Peanut Free vs Drug/Gun Free Statements - How different are they?

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 12:03am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

This question was prompted in another thread, I felt the respectful thing to do was to start it's own thread rather than clogging up the thread it was questioned in.

Quote:Originally posted by Mommabear:

Peanuts and Drugs.

Apples and Oranges?

Currently, certain "drugs" are [i]illegal[/i]as well as non-prescribable, and may have the potential for incarcaration just because one would have them in one's possession. I will also note that certain legal drugs require a "prescription" to obtain or use. I *personally* believe that among the general population, peanuts are not considered as "distasteful",or carry the moral and ethical implications, as do "Drugs".

The term Peanut free has been discussed many many times on this board and some peoples opinion are they it is not possible to create a totally free environment of peanuts therefore they prefer the term *Reduce the Risk* over peanut free...that is the point with Drug free and Gun free statements as well.

Yes, drugs are illegal, alcohol is also illegal to minors...but the poisonous and toxic effects that alcohol and drugs have on children and adults, should they consume [b]more than their body can handle[/b] are the same effects that my son can have should he encounter peanuts...death....therefore, IMO, its not an apples and oranges comparassion.

Besides the whole reason it was even mentioned in the other thread was not comparing the end results of this vs that, it was given as an example of how the school can not guarantee the environment is totally free of guns, alcohol and drugs but they still use the terms Drug Free and Gun free...why would the peanut free term be viewed as anything different.

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 12:22am
synthia's picture
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Joined: 10/05/2002 - 09:00

Very good thread.
I would like to see everyones opinion on this.
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 1:03am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]...it was given as an example of how the school can not guarantee the environment is totally free of guns, alcohol and drugs but they still use the terms Drug Free and Gun free...why would the peanut free term be viewed as anything different.
[/b]
First, thank you Lana. I've been frustrated w/ the boards and lost my cool. Thanks for helping me out.
As sarah (williamsmummy) posted today in another thread:
[i]"I feel uncomfortable with nut bans, for nut bans we need nut inspectors!" [/i]
[b]Who are the drug and gun inspectors?[/b]
Our government. The school has a higher authority who regulates guns and drugs through licensing and laws. To declare themselves "drug free" or "gun free" doesn't take on any [i]added [/i]liability because the law places that repsonsibility elsewhere.
[b]Who are the "nut inspectors"? [/b]
There are none. Since no governmental regulation exists re peanuts (as w/ guns and drugs), the school would be assuming this regulatory role (and the liability) if they self-proclaimed a "peanut free" status.
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 1:06am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

sorry, double post.
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 1:21am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] First, thank you Lana. I've been frustrated w/ the boards and lost my cool. Thanks for helping me out.
As sarah (williamsmummy) posted today in another thread:
"I feel uncomfortable with nut bans, for nut bans we need nut inspectors!"
[b]Who are the drug and gun inspectors?[/b]
Our government. The school has a higher authority who regulates guns and drugs through licensing and laws. To declare themselves "drug free" or "gun free" doesn't take on any liability because the law places that repsonsibility elsewhere. Schools aren't compelled to take on a regulatory role because our already laws do.
[b]Who are the "nut inspectors"? [/b]
Since no licensing or law exists re peanuts (as w/ guns and drugs), the school would be assuming this regulatory role if they took on the "peanut free" claim.
[/b] HALLELUJAH
[b]HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH![/b]
[url="http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live"]http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely humming to myself. Loudly.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 1:29am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Gail, so are you saying that the school can say gun/drug free because their are govermental laws protecting their liability?
In other words, since there are laws restricting age/minors possessing guns/alcohol and laws saying drugs are illegal, that keeps them from being liable?
Since the law states what it does, they are allowed to "ban" guns/alcohol/drugs from the school?
I'm trying to clarify what you are saying. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 1:36am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

I'm saying that proclaiming "gun free" or "drug free" doesn't take on [b]additional [/b]liability. Schools are still responsible for enforcing laws when they are aware of violations.
Proclaiming "peanut free" [b]does [/b]take on [b] additional [/b] liability for a school.
Edited to say: I suppose I should add that I'm no lawyer. This is my understanding from our school (who probably paid a sh**load for legal counsel) and from previous legal consultation. Just my *personal understanding*.
MommaBear and Lana, I think my antibiotics might be kicking in. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 2:07am
river's picture
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Joined: 07/15/1999 - 09:00

I think I undertand what you are saying Gail W. but...
If the school policy is not properly adhered to or is not effective enough, would they be liable if a weapon came into the school, because of the term "gun free"?
Also, what of the legal drugs that they also try to keep out of the hands of students while at school. These can be ritalin, prozac, and even over the counter allergy medication. Is the school completely responsible for the legal drugs that come in but not responsible for the illegal drugs?

