PA and Giftedness

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 3:41am
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It appears to me over the years of reading posts that a lot of children with PA are also intellectually gifted.

I have never read any studies of a correlation between the two but am wondering just how many of our PA kids ARE gifted. And has anyone heard of a propensity in PA kids to be gifted?

My PA son 7, hasn't been formally tested but is doing 8th grade math and reading at the level of a 12 year old. He's also an avid and very good chess player.

Barb

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 4:29am
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I don't know that I've ever heard of a connection, but my son is highly gifted and PA. He has been IQ tested.
I'm thankful that he is as intelligent as he is - I think it really helps him handle his PA.
It would be nice to share things about his giftedness with others, but it always seems to come across all wrong. KWIM? It's a shame, really. To have such wonderful things to share, things that are gifts from God, not things anyone can really brag about in themselves, you know, and people don't want to hear it. At least that's what I've gotten from people - family, even. I consider it an honor to even know someone with an IQ like his. But people are different.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 5:01am
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My three year old PA son has all the moms in his playgroup a little unsettled because his language skills are so far beyond the others. Some even doubted his age because he is tall as well. Yes, I think he is gifted.
Did any of your kids used to whack their heads as babies? I don't mean the rythmic crib think -- just bopping away ? I was terribly worried about this, my pediatrician reassured me it was normal. Then my friend told me that her brothers child used to do that and she thought he was very very disturbed. Turns out he is now working on his PHd and is a math genius. I read then that it is associated with high IQ. Maybe that and the PA are related.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 5:29am
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My kids are very bright but I don't think they are technically "gifted" - they both seem appropriately challenged by their classes.
I suspect if there is a correlation, it is more likely between PA.com and giftedness, not PA and giftedness. (i.e. gifted kids are likely to have smart parents, who are more likely to find and appreciate PA.com).

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 7:22am
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I agree with Greenlady. I think the correlation is that the members of PA.com are more likely to have gifted children. I think inteligence is a combination of genes and early childhood interaction. Those who are here are likely to be smart themselves, and are definitely very involved in the care of their children (all aspects, not just their diets). So I think they are more likely to be gifted, or at least pretty darn smart.
That said, PA DS has an IQ of 130, but also has a l;earning disability. Non-PA DD hasn't been tested, but is a straight A student, and on a standardized reading test at the beginning of 5th grade showed her reading is at an adult level.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 8:03am
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When Drew had allergy testing last year, his allergist asked if Drew was a good student. When we said that he was, the allergist said that slightly higher intelligence is one of the "perks" of having allergies. Has any one else been told this?
Edited to add: I don't know that I believe that to be true in all cases. And would tend to lean more toward the "PA.com and giftedness" link instead of the "PA and giftedness". Just my opinion.
[This message has been edited by Drew's mom (edited April 17, 2006).]

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 8:51am
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I agree with Drew's mom about PA.com. I have not heard about IQ level and PA. Although I feel that while nature gives her PA, DD also comes equipped with brain to deal with it (at least I think that's one very important tool). It's not so unfair after all.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 10:03am
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Hmmmmm.... I have known a LOT of gifted people in my life (both as a TAG student, later as a college/grad student in the sciences, and as a prof) and I can honestly say that I have [i]never[/i] met one who wasn't atopic. I never really thought about it, though, so my recollections may be biased.
I do think that bright people tend to seek mates with the same characteristics, though... so I have occasionally wondered if there are other things genetically packaged along with IQ potential that would therefore become that much more common or recessive traits that would surface as a result of that sort of selection. I have especially wondered if sensory processing disorders aren't in this category. I mean, these are not traits which are either "on" or "off", by any means.... more like a continuum, in which each generation gains additional expression of the trait. So genetic shift CAN occur as a result of a subgroup's preference for similar mates over several generations. (It does happen in nature.) And really, why wouldn't you seek out a life partner who relates to you in ways that most people don't, KWIM? Whether what makes you different is IQ or asthma or OCD or autistic behaviors. Or some combination. Ooo-ooo-- I know! Let's make our own TRIBE. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
But I digress. Overall I tend to agree with the correlation of PA.com and gifted kids.
We tend to be the kind of parents who are able to give our kids the kinds of advantages and attention that creates classic high achievement.
That and so many of us have multiple "issues" that make us desperate enough to go to the internet to find solace. LOL! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I mean, wouldn't it be awesome to [i]only[/i] have PA to worry about? [i]sigh.... I think this sometimes, but don't really mean it...[/i]

