I had a meeting last week with the principal. We chatted openly and at one point he carefully expressed his concern about what it would mean for his school if indeed they learn they must comply with and evaluate my DD for a 504. (keep in mind this school is a religious private school getting federal financial assistance from the USDA for the hot lunch program). He goes on to say that the public school cannot pick and choose who they want in their school, but a private school can. And he'd not want to get to a point of having to do that because that's not where his heart it. !!!insert wailing sirens!!! Now, I'm sure I didn't get the exact words, but you get the gist. I was too shocked to tell him what a really thought...a trait I [i]need[/i] to get over. Maybe I should have screamed, "IF YOU ACCEPT FEDERAL FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FROM THE GOVERMENT, THEN YOU CANNOT PICK AND CHOOSE WHO YOU WANT IN YOUR SCHOOL BASED ON DISABILITY! IF YOU WANT TO PICK AND CHOOSE, BE COMPLETELY PRIVATE!" Ugh. I think he truly does not understand the connection between accepting aid from the government and the strings that are then attached to your school. The USDA 504 implementing law obviously lays out the fact that if you receive money from them, you can't deny.....blah blah.....
I have done so much to try to educate him on 504, show him how although they are a private school, they take fed money for the lunch program, shown them the law, [i]gave[/i] them copies of everything I had, showed him the newest 'yes they must comply' email from the Regional Director of the Civil Rights division for the USDA's
Midwest Region...to which he smiled and said it was a buereaucratic (sp?) answer, that one could call another individual and get an entirely different answer. I am STILL waiting for him to officially say 'no we will not evaluate' DD, and at the meeting I asked him to put that in writing so I can take it to the USDA and then the USDA can look into this. He said no, he didn't want to have parents dealing with that. Even if I don't have it in writing, I can still file a complaint. (I didn't mention the 'complaint' word with him, at least not yet). He is calling a public school principal (hopefully soon) for advice on whether or not they have to comply. I asked him outright what his lawyer said, and district rep said, apparently both had no idea. So I am STILL stuck in waiting mode, while he attempts to talk to yet another person. We have a meeting again next month, but I can see where it will just be another attempt to drop this 504 thing and try to create a really good non 504 plan. I do however, still believe that he wants to create a safe environment for my DD. He just doesn't want to go down the 504 road with it.
I keep waiting for him to satisfy himself by asking all of these people, but all of these people keep telling him that they are unsure of how or if 504 applies to them. I don't know what else to tell him, but I don't want to wait much longer. I thought about asking *him* to call the USDA for clarification. I also want to email the USDA myself, again, asking for advice, but I don't think they will offer much more than 'file a complaint'. I just don't know if discrimination has officially yet begun...I mean how long can you "not evaluate" without "officially" saying you will not evaluate. Ugh..
Weary. Thanks for listening to my rambling. Any technical advice is surely welcome.
Edited to add that Nuttermore had previously offered a suggestion about including these things in a pre-complaint sort of letter to the school to hurry them up a bit:
[i](1)you have attempted to collaborate with them, but the fact remains that there is lack of resolution, and the school year has nearly ended
(2) As below correspondence indicates, the official position of USDA OCR is that they are obligated to comply with the law
(3) You wish to continue to collaborate to move the process forward. However, if they fail to move forward (you define the specifics here), then you will have no option but to explore all alternatives available to you, including the possible filing of a discrimination complaint with the Office of Civil Rights.
You can close with a requested response within a specified timeframe so that the ultimate conclusion is that a plan is in place prior to the start of the school year.[/i]
[This message has been edited by lilpig99 (edited July 03, 2007).]
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]He goes on to say that the public school cannot pick and choose who they want in their school, but a private school can. [/b]
on what basis? a disability? [i]I'd like to see that in writing.[/i] No advice, but I'd avoid informal conversations where little to nothing is [i]documented[/i]. Or at least I'd send certified mail a letter of understanding confirming the exchanges during these conversations. I'd end them with the obvious need for confirmation of your take on events or further clarification. But again, I'd avoid these informal, non documented meetings. No advice, just personally. When you don't allow people to play with you, they have no choice but to play with themselves.
Absolutely.
Is there any chance that this 'reluctance' is about a [i]de facto[/i] method of 'picking' and 'choosing?'
We've had this happen to us a few times with classes and workshops-- where technically they had to be compliant, all right, but they don't have to [i]make extra room in the program for a disability...[/i] So they stall and dodge and hem n' haw until they fill up. Then they don't have to deal with you. As a bonus, if they [i]don't[/i] fill, they've left so little time that you have probably made other arrangements in the meantime-- or they can tell you (honestly) that some accommodations are [i]impossible to implement in the short planning time remaining....[/i]
Hope I'm wrong there. But my experience suggests it is more than possible.
