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Posted on: Wed, 12/17/2003 - 9:38am
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Quote:Originally posted by Alternative to Mainstream:
[b]
I still stand by, despite my rant, that I feel other children's knapsacks should be checked for food that could KILL or seriously harm my child. The same as a gun or drugs could.
[/b]
Not saying it's a bad idea, not saying it isn't. Just saying it *might* behoove us as a community to understand the *system*. To know how *communicate* needs, *manage* situations, *identify* keyholes. (For example.)
Even if we don't particularly care for mode operandi, but don't have particular moral-ethical dillemmas with the same, possibly it might serve a *need*...... Speaking as someone who has learned the *value* of such lessons over almost 36 years. I have quite a collection of potholders. I *like* to think of it as somewhat *effortless* and *undetectable* at this point in my life. (Considering, on most occasions, I am the only one "in on it".) It's very *satisfying*. Like climbing a mountain in heels. Maybe I'm wrong.

Posted on: Sun, 12/28/2003 - 7:42am
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I can't say that I've read this whole thread, but I had to laugh today when I drove past a Jr. High school and there was a sign posted on the outside gate:
"This is a Gum Free school." Yes, that is gum, not gun. It reminded me of the title of this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sun, 12/28/2003 - 9:19am
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Quote:Originally posted by Love my C:
[b]I
"This is a Gum Free school." Yes, that is gum, not gun. It reminded me of the title of this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/b]
Go figure!!!!
They can make a GUN Free School!!!
They can make a GUM free School!!!
Some one PLEASE tell me why in the h--- or world is it so HARD to make a PEANUT FREE SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
GUNS KILL
Does gum kill?
PEANUTS can kill childern with Peanut allergies.
Go figure!!!!
NO CHILD LOST TO ALLERGIES
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Sun, 12/28/2003 - 9:53am
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]
Some one PLEASE tell me why in the h--- or world is it so HARD to make a PEANUT FREE SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
[/b]
Could it be due to a possible lack of Defineability, Enforceability, Achievability, Monitorability?
and maybe also the possible lack of agreement within the PA community itself?
Just wondering.

Posted on: Sun, 12/28/2003 - 10:25am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] Could it be due to a possible lack of Defineability, Enforceability, Achievability, Monitorability?
and maybe also the possible lack of agreement within the PA community itself?
Just wondering.
[/b]
(Ability key word)
Defineability-- Guns or peanuts or GUM don't come in to the school.It is a rule,we teach our childern every day to follow the RULES.
Enforceability--If GUNS come in do you take them away? YES they can kill one or two or more.We did not ask for our childern to have a food allergy that can end there life.
Achievability-- yes it is with a little or a lot of hard work,depends on how you look at the glass (half empty or half full)
Monitorability-- yes it is.
I am willing to call it PEANUT AWARE,as long has you have the same results in the end,and that is to save a childs LIFE.
Agreement within the PA community itself?
I am will to work very HARD with the school on finding the right Plan for my dd Little V.
NO CHILD LOST TO ALLERGIES
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 2:03am
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b] (Ability key word)
Defineability-- Guns or peanuts or GUM don't come in to the school.It is a rule,we teach our childern every day to follow the RULES.
Enforceability--If GUNS come in do you take them away? YES they can kill one or two or more.We did not ask for our childern to have a food allergy that can end there life.
Achievability-- yes it is with a little or a lot of hard work,depends on how you look at the glass (half empty or half full)
Monitorability-- yes it is.
I am willing to call it PEANUT AWARE,as long has you have the same results in the end,and that is to save a childs LIFE.
Agreement within the PA community itself?
I am will to work very HARD with the school on finding the right Plan for my dd Little V.
[/b]
Defineability: Tip of the Iceberg here, but how does defineability apply to "May Contains, Processed On's, Manufactured In's, Made in the Same's"....... and the term "Peanut Free"/"Peanut Aware"/"Reduce the Risk"??????
Homebaked Goods?
Loose Goods?
Other Medical "Necessities/Issues"?
Enforceabilitiy: Tip of the Iceberg here, but how does "Public Health Law, Criminal Law, Civil Rights, Other ADA Issues, Job Descriptions, Legal Issues (for example)" fit into [b]The Big Picture[/b]? How does "Motivation" fit into [b]The Big Picture[/b]? Are there conflicts? Whether "we" see our needs as paramount or not........... are there conflicts?
Achievability: Half empty.... half full......, [i]still 4 oz. in an 8 oz. glass[/i] not considering shape or visual estimation. No?
Tip of the Iceberg here, but would you say People have different ideas, needs, experiences, quite possibly were not all wired the same, are we? (personal reference) Perspective in a 360 degree room?
PPP, SoC, Key Players. Hate "winging it". Gotta think how we made it to the moon. Did we "wing it"? If I had to choose my child's life over mankind making it to the moon.... [i]I'd choose my child's life.[/i] I will never never never never place either of them in a "winging it" situation again -----especially where/when their life is at stake-----. My idea of compassion, concern, moral/ethical ideations may be entirely different than anothers. Not to say mine is better, just may be different. *I* need an equalizer. *I* need a translator. *I* need a Code of Conduct. [b]*I* need the Standard of Care Raised.[/b] Not saying this in any way is a guarantee of "Success", just asking [i]do you think it would be a start[/i]? I am open to input/discussion/other ideas. Can't say I'll feel one way or the other. Lay it on me. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Anyone????
Key Players: *I'm* thinking "Ability, Motivation, Accountability, Ethical/Moral Constraints, Internal Drive". At least that's the way *I* see it. Experiences may differ. Anyone?
PS.......... Can anyone give examples of PPP and SoC they are familiar with, and where such is in use?
Monitorability: Do you think and considering what is at stake, this takes more than visual inspection? That it takes tools? That it needs something to measure? *I* need a [i]Standard[/i]. A goal. A way to assess compliance, understanding, *success*. *I* need someone to measure. *I* need someone qualified to measure. *I* need someone with a vested interest. *I* need *******documentation******* and a method to re-address, re-visit, and provide for QUALITY IMPROVEMENT, as we don't live in a static environment, people, change, needs become evident.
Yes, I agree we have to work very hard with the school, the community, our families,..................EACH OTHER.
Anyone?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. *My thoughts* are [i]just[/i] *my thoughts* and could very well be *wrong*. Just discussing the topic at hand.