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 10:27am
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Yes, I've heard there is a statistically significant link between _allergy_ and high IQ before. I have 1 moderately gifted PA/TNA/MFA and 1 bright, adorable but not at all gifted PA/TNA.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 11:31am
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Oh, we might as well claim it. Our kids may not be able to eat peanut butter, but damn they are smart. pa.com, my foot.
Maybe PB and aflatoxin is bad for the brain.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 11:54am
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LAM - I know exactly what you mean. Nobody wants to hear about my child's giftedness either except my mother. I so long to boast about his accomplishments (why shouldn't they be celebrated?) but have long since quelled any such desire as I'm usual met with mumbles. He recently one the province junior chess tournament (under 8s) and I was so proud of him but couldn't really share it with many people. As I'm only made to feel like I'm just bragging. And yet, if any of my friends' children accomplish anything, I am very effusive. I haven't gotten my 7 year old tested as I have to pay for it privately here and it's about 300 euro (and well out of my monthly budget). I have thought about saving up so I can use a formal assessment to induce the school to make accomodations for him. Yet at the same time don't want to push too hard because they are already bending over backwards on PA (they even hired a special needs assistant to keep an eye on him, administer meds as necessary, etc.)
hopechapel - I'm not sure what you mean by the head banging thing?
I think Greenlady makes an interesting point. But I'm wondering if IRL there are a lot of atopic gifted kids and there is any research to show this.
Corvallis mom - I think you make an interesting point about genetics. Have you read anything on this?
Barb

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 1:23pm
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My 5 year old ds with PA is also fairly obviously gifted although not tested yet(reading at 3rd-4th grade level and 2 years ahead in math). Oddly he also banged his head as a baby. In our case I think it has made PA more difficult though because he is very sensitive but his ability to communicate his feelings and his social skills lag. He shows some signs of Asperger's although we have been told he likely is not. I worry about him because I don't think he'll have the social support a more easily likeable kid would have. It's sad but true. Non-PA 3yr old DS would have everyone rallied behind him.
And then today when I tried to be funny and demonstrate how he should yell out in kindergarten next year if he was having a reaction and NOT use his manners he started to cry because he thought I was yelling at him =( It's so hard to figure out how much to educate him and how much to baby him...I think he understands too much how scary it is.
TJsmom

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 8:41pm
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tjsmom - If you haven't already, please check out the Non-verbal Learning Disability thread going in Off Topic. (Sorry to keep going on about this, but having a child with NLD makes me really want to help others who do - or might.)

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 8:52pm
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I don't think it has a thing to do with PA. My son is very smart with his certain abilities in art but my others have their field of intelligence in other areas. My dd is an awesome singer and on the honor roll. My little one is very smart in many spots as well. Never would I call my child gifted. I feel that I am gifted just in having them.
My niece has No allergies at all and her teachers feel she should advance a grade level ahead. My brother and sister in law said NO way to that. She needs to play with kids her own age and never be pressured into getting good grades or she may develop emotional issues. She is very good in her age level. Take care claire

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 8:54pm
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barb1123 - I'm sorry to hear you've run across the same kinds of reactions we have. At least you have one person who will listen and be excited for you and your son. My husband and I pretty much only have each other to be happy with. My dad feels that being "that" smart is more of a negative than a positive. My MIL is too busy doting on her "favorite" grandchildren to notice the accomplishments of our kids. Our friends, well, we've shared with a few, but stopped after getting not-so-great reactions there, too. And, unfortunately, even teachers have given us negative reactions. I've even considered removing his IQ score from his records to prevent any further problems. And I totally understand about not wanting to ask even more of the school system - above and beyond the already daunting task of dealing with PA.
It really surprises me. You'd think people would be happy to hear about successful kids - they're our future.
Congratulations to your little guy! Sounds like he's doing just great! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 9:55pm
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i dont know if being allergic to peanuts has anything to do with iq or not, but i agree with everyone that says they cant talk about there childrens acevements with out sounding like they are braging.
my pa son is a little smarter than average, thoe its hard to tell because he just dosnt talk, and has some sensory issues, but our daughter is highley intellengent. and i have been met with negitive responces from our friends when i am excited about her latest discovery or a new book that she has read or an obscure fact that pops out of her mouth,
its like unless your children are average dont talk about them.
i have also found with my daughters teachers they dont know how to handle her, intellengence ( god i m the worst speller)
they have said to me several times that she is to smart for them and she should be in kindergarden (she is in pre k now). i think the teacher this year dosnt pay as much attention to her as she needs, the teacher last year was great and taught her how to read and wright at the age of 3!!!
sorry this was such a long winded post i just like to talk about my kids!

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 10:24pm
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My 10 yr old son is PA has been identified and placed in a gifted prgram at school. However on the other hand there are no other PA or FA kids in the program?

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 11:41pm
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Read some of the work of Camilla Benbow. She has written quite a bit about the relationship of allergies and giftedness. She has also written about the left-handedness and nearsightedness connection.
[This message has been edited by Elisabeth (edited May 14, 2007).]

