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Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 6:14am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

California Mom and Lam, we were posting at the same time. California Mom, thank-you for the hugs, very much needed, and I must say, even in cyberspace, much warmer from California (it has warmed up here slightly, but it's snowing and I'm just downright cold all the time - oh yeah, and then there's the furnace that isn't working to-day, forgot about that [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) I really appreciate your caring, concern, encouragement, and support.
Lam, no, the e-mail does not say that Jesse cannot attend the event. As I said in my last post to California Mom and actually answering MommaBear and Steve as well, these were almost the *exact* same words that were used, except in a telephone call, when I was told that Jesse couldn't go to the computer class. Not that he couldn't go, but that they couldn't guarantee his safety, yadda yadda.
It is only since that telephone call years ago that I have found out that they did have to accommodate my son and he should have been able to take the computer course rather than the ceramics course.
As soon as I saw the e-mail last night, I heard that phone call. It definitely does not have anything to do with what has been going on at the school (for me anyway, that's why in one of my e-mails to the principal I indicated this couldn't have been timed worse), but seems to be almost guidebook language for how to write things carefully to advise a parent. I'm not clear if it had to do with legalities, liability, etc. and they're hoping when you see "increased risk, can't guarantee safety of your son" you will simply back down (as I did once) and problem solved.
I do, however, see the teacher just checking with the bowling alley this week, rather than October month, when she first planned the event, as something to do with what has been going on between her and I or her and I/Jesse. I strongly believe she should have checked in October month because the children have been talking about nothing since, especially because, with Work to Rule, the trip has postponed. So, for him to find out this week, that it was *high risk* for him to go, no, definitely not okay in my books.
Gail W., I also wanted to say that I'm sorry about what happened with your daughter. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
You make the decisions that you feel are right for your children and it is sad when they're angry at you because of them. However, what I find (I'm hoping) about my kids compared to me is that my kids will at least tell me when they're angry and I will at least explain to them why a decision was made. When I was a kid (count back those 40 years please [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] ), you were given your parents' decision, no explanation, and heaven forbid you show that you were angry or upset about it. Or that was the case in my household anyway.
What I'm saying is that even though it was a really sad situation and one that did cause your daughter to be angry, you have communication on your side and it's not likely something that's going to send her into therapy in 20 years. (The *shoe* thing and the dreaded Pixie cut of 1967, neither of which I could speak about to my Mother, both sent me into therapy - I'm serious! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )
Many thanks and best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 11:15am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Jesse had gone to a birthday party on Saturday and then had a friend sleepover on Saturday night (I had wanted to post a sleepover thread in Off Topic, not about Jesse, in particular, actually Ember). At any rate, Sunday the kids got into the birthday party loot bag candy and by the time I took his friend home at 2:00 p.m., Jesse was complaining that he was sick to his stomach and tired.
I came home with his sister who had had the sleepover at another child's house at 3:00 p.m. and found that Jesse was asleep. He ended up throwing up around 4:00 p.m. and then he told me that he had thrown up at 6:30 a.m. (that morning) but he hadn't wanted to tell me while his friend was here.
So, we think that maybe he's had too much candy and junk.
Monday I keep him home from school. He didn't vomit again but complained that he was very tired. I was actually going to post a question in Off Topic about viruses with the most prominent symptom being tiredness.
To-day, I had to take him to the orthodontist and we had ourselves a journey for the day.
He did complain again that he was tired, but given the walking we did, that was okay. Well, sure enough, tonight around 5:30 p.m., he's vomiting again and nearly passed out tired. He has been vomiting off and on since then. He's downstairs right now so we can watch him and quite tired. He obviously has some sort of stomach flu. On a positive note, he does not have a fever.
Guess who won't be able to go to the bowling excursion tomorrow? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
Many thanks to everyone and best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Cindy Spowart Cook (edited January 28, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 12:40pm
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

"MommaBear, no, Jesse's plan does not indicate only safe places because, in reality, what would only safe places entail or how would one guarantee that a place was totally safe?"
LOL. I wonder if there Is anywhere on this planet "guaranteed" "safe" for anything? I wonder. Could "safe" places in "plans" be places that meet certain criteria? IE: Proximity to Emergency Services? Just wondering and running things through my head.
I think you misunderstood my comment about the liability waiver. By no means did I mean signing one. I had wondered if there was any possibility of inadvertantly waiving liability without signing a liability waiver per se, by nature of what could be found in a plan? Just wondering and running things through my head.
When we requested a "504" plan with the public school system, they brought a lawyer to represent them. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I wonder how many parents recruit legal representation when dealing with schools and such "plans".
Again, I am not a legal professional, not trained in any legal fashion, and am not offering legal advice of any kind. Just a mom wondering.
Is your plan posted on the site? I can't remember.

