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Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 5:40am
Gail W's picture
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Is that school board policy? Have those rules been voted on by the school board? My hunch (only a hunch) is that these are the school "rules" not policy. Policy is legally binding, yes? Rules are not.
I can't very easily recognize safe vs. unsafe food. In fact, it's sometimes impossible. And my definition of safe may very well be different from your's, or your teacher's. And the liability is very great because of the potential risk.
I've gone though about 118 school sites and looked at their policies. I can't find any that state a gun-free or drug-free status. (That's still not to say that they don't exist...but I can't find them. I'm still hoping someone else can.)
I did, however, find a couple "tobacco-free" policies:
Both school policies sited a legal reference, which is because they are a controlled substance regulated by law.

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 6:02am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Cam's Mom, you caught something that I totally missed in this guns/drugs/peanuts discussion. The following:-
As for pnut products not being harmful to a PA child unless milicious intent was involved...how about the residue that the product unintentionally left, that its self is the danger PF status controls, just as the drug/weapon free status controls the presence of drugs and weapons, if action is properly adhered to (as River was saying) then it can control and limit the incidents.
I realize that all of the examples I posted were where other children with pb would be acting in a threatening/bullying/malicious manner towards a PA child. I completely forgot, and how could I, that reactions occur even when there is no malicious intent (cause in point would be my own son's anaphylactic reaction this year to residue outside of his peanut free classroom). I can't believe that that escaped my mind completely when I posted.
I've posted sparingly about what I'm trying to achieve at Jesse's current school, mostly because the discussions have been moving so slowing (not as slow as your 504 Plan discussions, Cam's Mom [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] ), but what I finally found was that the school principal does not want to go "peanut free" (in my use always of the words "peanut free", I also mean "reduce the risk" and "peanut safe", whichever is the most politically correct to whoever is reading the post) as far as the whole school.
She is willing to look at the allergy protocol from the other school I posted here that really has the PA child's *right* to a "peanut free" classroom but then some very clear instructions on how the whole school community works to minimize the risk to the student, even though the PA student is still only in a "peanut free" classroom, not a "peanut free" school.
I had used wording from an e-mail I received from Anaphylaxis Canada and Jesse's reaction itself to try to convince the principal to have a "peanut free" school (of which there are many in Ontario at least). But still no.
Liability? Since there is no policy in place for say the washing of the walls or the washing down of the tables in the particular room where Jesse ate that morning, would I have had any recourse? I have no bloody idea.
I think the whole thing for me still remains really confusing when it comes to liability, etc. The school board, as I found out when I moved to this town, knows how to get on the phone to their lawyers pretty damned quick (I wouldn't sign the liability waiver in it's current form) and they must know something we, as PA parents might or might not.
Can I fault a school legally, liability wise if they do not proclaim themselves to be peanut free? Therein, of course, I've raised yet another question (perhaps someone could start charting when I ask 20 questions in one week and see if it is related to anything in the world [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] )
Jesse's reaction did not happen inside his peanut free classroom. And look at the shambles of his peanut free classroom and the year from he** we have had with that. Now, I do believe should something happen within his classroom, especially because things have been so bugged up this year at his school in the classroom, I might have recourse.
Bottom line now in my head - I had always thought the school was liable should something happen to Jesse. I don't know why I thought that. Did I read it here? Did I just think it up (that is quite possible)? Is the school liable should something happen to Jesse?
Damn, I'm going to have to raise another question or perhaps someone else could do so.....
Again, Cam's Mom, I completely missed your excellent point about residue, etc. and all of my examples were malicious ones. Why I missed them, I don't know, but I'm glad you didn't.
Also, interesting, Off Topic, all the Moms back to talking to me after school to-day. I swear people are downright strange. ALL the Moms. Weird.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 6:15am
Gail W's picture
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Cindy Spowart Cook:
[b]Is the school liable should something happen to Jesse?[/b]
Isn't that what this whole discussion is about?!!
Yes, I *personally* believe they are liable if they are not following school policy. In my opinion, absolutely they are liable. That is the basis of this discussion as well as many others. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Edited to add: Mariah reactions at school 2 years ago were not from ingestion or from anything directly given to her. They were from residue contact (e.g. hand rail, computer, who knows where). This was what precipitated our discussions w/ the district to formalize policy (e.g. liability from not having such policy, etc).
Edited again: The school reduced their liability by 1.) removing all nuts from the lunch program and all food provided [b]by the school[/b], and 2.) URGING parents to voluntarily refrain from sending it in to school and 3.) providing an absolutely food-free classroom and 4.) having emergency care instituted by a full-time RN. They provided these safeguards in lieu of a ban since they could not monitor it.
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 6:27am
joeybeth's picture
Joined: 09/01/2006 - 09:00

