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Quote:Originally posted by notnutty:
To restate:
[i]"Many districts consider the IHP to be a 504 Plan in the cases where a student needs only the health-related accommodations outlined in the IHP to access education. The IHP then, is subject to the regulations of Section 504."[/i]
I don't understand how they can state that and IHP is subject to the regulation of a 504, UNLESS it is incorporated into a 504, but standing alone it is not the same.
I wonder if what they mean is that the child has already been evaluated and found to be eligible for a 504 Designation. In that case, the passage makes sense. A child with a 504 Designation [i]could [/i]have an IHP alone that is raised to the standards that the 504 Designation requires.
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited February 02, 2006).]
Even if that is the case...it is raised to the standards of a 504...it still is not a 504 and does not have the legal weight for compliance.
I just don't think school nurses should think that IHP is enough when the allergy is life-threatning. I wonder if the same standard of care is followed with IHP as it is with 504? To me, it just seems that 504 will get more attention and more people will make sure the accommodations are followed.
My son is currently in preschool in public school. They are following an IHP...and it is a joke. Nobody seems to understand what is required to keep him safe. Right now every time an event comes up, I am calling the director to change things in order for my son to be safe. I didn't push the 504 because he is only there a few hours a week and I have been able to keep a good handle on it by just asking questions and being present on a daily basis (drop off and pick up). However in Kindergarten, I do not want to have to go into the classroom every day to find out what the plan is. I want to put more of the responsibility on the school. KWIM?
In my mind I have to make sure I understand why I believe a IHP is not enough so that when the school fights the 504 designation (which I have reason to believe they will), I can explain why I feel it is necessary.
Thanks all of you for the great replies, it has really help me sort a lot of this out in my mind.
Donna
Quote:Originally posted by Nutternomore:
[b] Don't have much time, but a quick comment. MB, you've got it backwards. 504 was created [i]prior[/i] to IDEA. The focus was different. 504 is civil rights legislation - that's why there is no funding component associated with it. It's intent was to level the playing field and provide FAPE in LRE.
IDEA, on the other hand, as you know, does provide a funding component. So, from a pragmatic perspective, sometimes a school (faced with a situation where they might either support 504 or IDEA designation), might steer parents in a particular direction (i.e. IEP w/OHI designation under IDEA) in order to utilize federal funding.
So, IMHO, sometimes, it can be all about the money...
[/b]
if 504 affords what IDEA does, then [i]why didn't they just add federal funding to 504?[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
I'll have to find the link but when I was reading comparisons between IDEA and 504, I found the word "recommendations...recommended" used quite a few times in describing requirements related to things like: "due process" and "Procedural Safeguards" in relation to 504. And many times, [i]suggesting use of[/i] Procedural Safeguards and Due Process delineations from [i]IDEA[/i]. Seems odd to me that something one created *before* IDEA would use IDEA as a [i]suggestion[/i]. Especially, if a 504 supposedly is the way to go on something. KWIM? Seems odd, that's all.
don't know about you, but I'm a little burnt from the use of the word "recommendation" in conjunction with the "Wellness Policy/Nutrition Reauthorization" thing. Are you?
"It's all about the money." (????)
Again, it's my undestanding, and I could be wrong, but if one qualified for [i]either[/i] (and by qualifying for IDEA, one supposedly *would* qualify for 504 by default) then one is [i]obligated[/i] (as I understand if school districts understand the law) to take IDEA. I suspect in part in order to prevent others from sucking up resources and the potential breakdown of the system. (While, of course, funds from State schools systems get sent back unused every year and parents complain their school doesn't have enough X,Y,Z and their school doesn't have a nurse). [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
*and* complain their school tries to use "lack of funds" as an excuse.
It's my [i]obligation[/i] to point out (teach awareness??) regarding where and when my school can get "money" from in order to accomodate my child. Especially when it's my child. Especially. So I don't jam the next guy. My cub is not the only fish in the sea. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Pacific or Atlantic.