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 2:53am
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MommaBear,
I love the ?'s, and I will reply later on tonight to all your ?'s(when the childern are asleep).
I belive all is possible.
Gail I would love to hear from you on these ?'s.
Working together.
Love this
Synthia

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 5:17am
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Alright, This is Kim, Synthia's DH.
I'm sure my obnoxious, egotistical opinions in this subject are sure to ruffle some feathers, but I just gotta comment on this thread. I appologize in advance for the disk usage I'm sure to be inspiring.
On the matter of [b]Motivation[/b], I believe the current motivation (2/3 to 3/4 of the teachers and administrators I've been in contact with) is a combination of liabilities and worlkoad. Introducing [b]Forced[/b] allergy awareness upon them comes across as "More work for me to do..., you mean I gotta play nurse too?... I now have to monitor all lunches, re-arrange seating based on what each kid's eating?... I have to be able to diagnose medically if my student is having a reaction and be willing to medically respond?...". I see a lot of resistance by these teachers and administrators for these reasons, and I can't fully blame them for these feelings. Most teachers started their careers for noble reasons, well intending to "make the world a better place", but as time passes, (for a growing percentage), their attitudes are poisoned by low pay, high workload, and some feeling of lack of public respect and appreciation. Many have to find second jobs to survive, again dividing their attention needed to be teachers they [still] want to be. Asking then (or Telling them) that they suddenly have to do more is a tough road to hoe. In my reality (AKA Opinion) motivation should be [b]"NO CHILD LOST TO FOOD ALLERGIES"[/b] right along side of [b]"NOPE, Not Going To Lose One On [b]MY[/b] Shift !"[/b] FIRST !!. Fortunately, There are some who ACTUALLY DO feel this way. We need MORE to, What can we do to help?
Another aspect of this is [b][i]Liability[/i][/b], (I know Y'all or gonna slam me over this one). I'm not so sure we can [i]EVER[/i] fully hold the school personnel liabel for "failure to diagnose" the onset of an allergic reaction or "failure to properly administer", I'm sure we'd like to think we can, but we may be deluding ourselves. In My (previously described) opinion, training them on the various signs and symptoms, so that they can see (or understand) sooner that [i]"Something is Wrong here"[/i], and at least knowing what to do (where and how to stick the pen, etc...) is the most important first step. We [i]Certainly[/i] hope for the personal gumption (with some confidence and lack of fear) to stand up, do the right thing, take charge and put the plan into action. We want more who'll say "Give that pen to Me , I'll do it, I'm not gonna stand here and watch [him/her] die !". That takes a certain kinda mental/emotional mindset that all ppl don't posess, that we're (as PA parents) not gonna be able to force on them against their will. I would hope that if one teacher saw something was wrong, knew the child was an "alert if acting or looking strange" student, that someone would be called immediately, the school nurse first ... , maybe the teacher from across the hall who's seen this before ... The more of the staff (teachers, admistrators, janitors, foodservice ppl, etc...) that can get some training, the better the percentages that someone with the stones to do what's needed will be there.
As I understand the "Good Samaritan" laws, if someone (from the crowd of gawkers, with no formal medical training) steps up and [b][i]TRIES[/i][/b] to save the life of another person, then they are not to be held liabel (within reason, of course) for the results of their actions. I feel that the school personnel (I know, just shoot mwe now) fall into this category. I (personally) would [b]NEVER[/b] hold someone liabel for standing up and trying their best to save my dd. Standing there and doing nothing (with or without formal training, with or without consent forms, waivers, signatures, [i]WhatEver ...[/i], however, is criminal. We have a traffic law that you can be charged with a crime for failure to stop and render assistance if you see an accident, if only we had the same for people having allergic reactions? (sorry, I digressed). If the school personnel were to understand that actually standing up and taking action would actually absolve them from any liabilities, would they be more comfortable and less scared of reprocussions, and give them the confidence and courage to make the call, or open the epi-pen and do the job ? I'm sure that even if (worse case scenario) the child died, the thoughs of "I tried, I did my best but it wasn't good enough" would be much better than the thoughts of those who watched Nathan Walters die that fateful day.
What motivation can we offer? "You sure don't wanna lose a child on your shift, do ya?", and "all I ask is that you TRY YOUR BEST, Call in as much help as possible", and you'll get out thanks, not litigation., Provide incentive to "learning the signs, symptoms, and epi-pen usage", Nice little classes would be nice, with [peanut free] snacks and $20.00 Office Depot gift cards maybe, where all could see the video, paractice on a dummy (no not me), and walk away thinking "I could do that if I had to". Some Serious "At-A-Boy"s for those who go a step farther would be nice too. Some "signs and symptoms" lessons for the kids would go a long way too, aside from the lack of prosecutorial fears, The more eyes we have watching each other, the sooner someone will say "Mr jones, I think there's something wrong with suzie" and the ball can start rolling. If given the choice, I'd always perfer "Don't worry Mr. #####, I'll do it, what are they gonna do, fire me?" over a signature that someone was trained any day of the week.
Sorry if I ruffled yer feathers, and I look foreward to MamaBears response, + or -.
"NO CHILD LOST TO FOOD ALLERGIES"
-- Kim --
[This message has been edited by synthia (edited December 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 8:53am
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]As I understand the "Good Samaritan" laws, if someone (from the crowd of gawkers, with no formal medical training) steps up and TRIES to save the life of another person, then they are not to be held liabel (within reason, of course) for the results of their actions. I feel that the school personnel (I know, just shoot mwe now) fall into this category. I (personally) would NEVER hold someone liabel for standing up and trying their best to save my dd. Standing there and doing nothing (with or without formal training, with or without consent forms, waivers, signatures, WhatEver ..., however, is criminal. We have a traffic law that you can be charged with a crime for failure to stop and render assistance if you see an accident, [/b]
Would anyone be able to show me this law?
Is the layperson expected to "render assistance" or be charged with a "crime" How would one define "rendering assistance"?
Still, would like to read the law referenced in it's entirety. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Would a nurse or a doctor be held to a different standard under the "Good Samaritan" Laws?
Anyone?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
Still contemplating the rest of the post. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 9:16am
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Here you go. . .
[url="http://www.medicalreservecorps.gov/appendixc.htm"]http://www.medicalreservecorps.gov/appendixc.htm[/url]

