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Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 2:50pm
WoozerMom's picture
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Joined: 12/28/2000 - 09:00

Having worked several years in a library literacy program, I found that my Library Director, Assistant Director, and most of the staff seem to be living in a different world from me.
I was not accommodated in any way for my pa/tna, and in fact could not use the break room most of the time due to the use of nuts by the staff. I usually could not attend staff parties.
I didn't really care because I didn't really want to associate with them anyway, so I didn't make a fuss about it. I did make sure, however, that my personal office space was nut free and that any social events given by my adult literacy program were safe for me. I controlled the snacks given at other events so that was not a problem.
I do want to tell you, however, that if there is something the LD, and Asst LD are afraid of, it is an elected official or the possibility of a lawsuit or litigation.
I would, as a parent in this type of situation, insist on a nut free library and access to all children's programs for your child. People should not be eating there, and this policy should be enforced for a variety of reasons.
I would, as a parent, write a letter to the LD and Asst LD and send copies to all the members of whatever government agency funds the library. In our case, we were funded by the county, the city, and also had a library foundation. Therefore, I would have sent copies to all members of the city council, the city manager, the county board of supervisors, the county management team, and the board mmembers of the library foundation. Maybe that seems like overkill, but it will get your point across. I also could cite whatever sections of the ADA pertain to inclusiveness. In addition, I would send a copy to my attorney and be sure to list all of these cc's on the letter itself.
I have never seen such a bunch of people to run scared. The funny thing is that the regular staff members who were not librarians were much more understanding of my allergies and of the problems of the public.
Don't be afraid to call any elected official and share your concerns. Their election to office is contingent on the good will of the public.

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 9:49pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]
I would definitely point out what a hazard this will make of the [i]entire library[/i] for your child.
[/b]
On another train of thought, the [i]entire library[/i] *should* be accessible (sans the public restroom of the opposite sex) to any member of the public (barring restraining orders, pedophile/probation restrictions, etc.)
Access to the *entire* library is not the issue. Acces to *any* part of the library, one *should* have access to *is*.
But hey, I could be wrong. (Just happen to have my [i]property tax bill[/i] near the computer (I pay the taxes twice annually, online.)
My "Village of _________ [i]Public[/i] Library" cost per year is [b]$282.64[/b].
There is *no way* I'm going to be aware of *my* library pulling a stunt like that and being able to keep that money. But hey, that's selling my child [i]cheap[/i]. It's not about the 282 and change. It's about what it would costs to create another *safe* library. Giving me my money back doesn't give him [i]access[/i]. Something [i]comparable[/i]. It just gives me back my money. KWIM?
And it's not even about whether or not my child sets foot in the door of the library. Or if he's even checked out a book in the last ten years. It's all about [i]access[/i]. [b]Whether he ever sees the occassion to use it or not.[/b] It should be [i]available[/i] for him to use, freely, without hinderance, (and with the assist of my property tax dollars, of course) or as freely, as the next person. Or as the next non-disabled person.
Whether or not my child actually attends an activity is a [i]moot point[/i]. The point is, in a public library, there should be no barriers to [i]access[/i].
[b]Access[/b] is not something I have to promise to use. Or prove I will use. Or show I have used.
>>>>It's just something that [i]should be[/i].<<<<
I don't have to convince people, or prove to people, I deserve it.
Putting on my list "to do": [i]Check out library fliers for lists of summer activities.[/i] Call it a [i]mood[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] (generally happens this time of year. actually, *twice* a year.)
Folks, y'all need to pay close attention to your property tax bills. Read them. Know what you are paying for. My property taxes increased over 600 dollars (U.S.) this year.
My cubs went to the nearby new public pool recently (with a gigantic water slide and lazy river :cool [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]. Because of the township boundaries, our public [i]access[/i] is split between *two* townships. I mean, we were trying to figure out if we were considered "residents" of the *new pool*.
So I whipped out the [i]Property Tax Bill[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Brought it with. Just in case. My "Park District" assessment is $285.22 annually. But, hey.....
!!!!****GOODY GOODY GOODY****!!!! Turns out we're [i]residents[/i] of the new pool. I mean, we qualify for the discount rate *and* the extended pool hours. We may have a pool of our own, but not a [i]waterslide[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
You might wanna take a peek at how much you are assessed for [i]school districts[/i]. Annually.
my grade school district: 2974.60
my high school district: 1667.87
my community college district: 901.23
My school districts *will* be accessible for my children. Period.
Again, it's not about the money *I* pay, but rather about what they are [i]denied[/i] if it is not accessible. Giving me back my money doesn't make [i]restitution[/i]. KWIM?
Oh, and while we're at it, there is also, in addition to a myriad of other entities taking a piece out of my......is the "Forest Preserve" assessment totalling $147.34.
Not saying I'm going to have every nut bearing tree removed, [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img], but I might be rather particular about what foods are served [i]through the public kitchen[/i] (if any) at the public warming lodge near the toboggan slides this winter. Or even if food is allowed. People can eat in [i]their[/i] car, right? Outside? Or for some, is food like a [i]service dog[/i]? But hey, might not even be an issue, that is, if the county doesn't find the money to open them. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] The toboggan slides, I mean. Odd what they seem to find money for...
No advice, none whatsoever, just [i]personally[/i].
edit glaring typo, and to add a few words. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 29, 2006).]