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 12:52pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Yes, MommaBear, my plan is posted on this site by I will send it to you via e-mail. I would really appreciate it if you could fine tooth comb it when you have the opportunity.
Now, I understand what you mean about liability. I do know that when I refused to sign the liability waiver when Jesse was entering the school system in this district, the school board contacted THEIR lawyer. To them, legalities seem to be very high on the list of things.
I'm not even clear if I can put this into words, but I was wondering something similar to you. If, by having a written school plan, which I don't really need to have in Canada, or Ontario at least, have I somehow mucked things up a bit, even though it was with every intention of making things clearer.
I don't think that my written school plan would be considered a legal document. Wait.
I'll ask this. Is a 504 Plan considered a legal document? If a 504 Plan is and our written school plans are basically just 504 Plans that adhere to our school boards' policies, then does that not make them legal documents? Or, because the school board already has policy in place does in really negate the written school plan as far as legal terms?
I am extremely fortunate. When I first got the computer and got on-line, I had two interests that I wanted to pursue - politics and finding out what I could about PA. I had posted in a discussion forum on politics and ended up meeting a gentleman, who has now been my very good e-mail friend for the past three years. He's *my* lawyer. He was the person who told me, along with almost every member of PA.com and Anaphylaxis Canada NOT to sign the liability waiver and he has also helped me along the way with a ton of different free legal advice and I have to say one heckuva good friendship (not because I'm getting free legal advice).
I will check with him to see if the written school plan would be considered a legal document here in Ontario.
I'm really sad about Jesse, as he now lies in my bed. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] I almost wish I could drag him over and to the bowling alley simply because of the work that we did do to make sure he would be able to participate safely (does anyone know what I mean?). He was a bit disappointed but when you're feeling as sick as he is right now the last thing on his mind is going bowling, even though it was the *thing* for months now. What we decided to do is go, as a family, for a bowling excursion (probably in May month when we come out of hibernation here [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )
Many thanks and best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 1:06pm
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Politics. Ya. I just watched the "State of the Union Address". Ya.

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 9:43pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

MommaBear, being Canadian, we didn't watch the State of The Union address, although I guess we probably *should* have, given the current things going on. We just sit and get ticked off that there is nothing on TV because of it [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I'm not sure if that's a *typical* Canadian attitude or not, all I know is there was nothing on TV last night!
My interest in politics was/is mostly provincial although my letters sometimes do go to the federal government as well and mostly about "social" issues.
However, I do have to say that after I found PA.com and started to post so heavily here (almost as soon as I got the computer), my letters to government have almost virtually stopped. I'm fortunate enough to have the friendship with the lawyer that does remain though.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 01/28/2003 - 11:57pm
Kim M's picture
Joined: 06/09/2001 - 09:00

Just to comment on the fact that the principal did not actually say that Jesse couldn't go on the trip. From the other problems that you have had, Cindy, I read the note as a passive aggressive way of getting you to pull him out of the trip yourself. Then they are not the bad guys and they avoid responsibility altogether. It sounds like this is how you read it, also.
I'm so sorry that after all you have been through Jesse will not be able to go after all. I just get a headache thinking about all the school issues we will have in the not-too-distant future. My 4yo DD just started preschool, at a peanut-free school, and they have a kindergarten program that we are seriously thinking about sending her to (pretty pricey; I can't believe I'm thinking about spending what I'm thinking about spending on kindergarten!) mostly because it would be one more year of not worrying about peanuts at school. From all the school stories I have read here, it seems like it's either good right from the start, or a nightmare all the way through. If people refuse to get it, it's pretty hard to get through to them in any way.
The only other comment I have is whether you would really be comfortable with Jesse's teacher as your parent designated supervisor (is that the right term? I can't remember exactly). It sounds like she has not been all that great in the past about keeping him safe and recognizing signs of a reaction. If it were me, I would probably insist on being there regardless of whether the teacher accepted this responsibility.
In any event, hugs to you because you certainly need them. It gets exhausting fighting for our kids, doesn't it?