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 9:31am
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I see some references to "gross negligence" (does the definition of such change if you are, for example, a physician or RN?) and reference to "provides immunity" and "encourages", but did not see where the layperson could be charged with a crime for failure to assist. Maybe I missed the reference? Maybe it is a different law? I don't know. Anyone know?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 9:43am
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Hi Kim & Synthia, before I respond to your post, I just have to say you didnt ruffle my feathers! After what you guys have been through Id say you have a pretty good attitude. So heres how I feel about what you posted:
Motivation: When my son started school this year I had mixed feelings on this one. I too can understand why a teacher or aide would not want this responsibility. Hell, I wish I didnt have to worry all the time over whether Im doing the right thing or not! Yes they already have tough jobs and this is one more thing for them to do, but lifes tough, suck it up and do it. And I think most of them would. They might bitch and complain about it but when it comes down to it, I think they would protect a childs life. Most of them are good people who really enjoy being with kids.
Liability: I completely agree with you here. There are times, I think, that all of us are unsure if our child is having a reaction requiring epi or if something else is going on. I've never had to use the epi for my son, and I am pretty scared to. Mostly scared I wouldnt recognize the need for it soon enough. There are studies showing that most fatal reactions occur because people dont use epi or wait too long. Now they dont hold us liable for reactions mishandled, so I agree that if someone is trying you cant hold them liable, to a point. If it is blatant negligence, yes, but if it is a good intentioned person, properly trained, then probably not. Like you said , do your best, get backup, whatever you have to do.
Once the staff was trained by a nurse, they were all very concerned and willing to help. I hope that will be the case with your school. YOu guys have got to have a break coming soon here!

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 10:16am
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Hi, Kim agin.
Yes ACBaay, That is the Good Samaritan law I mentioned, and by it's wording, untrained applies to the "minimally trained" school staff, the allergy/epi-pen training they would/should recieve, wouldn't put them in the same category as the "trained" (Nurses, Nurse Assitants, Doctors, etc...) and thus should be covered (if they render some assitance, with no gross negligence). The "must stop and render assistance" statute is something else, I know that we have one (havn't found it yet) here in florida, was meant to help prevent people from just passing by, shaking their heads, while someone dies. I doubt that it would extend to this area as it's applied now, but shouldn't it be a rule in schools, someone is hurt, and nobody else is there to help, make a call to the front office and render as much assistance as you can. I would, but there are those who would not, or cannot.. Some don't have the intestinal fortitude to just jump in and do what should be done, and that's not neccessarily part of the school personnel's job description or part of the district's hiring guidelines (though it would be really nice).
Please don't mis-understand, I'm in no way belittling or diminishing the school personnel, they have a lot on their plates, including kids with allergies, whether they like it or not. I admire and applaud the effors of those who step up to the plate and take a swing, it seems that their numbers are growing (most really care, and the newfound knowledge of this increasingly allergic world we live in is soaking in by osmosis). The few for whom it's just a job, from 9 to 5, to pay the rent, well... that's another story, and the root of many of our [school] problems.
We (the PA community) must be the messengers, with lanterns hung high in the towers, to yell "the redcoats are coming" and warn the rest of the world, that an epidemmic of allergic deaths looms dark on the horizon if we don't get our collective butts in gear and lay down some rules to handle it. Dang, we stopped polio and the plague, sent men to the moon and the deepest ocean trenches, we can dissect and rebuild DNA chains, can't we drop the empathy and protect our beautiful children from a lousy peanut? (I shake my head in disgust).
"No Child Lost To Food Allergies"
-- Kim --
[This message has been edited by synthia (edited December 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 10:37am
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b] that an epidemmic of allergic deaths looms dark on the horizon if we don't get our collective butts in gear and lay down some rules to handle it. [/b]
NOW THERE'S A THOUGHT. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Wish I would have thought of it.
could you clarify your first post, Kim? Maybe I misunderstood, but is what you are describing, "Good Intentions"?
Does "Gross Negligence" take on a different meaning depending on the Standard of Care?
Completely unrelated and as a side note, as time passes, within the profession of Nursing, Standards of Care can change, the Scope of Practice can change. Is it the same with those in the educational field? Should there be a Multidisciplinary Approach? Collaberation? Just wondering. Anyone? Input?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 10:57am
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Thanks Mama2boys, I [i]DO[/i] appreciate your opinion, and MamaBear, I do mean "good intentions" if someone really tries, with good intent, no matter the outcome, good or bad, they have my blessings and sincerest thanks for their efforts. The empathy is inexcuseable, the act of waiting while considering what legal reprocussions may occur is unacceptable, the "We'll do nothing without a waiver" attitude is downright callous and uncaring, and as such has no place in the "child care" arena.
Thanx for your patience while I vent, but I don't post very often here, so when I do voice my opinion (and it's just my opinion), I tend to get a bit heated. I'm sure you all are just as passionate about these issues when it comes to your kids.
"No Child Lost To Food Allergies"
-- Kim --

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 11:50am
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Anonymous (not verified)

Kim, not only did you [b]not[/b] ruffle my feathers - I can't quite figure out why you thought you might be ruffling some.
My son (5 years) is not pa, but he has an epi-pen because of an insect allergy. I have spoken to his teacher several times re-allergies.
He has never had an ana-reaction, and currently the instructions are give benedryl. Any breathing difficulties give epi. His teacher asked me [i]how obvious/quick does he develop breathing problems[/i]. Well - so far he never has. [i]How will I know? What if I'm wrong?[/i] My answer - err on the side of caution. If in doubt, give him epi. If he gets it and he doesn't need it - it's not a big deal. If he needs it and doesn't get it - that's a big deal.
What I'm trying to say is, there is an element on *diagnoses* required on the part of his teacher. She's not fully comfortable with it, but, does understand, and questions me to keep it all fresh in her mind.
BTW, she also questions me about pa often. The school bans peanuts and peanut products and she says *it's only a matter of time before I have a student allergic to peanuts* and by questioning me now, she hopes to be prepared when it happens.