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 10:01pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b] I have on several occasions provided DumDums to our library as a "small treat" for book clubs and other activities which is almost universally safe for FA kids-- and I always throw in a few sugar-free Jolly Ranchers as well, since I also know that diabetic kids often get left out too. The librarians like it that I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and they also like that the DumDums aren't messy.
[/b]
Speaking of convincing people, I don't even have to provide DumDums. Jolly Ranchers, whatever. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Why the [i]library[/i] is providing [i]food[/i], *gasp* [i]candy[/i] to folks is beyond me.

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 10:03pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by luvmyboys:
[b]OK I should know what IDEA is by now but I don't. Does 504 fall UNDER IDEA or vice versa? For 504 we had to qualify with the school so how does this work?
[/b]
It's my understanding if you qualify for IDEA *at school*, you also qualify for 504. IDEA is a bit tighter qualification, if I understand rightly. I may not. Either way, my cubs LTFAies and Asthma is "covered" under IDEA through "Other Health Impairment. No advice, just personally. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 10:13pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]It also helps if they get to know you well... we're in our library at least once a week and usually have about 100 items out at any one time. So "we've met." We've spent four years ingratiating ourselves in the most insidious manner possible with one of the world's cutest, most well-behaved, erudite children would be more like it, but y'know....
They wouldn't dream of doing anything that they know would limit DD's access at this point. And I know it comes up at times.
[/b]
Although I've never had 100 items checked out at any one time (maybe 100 in my lifetime??) my public library better not *dream* of limiting my cubs access either. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
I'm not going to ingratiate myself, or my children unto them either. Although it just might happen none-the-less. I mean, my cubs are *adorable*. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
But hey, if my youngest wants to wear his "H" harness, Marine cover, and canteen while clomping around in his duty boots, shouting (whispering?) orders and [i]instructing[/i] everyone he encounters to call him "Sergeant Major", they had better treat him right. KWIM? (BTW, "Sergeant Majors" don't eat "candy", they eat [i]rations[/i]. Sugar cubes. But I digress.....
This whole "ingratiate" thing [i]bothers me[/i]. I've had patients spit, curse, and puke on me. Some intentional, some accidental. KWIM? The Standard of Care does not change, although the number of restraints might......

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 10:15pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

I mean, the care I give is *the best* I can regardless of ingratiating circumstances. I couldn't sleep if it wasn't.

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 10:21pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

While in principle, MB, I absolutely agree with you...[i] no-- I applaud you[/i] (recently paid ours too.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] )
But. In practice I have found that to catch the, er, "flies" who must actually police any food policy at the library and other places I must often overlook what is strictly "correct" and focus on what is pragmatic and non-abrasive to [i]them[/i].
So rather than throw a hissy fit about all FOOD... I have offered a suitable replacement instead, [i]when asked.[/i] But I am willing to volunteer in other ways, too. And they have been great about policing food when it appears (carried in by other parents) and about removing it entirely from activities-- or checking with me before the event.
So any "ingratiating" we have done is only partially about FA... we just plain love our library. Any denial of access for us would be truly crushing. And in plain terms, that matters to the people running it. They don't take an oath to provide any particular level of care/service.
Though I have no problem being a bit more heavy-handed with the higher-ups, as Woozermom suggested. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
No problem. In fact, mentioning litigation in any communication which is CCed to anyone in city/county govt (and not affiliated directly with library operations) pretty much lights a fire under a LD.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited July 29, 2006).]