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 11:51pm
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Truthfully, I think a lot of "giftedness" has to do with parental involvement.
So far my first three kids have been identified as "gifted" through IQ testing and performance evaluations through the school district. Will get the last tested early next school year. As a former educator, however, IQ can mean absolutely zilch. The potential is there, that's about all it identifies. Parents that are involved from the get-go usually have kids that perform very well in school. IMO, that can have a tremendous impact on identifying kids as "gifted".
If my parents had the same expectations for me AND (this is VERY important) were involved in making sure we were handing in all our homework, studying for our tests, getting any help immediately, I'm sure all of us (my siblings) would have done extremely well in school. Only one out of my mom and dad's four children excelled in school, due more to sheer internal motivation than anything else (and it wasn't me LOL!). All of us definitely had the brains and ability, but my parents just weren't that good at bringing out the best of our ability. Kind of hands off, until the report card came then we'd hear the shrieks and hollers.
For example, I never did Geometry homework and my grades proved it. My parents never once thought to ask me if my Geometry homework was done, never inquired to the teacher about it, and this kind of stuff happened every year with me. DH and I are quite different. We are on top of our kids all the time. And it shows academically. We've both learned from our own parents lack of involvement and how it affects school performance.
I see it at school too. *Most* of the identified "gifted" students have very involved parents.
As far as PA and Giftedness is concerned, I really don't know. Only one of my 4 kids is PA.

Posted on: Mon, 04/17/2006 - 11:54pm
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My pa dd is gifted, IQ 145. She is in a class at school only for gifted kids. There were pa twins in her grade and they were identified as highly gifted. I don`t talk about her giftedness with others at all, unless it is parents of other gifted kids (I know who the other gifted kids are because they are all in one class). I just think it is rude to talk about her giftedness with parents of kids who aren`t. I would no sooner do that than go up to someone who is overweight and let them know that I am a size 4. I just don`t see it as right. Just my personal opinion.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 12:02am
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CarefulMom,
A thought for you. Say a child was very good at sports. Say they won competitions, trophies, etc. Should the parents say nothing to anyone whose child wasn't an athletic star? Well maybe, but most parents brag away and nothing is thought about it. You see the articles and pictures in the newspapers, etc.
My child is average at the sports he does but I take no offense if someone else talks about their child's sports achievements. I think it's great and children should be commended (which I equate to encouragement) in all aspects where they excel (or even if they don't excel but are trying their best)
So, why shouldn't I be able to share my son's abitilities and accomplishments just because they are academic? Why shouldn't he be celebrated and encouraged?
Barb

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 12:35am
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Lam, Thanks and I'm on the same page with you. I like to share info I have including PA with others but am learning many don't appreciate advice/info of any sort...why do you think that is? I've gotten more cautious because it seems to irritate many women. Of course those on this board probably fall more into the info/advice lover category =)
I also agree on the school issue. As DS starts kindergarten next year I face the dilemna of setting up a 504 for him and worrying about his safety 1st and foremost but also asking them to keep him challenged AND potentially dealing with social and behavioral issues that may arise from his asynchronous development. I feel like I am going to be considered a big pain in the rear and pray they won't see him that way as well.
TJsmom

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 1:02am
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I think what CarefulMom is saying is true, to a point, but I also sympathize (totally) with Lam and Barb. My mom is awful about it. DH's family is better.
I mean, it [i]would[/i] be rude to talk about your elite gymnast right after I tell you that my daughter (6) still has training wheels on her bike... right?
So if one of my friends or coworkers talks about their kids, it isn't my place to immediately "one-up" them, even though my daughter's performance in nearly all academic subjects easily could. It it rude to tell them that she just finished a Mark Twain novel when they tell me how excited they are that their child voluntarily read two early readers on Saturday.
(When this situation recently arose, the person said " (sigh) I know it isn't like what XXXXX reads, but for us it was a big deal..." My response was an enthusiastic "Good for your kid!! What a big step forward, and you [i]should[/i] be proud.)
On the other hand, when my daughter easily makes the honor roll (95% plus) in THIRD GRADE... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] I'd sure like it if people could be happy about that. But I've learned to keep my mouth shut.
I think all children's gifts should be celebrated. Not just the ones we don't all aspire to. We don't seem to have so much trouble recognizing and applauding athleticism or artistic/creative talents.
My parents didn't have the ability to do a lot for me... but being "smart" was definitely something that mattered. To my dad. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] My mom has always seen it as being "too big for your britches." I had serious self-esteem issues because of that conflict. I couldn't help being different, but my mom didn't exactly instill confidence. I was a classic underachieving gifted kid.
I won't do that to my gifted daughter. This is not something to be ashamed of any more than being PA is.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 1:19am
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My DS will be 18 next month. He was verbal and "wise" early on but I don't recall him reading early. However once he started reading, he accelerated quickly and was in full day gifted programs 2-6th grade and then in advanced courses in Jr. and Sr. High. And if I could brag a little more [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] he scored a perfect 800 out of 800 on the math portion of the SAT last fall.
When he was little I do recall wondering if any of the meds he was on (mostly for his asthma) would someday be found to have "brain" side effects and therefore make him ineligible for scholarships - kind of like steroid use making athletes ineligible for record books (I'm laughing as I type this because I actually wondered about that!)
------------------
Jana
[url="http://www.seattlefoodallergy.org"]www.seattlefoodallergy.org[/url]