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 2:13am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Cam's Mom, I can see what Gail W. is saying. Sadly. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
This has something to do with drugs, guns and peanuts but probably doesn't answer your question whatsoever.
If a child brings a gun into my child's school, he has to pull the trigger to harm or kill my child. He can wave it in my child's face and although that would make my child nervous, it will not harm him.
If a child brings drugs into the school, he would have to sneak the drugs into my child's system in some way (via a drink, depending on the drug) to harm or kill my child.
Of course, that could be a very similar situation with a child that wants to harm or kill my child. He would have to sneak the peanut products into my child's system in some way (I'm talking ingestion of drugs and peanut products now) to harm or kill my child.
If a child brings a pb sandwich into my PA child's school, he simply has to wave it in my child's face to either harm and/or God Forbid (pardon me) kill him.
More and more in the Media (TV shows) we are seeing where food allergies are used as the way to murder someone (Many of us have posted about the shows extensively under Media). Also, more police departments are becoming aware that a child being threatened with a pb sandwich is being assaulted.
Torontosue went through a horrible experience with her PA child and the police had to be called.
There was a Canadian newspaper article about a FIL being charged with attempted murder after trying to kill his SIL with a peanut product.
Of course, that may all sound like silliness until you're faced with it.
Everyone remembers high school? Remember the stoners (or that's what we called them in the 1970's)? They were the druggies. I remember my high school distinctly because I was on the Student Council and wrote for the school newspaper. I also knew exactly where the stoners went to smoke their drugs every day.
I never saw a person with a gun in my school days at school.
But were the schools in the 1970's calling themselves "drug free"? If so, what about the laws about illegal drugs that could be enforced (as discussed in this thread) and why schools are able to call themselves "drug free". My high school certainly wasn't drug free and if any police officer had ever asked me where to find illegal drugs, I could tell him exactly where even though I was never a user. We all just knew where the stoners went.
So, have things changed that way in 30 years (or 25 actually) in that schools actually do pay attention now and notice that there are places where kids are going to do illegal drugs? No one at my school was 25 years ago. We never had the police at our school. We never had lockers checked.
I'd like to hope things have changed. I do know that there was probably a lot more going on than pot smoking (which I also don't agree with) where the stoners went at my school, but my soul, these days, I would be horrified.
(Sorry, Cam's Mom, I think I veered Off Topic, but wondering if I really did or not [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img] )
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 2:16am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Gail, thank you...
I beg to differ (respectfully, of course [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )
If the school declares a PF classroom and another student brings in a pnut product and the teacher doesn't see the product, reaction occurs...the school can't be liable b/c it has done what it can to protect the student.
Same scenerio, but the teacher does see the pnut product but does not take action, reaction occurs...the school/teacher is grossly negligent, therefore, they are liable.
Now say Cam's school does not put the safeguards such as PF class and table that I've requested after I have advised them of the danger it poses, reaction occurs, he dies (cringe)...the school did not protect my son and therefore is liable, they were aware of the danger but did not take action to prevent his death.
Now comparing gun/drug/alcohol free stmts, I'll bite the bullet and put my own family in the pit: My step daughter quit breathing and almost died as a result of alcohol poisoning, which she consumed on school campus...She drank the alcohol in the parking lot, returned to her class (20 mins late) and was in that class for another 70 mins highly intoxicated. The teacher wrote her up for disruptive behavior, she held the referral until after class, then took it to the dean after the class ended. My daughter went back out into the parking lot and finished drinking the liquor rather than going to her next class, she was found unconcious when school let out. Now, had this happened any earlier in the day, rather than the end of the day, she would not be alive today. The teacher was grossly negligent, making the school liable because she knew she was under the influence of something but chose to ignore it rather than immediately taking action.
Editing here to add, that my daughter is totally responsible for her actions, and had she stayed in the parking lot, not seen by anyone employed by the school, then I'd have to say that they wouldn't be liable.
Also want to say that no law enforcement was involved whatsoever, should they have been, yes, IMO.
[This message has been edited by Cam's Mom (edited May 06, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/06/2003 - 2:25am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by river:
[b] If the school policy is not properly adhered to or is not effective enough, would they be liable if a weapon came into the school, because of the term "gun free"? [/b]
I don't know. I would assume that a school would be held responsible to its policy. And if there was no policy, then responsible to law. When Mariah had multiple "contact reactions" a couple years ago, we used this information as evidence that the school did not have "effective" safeguards. But I'm not sure how I'd apply this to guns. I guess it might depend on evidence of a problem (like reactions for PA, or weapons found in a locker for guns) in order to show that current practice was ineffective.
[b] Also, what of the legal drugs that they also try to keep out of the hands of students while at school. These can be ritalin, prozac, and even over the counter allergy medication. Is the school completely responsible for the legal drugs that come in but not responsible for the illegal drugs?[/b]
Parents at our school are informed us of the district's policy that the school nurse oversees all (prescriptive and OTC) drugs. This came up in our meetings and (just for an example) we were told that should Mariah have an after-school event where she needed to take her meds, she would drop them off w/ the nurse as she entered the school, and then picked them up before leaving school. I don't know the parameters of "completely responsible", but I'd say that our district has a policy/system in place and has properly informed parents of it.
Does that answer your questions?

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