Is this Xolair, or something new?

Posted on: Sat, 11/13/2004 - 10:10pm
Lori Jo's picture
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My BIL, while surfing the web at his base in Iraq, found this and forwarded it to us. It's nice to know in the middle of what he's doing he's thing of our DD.
It talks about a PA/food allergy treatment made with Listeria proteins. Anyone know if this is the same old stuff, or something new on the horizon?
[url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138460,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138460,00.html[/url]

------------------
Lori Jo,

Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99

Posted on: Sat, 11/13/2004 - 11:51pm
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Listeria is a bacteria. But the study also says they inject in the person the food he is allergic to. Our allergist feels very strongly that desensitization for food allergies (as opposed to mold, dust, etc) is very risky. When we were there last week, he told us about a death from anaphylaxis during desentization. I think Xolair seems much more grounded and scientifically based than injecting peanuts and a killed bacteria into a person who can die from eating peanuts.

Posted on: Mon, 11/15/2004 - 1:36am
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Agreed, especially since the dogs in the study are all GI allergies, and not anaphylactic. Nice to know someone is still working on options though.

Posted on: Tue, 11/16/2004 - 1:54am
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I wouldn't be so quick to write this off. The co-injection of a heat-killed organism that can induce a strong immune response is a well known way to induce an immune response to the other protein (aka peanut for example). The key is to change the immune recognition of the peanut protein frm one that results in the production of IgE (and therefore a risk for anaphyplaxis) to one that induces a diferenc class of iummunoglobulin, or even better, to induce "tolerance".
The fact that the dogs' allergies were "only GI" is irrelevant. These dogs [b]are[/b] anaphylactic to the foods against which they were being tested. The main finding is that they were able to create immune tolerance to the offending food. This is the pot and the end of the rainbow for allergists treating food allergic individuals. If this can be translated to human use, the traffic on this bulletin board would decrease substantially.
I called and spoke to the authors of this study, and am very impressed with the work they are doing. There is hope on the way,. and its not just from Xolair. There are many innovative scientists looking at ways to "switch" the immune response from a maladaptive IgE response, to a more tolerant type of immune response.
[This message has been edited by darenberg (edited November 16, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by darenberg (edited November 16, 2004).]

Posted on: Tue, 11/16/2004 - 5:24am
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Thanks Darenburg! I love it when I can get a little hope now and then, and I like the sounds of this!!!!
Melissa

Posted on: Tue, 11/16/2004 - 6:43am
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Quote:Originally posted by melissa:
[b]Thanks Darenburg! I love it when I can get a little hope now and then, and I like the sounds of this!!!!
Melissa[/b]
No problem, now if I could just learn to tyep...doh...type.

Posted on: Fri, 11/19/2004 - 1:01pm
Lori Jo's picture
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Darren,
Thanks for the response. I should have said at the beginning that I am a physician, and was hoping that someone had more scientific information than what I could find with a quick search. I somehow figured someone on this site had to know something. I am happy at any research that gives me hope my daughter will be safer one day. I'm not sure what is special about Listeria sp., except that many of the bacteria in that group (gram negative rods) can induce significant immune system responses (not neccessarily "allergic" responses though.) I did wonder how they got/found dogs that where allergic to peanuts. Genetically modified? Sensitized with "mega" allergens? Anyways, thanks for giving me a bit more information.
------------------
Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99

Posted on: Fri, 11/19/2004 - 1:13pm
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I`m a physician too. Many of the immunizations are produced using a part of a killed bacteria. But when you immunize you are trying to induce an immune response, and you don`t pair the killed bacteria up with something the person is anaphylactic to. To the contrary, certain immunizations are absolutely contraindicated if the person is allergic to any of the components. That is why MMR, varivax, and flu vaccine are contraindicated if the person is anaphylactic to egg. I don`t think there is anything wrong with using killed Leisteria. But injecting peanut protein into someone who is anaphylactic to peanut is considered by most allergists to be really risky, and can cause death. I think this one is a long long long way from ever being safe---meaning in some people it may work great by getting a good IgG response instead of IgE, but in the ones who don`t get a good IgG response it will likely cause anaphylaxis. Too risky in my opinion. Mainstream allergists are pretty much in agreement that desensitization for food allergies (as opposed to dust, mite, mold, etc) is high risk for causing anaphylaxis.
[This message has been edited by Carefulmom (edited November 19, 2004).]

Posted on: Sat, 11/20/2004 - 3:50am
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Quote:Originally posted by Carefulmom:
[b]I`m a physician too. Many of the immunizations are produced using a part of a killed bacteria. But when you immunize you are trying to induce an immune response, and you don`t pair the killed bacteria up with something the person is anaphylactic to. To the contrary, certain immunizations are absolutely contraindicated if the person is allergic to any of the components. That is why MMR, varivax, and flu vaccine are contraindicated if the person is anaphylactic to egg. I don`t think there is anything wrong with using killed Leisteria. But injecting peanut protein into someone who is anaphylactic to peanut is considered by most allergists to be really risky, and can cause death. I think this one is a long long long way from ever being safe---meaning in some people it may work great by getting a good IgG response instead of IgE, but in the ones who don`t get a good IgG response it will likely cause anaphylaxis. Too risky in my opinion. Mainstream allergists are pretty much in agreement that desensitization for food allergies (as opposed to dust, mite, mold, etc) is high risk for causing anaphylaxis.
[This message has been edited by Carefulmom (edited November 19, 2004).][/b]
CarefulMom & Lori Jo, I agree with much of what you say, but I do see that these dogs were sensitized to peanut protein experimentally, and they had full blown anaphylactic reactions. In other words, this is a very valid model. It had already been publised in mice, by Hugh Sampson's group, and the immunization protocol involves heat killed Listeria. Here is the link to the abstract...
[url="http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.1398-9995.2004.00711.x/abs/"]http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.1398-9995.2004.00711.x/abs/[/url]
The future of immunotherapy, in my opinion, involves an anti-IgE based treatment short term (Xolair) while this sort of immunization is used to switch the immunity from IgE to IgG. My research is in the tumor immunology field and I really think this will work.
[This message has been edited by darenberg (edited November 20, 2004).]

Posted on: Sat, 11/20/2004 - 3:54am
darenberg's picture
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Joined: 01/24/2004 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Lori Jo:
[b]D I'm not sure what is special about Listeria sp., except that many of the bacteria in that group (gram negative rods) can induce significant immune system responses (not neccessarily "allergic" responses though.) I did wonder how they got/found dogs that where allergic to peanuts. Genetically modified? Sensitized with "mega" allergens? Anyways, thanks for giving me a bit more information.
[/b]
As a physician, you have heard of Th1 and Th2 polarized immune responses, well the Listeria cell wall is a VERY potent inducer of a Th1 polarized response, which forms the basis for the rationale for this approach.

Posted on: Sun, 11/21/2004 - 10:49am
Lori Jo's picture
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Joined: 09/17/2003 - 09:00

Great discussion! I'm going to have to get my basic science books out and brush up on immunology. While I'm not ready to sign my dd up for a trial today, I am still happy researchers are pursuing several avenues. So many ideas in science that were at one time considered improbable at best and ludricrous at worst are now accepted as obvious and commonplace. Only time will tell.
------------------
Lori Jo,
Rose, 7-31-02, PA
Beatrice & Georgia, 8-14-99

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