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 1:45am
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CorvallisMom, I love your post. It makes sense to me re: selection of a mate, genetic shifts, maybe clusters of genetic traits.
Yes, my children are gifted. Not an official word from the school yet, but my non-PA 2nd grade son just went through the testing. My PA kindergartener works well above the level expected of her in school. The little one's an advanced talker, too -- no conclusion on her PA status yet. My husband didn't have a gifted program at his school but has a very high IQ. I was in my school's gifted program. We don't have food allergies, just other allergies. I tend to think it's the sort of people who seek out a website like this who are smart, thus have smart kids, but there's always that possiblity of related genetic traits.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 1:51am
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Some of these gifts we are discussing here (academics, sports, creativity) are important and worthwhile. I like to see kids commended for their efforts in these areas.
However, there are other areas that it makes me upset because kids are never recongnized for these attributes. Kindness, empathy, caring, social skills...Personality traits that go far beyond the bragging rights of saying, "My child has a genius-level IQ and is always on Distinguished Honor Roll."
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anyone here does that. I don't have to tell anyone my kids are highly intelligent. The newspaper does it for me with the Distinquished and regular Honor Roll lists. DD#1 is on the National Junior Honor Society. People already know she is smart. Her peers know she's smart, and many of her peers are just as smart.
What impresses me the most are the intangibles that most of the time are not recognized. Those are the things that people really have the right to brag about. And I like to hear about these, far more than any academic and sports awards.
People don't necessarily get ahead in life because of high IQ's. I know plenty of social idiots and plain, old nasty people who are extremely intelligent. Personally, a high IQ and the "gifted" label doesn't make a person if you KWIM.
But hey. That's just my opinion [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] .
So if I hear another parent discussing the wonderful academic or sports progress of their kids, I want to know, "But do they have a good heart?" That's is just so important to me. And, of course, they'd probably look at me with a look like, "Are you an idiot? What does that have to do with anything???" LOL
[This message has been edited by ryan's mom (edited April 18, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 2:34am
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What a great point-- I think you are on to something there!
I think that the reason may be because those are also the things that make us adults look at ourselves (or our children)and find them [i]wanting[/i], for lack of a better term. I mean, if my neighbor's child serves each Saturday in the local homeless shelter and vacations with Habitat for Humanity, paying her own way, in junior high.... what does it say about me or my child that we don't? Maybe it says that we aren't that "nice"? And since most people agree that you should try to be "nice" it makes you feel like you aren't measuring up, KWIM? Nobody likes to feel like they should be trying harder.
I think this may actually be related to the issue of what most people have as "aspirations" or values. Most people don't have trouble saying "Oh, I'm not _____" (creative, artistic, athletic) and letting go of that... but try "Oh, I'm not compassionate" on for size. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img]
Same thing as "Oh, my kid isn't smart," right?
Frankly, I think that my daughter's extreme empathy for people with physical or mental challenges is one of the most special things about her. (So I guess what I am saying is that I agree...)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 3:30am
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If my dd were winning trophies for a sport, I doubt I would tell a parent of a child who maybe wasn`t very coordinated or athletic. Here in Los Angeles it is pretty common for parents to try to get their kids into acting or modeling. We know people who have tried for years with no success. Dd got stopped at a Toys R Us by an entertainment scout, and since then has appeared in two movies, several national commercials, several national magazines, and two TV shows. I don`t tell anyone at school about it, the same way I wouldn`t tell other parents if she got a trophy for sports if their child wasn`t getting a trophy for sports. I do see that pretty much the same as telling a parent about my child`s perfect Math CAT 6 score (600 out of 600 on state testing) when that parent`s child is not getting scores like that. I do celebrate and encourage dd`s giftedness, but it is really between her and me. I praise her for her straight A report card, but I don`t tell others about her straight As in academics. However, I do tell others about her straight As in behavior, because any parent can teach their child to be a kind, caring person. Her straight As in behavior are something any child can achieve. Sports medals, perfect math scores, and appearances on television and movies are not something any child can achieve.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 3:52am
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tjsmom - don't feel bad about telling your son to shout out in class if his allergies acted up and making him cry. I am ashamed to say that I COMPLETELY traumatized my son when he started preschool at age 4. I was so emphatic about not touching other people's food, not eating any food that wasn't in his lunchbox, making sure it was HIS lunchbox, etc. or he could DIE. The poor child. But in my own defense I was so petrified about letting him out of my sight (he is extremely reactive and allergic to many things) I wanted to instill some of that fear in him to protect him. Sigh (We do the best we can, don't we?) I know you said your son doesn't have Asperger's but only some traits of it and you're worried about his social skills. Well, my son's best friend in his class actually has Asperger's and he gets along just fine.
Lam - you can email me any time to brag about your kids or just to chat. There are many advantages to living here in Ireland but one of the disadvantages is that there is not ONE gifted program in the entire country. Not a one. He's lucky this year as he has a teacher who is really working with him and is trying to at least get him subject accelerated. His teacher last year was hopeless. The principal's attitude is "the gifted kids always fend for themselves" Sigh.
Smudgesgarden - if your daughter's teacher thinks she should be accelerated why don't you ask her to approach principal about it. I think that early years are easiest to accelerate as there are overlaps in ages, etc. I agree a good teacher can make all the difference. But even then it can be difficult for gifted kids to get the extra work they need. Especially where there are 30 boys in the class like in my son's class. Can you imagine 30 7 year old boys? Teachers deserve a medal (good ones that is).
Elisabeth - Thanks for that info. I will follow up on it.
ryan's mom - yes, I find that's true. My son coasted along at kindergarden and a few months in 1st grade before I picked up some fun math quiz books at the grocery store (5 minute quizes) and he just zoomed through them. I was like, "where did you learn THAT?" Once I woke up I started giving him a little bit extra work after school and he started flying through things. If I had never discovered that he was so smart, would he be so smart? Does that make any sense? i.e. he had the capability, though unexplored, but once acknowledged and encouraged, he just flew.
Corvallis Mom - great post
ryan's mom - I also agree about personality traits. These too should be celebrated (and frequently are). There is a boy in my son's class who is slower than a lot of the others in schoolwork. One morning as I was waiting outside with my son before school (the boys line up outside if it's not raining) a few of the boys were making fun of another boy (a foreigner). They pulled at his lunchbox and it opened and spilled. They laughed. I shouted them off and they ran. This one boy came over, helped the foreign boy pick up all his food. He carefully dusted off the boy's apple on his shirt and handed it to him and then sat down next to him on the bench and talked to him. I was very moved by this act of kindness and proceeded to tell the teacher how nice this boy was and when I saw his mom a few days later I praised him and praised him to her.
Barb