Posted on: Wed, 01/29/2003 - 1:40am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Kim M., thank-you! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Yes, it does get exhausting fighting but somehow I think it's worth it and it also shows our children how to be pro-active as well (I'm hoping).
You have read about my horror story with this particular school this year, and yes, you have read about other people that have terrible times with the schools. However, I know that there are also a lot of people that don't have the difficulties that some of us do. I do know that Grateful had a thread running about non-peanut-free classrooms and she had quite a bit of response that would indicate school things can go smoothly.
I also notice a lot of regular members (i.e., Cayley's Mom) that don't pop into the Schools section all that often. I haven't asked directly, but I simply assume it's because they're not having difficulties and don't feel the need to come to this part of the board.
So, I know there are positive things happening out there and please don't let my threads dissuade you. Also, this is the first out of four years in the public school system that I have had such a horrible year.
Yes, I have banged my head along the way, but never like this.
I still haven't made the connection between the principal's e-mail and the situation at the school. It's because, as I said, her e-mail was worded almost exactly the same as the telephone call I received four years ago in a different school district. That's why I didn't think it was part of the ongoing situation at all with the school and that's why I had told the principal in one of the e-mails that the timing was just so wrong.
No, I wouldn't trust Jesse's teacher as his parent designated supervisor. I think I keep reiterating that in e-mails to the principal because I'm trying to make a point - that it has been done in the past and has been done with ease, without any difficulty, without any disruption, and with the teacher still being able to watch whoever else is in her group (from the field trips I've been on, we usually get 3 or 4 children each - I actually think we have a heckuva lot of parent volunteers if you're able to split a class of 27 into groups of 3 or 4, which is great). I have NEVER had the difficulty with a teacher that I have with Jesse's teacher.
But no, if it came right down to it, I would never say that she was the parent designated supervisor. I would prefer to have another parent that just knew the basics re PA as his parent designated supervisor than a woman, who, when he was having his anaphylactic reaction in her class, simply handed him off to the E.A. in training, continued on with her class and then later in the day when I went in to get his knapsack, asked me if I had a particular piece of homework ready to hand in [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img] MY SON COULD HAVE DIED TO-DAY IN YOUR CLASS, DO YOU NOT GET IT! Sorry - I do feel like screaming that. I also feel like screaming MY SON COULD HAVE DIED TO-DAY IN YOUR SCHOOL, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND? However.
I think I do continue to suffer from some kind of post traumatic stress syndrome thing that I would not be still suffering had Jesse not had the anaphylactic reaction last month at school. It's the first one at school and the first one in a few years. I think if it had been with me it would have been different. It was at the school and even though I had been with him at the breakfast program, it is a place that I have to send him every day. The other times he's had reactions, they weren't even in our home, but certainly not at school and also places that we never had to go to again. However, I digress.
But Kim, yes, it could be a passive aggressive way of wording also (I *should* know this as I am the Queen of Passive Aggressive behaviour [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] - nothing to be proud of, I know [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] )
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 01/29/2003 - 2:07am
sport's picture
Joined: 10/01/2002 - 09:00

Cindy-I am very sorry that you are still having trouble with your son's school. I have to tell you that I can understand your hostility toward school from reading your posts. You told me before that you would not walucky to be your son's teacher, but you would because that would never happen. I teach each of my children at school academics, but I also teach them to love and respect one another. I wish you could experience that at your school. My children have been lucky to have good teachers. Good luck--things will get better. I will pray for you and your little one.

Posted on: Wed, 01/29/2003 - 2:07am
California Mom's picture
Joined: 07/14/2000 - 09:00

Cindy, I'm so sorry that Jesse is sick and has to miss the bowling excursion. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] Poor little guy. On the up-side: at least you don't have to spend the day with his teacher. That can't be good for your stress level! I'm sure Jesse and Ember will both enjoy your family bowling trip later on.
I also just want to make clear, in case there was any confusion, that I completely agree that the principal was trying to get you to keep Jesse home from the trip. I just found her wording interesting; it was quite clear that she knew she would be wrong to insist he not go. More warm California{{{hugs}}}, Miriam



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