To me, if one even *likes* the idea of a school nurse (among sooooo many other things) around when their child is in school, it indicates a burden of obligation. But I could be soooooooo wrong. and not understand.
smacks of something but I don't need to say that. I mean, is this a walking on the "paved way" issue in some instances?
And we know where I stand on the "learning affected" issue. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
No advice, I'm ranting.
BTW, Gail, again, what became of your request for "Procedural Safeguards"? Is anything nailed down? Set in stone? Has *your* school adopted anything as a "Policy"? (for 504)
I'd have to look adn see if IDEA "Procedural Safeguards" are uniform from School to school, but I *do* know that *my* school district gives me over 15+ pages each and every time we formally make a move. They are very clear. Very comprehensive. Clear. No guesswork. [i]I can do that.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Especially when I feel I'm on a winning side. Right, I mean. And "formal" is used a lot.
Quote:Originally posted by notnutty:
[b]Even if that is the case...it is raised to the standards of a 504...it still is not a 504 and does not have the legal weight for compliance.[/b]
I disagree. If a child has a Section 504 Designation and the IHP is an accommodation, the IHP holds the "legal weight for compliance".
This is exactly what I went through in the situation I posted about my DD's 504 plan being violated with the lunch study session. The violation of food in the classroom is part of the IHP, but because the IHP is an accommodation/component of DD's 504 plan, [i] it was the 504 plan that was violated[/i], and I was able to exercise my right (under 504) for the 504 Team to reconvene.
Quote:Originally posted by notnutty:
[b]I just don't think school nurses should think that IHP is enough when the allergy is life-threatning. I wonder if the same standard of care is followed with IHP as it is with 504? To me, it just seems that 504 will get more attention and more people will make sure the accommodations are followed.
My son is currently in preschool in public school. They are following an IHP...and it is a joke. Nobody seems to understand what is required to keep him safe. Right now every time an event comes up, I am calling the director to change things in order for my son to be safe. I didn't push the 504 because he is only there a few hours a week and I have been able to keep a good handle on it by just asking questions and being present on a daily basis (drop off and pick up). However in Kindergarten, I do not want to have to go into the classroom every day to find out what the plan is. I want to put more of the responsibility on the school. KWIM?[/b]
Yes I do KWYM. Completely. Our situations are nearly identical. It's a different mind-set, and a different chain of authority. You want BOTH the protection that the school RN brings to your child (nursing standards, state Nursing Practice Acts, professional critical thinking, etc) PLUS the added disability protection that the 504-C brings for your child.
It blew me away to realize that without my DD having the 504 designation from the school, she did not have the protection of LRE. Can I say that again? [i]My daughter did not have a Least Restrictive Environment without a disability designation.[/i]
Quote:Originally posted by notnutty:
[b]In my mind I have to make sure I understand why I believe a IHP is not enough so that when the school fights the 504 designation (which I have reason to believe they will), I can explain why I feel it is necessary.[/b]
I wouldn't even go down that path. I wouldn't explain. The reason you want a 504 designation for your child is because your child qualifies for it. Period.
You don't need to prove to them why the IHP isn't enough. Proving that the IHP works or doesn't work is not 'evaluation data' that the 504 Team should consider. I would argue that it is irrelevant, and that, if anything, the IHP shows that the need to make accommodations in the learning environment to ensure your child's safety has already been acknowledged by the SD with their creation of your child's IHP.
What I think would be better for you is to provide them with overwhelming 'data" and documentation that proves your child qualifies. Period. Have you seen our letter to the our 504 Team? I'll find it an link or raise.
Edited to link: [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001878.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001878.html[/url]
[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited February 02, 2006).]