Begin writing letters and letting your answering machine do the talking for you. Truly.
I so agree with the two above posts. I would love for my son to receive a religious education on an everyday basis, but I just don't want to have to deal with all the red tape. A public school can be difficult enough!!!
I hope things start going more smoothly for you. But if they don't, it sounds like you know the next action to take.
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b] He goes on to say that the public school cannot pick and choose who they want in their school, but a private school can. And he'd not want to get to a point of having to do that because that's not where his heart it. !!!insert wailing sirens!!! [/b]
Just my read on this: game playing man using this ploy/threat in effort to get you to back down on 504 designation due to your fear that your child will not be "allowed" to attend his school.
Do you want to call his bluff? You know what is in your hand -- you KNOW he cannot legally discriminate so long as the school receives USgov funds. BUT, once he finally "gets" that, his school can always go fully private & thus he has the final high card.
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]
I have done so much to try to educate him on 504, show him how although they are a private school, they take fed money for the lunch program, shown them the law, [i]gave[/i] them copies of everything I had, showed him the newest 'yes they must comply' email from the Regional Director of the Civil Rights division for the USDA's
Midwest Region...to which he smiled and said it was a buereaucratic (sp?) answer, that one could call another individual and get an entirely different answer. [/b]
Invite him to call USDA himself and compare answers. Perhaps have the call done in conference with you. Put it on speaker phone if that will make it easier for him to get it.
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]
He is calling a public school principal (hopefully soon) for advice on whether or not they have to comply. I asked him outright what his lawyer said, and district rep said, apparently both had no idea. [/b]
This is laughable. He is calling to get advice from a public school principal as to compliance requirements for his private school? He thinks this answer will be "the one" he needs?!! If his school's lawyer "had no idea" as to compliance, his lawyer is worthless.
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]
So I am STILL stuck in waiting mode, while he attempts to talk to yet another person.[/b]
NOPE. I think I would press the issue and insist -- officially -- on the meeting within your needed (shortened) time frame. CYA and do everything in writing as others have suggested.
Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]
Nuttermore had previously offered a suggestion about including these things in a pre-complaint sort of letter to the school to hurry them up a bit.
[/b]
I would seriously consider this as part of calling his bluff or further "educating" him, however you choose to view it.
You must also ask yourself if you are willing to drop your 504 request & "just" go with a written "safety plan" in order to have child at this school, yet not have the formal designation.
Do you have back up school alternative if this does not go your way?
Sorry this has been such an aggravation. You really have done a great job of pushing for the 504. But you have to deal with the persona/intellect(?) that is this principal & that has proved quite a challenge.
Speaking for myself, I want you to know that I would NEVER think less of you if you ultimately did feel that it is in the best interests of your child & family to back down on the 504 designation. Each and every situation is different. You have to do what is right for you.
All just my own opinion.
Regardless, you still own the private school 504 battle tiara, in my book. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
~Elizabeth
Thank you. All of you. I feel I have a few different avenues to travel right now, none of them get me far until the school says 'no'. Surprisingly though, I don't feel as if I want to quit, at least yet. I'm feeling pretty confident with my case, if you will. And I keep telling myself that I am not asking for anything that this school isn't [i]already[/i] required to be doing. Truly.
[b]No advice, but I'd avoid informal conversations where little to nothing is documented.[/b]
I agree MB. It was very enlightening to see into his mind the other day. I actually encouraged him to tell me what he thinks...we are acquaintences. And sometimes I think it would almost be easier if we weren't. Certified mail?? Interesting, you know when you start asking yourself, if I send this letter, what would happen if they claim they never got it, I mean, I have really asked myself that. Telling, I suppose. It doesn't get more documented then certified mail, does it? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img].
[b]Is there any chance that this 'reluctance' is about a de facto method of 'picking' and 'choosing?'[/b]
Thanks CM. Actually, I have already paid the school for next year. Already have a teacher assigned for DD. They can't un-enroll her now. Good thing is that as the grade level increases, the classes are smaller and some are not filled entirely. I've got a first draft of my letter done. I did it just after posting this topic. Sometimes you just need to see it all laid out to realize what you're dealing with, kinda helps one to decide what to do next.
[b]I hope things start going more smoothly for you. But if they don't, it sounds like you know the next action to take.[/b]
Thanks mistey. I so appreciate the support and advice. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[b]Just my read on this: game playing man using this ploy/threat in effort to get you to back down on 504 designation due to your fear that your child will not be "allowed" to attend his school.[/b]
You know, when I returned from the meeting and told my DH about this, he couldn't believe it. I was so trying to tell myself that he didn't mean what he said. Ya, it was a veiled threat.