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 12:35pm
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]Kim, not only did you [b]not[/b] ruffle my feathers - I can't quite figure out why you thought you might be ruffling some.
When I start discussing LIABILITIES I know I am bound to cross paths with some members
Any breathing difficulties give epi. His teacher asked me [i]how obvious/quick does he develop breathing problems[/i]. Well - so far he never has. [i]How will I know? What if I'm wrong?[/i] My answer - err on the side of caution. If in doubt, give him epi. If he gets it and he doesn't need it - it's not a big deal. If he needs it and doesn't get it - that's a big deal.
Yes, That is exactly my point!!!!!
What I'm trying to say is, there is an element on *diagnoses* required on the part of his teacher. She's not fully comfortable with it, but, does understand, and questions me to keep it all fresh in her mind.
BTW, she also questions me about pa often. The school bans peanuts and peanut products and she says *it's only a matter of time before I have a student allergic to peanuts* and by questioning me now, she hopes to be prepared when it happens.[/b]
That is a great teacher we all send her a big AT-BOY.Would she allow us to clone her?
She obviously has a heart and cares.
I can only hope Little V can be so lucky.
Thanks for you comments they help a lot.
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 12:36pm
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]Thanks Mama2boys, I [i]DO[/i] appreciate your opinion, and MamaBear, I do mean "good intentions" if someone really tries, with good intent, no matter the outcome, good or bad, they have my blessings and sincerest thanks for their efforts. [/b]
Where I come from, "good intentions" aren't always acceptable. "Good Practice" + "Good Intentions" is even better. Gotta think about what "Good Practice" is based on as well.
What do you think? Input? Anyone?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited December 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Mon, 12/29/2003 - 12:45pm
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Excerpts from your post, AnnaMarie:
Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b] [i]How will I know? What if I'm wrong?............[/i] ................She's not fully comfortable with it, but, does understand, and questions me to keep it all fresh in her mind...................
.................BTW, she also questions me about pa often. [/b]
Were her questions covered in a formal "inservice" by the school? Is there a formal and prepared way to address such questions and concerns? Is there a formal method in place to evaluate comprehension and ability and address the lack of? Is there a "refresher" at planned intervals? What about the possibility of others who may have similiar concerns, but do not ask questions?
Anyone ever hear of anything similiar?
edit to add:
Does the idea of [i]"delegating authority"[/i] fit into this big picture, if at all?
Anyone ever hear of anything similiar?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited December 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 12/30/2003 - 3:12am
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Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Excerpts from your post, AnnaMarie:
Were her questions covered in a formal "inservice" by the school? Is there a formal and prepared way to address such questions and concerns? Is there a formal method in place to evaluate comprehension and ability and address the lack of? Is there a "refresher" at planned intervals? What about the possibility of others who may have similiar concerns, but do not ask questions?
Does the idea of [i]"delegating authority"[/i] fit into this big picture, if at all?
[/b]
At my son's school every teacher has first aid training. This includes training on the use of an epi-pen. I think it is done every two years.
There is a formal method in place, but I find a friendly chat on a regular basis works well. When possible I always prefer everything involving my son be done in a friendly way. If I needed to but heads over an issue I would - but I don't see a need in this instance. We are working together.
Refresher? I believe it's every two years.
"What about the possibility of others who may have similiar concerns, but do not ask questions?"
Do you mean other teachers or other parents?
Teachers with questions can ask their first aid trainer. Parents with questions/concerns definitely can set up formal meetings. Some have felt that was necessary, but, for my son and I this is working well.
As for delegating authority - well, I guess I do that just by sending my son to school anyway.
**********
Synthia, this is the teacher I spent the entire summer worrying about. Everything I saw last year - I didn't like. I love a teacher who continues to want to learn. She doesn't pretend my son's epi is nothing. She dreads ever needing to use it (as do I), but she accepts the responsibility.
A big reason (I assume) is that's the way his school is set up. Epi's in the office and classroom. Everybody trained. No garbage cans near the doors. Some of these are small steps - but together they make a big difference.

Posted on: Tue, 12/30/2003 - 6:18am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]
When possible I always prefer everything involving my son be done in a friendly way. [/b]
wouldn't we all?

Posted on: Tue, 12/30/2003 - 6:19am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]
As for delegating authority - well, I guess I do that just by sending my son to school anyway.
[/b]
[i]Is this because it's within your realm to do? ie: to pass on "authority" wouldn't one have to have it in the first place? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 12/30/2003 - 12:33pm
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Hi Guys,
I would like to say that I didn't see anything either that could ruffle feathers...Kim has a good point and I too understand teachers can be put off by seeing more workload, responsibility etc...
BUT...IMHO, to me the responsibility part alone would make me think it's in MY best interest to be on alert about the food that came in being safe for a student that I had been told could have a life threatening reaction in my presence. Why would I want to place myself in that position of having to worry that the student was in constant danger and create a bigger risk of me having to handle a life threatening situation!
The way I see it, if you follow the rules that the administration has put in place there is actually LESS work on the teachers...in truth, myself and the RN are the ones who did all the actual WORK involved - yes, the teachers and administration had to have an inservice training that they would not have had to do otherwise. We did ALL the preperation - NOW, the teacher does have to make sure that there are no peanut products eaten in the classroom, but the times that the students are eating in the class are pre arranged parties or half days (which are once a month) - this is where the teachers work comes in - and this has been reduced to the parties since Cameron's class is PF his class eats in the caferteria on the half days rather than the room like the rest of the school...parties are prearranged and this shouldn't be more work since you plan with the parents ahead of time for them, no actual peanut products should be brought in, period.
I still don't see where all the extra work for the teachers come into play - if they SEE or HEAR that a student has a peanut product then it is taken away until the end of the day, 2nd time it happens - a reminder note should go home...if it continues, then administration should handle it - JUST LIKE RULES OF CHEWING GUM COME INTO PLAY! If a student is seen/heard that they have gum, it is taken care of - I mean, are they going to go ahead and allow students to have gum again because there is too much work for the teachers to "watch out" or "monitor" for gum?
I totally understand why the teachers don't "want" my son in his class...BUT in all reality if the rules are followed then there is less work/risk for THEM also.
I totally agree with Kim's statement that as long as they do their best and try to help my son, then I feel they have done all they can do and I could never blame them for that, no matter the results - b/c in all reality, who knows how I myself am going to react if he has another ana-reaction...It scares me all the time - the what-if's...
Soooo.....
DEFINABILITY - Would be whatever my son's plan stated - if the risk of an allergic student is high with the may contains, made-ins, etc - then it shouldn't be allowed.
ENFORCEABILITY - This one is real simple - follow the rules, or face the consequences. What are the consequences??? Whatever the administration has in place for breaking certain rules - would new consequences have to be put in place - maybe, but to date, the handbook at all the my kids schools have changed year to year due to new rules.
MOTIVATION - Would be to keep my son safe, just as a loaded gun could harm my son.
Once again, IMO, the only reason it's so "difficult" is because of the politics - plain and simple - I find it offensive that kids where clothes showing their behind, other parents feel it is their child's right to wear them - so in most schools now, they have rules in place (and consequences, I might add), that have taken away the "right" of showing boxers and behinds...
so these kids can show their boxers/behinds when they aren't in school....while eating their peanut butter sandwiches. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Guess I now need to apologize for the bandwith I have taken up tonight!