Posted on: Fri, 07/28/2006 - 11:25pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]While in principle, MB, I absolutely agree with you...[i] no-- I applaud you[/i] (recently paid ours too.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] )[/b]
my money, my mouth, my principle. All the same to me. I put them in the same place, I mean. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Have I mentioned I'm no gambling woman? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Quote:[b]So rather than throw a hissy fit about all FOOD...[/b]
I've never thrown a hissy fit. (edit to add: "about food") I've never [i]had[/i] to. Maybe it's a knack I have. Maybe I leave people wondering.
Quote:[b]But. In practice I have found that to catch the, er, "flies" who must actually police any food policy at the library and other places I must often overlook what is strictly "correct" and focus on what is pragmatic and non-abrasive to [i]them[/i].[/b]
Quote:[b] I have offered a suitable replacement instead, [i]when asked.[/i] But I am willing to volunteer in other ways, too. And they have been great about policing food when it appears (carried in by other parents) and about removing it entirely from activities-- or checking with me before the event.[/b]
Quote:[b]So any "ingratiating" we have done is only partially about FA... we just plain love our library. Any denial of access for us would be truly crushing. And in plain terms, that matters to the people running it. They don't take an oath to provide any particular level of care/service. [/b]
[i]Neither do I.[/i]
But I am licensed. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] I had a "pinning" ceremony at graduation, (ah, they just passed them out, gave us each one, and we were expected to pin them on the person next to us....blah blah blah) but no oath I can remember..........
Quote:[b]Though I have no problem being a bit more heavy-handed with the higher-ups, as Woozermom suggested. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
No problem. In fact, mentioning litigation in any communication which is CCed to anyone in city/county govt (and not affiliated directly with library operations) pretty much lights a fire under a LD.
[/b]
It's no surprise to me that people don't [i]do their job[/i], the right thing, whatever, If I don't expect them to do it without ingratiating myself, accidental or otherwise. And act like it.
Before I light fires (metaphorically speaking here and hereafter), I give them the opportunity. I follow the chain of command. I've found people respect that. I mean, being given the opportunity before I light any "fires". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
And I'll have respect before ingratiated debtedness anyday. (ick. splutter. ptooey.) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Now that you know I don't take an "oath", would you *still* expect no less from let's say.......a nurse caring for your child? If I don't take an "oath", does that mean it's "ok" for someone to have to ingratiate themselves unto me in order to receive my [i]best[/i] care? If it is, would that mean those who don't are as deserving? That it's ok to give just what is required or God forbid, [i]less[/i]?
That said, *I* suspect it's probably more likely librarians rather than nurses, take an oath. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
edit cuz I chopped out the first half of the response when quoting....
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 29, 2006).]

Posted on: Sat, 07/29/2006 - 12:12am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

honestly? and from what I've encountered only? [i]Higher ups are higher ups[/i] because they don't [i]need[/i] any "fires" lit under them. Generally speaking. They know the *rules*. Unfortunately, they are not always the best at monitoring what the "lower downs" are doing, until it is brought to their attention. (This said speaking as a "lower down". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])

Posted on: Sat, 07/29/2006 - 7:33am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] [i]Higher ups are higher ups[/i] because they don't [i]need[/i] any "fires" lit under them.[/b]
ROFLMAO!!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img] You are serious. I can tell. Oh my. You have [i]clearly[/i] never worked in academia or government. Higher-ups there tend to be persons who loathe doing any "real" work and therefore aspire to push paper and people around. Most of their colleagues are happy to see them go if only because now they don't end up doing the person's work as well as their own.
[b] Quote:
They know the *rules*. Unfortunately, they are not always the best at monitoring what the "lower downs" are doing, until it is brought to their attention. (This said speaking as a "lower down". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])[/b]
Again-- not in my experience. Remember those happy people above? Well, only until they realize what their former co-workers are now up to... These people tend to be excellent at "monitoring" those working for them, true... sometimes, er, to a fault, shall we say. Ever read Dilbert?
Knowing the rules (as you say) is a good thing. Making up unwritten ones as you go? Priceless. (And common. Ohhhhhh yes.)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
So- our librarians basically follow "the rules" including the unwritten ones that come from on high. So if I want the problem to be tackled, I have to properly motivate "on high" to have different unwritten rules and at the same time, be sufficiently non-abrasive to the librarians so that they will follow them... rather than have them become obstinate and deliberately obtuse because I've become a notorious PITA to them all.
I would rather that all the library staff did not attempt to elude me when I show up at the library. Or worse still, have them avoid any parent who mentions FA in the future.
But like I said-- this is absolutely not theoretical for us. If I never worried about visiting the library again, I wouldn't care about establishing a relationship with anyone working there, now would I?
We have to be practical rather than "right." Maybe it is a small town thing, but you really do catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
( As long as you know where to find the vinegar if you need it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] )
Besides-- the point of the thread wasn't what the library director and staff [i]should[/i] want to do correctly. It was about what the OP should do because they were already doing something awful. Libraries aren't governed by any particular "standards" BTW. So you can't assume that a library even HAS a particular rule. About food or anything else.
Edited to add... 'indebtedness' goes BOTH ways in a small town. It is political. But it is the currency of life in places like this. So you are "nice" unless you don't have another choice. And if you think I don't ask for things I *need* from our library out of a sense that I owe them.... well, you don't know me!
But I don't [i]demand[/i] or start telling them how to do their jobs [i]correctly[/i] because that is just rude. I [i]ask[/i]. Respectfully and politely. For what I know or suspect is possible. Because I [i]do[/i] assume that most people will want to do their jobs well.
You see, I have found that I get more genuine respect and cooperation from people when they don't think I am telling them what to do or how to do it. Just good manners. And who isn't more willing to go a little above and beyond the rules for someone they [i]like?[/i] That is simple human nature, like it or not. And it includes doctors, nurses and everyone else. FA means we are often working in areas where there are no written rules. So [i]I[/i] want to be the one on the recieving end of the benefit of the doubt.
Call it disgusting "ingratiation" if you like, but I think this is just an inherent understanding of what makes most people tick. I'm certainly willing to "stoop" to use it to my advantage (or more critically, to that of my daughter). There is nothing wrong with being likable or cooperative.
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited July 29, 2006).]

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