[b]Do you want to call his bluff? You know what is in your hand -- you KNOW he cannot legally discriminate so long as the school receives USgov funds. BUT, once he finally "gets" that, his school can always go fully private & thus he has the final high card.[/b]
This is an excellent question Elizabeth. I have asked myself this from the start, really. I honestly think that they would consider doing that. Really. And you know what, I would almost say that is fine. [i]*That*[/i] I can understand and deal with. What bothers me is them trying so hard to have their cake and eat it too. *That* I don't agree with, and all in all, its illegal. But you're right, all they would have to do is go private entirely. Their call, not mine. We'll see though...
My current thought is that if it doesn't go my way, I will have DD attend there still. That may be hard for some to understand. At least this is my current thought.
And thanks for letting me keep my battle tiara, no matter what [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img].
I'd like a letter to the school to be a letter of understanding as well as a call to action...a call to have them tell me 'Yes we will', or 'No we won't' evaluate DD. As MB suggested, it could go certified mail.
On the other hand, I have considered [i]emailing[/i] them, with a very quiet request to say yes or no, without getting so formal. I wonder if by doing that, they will be more likely to just come out and say whether or not they'll evaluate her. But at least I have their response 'on paper'.
OR...I could ask for a ' yes or no' again, at our more formal meeting and ask them to put it in writing on the spot. A requst which was just denied in my informal chat. Hey......maybe I could plop a big ol' tape recoder on the table and ask them so they wouldn't have to write it down. (Snicker snicker) Maybe I should come prepared this time.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
I'm just trying to determine which way would best serve my situation and provide a documented answer in the quickest fashion.
If I could beg your thoughts on this. And again, thanks everyone. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
The Des Moines diocese Catholic schools were also not accommodating food allergies about 3 years ago.
I pressured them to make changes until I was invited to a quarterly meeting of the school principals.
They also had invited an allergist to talk to them before me.
After we both talked, they realized that they MUST accommodate food allergies.
Pope John Paul II was alive at that time and I gently reminded them that he suffered from a disability and still was able to lead the Catholic Church.
They all looked a little surprised when I said this but it was a good analogy.
If a private school receives one penny from the federal govt. for anything, they are required to adhere to Section 504 of the Handicapped Act of 1973.
If this is a Catholic school, there should be a diocese educational coordinator.
If it is another religion, go over his head.
Quote:Originally posted by cathlina:
[b]The Des Moines diocese Catholic schools were also not accommodating food allergies about 3 years ago.
I pressured them to make changes until I was invited to a quarterly meeting of the school principals.
They also had invited an allergist to talk to them before me.
After we both talked, they realized that they MUST accommodate food allergies.
Pope John Paul II was alive at that time and I gently reminded them that he suffered from a disability and still was able to lead the Catholic Church.
They all looked a little surprised when I said this but it was a good analogy.
If a private school receives one penny from the federal govt. for anything, they are required to adhere to Section 504 of the Handicapped Act of 1973.
If this is a Catholic school, there should be a diocese educational coordinator.
If it is another religion, go over his head.[/b]
Did you formally request a 504 evaluation for your child? Did they have procedures in place but were not using them for your situation? Did they changes they made include coming into compliance with 504's? Did they have to 'create' procedures for evaluations, notifications of rights to parents? Did they also participate in the National School Lunch Program or take any money from the Dept of ED? Just curious what the school [i]needed[/i] to do for your situation based on their funding and applicable law. This is very intriguing to me...private schools and all! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I like the take on Pope John Paul II's disability. How very true indeed. This is a Lutheran School. As of now, I haven't gone over his head, but the principal himself asked his district administrator...apparently he didn't know anything, or offer anything. Figures.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I was helping another parent of a peanut allergic child that wanted to attend a Catholic elementary. The principal, too, had said they couldn't make the school peanut free and was basically blowing off the parent.
(I am a PA adult)
I called the diocese education officer and talked to her first, exchanged e-mails and sent samples of other Catholic schools that were peanut free.
Catholic Schools not only get fed dollars for the school lunch program, they get a book subsidy and also transportation funds. (I believe this would be true of any religious private school.)
Didn't Jesus accept those with disabilities in the Bible i.e. lepers, etc...as another example.
They become more receptive when I mentioned Pope John Paul II. Guess he was working miracles even before he died.
Or maybe turn the tables....."Wow, I sure hope your school doesn't LOOSE it's federal funding for denying a child with a disability an education."
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