Posted on: Tue, 12/30/2003 - 12:52pm
synthia's picture
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Cam's Mom
Kim and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
If the school's could lose the politics..
it would be SIMPLER
Love this site
Synthia [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 12/31/2003 - 12:11am
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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]Soooo.....
DEFINABILITY - Would be whatever my son's plan stated - if the risk of an allergic student is high with the may contains, made-ins, etc - then it shouldn't be allowed.[/b]
What if one "plan" conflicts with another "plan" ? How would this affect those who are "responsible", for example? My younger cub the [i]fifth[/i] child with PA in his early intervention class.
What if a "plan" conflicts with current research, medical practices, etc?
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]
ENFORCEABILITY - This one is real simple - follow the rules, or face the consequences. What are the consequences??? Whatever the administration has in place for breaking certain rules - would new consequences have to be put in place - maybe, but to date, the handbook at all the my kids schools have changed year to year due to new rules.[/b]
Would "whatever the administration has in place for breaking certain rules" have to be "in step" or not conflict with other laws, public health codes, civil rights law, etc?, in order to be ultimately "enforceable"?
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]MOTIVATION - Would be to keep my son safe, just as a loaded gun could harm my son.[/b]
Would this take education? would this take the ability to see it this way? would this take a vested interest?
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]Once again, IMO, the only reason it's so "difficult" is because of the politics - plain and simple - [/b]
I think there are many reason. Take *my* extended family. Weeks were spent discussing "the holidays". My older son's godmother (SIL) planned Christmas eve. She was eager to provide a "safe" environment for both cubs (various FA), and inquired many times on the menu as to whether certain items would be "safe".
*I* inquired as well, *I* gave suggestions, information, rationale. I also told her I would be "double checking" items.
Well, I get there and there is the open bowl of mixed nuts. Unlabelled crackers, some labels not available, some other "unsafe" items, all on the same plate. Same for *alot* of the food. Much of it on a very prettily decorated table at hands reach for the cubs. There were [i]catered[/i] items. Caught people I had spoke with prior, immedeiately offering food to the cubs [i]before checking[/i] with us. (Cubs asked us if it was 'ok')
I mean, these people [i]love[/i] our children and [i]there[/i] is the situation. They have a vested interest, although NO ONE will ever have the interest my husband and I do in our cubs. [i]no one.[/i]
So I ask myself: How would my husband and I/my cubs ............motivate/achieve/define/monitor an environment "fit" for my cubs outside the home? And......... are all "homes" safe for those who live in them?
I also ask myself: While I'm at it for "my cubs", could there be a methodology that would aid other's with similiar issues? I think of my profession. I think of my husband's profession. I think of the myriad of "issues" I see managed daily. A myriad of life threatening/life altering/yea [i]deadly[/i] issues.
I bite my lip and [i]scream[/i] inside.
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]I find it offensive that kids where clothes showing their behind, other parents feel it is their child's right to wear them - so in most schools now, they have rules in place (and consequences, I might add), that have taken away the "right" of showing boxers and behinds...
so these kids can show their boxers/behinds when they aren't in school....while eating their peanut butter sandwiches. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[/b]
But, do some parents still invest money and time acquiring such "clothing" for their children? That is what *I* remind myself. (When assessing risks and wondering if I should count on "good intentions".)
Thinking of "public decency" laws (if they still exist) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] and since we don't live in an unchanging environment. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Thanks to all so far who have responded to "defineability", "achievability", "monitorability", "Enforceability", and "Motivation".
[b]I believe in Miracles[/b]. And, as I indicated before: They may not always recognizable for what they are, and may not come in the form desired/expected. Miracles can be that way. Among other things. Personally? *I* have also found some Miracles take [i]cooperation and pre-planning.[/i]
Anyone?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited December 31, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 12/31/2003 - 3:02am
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Quote:Originally posted by Alternative to Mainstream:
[b]erik, I used you as an example without your permission. My apologies.[/b]
Hi Cindy,
That's ok.. everyone is always welcome to use me as an example as it is fine with me [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I did not have junior kindergarten in my area when I was a kid (Peel County Board of Education).
Yes, it is true I never had a peanut-free classroom. But my family doctor had mentioned how the peanut allergy was dangerous (as my parents saw from my first reaction when I was 2 years old and my face swelled up after taking a bite of my Mom's peanut butter sandwich).
So I was always very careful and stayed away from anything peanutty.. even when uncles, etc would offer me a Criispy Crunch peanut bar to eat (peanut allergy knowledge was very rare back then, and people didn't get it at all.. even uncles/aunts/ etc would not believe how dangerous it was, thinking it was still safe to eat peanuts and maybe I would sneeze or something).
In the environment of the 1970s when no one took peanut allergies seriously, I had to take them seriously even though I was quite young.
I am quite sensitive to peanuts as I did have cross-contamination reactions to baked goods several times (cake, pastry, chocolate bar without any nuts, etc).
Even though I was careful and avoided peanuts successfully, I had no idea about the concept of "cross contamination" which is why I had reactions. Once I learned about this concept in my late teens, I avoided risky items such as baked goods, etc which really helped. But I still react to extended airborne exposure to peanuts so I avoid those environments.
Of course, luck was involved too, plus back in the 1970s when I was a kid at school, there were a lot less peanut products out there which helped as well. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I haven't been in this thread for months, so it will take a while to catch up. Happy New Year all [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 12/31/2003 - 1:58pm
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As far as I know, at this point, the only thing my son's plan conflicts with is convenience.
The ONLY type of medical condition that could have a conflicting issue would be that of a diabetic child. And I couldn't really answer that at this point because I don't know enough about the condition to be able to say what should or shouldn't happen.
As far as a plan being in place conflicting with medical research, etc...Again, I haven't a clue of anything I have in my child's plan, or could have in his plan, that could possibly conflict with medical research - the fact is, peanut products can kill my son, and that is a medical fact. There is more evidence in research alone, not too mention medical facts and documentation, that prove that being exposed to peanuts can cause a life threatening situation to my son.
As far as the "administrations consequences for breaking the rules" being "in step" with other laws, civil rights, etc....I compare it with the same consequences of breaking the rule of chewing gum - The rule seems to be quite enforceable (and accepted, I might add), it's a "food" not allowed in the school for obvious reasons, why would being disciplined for having a non-allowed food be more extreme giving that gum causes damage - peanuts can cause death or medical harm.
I have come to the conclusion that not one person will EVER accept the fact that my son can die from peanuts, not his grandparents, not his aunts, uncles, school staff, friends or members of our church. NO ONE with the exception of myself and DH truly "get it" - I have accepted this, I don't like it, but I've accepted this. The only thing I EXPECT of any of these people is for them to FOLLOW THE RULES I have put in place to keep him safe. There are many rules of other parents that I think are "extreme" pertaining to other things in life, but if they are in my care, I respect and follow those rules, whether I believe in them or feel they are neccessary, or not, and I in return expect the same from them.
As for the clothing issue, I don't know where my brain was last night typing that, but in reality, it doesn't compare - it's a morality issue vs a health issue.
Well, I could go on and on and I have a feeling so could others...my opinion still sits where it did months ago and I feel that the only reasons we have the issues with the schools that we do are the politics, no other food on the planet has caused such a ruckus as this darn peanut.
I hope everyone has a Happy and Safe New Year!