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 4:30am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Here's a question for everyone, though....
it is related to Carefulmom's most recent post... which got me thinking about how others percieve our daughter and the things we do in response to them.
Do you ever find yourself (not within child's hearing [i]of course[/i]) emphasizing your child's "shortcomings" to make others more comfortable? I find myself doing this sometimes... because many adults (other kids seem to just love her) are a little intimidated by her... she can come across as [i]angelic[/i] for lack of a better term. Too kind, too thoughtful, too smart, too pretty, too too too much. She is welcomed even in places most children aren't-- like meetings, fine restaurants and upscale stores.
(And no-- it isn't just me. Even people we do not know are fascinated by her. Adults [i]watch[/i] her when we are out... they do it benignly, but it is a bit odd.)
So anyway, I try to emphasize that she is faaaarr from perfect. I talk about her stubborn streak in negative terms, I talk about her lack of athleticism... her gawkiness in dance class...
It works; that is, it makes people less uncomfortable...it is as though they relax when they realize she's not perfect or anything and we don't think of her that way. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img] I don't know if I am explaining that right. I just wonder if this is fair. Or if anyone else does this.
PS- Jana your son's scores are AWESOME!! You must be very proud. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I've also had thoughts like yours... wondering if zyrtec and albuterol have some mental benefit. Other than making you willing to stay awake for spring and summer. Heeheehee.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 5:54am
anonymous's picture
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This is not pointed to anyone here, but usually when I hear a parent going on about their child's/children's this/that/or the other, I get the impression they are somehow trying to live vicariously through their children. Almost as if they have something to prove with their own self worth. Just a general comment on what I see.
I'm guilty of that--with my mother. My one sister was the "intelligent brain" in the family. I'm always mentioning how #1, #2, #3, or #4 of my kids did this or that. Yeah, it goes back to esteem in my family zone. Doesn't seem to matter though. My mom and dad didn't even really acknowledge the fact that I got a MS degree--only one of their kids that got a graduate degree. They sure do like to talk about my sister and how well she did in high school though, even to this day. (kay...let me do my eye roll now and say to myself, "SO WHAT!!!" Now I feel better [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] ! ) What my sister had in brains, she somehow lacked in strong motivation and desire IMO. She never really aspired to use her intellect to the best of her ability.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 6:43am
becca's picture
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Reading along here. Our kids are certainly bright, IMO, but I do not think gifted.
That said, I cannot stand when anyone brags on and on about their kids. There is a difference between bragging and having pride. I think it is extremely important to express pride in your children's accomplishements to them(and I am sure you all do) and in front of others. I think it is fine. Pride is not bragging.
For example, we are all asked how our kids are doing in general, or at a specific task or club or interest. It is perfectly appropriate to say you are very proud of dd or ds for the terrific work they just finished in the program they attend at school or such. That is totally different than ragging on and on boastfully.
Do not be afraid to mention their accomplishements. I enjoy hearing such things. I find it very impressive.
That is not the same as bragging. becca
[This message has been edited by becca (edited April 18, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 7:09am
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Ryan's Mom
I find your last post to be unfair. I certainly am not trying to live vicariously through my children. I've had a very full life and am quite content with my own abilities. Personally, I would like just to be able to say, I'm so proud of my son, he did xy or z. This accomplishes two things, one I am able to praise my son to other people which makes him feel good and helps motivate him (i.e. why do things if there's no reward and praise is a very strong reward for a child) and two I am able to share good news. I certainly never go on and on about my son's abilities or accomplishments and one of my first posts stated my dismay at not be able to share this with anyone except my own mother.
Barb