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear: Again, it's my undestanding, and I could be wrong, but if one qualified for [i]either[/i] (and by qualifying for IDEA, one supposedly *would* qualify for 504 by default) then one is [i]obligated[/i] (as I understand if school districts understand the law) to take IDEA. I suspect in part in order to prevent others from [b]sucking up resources[/b]and the potential breakdown of the system. (While, of course, funds from State schools systems get sent back unused every year and parents complain their school doesn't have enough X,Y,Z and their school doesn't have a nurse). [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
bold added.
while it's my limited understand supposedly a school cannot require "federal funds" directly for 504 accommodations...(and there may be grants for compliance with 504?) There seems to be a lot of (or some) "resource sharing". Unofficially. I could be wrong. Even from "special education students" to "regular education students". Case in point: My cubs 1:1 aide is used frequently to assist his "regular education" peers. As I understand it, this should not be. But I could be wrong. I'm being careful in my assumptions. I've been following up. [i]Delicately[/i]. And you know, yes, I resent that. After all I've went through, I'm still tiptoeing. What others do (or fail to do for their own children), [i]affects me[/i].
Which brings me to aides for 504 students. What pays for them?
My child was "out of district" and in a great part due to the need for a "full time school nurse" (RN). I mean, no matter what other needs could be filled somewhere else, there was no negotiating the need for a school nurse (RN) all day, every day, each day. In his building. I'm no betting woman, but I'd venture to guess documentation on the "funding side" (if it exists) reflected this need related to his IEP/IDEA/OHI. As I understand it, and from what was actively and openly discussed in front of me at IEP meetings, there was [i]accountability[/i] for funds, dollars, etc.....juggled from *my district* to the *out of district*. Who was paying for what, when, and where. My tax dollars were *still* being used to pay for my cub. Even out of district. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
This year, by some [i]miracle[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] he was switched to a school "in district" that [i]suddenly[/i] had an RN each day, every day, all day (and now even after school for related activities my cub is involved in) as opposed to "sometimes".
Don't know who's paying for it. Don't really care. [i]I've done my part.[/i] In that regard. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
And that nurse is there for *everyone*. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Not just *my* cub. And I'm glad. [i]I'm ecstatic.[/i]
General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I could be wrong in my understandings. Individual Mileage May Vary. But I'm still ecstatic. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited February 02, 2006).]
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]BTW, Gail, again, what became of your request for "Procedural Safeguards"? Is anything nailed down? Set in stone? Has *your* school adopted anything as a "Policy"? (for 504)
[/b]
[url="http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html"]http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html[/url]
under "Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973"
what do you think of the comparison between the two: 504 and IDEA wrt: [b]Procedural Safeguards[/b] and [b]Due Process[/b]. I won't go into "Funding to Implement Requirements"
Not sure if there were any changes for IDEA Reauthorization, but I mean, 504 hasn't changed.....am I correct? All I know, is the list of things I must be notified about and explaining/delineating requirements that protect my child seems to have gotten bigger. But hey, I could be wrong.
General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. I do not guarantee the accuracy, currentness or content of the link in this post. IMMV.
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] wouldn't even go down that path. I wouldn't explain. The reason you want a 504 designation for your child is because your child qualifies for it. Period.
[/b]
This is how I feel about IDEA/OHI for *my* cub.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]BTW, Gail, again, what became of your request for "Procedural Safeguards"? Is anything nailed down? Set in stone? Has *your* school adopted anything as a "Policy"? (for 504)[/b]
Yes. Six pages. Been meaning to post them but due to the length I haven't.
Good ? MommaBear.
[b]Which brings me to aides for 504 students. What pays for them? [/b]
Any one know the answer to that ?
In light of the [b]No money in the 504 treasure chest?[/b]
------------------
Love this site
Synthia
Oh My Yes. [b]Six pages. Been meaning to post them but due to the length I haven't.[/b]
When I started I only got [b] 1 page[/b]now we are up to 3 pages....I must be missing something?
[This message has been edited by synthia (edited February 02, 2006).]
[This message has been edited by synthia (edited February 02, 2006).]
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