Posted on: Wed, 12/31/2003 - 3:33pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Cam's Mom, I really liked this:-
There are many rules of other parents that I think are "extreme" pertaining to other things in life, but if they are in my care, I respect and follow those rules, whether I believe in them or feel they are neccessary, or not, and I in return expect the same from them.
As an extension of that, when your PA child is in the school system, shouldn't Duty of Care pervail and the school follow the *rules* of the parent?
If you look at what I posted about last year here where there was a notice beside Jesse's PA information about a child in his class that could not eat certain foods because it caused behavioural problems. I know I was upset about the notice being placed beside Jesse's PA information because I thought it minimized the seriousness of his allergy. The other child was not going to drop dead if she ate the foods, she was going to misbehave. Big difference.
However, that child did come into the breakfast program because she was in the Y daycare program before and after school and they don't serve breakfast in the Y program. So, if she hadn't eaten breakfast at say 7:00 a.m. before entering the First Base program, she'd come to the school's breakfast program to eat breakfast. I did pay heed to what the notice said, even though I think most of the things on her list of foods that were not okay for her weren't something that would *normally* be in the breakfast program. But I did know what the foods were and I did respect what the other parents said.
I just really wanted to say that I really liked that one statement of yours. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------

Posted on: Wed, 12/31/2003 - 4:38pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Alternative to Mainstream:
[b]If you look at what I posted about last year here where there was a notice beside Jesse's PA information about a child in his class that could not eat certain foods because it caused behavioural problems. I know I was upset about the notice being placed beside Jesse's PA information because I thought it minimized the seriousness of his allergy. The other child was not going to drop dead if she ate the foods, she was going to misbehave. Big difference.
However, that child did come into the breakfast program because she was in the Y daycare program before and after school and they don't serve breakfast in the Y program. So, if she hadn't eaten breakfast at say 7:00 a.m. before entering the First Base program, she'd come to the school's breakfast program to eat breakfast. I did pay heed to what the notice said, even though I think most of the things on her list of foods that were not okay for her weren't something that would *normally* be in the breakfast program. But I did know what the foods were and I did respect what the other parents said.
[/b]
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000894.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000894.html[/url]
Is this the thread???

Posted on: Fri, 01/16/2004 - 2:36am
MommaBear's picture
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reraising to compliment some other discussions.

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 5:57am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]
#1.....................
I [b]personally[/b] require (where my son is concerned) that there be a
[b]Full-Time-School-Nurse[/b] (RN)
(as I *personally* feel it is critical and pivotal issue)
[url="http://nursing.about.com/library/weekly/aa091201a.htm"]http://nursing.about.com/library/weekly/aa091201a.htm[/url]
[b]preferably certified (CSN):[/b]
[url="http://www.nbcsn.com/pscertification.htm"]http://www.nbcsn.com/pscertification.htm[/url]
[b]preferably holding a Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN)or [i]higher[/i][/b]
[url="http://www.campusrn.com/students/article.asp?news_id=892"]http://www.campusrn.com/students/article.asp?news_id=892[/url]
[b]preferably having some type of Critical Care (experience) for at least one year, full time[/b]
[url="http://community.nursingspectrum.com/MagazineArticles/article.cfm?AID=8189"]http://community.nursingspectrum.com/MagazineArticles/article.cfm?AID=8189[/url]
can't help but wish for this [i]preferably[/i]:
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000969.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000969.html[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely expressing my own *personal* requirements. I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the links in this post.
*******************************************
Please note:
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000967.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000967.html[/url]
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000991.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000991.html[/url]
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001009.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001009.html[/url]
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
PS.......shall I continue?
[/b]
RERAISING. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 6:03am
MommaBear's picture
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[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum19/HTML/000055.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum19/HTML/000055.html[/url]
LINKING. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 12:32pm
anonymous's picture
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We have a full time RN at each school and a "district" physician that they have to consult with on certain things and our case was definately one of those "things".
Still was a battle to get things going here for my PA son, with what I might add, a very simple plan with light restrictions. Still has been tough. Although in the beginning the RN was my biggest hurdle, she has become my son's biggest advocate (next to me of course [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )...it was the RN accepting education from a lay person (me) that was most struggling and not because she's not capable or properly trained, she had no experience with PA and therefore was hard to handle.
So unless the RN "specializes" in childhood diseases, such as diabetes, asthma, allergic reactions, etc and their severities, they aren't any different than the average nurse in the school.
I thank God for our RN, she has been an angel in disguise... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Just my opinion.

