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Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:00pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Sandra Y:
[b]I don't think it matters what caused the disability or disease in the first place. [/b]
WRT accomodation.......... I completely agree. ([i]jumping up and down with joy[/i])

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:04pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Gwen Thornberry:
[b]Sorry MommaBear, you struck a real chord with me, I could go on and on, but I won't!
[/b]
No need to say "Sorry" to me. (Your post had me riveted.) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:12pm
smack's picture
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Joined: 11/14/2001 - 09:00

My MIL has a handicap parking permit because she is large and has difficulty walking.
My personal opinions don't matter since I've never been obese nor have any family members that are.
My dh's family are all large.
Everything does come into play when someone is overweight(lack of exercise, bad food choices, eating for all the wrong reasons)however, I always thought overweight people may just have larger stomachs because if I overeat I sometimes could throw up!
Lots of things can be considered a disability. If you have two people with the same medical condition, they will experience it differently. One may be bedridden, the other walking.
In other words leave the diagnosis up to the Doctors/or individuals and the heck with everyone else.
Anyway, I agree mostly with Sandra Y [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:14pm
MommaBear's picture
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SandraY,
Just checked out the link. Noted there was a section entitled: "Disability Due to Obesity".

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:30pm
StaceyK's picture
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Joined: 05/06/2003 - 09:00

I have to say that I don't see obesity as a moral issue, either. In that it's not morally better to be thin than fat. But if the obese individual is unhappy and unhealthy and wants to change, there are a lot of things they can do - so many programs, so many behavioral changes that can be made. On the other hand, though my daughter's peanut allergy makes her unhappy and potentially very unhealthy from a reaction, there is no personal behavioral change she can make to make her PA go away. Also, the peanut allergy is potentially IMMEDIATELY deadly whereas obesity takes time to build up and potentially be deadly. One slipup with a carton of icecream doesn't make you fat. One slip up with a peanut could kill my daughter. While being obese makes you disabled on a day to day basis, it just is not in the same category of disabilities as PA in my opinion.

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:37pm
arachide's picture
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Joined: 08/16/2000 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] could you give me some examples?
[/b]
...of underlying medical conditions that may cause obesity?
Quote:Originally posted by Sandra Y:[b]
I'm always surprised by the stigma surrounding obesity. It's a medical condition, not a moral condition![/b]
Can it be argued that obesity falls into 2 camps? That caused by medical conditions and that caused by "controllable" external factors. If one's obesity is self-induced and self-imposed, is that not an immoral act done upon oneself? Let me explain what I think I mean...
Am I safe to presume that it's common knowledge that junk food and no physical activity are bad for your body? If a person chooses to forgo any effort to maintain a healthier lifestyle (and I'm referring to people who do NOT have underlying medical conditions), then they are knowingly doing something bad to themselves (moral issue?). It's a reversible choice. That's the crux there, the fact that it's reversible in those cases.
I absolutely agree that accomodations should be made to those who have "no choice", who cannot reverse their situations themselves.
Quote:Originally posted by Sandra Y:[b]
I don't think it matters what caused the disability or disease in the first place. Some people with spinal cord injuries did something stupid to cause their own injury, but they are just as disabled and are entitled to the same kind of accommodations as someone who was born with spina bifida, for example.[/b]
Yes, absolutely. But let's agree that a spinal cord injury is not reversible (yet!). It's not like a situation where the individual keeps giving themselves the accident over and over again... (likened to self-caused obesity)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] btw Sandra, I'm not trying to nitpick with you. Just found you raised some very good thought-provoking points.