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 8:30am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Corvallis Mom, I do it all the time. And I'll frame his intelligence as shortcomings to gauge the rxn as well. I don't want to lose any friends over it but our kids are what my mommy friends and I talk about and how much can you hide who your kids are? Mostly I talk to 2 good friend and SIL who have kids of similar ages and abilities and we talk about the challenges it presents (getting resources at school for ex) and save the straight out 'guess what ds did today?' for the grandmas...they appreciate it =) Plus I hear when you're a grandma there's more leeway to brag!
TJsmom

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 10:14am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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I didn't really read Ryan's Mom's post that way at all... Becca made some great points.
But I think that it [i]is[/i] a hard thing to understand when you literally cringe when someone asks a question that you aren't sure you should answer truthfully about your child... because of them being gifted in that capacity.
I don't think this is about the lack of being able to "go on and on" about a gifted kid...
It is more about the reluctance to even be totally HONEST when someone asks you a casual or simple question... because you are wondering if they are going to interpret your (honest) answer as insufferable boasting.
I mean, people sometimes ask my daughter questions like "Are you in kindergarten?" or "Are you learning how to read yet?" She needs the social skills of a master diplomat to deal with this without sounding boorish.
So I think that is really what many of us were talking about as being frustrating. What should be a source of joy and pride becomes a topic you hope "just doesn't come up."
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited April 18, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 11:11am
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Wow, some really great points have been made since I was here this morning! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] A few that stand out...
1st - Claire - Just wondering, what did you mean by stating "Never would I call my kids gifted?" It read wrong for me - maybe I'm just in self-defense mode. Habit. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
2nd - About trying to 'downplay' our kids' giftedness... I do find myself trying to "normalize" BOTH my kids in everyone else's eyes - bringing the gifted down a bit, and lifting up my NLD son some (actually, just trying to explain his behaviors to end all the questioning going on in people's minds). I've caught myself on several occasions, and I'm trying to stop. No one else 'explains' their children, so why do I feel the need to explain mine? (Well, I know the answer to that - I've always been a people-pleaser. And I DON'T WANT MY KIDS TO BE ONE, TOO, so I have to stop!!) Sorry - self-counseling there! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
3rd - While I understand the thinking behind the "IQ doesn't mean zilch" comment - and totally agree with it - I want to explain my fascination and appreciation of high IQ scores. It's not the score itself - it's what the score represents - the sheer potential is awesome to me. My son's IQ is in the top 1% of the population - that still makes me giggle - just the awesome potential... I pray God will see to it that my son uses all that potential for good. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
4th - I agree that talking about our kids' giftedness, successes, achievements and the like should be done with tact and with appropriate timing, but it's hard not to come across wrong even when those things are taken into consideration.

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 11:59am
perpetually perplexed's picture
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I thought it was strange for my PA DS to have 3 other "PA gifted friends" at his school. They are in the 3rd and 4th grades. The only other identified gifted child in school has adhd.
Maybe it isn't so strange after all?
PP

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 8:22pm
Cliok's picture
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I can't quantify my PA child's intelligence because we've never had her tested and wouldn't really be interested in going down that route anyway. However, she is incredibly bright and stuns me sometimes with her ability to pick things up and her wit. I so feel on some level that if she is gifted in this way, perhaps it's a compensation on some level for having to deal with PA/MFAs or perhaps a tool to enable her to deal with it better.
We have a lot of contact with people who have learning disabilities or are physically disabled in some way and I feel that we each have our individual gifts and strengths that we should nurture and appreciate - intelligence is one gift but there are so many others that add to our existence.
Barb, in relation to Ireland, DCU in Dublin have programmes for gifted children as far as I know. They may just be short camps but perhaps it would be worth considering. I know that resources here are thin on the ground but there are some..