loved your examples. seems schools DO regulate what they deem important enough to regulate, doesn't it? how can the length of someone's shorts be more important than the presence of something that could cause anaphylaxis?? our school tells me it would be "impossible" to limit peanuts and peanut products and yet they feel that it is serious business to keep kids from bringing toys into school (even on show and tell day) because "toys are distracting." hmmmmm? you have got me thinking about my school and where they place their priorities. i KNOW my kids' lives (two of the four are PA) are far more important than the length of someone's shorts or the message on someone else's t-shirt. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
thanks for the post - it really made me stop and think about WHY my school keeps telling me they have no control over peanuts in school when they have so much interest and control over so many other much less serious issues. i intend to use your post when i discuss this with them.

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 6:44am
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by joeybeth:
thanks for the post - it really made me stop and think about WHY my school keeps telling me they have no control over peanuts in school when they have so much interest and control over so many other much less serious issues.
specifically: [b]"when they have so much interest and control over so many other much less serious issues."[/b]
Do they really?

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 7:00am
anonymous's picture
Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Thank you Joey!!! I'm so glad that someone else could see my point of view on what the school [b]wants[/b] to control.
Gail, to me, it shouldn't matter if it is a rule or a policy...the words are the same, whether its a school rule (policy) set by the principal or a district policy (rule) set by the school board...the only difference is who is enforcing the rule, if its school policy, the principal is the enforcer and maker, if its a district policy, then the Superintendent is the enforcer...Its all in [b]how[/b] its enforced and how infractions are handled.
But they still enforce and discipline the students who break them whether its school or district policy. If they bring cell phones or beepers to school (this is a state policy in Florida), they confiscate the item and face punishment for breaking their policy, if they where a shirt that is inappropriate, (a school/district rule) then they have to take it off, and face in school suspension. My point is, they pick and choose what they want to control, and their stmts of [b]can't control[/b] is really I don't [b]want[/b] to control. IMO, its all political bull, and that is why it is such a battle.
[This message has been edited by Cam's Mom (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 7:34am
synthia's picture
Joined: 10/05/2002 - 09:00

Cam's mom
You go girl!!!!!
Don't stop now.
Love this site

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 7:54am
Gail W's picture
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

I do see your point. And I lived it during our 4 years of "working with" our school. It's frustrating you that schools put their effort (value) in to other more trivial concerns. I know and understand the frustration from the their inconsistency and hypocracy.
I suppose by raising their inconsistency with your school may offer them some perspective, and that definitely has value. But in terms of making [b]change [/b], my guess is that it's moot. As we all have so pointedly stated before, it comes down to law. The school can put forward these clothing/flag "bans" (what is what they are, right? bans), but they are baseless without the backing of the law. Schools can find lots of things to ban or attempt to control, and they can have a jolly time doing it, but I don't think they always hold up when challenged by law. Book bannings, flag burnings, hair styles, etc have certainly been challenged by parents/citizens excercising their freedom rights. Seems that these types of bans don't always hold up under legal challenge.
But it seems bans on firearms, tobacco, or drugs are upheld by the law. I would be interesting to know what Reed Martin would say...
I think schools are like sheep. They follow.
So....be a leader, girlfriend. Help create the law. Perhaps this is your destiny????

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 7:59am
Gail W's picture
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]Cam's mom
You go girl!!!!!
Don't stop now.
Love this site
This is still friendly, right? I'm getting the feeling that there are opposing "sides".
This is about the content, the ideas, right? Not supporting a "candidate"...
I'd really like to know what ideas you like or not like, synthia. I value your opinion.
I absolutely wish you all the luck in the world getting what you want with your school Lana. You know that I support you and have tried to help you in your efforts... even tho they are not what I have strived for myself.

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 8:05am
Gail W's picture
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

This thread is about how peanut bans are like or not like gun/drug bans, right? Not if we personally favor a school peanut ban or not, right?
Have I ever said I "oppose" bans? I don't want one for me, but I don't think I've ever said I oppose them because I don't. On the contrary, I've been quite vocal in my disappointment w/ FAAN due to their opposition to peanut bans.
Just getting that paranoid feeling that I may be being misinterpreted. Again. Sorry. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]


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