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:48pm
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Joined: 03/14/2003 - 09:00

[quote]Originally posted by MommaBear:
is obesity a "medical condition"?
The definition of obesity is excess accumulation of fat. Does that qualify it as a medical condition? Or does it [i]cause[/i] a medical condition?? I also think you have to look at the reasons behind it. If you are like someone I know who eats a box of hohos in one day, gets extra mayo or extra dressing on everything, eats mcdonalds 4 times a week, does absolutely no exercise and is overweight, is that a medical condition? IMHO, NO! Maybe bad eating habits and laziness, but not an underlying medical condition.
Originally posted by momma2boys:
I dont want to be overweight so I watch what I eat and exercise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this method always achieve desired goals for everyone? Are there persons for whatever reason(s) that do not posess this capability? Are we all created equal?
I believe for most people, you can achieve this goal. [i]Desire[/i] to do so may impact the outcome. Surely there are those who have to battle heredity. I am one of those people. Losing weight isnt easy for most people, and its harder for some. There is body shape, bone size, etc, so not everyone will have the capability to be a size 6, but can you stay in a healthy range? Usually, unless you have metabolism problems or other medical problems.
Originally posted by momma2boys:
Why should we make special accomodations for those who choose not too?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it always a choice, or always a conscious choice?
No, not always a choice, and there are times I dont realize Ive been gaining. Then I realize it, and work on it. Yes it is a choice whether you exercise or not, and whether you eat at home or get the double whopper, eat one donut or 6.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by momma2boys:
I have no personal hard feelings against overweight people, just dont think its a disablility I should accomodate.
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Wondering if other persons have similiar sentiments wrt to other disabilities?
Absolutely they do. Thats why you have people who arent handicapped parking in handicapped spots or bitching about the amount of them. Or those who will send in peanut butter to school after being requested not to. If you accomodate everyone for everything, where do you draw the line? If Im just kinda lazy and dont like walking far, especially in the cold can I get a special parking permit? Im allergic to perfume, so should we ban it for public use, because if I go near you I get a headache and lightheaded? Im allergic to trees and grass. Could my neighbors please be forced to cut down their trees?
After all, lots of diseases are caused or influenced by lifestyle choices. Emphysema, lung cancer, diabetes, AIDS, heart disease, cervical cancer, even breast cancer...they can all be caused at least partly by things people do and choices they make in their lives.
I don't think it matters what caused the disability or disease in the first place. Some people with spinal cord injuries did something stupid to cause their own injury, but they are just as disabled and are entitled to the same kind of accommodations as someone who was born with spina bifida, for example.
I believe their is the issue of "personal responsibility" that comes into play. I know not all childhood obesity is due to overeating, but a lot of it is. A lot of it is fast food and junk food. These are poor choices by parents and then their child has health problems, should they be held responsible? Not only are you causing them physical problems, but what about the emotional when they go to school and are laughed at, and called names? That makes me really sad that kids are put in that situation.
I know this may sound like I have no compassion for people who are overweight, but I know a lot of people who are overweight. I have friends who are overweight. And they will all tell you its because they just dont have time to exercise, or dont have time to cook a healthy meal. They dont claim to have medical problems causing it.
Is it completely their fault, no, blame society for the greed most people have now, bigger and better, supersize, extra large, give me more food for my money. Food and treats in classrooms, candy as incentives to learn, toys at mcdonalds to entice kids to beg for that happy meal. Something def. needs to change.
Im not saying if you are overweight and have difficulty walking we should say, "sorry no wheelchair entrance for YOU", but how many people think the man AnnaMarie posted about should be under house arrest after a murder because he was too big to be in jail?? There have to be boundaries.

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:50pm
momma2boys's picture
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Joined: 03/14/2003 - 09:00

BTW Mommabear, I just prob. left myself wide open to slaughter with my opinions. So lets hear what your answer is to these questions [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:51pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Did anyone else check out the link?

Posted on: Thu, 01/08/2004 - 11:59pm
Sandra Y's picture
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Joined: 08/22/2000 - 09:00

Why would the cause of the medical condition even be a consideration when deciding whether a person is disabled. Who cares what caused it? The term "disability" is not a prize that is awarded to good people who suffer through no fault of their own. It just means the person's function is impaired.
Why would we say an obese person who overeats is not truly disabled? I mean, if she can't get down the stairs out of her house and hold a job, obviously she's disabled. Who cares how she got that way?
Arachide, I don't feel picked on at all, don't worry. I'm sure you'll see the light eventually! Hee!
And why am I up in the middle of the night arguing about obesity? Hmmm. I have no idea. Somehow it hit a nerve. Guess it reminds me of peanut allergy for some reason.

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