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 9:09pm
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Ryan's mom, I very much agree with what you said about the importance of other qualities. Now I'll take a moment to brag about DD, if you don't mind. Some of you may know from another thread that I am doing a 60-mile, 3-Day walk to raise money for breast cancer. Well, those of us walking are only half the story. We certainly couldn't do it without the wonderful crew, who set up, man, and take down the rest areas, set up the campground, supply us with water and snacks, watch out for our safety, and many other jobs that I probably do not even know of. Well, my 10-year-old (will be 11 by the event), is a part of the youth corps crew. It's really an honor, there are only 20 kids chosen for it. But it will be 4 days of hard work (they arrive a day before the walkers to get started). She also needs to raise $400 for the cause to participate. I am so proud of her. I would be proud even if she hadn't been chosen, just for wanting to do it and applying. And the application showed me something else. There were essay questions in the application, and while editing her answers (she wrote them herself, but I helped to edit), I realized just how much volunteer work she has done. I am really very proud. Sorry for being so long winded in my bragging.
Becca, I think there is a difference between stating one is proud, and going on and on bragging. The long windedness of what I just wrote about my DD seems to contradict this (but I felt I needed to give background info for you to understand what I was saying). But I do tell people (usually family and close friends) about my kids accomplishments. But then I let it drop. I try to to go on about it too much. If they would like to hear more, they will ask. And I don't do this on a regular basis, just when I am excited about whatever they have just done. And sometimes this is not really bragging, either (I know that it is nothing special for a ten-year-old to learn to ride a 2 wheeler, but I was excited and told people about it last year just the same).

Posted on: Tue, 04/18/2006 - 9:11pm
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Just to clarify--my comments and opinions were not pointed toward anyone here. Just my own experiences in the community in which I live.
Just last night DH came home from a sports practice for my daughter. He mentioned how the woman group saying something about "Olympic Mom" not being there. Kind of mocking the absent mother of a gifted sports athlete. I'm not particularly fond of the mom either for some of the reasons mentioned above. But I'm not about to make fun of her either.
Just my observation of things.
It was mentioned in a previous post that any parent can teach their children proper and commendable behavior. Yes, this is true. But as DD#1 was quoted in her speech at her induction into the Honor Society, "...Character is doing the right thing when no one is looking, and when it will not be acknowledged by others..."
High intelligence is special. It is a gift to be appreciated. But *** IMO *** the real braggard rights belong to adults and children with the intangibles found under the heading of "Good Character". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] And, yep, volunteerism was mentioned and that certainly falls under that category. There are lots of very smart people in this world. My worry in society today is lack of character and ethics. But that is another topic altogether...
[This message has been edited by ryan's mom (edited April 19, 2006).]

Posted on: Wed, 04/19/2006 - 12:47am
TRexFamily's picture
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I have 4 kids. We homeschool the older two but both are allowed to take the gifted classes at the local public schools. (Both tested and qualified.) They don't because we just don't have time in our schedule. My oldest (DD, 10 is finally outgrowing her eczema. NKA, no asthma) DS # 1 is 8 and has reflux and enviro allergies. No food allergies, no asthma.
DS # 2 (6 and in K) was evaluated by EI for speech delays at 25 months. He tested at a 48 month + level on the mental reasoning eval. He could do every task on their eval, and they ran out of tasks. At 3, he was evaluated by the public school for speech and fine motor delays. He tested on the 8 year old + level for mental reasoning. Again, he could do every task on their evaluation. He has asthma, but no known allergies. His speech therapist recommended that I read a book called The Einstein Syndrome about very smart/gifted children who talk late. His K teacher told me that he is extremely smart and will qualify for gifted classes when he's older.
DD # 2 (2 3/4 years) was evaluated by EI for speech at 19 months. She could do every task on the mental reasoning eval; she tested at the 48 month + level also. She has eczema, asthma, enviro and multiple food allergies. She is falling into the Einstein Syndrome pattern too.
I don't know if there's a link or if it's coincedental, but all of my kids have an atopic disorder and are gifted.
Anne

Posted on: Wed, 04/19/2006 - 2:37am
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barb1123
to answer you question on why we didnt talk to her principal about moving our daughter up a grade. i want her to be in class with kids her own age. and i think that at her age socialation is more improtant, besides if she becomes board with school we will get her a tutor and teach her a second language or something like that.
i just want her to be happy and she is.
maybe some day she can teach me how to spell. ha ha ha