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 11:01pm
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]
So unless the RN "specializes" in childhood diseases, such as diabetes, asthma, allergic reactions, etc and their severities, they aren't any different than the average nurse in the school.
[/b]
Do ya think a school nurse "should"?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
(Thinking back on *my* *particular* nursing education, I (blushing) think it was pretty well rounded. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 11:07pm
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b] Although in the beginning the RN was my biggest hurdle, she has become my son's biggest advocate (next to me of course [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )...it was the RN accepting education from a lay person (me) that was most struggling and not because she's not capable or properly trained, she had no experience with PA and therefore was hard to handle.
[/b]
I remember posting about a "seminar" on food allergies for healthcare professionals. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Would you say "all" parents of food allergic children are [i]qualified[/i] to "inservice", for "all" food allergies? Even the one they may be "dealing" with?

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 11:14pm
MommaBear's picture
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Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. (pinky extended to corner of mouth)
[i]hypothetically speaking.......[/i]:
If Federal law were to legislate that a full time RN be required in every day, all day, in every school............. Public? Private?.................. specifically due to anaphylaxis and asthma, for instance, (but possibly not exclusive to).......... what would that possibly mean for "Continuing Education" or "Scope of Practice"?
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/20/2004 - 11:16pm
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IMAGINE. ALL THIS IN A "PEANUT FREE/GUN FREE" THREAD. (not shouting, just making a point. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img])
[i]I'm beginning to understand why my son enjoys pulling all the clothes out of every dresser in his room and liberally spreading them about the room.[/i]
So much easier to decide what to wear.

Posted on: Fri, 01/23/2004 - 10:06am
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Mommabear,
I've read your last posts several times, but this is one time that I'm not sure what you are trying to say.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I just don't think that just because there is an RN in the school (mandated or not) that it means it will neccessarily be safer. I think that an RN MIGHT could handle the epi more effectively - but as for the school and staff being more educated or the class/school being safer simply because there is an RN on staff, just isn't going to be. And to keep "on track" with the current thread I must add: There are police officers on staff at every school from elementary to high school here and in most of Florida, and there are still drugs, alcohol, fights, weapons and other stuff going on in our schools that were previously going on prior to the police officers being stationed at the schools - the only difference now is there is an officer on campus and can get there quicker than having to wait for them being dispatched from the sheriff's office - which is basically what having an RN on staff would accomplish.
I was alot more qualified and educated regarding Cam's allergy than the RN was, which is why I gave presentations, etc...she gave epi training.
I think it's absolutely wonderful that they mandate RN's at schools every day...I don't disagree, I just know from experience that it won't make a safer environment - nor eliminate any risks.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 01/23/2004 - 10:31am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]I think it's absolutely wonderful that they mandate RN's at schools every day...I don't disagree, I just know from experience that it won't make a safer environment - nor eliminate any risks.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/b]
just wondering why you would think it is "absolutely wonderful" then?
BTW, wondering if I should try FSBO next time we sell?

Posted on: Fri, 01/23/2004 - 1:23pm
anonymous's picture
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See, MB, I tried thinking in that aspect also (the FSBO vs Realtor)I really did!
If you have a commercial business you are trying to sell, then I'm not the Realtor for you...I could "stumble" through it BUT to be honest, I don't "specialize" in commercial property, therefore, I wouldn't be the realtor that could do the BEST job - BUT we aren't talking just lost money for a "customer" when we are talking about PA and schools, we are talking lives.
An RN that doesn't specialize in allergic reactions or asthma, etc can't compare to my profession as a realtor since we are talking money loss vs life loss...My education was in all aspects of real estate BUT that doesn't mean that I am the best person for ALL aspects of real estate because I only specialize in residential.
I DO think it's wonderful that an RN would be in all schools at all times...just because I don't think it would neccessarily mean it would mean a safer environment doesn't mean I don't agree that it would be better all the way around - an RN would be better than a nurses aide in the general illness/injuries that require nurses attentions in school - emergencies and all, but it still won't make the school particularly safer for PA (or asthma) students.
If I go to a Family Dr. for a broken arm does that mean they will be able to set/repair it [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] - I imagine they would send me to the orthapedic dr....
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 01/23/2004 - 1:48pm
erik's picture
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wow... this thread never ends

Posted on: Sat, 01/24/2004 - 12:47am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom: [b]See, MB, I tried thinking in
that aspect also (the FSBO vs Realtor)I really did!
If you have a commercial business you are trying to sell, then I'm not
the Realtor for you...I could "stumble" through it BUT to be honest, I don't
"specialize" in commercial property, therefore, I wouldn't be the realtor
that could do the BEST job - BUT we aren't talking just lost money for a
"customer" when we are talking about PA and schools, we are talking lives.[/b]
[i]exactly[/i]. glad we can agree. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
On a hunch and maybe as a lark, do you think
there are any studies "out there" that depict
impact "RN's" (or other "brands" of nurses) have
on [i]life[/i] and the quality thereof? Just on
"a hunch"?
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:[b]
I DO think it's wonderful that an RN would be in all schools at all times...[/b]
Again, thank you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:[b]
...just because I don't think it would neccessarily mean it would mean a
safer environment doesn't mean I don't agree that it would be better
all the way around - an RN would be better than a nurses aide in the
general illness/injuries that require nurses attentions in school -
emergencies and all, but it still won't make the school particularly safer
for PA (or asthma) students.[/b]
completely unrelated and seeing hubby (and maybe myself
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]) have considered "Real Estate" as a "side"..........
[i]How does one become a "Realtor"?[/i]
Back to the topic at hand:
Wondering if folk understand "Scope of Practice" and what an
RN (or other "brands" of nurses) may (or may not) do or are
expected to know? How "Continuing Education" may relate to "Scope
of Practice"? Or how one's education may prepare one to "adapt"?
PS......... Is there anything you would expect an "RN", for
instance, to recognize/understand/have knowledge of wrt to,
for example, "allergies", "asthma", or "anaphylaxis"?
Would you expect a "Family" Dr. to be able to recognize when a
referral was necessary, provide temporary measures, and or
pallative care? Provide Intervention in some way? You know, a bridge,
so to speak? Limit the Risk in some way? (Within Scope of Practice.)
BTW, are we talking making an appointment to see a "Family" Dr?
Going to an "Urgent Aid"? Or being taken to an "ER"? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I mean,
depending on how one may arrive at a certain circumstance, should the
possibility of such circumstance be anticipated and the possibility
planned for? I mean, how would your expectations differ? I mean,
depending on where one is, does the "Standard of Care" differ. I mean,
depending on where one is, should/could/do you want it/is it worthy
of being [i]raised[/i]? (What a concept.)
I guess that is the question at hand.
Seeing children with the Life threatening Allergies, The Potential for
Anaphylaxis, Asthma, and Other Needs are attending schools, what expectations
should we have? With regard to an "Emergency" and with regard to
Pre-Planning/Prevention, and Education? And "Quality Improvement".
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Sat, 01/24/2004 - 1:18am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Cam's Mom,
I just wanted to pop in and say how great it is to read your posts. I'm happy you're back!
I'm also happy to read that your nurse is now your biggest advocate. What a trun around! Can you share some of the things she has done to advocate for Cam? Do you think those things would have happened without her advocating for them?
Love this thread!

