necessary.
***I reserve the right to change my opinion based on discussions and future experiences I may have - after all I'm back to square one with the schools - in JK again***

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