Posted on: Wed, 04/19/2006 - 3:10am
Dunpun's picture
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Joined: 01/26/2004 - 09:00

This topic made me laugh as I was just discussing this yesterday with my sister. I was saying how my PA ds is a big UNDERachiever. He is 6, I think very smart, but is sooooo lazy, he will always take the easy way out.
He actually wants to change schools for grade 2 because at his school "the math is too hard" lol
He is so outgoing and has many friends, I never worry about him being teased for his FA's. One worry I can live without.
I see him as so smart, funny and having many talents (none of which he will ever try and excell(sp?) in) Maybe this will change as he gets older (but I'm starting to doubt it). I would like to have him IQ tested and see !!! (I am sitting here laughing at the thought actually)
He's my little guy and I love him dearly for who he is, My non-PA ds is the one I would claim (or brag) was the smart one.
Have a great day
Linda

Posted on: Wed, 04/19/2006 - 11:18pm
MarkiesMom's picture
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Joined: 02/23/2006 - 09:00

I've been reading a book by Thomas Sowell, The Einstein Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late, and here's a quote:
"there are a number of other anomalies that are far more common among children with high IQ's, or children who are musically gifted, than in the general population. Left-handedness and childhood myopia, as well as allergies and other immune systen disorders, are all more common among high-ability people than among people of average ability. There is even a name for such a phenomena: 'The pathology of superiority'...members of the high-IQ Mensa society, for example, show much higher incidences of allergies than in the general population" The book goes on to talk about brain development and "in some people , [early competition of the brains regions] can result in the intellectual functions of the brain getting a disproportionately large share of the resources and some other funtion or functions ending with skimpy resources. The net result, according to neuroscientists who support this hypothesis, can be very smart people who are very susceptible to allergies, for example, because that part of the brain which controls their immune system does not get enough resources to cope with all the irritating things in the environment."

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 1:49am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

So there's some evidence supporting the 'nerd stereotypes'? Sniffly nose, glasses, wheezing, ...That just blows my mind. I may have to read that book just because the concept fascinates me.
TJsmom

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 5:17am
anonymous's picture
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MarkiesMom-
Thanks for posting that! I'll have to find that book, too!
From that quote, my son was bound to have allergies. His IQ is 146 (genius), and he is incredibly musically gifted as well. My husband and I are musicians, but my opinion of our son's musical talent really is from an unbiased position - musicians are born critics, so I'd tell the truth whether he was musicially gifted or not. Our other son is NOT musically gifted. NOT NOT NOT! See, I have no problems saying that. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Thanks again for sharing the quote.

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 5:52am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Lam:
[b]. . . His IQ is 146 (genius), and . . .[/b]
that is also my PA daughter's IQ score. Her school describes it a "very superior". (didn't know that was "genius" [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/redface.gif[/img])
She reads right at grade-level, so her 'giftedness' wasn't detected until I pushed for her to get evaluated for a learning disability. It was when the school administered testing to uncover her LD that they also realized her high IQ. Before that, she was considered your average kid. . . So, yes > Gifted, LD, and PA.

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 5:57am
Carefulmom's picture
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Joined: 01/03/2002 - 09:00

Interesting how the cutoffs vary from school district to school district. In our district, IQ 146 is not considered genius, but simply gifted, not even highly gifted. Dd is 145 and she tested as gifted, but not highly gifted. Our district uses IQ 150 as highly gifted, and IQ 170 as genius. As it is 1/3 of the kids in our school are in the IQ 130 to 149 range (high percentage of parents who are highly educated, post college degrees, etc.). No one really bats an eye over dd`s IQ 145, since 1/3 of the kids in her school are in the same range.

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 6:56am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Carefulmom:
[b] In our district, IQ 146 is not considered genius, but simply gifted, not even highly gifted. Dd is 145 and she tested as gifted, but not highly gifted. Our district uses IQ 150 as highly gifted, and IQ 170 as genius. [/b]
I think our district must have a similar delineation. My nephew is 149 and did not qualify for "highly gifted". (He's not PA, BTW.)

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 7:05am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

My understanding is the the definition of genius is or was 145, or maybe it was 146. However, I am not sure if that definition is in use anymore. Link below are the definitions I am aware of...don't know if they are 'official' or not.
[url="http://www.educationaloptions.com/levels_giftedness.htm"]http://www.educationaloptions.com/levels_giftedness.htm[/url]

Posted on: Thu, 04/20/2006 - 9:16am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Our district did not define the scores. I found the definitions on the internet. I think I searched for IQ scores. It depends on which IQ test you were given. Each test scores differently.
[url="http://www.wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html"]www.wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html[/url]
[This message has been edited by Lam (edited April 20, 2006).]

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