Posted on: Sat, 01/24/2004 - 10:13am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote: [b] Originally posted by Mommabear: On a hunch and maybe as a lark, do you think
there are any studies "out there" that depict impact "RN's" (or other "brands" of nurses) have on [i]life[/i] and the quality thereof? Just on "a hunch"?[/b]
I'm not exactly sure if you are asking if 1) I think that past case studies dictate how the medical field responds to certain illness, diseases, emergencies and such or 2) if I feel that RN's/nurses should have certain certifications to have an impact on a quality of life...or 3) something totally different...
If 1) I would bet my life on the fact that the medical field reacts a certain way after reading/hearing of certain case studies differently than they did prior to having knowledge...2) There is no doubt that people in every profession in the world should have certain specialized training for specialized areas...3) this is probably the pick..and if so, I'm sorry, but I just don't know what you're asking. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Quote:[b]Originally posted by Mommabear:
completely unrelated and seeing hubby (and maybe myself [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]) have considered "Real Estate" as a "side"..........
[i]How does one become a "Realtor"?[/i][/b] I'm not sure what is completely unrelated...as for becoming a "Realtor" you have to be a member of the National Association of Realtors, once you are licensed, to be licensed the laws vary from state to state - in Florida you go to school, pass an exam, pass a state and federal background check then sit for a state examination.
Quote:[b]Originally posted by Mommabear: Wondering if folk understand "Scope of Practice" and what an RN (or other "brands" of nurses) may (or may not) do or are
expected to know? How "Continuing Education" may relate to "Scope of Practice"? Or how one's education may prepare one to "adapt"?[/b]
I don't know what an RN is suppose to know, but the ones I've had to deal with in regards to Cam's PA don't know what I know about it, [b]and that's ok with me[/b]except when THEY want to act like I'M the looney toon, when it's THEM that lack knowledge and don't want to admit that a lay person (myself) has more "medical" knowledge than them.
If someone walks in my office wanting to sell their business, and they feel it's worth X amount and I think it may be worth alot less simply because of the few "cases" I've seen in my career or education...I need (and would) refer them to another agent whom is specialized in commercial property OR educate myself in that area of my profession so that I can better and PROPERLY care for that type of client...then, and only then, can I "judge" a clients "mental state" as to the worth of their property.
I expect that out of any RN, LPN, Dr. or any type of medical person JUDGING my mental state (looney as I may be [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )...if they are out of the "scope of practice" then they shouldn't treat the person as they are over reacting to a condition - just as I shouldn't treat a seller who may or may not be over reacting to the value of their property.
Which is why the RN at Cam's school did become such an obstacle in the beginning, she had never been educated on the seriousness of PA and was threatened b/c I knew more about something in "her territory"...and the reason she became such an advocate for Cam was because through my education and further medical education she realized how serious his allergy was - in the beg. she thought I was some crazy person because she had never heard of such - now she brags about what a wonderful parent I am because of how I advocate for his allergy.
My whole point in my response to the idea of RN's being mandated in every school every day, is that is a good thing for the schools, but it isn't the solution to safer schools...maybe a stepping stone in the right direction...and I still feel the efforts for RN's in schools would be better served for better education for administration, teachers and staff....there can be 100 Dr's on campus, but if the staff that's present with the child can't recognize a reaction then he could be dead before he even gets to the Dr/RN, etc...education and prevention are the key to a safer environment.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sat, 01/24/2004 - 10:30am
anonymous's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Erik - kinda like the Rudeness Thread - never ending battle [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] - two stubborn women with unmovable minds...atleast in that thread there are delicious cookie recipes [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
Gail - thank you, I just have [i]learned[/i] to juggle what little time I have now to read a little - wish I could post more than I do, MB pulled me in again on this one though - she through the bait and I bit [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]...
I'll re-raise another thread with some updates on the RN and what a precious person she has become...
All kidding aside MB, I like a good debate, I've always enjoyed hashing out a subject (in a friendly way) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sun, 01/25/2004 - 1:42am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]
All kidding aside MB, I like a good debate, I've always enjoyed hashing out a subject (in a friendly way) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/b]
Absolutely. I love making *Rice Pudding* when someone else helps me stir. :P
Interesting:
[url="http://www.schoolnurse.com/med_info/implicationcedar.html"]http://www.schoolnurse.com/med_info/implicationcedar.html[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I do not guarantee the accuracy, content, or currentness of the link in this post.
edit to add "Interesting:"
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited January 25, 2004).]

Posted on: Sun, 01/25/2004 - 3:03am
erik's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] Absolutely. I love making *Rice Pudding* when someone else helps me stir. :P
[/b]
Not much time lately so I'll stick to Kozy Shack . hehe [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 01/26/2004 - 4:45am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

reraising [i]by request[/i].

Posted on: Mon, 01/26/2004 - 4:47am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

[i]linking[/i]
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001321.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001321.html[/url]

Posted on: Mon, 01/26/2004 - 4:49am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

[i]linking yet again.[/i]
[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000988.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000988.html[/url]

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