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Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 12:43pm
PinkPoodle's picture
Joined: 06/12/2007 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b][b]They speak of discrimination occurring only when a substitution is not offered. The whole school is not required to be offered the same lunch. This might viewed as being legally acceptable for the classroom as well.[/b]
You know though, this could be an interesting legal point. I'm going to have to go back through the booklet that goes with the USDA form for meal accommodations to review the language.
Point is, if the school spends enough time to find a safe substitution at other times, why not just dispense the safe substitution for all?
This is an interesting avenue because in the lunch example (USDA) the SCHOOL is required to provide the substitution. They couldn't possibly provide a substitution cupcake for MFA children without it being certified as: MFA-free. Have they ever seen the price of cupcakes from Divvies [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]? We (PARENTS) are the ones providing the substitutions---and yes, I know we are not talking about LUNCH, but if the SCHOOL is sanctioning this activity of cupcakes galore during class hours (not us parents---I would definitely prefer a non-food celebration room & my guess is most of us here prefer that), then the SCHOOL should be obligated to provide the alternative.
I do not allow DD to eat any food at school other than what I provide. However, if the school was obligated to provide, let's say Divvies, then I would just double-check that it was Divvies, and let her have it. Instead, I am either baking from scratch, freezing, thawing, frosting, packing, etc...or ordering from treats that are egg-free, peanut-free, and tree nut-free. It is quite an expense...
Just a thought.
Now, I have more to post about DD and her exclusions in school this past year...I'll start another

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 12:49pm
PinkPoodle's picture
Joined: 06/12/2007 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by McCobbre:
Second of all, I don't know why other mothers wouldn't be hugging me since I'm taking away some baking burdens.
Because they think they are earning gold stars, angel wings, brownie points...whatever..to bring in some fabulous looking baked good. These are the Cupcake Queens.
I guess it is a foreign concept to those of us who HAVE to bake for our child's safety. It gets a bit routine [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
I did teach myself how to decorate cakes, cupcakes, cookies quite well...love when I am asked where I bought DD's birthday cake at her home parties. Not school---oh, please. Her bday is in the summer, but they can't let that pass---they said all summer birthday would celebrate their 1/2 birthdays. The teacher's idea of "half" was at her 7 month mark--not 6 month--hubby and I had a chuckle.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 1:09pm
PinkPoodle's picture
Joined: 06/12/2007 - 09:00

In regards to DD being left out with the aid's celebration of her own ADULT birthday--this wasn't another parent; it was the school staff. I did speak to the teacher about it and she apologized FOR THE AID. No responsibility on her part--the one who's signature was on the 504. And I was given the robotic response of "Your daughter appeared fine".
Yes, she appears better than fine. I'll even say she has more self-control than most of her peers. I am always amazed at how she conducts herself---but actually sacrifices herself. I wish she was the type of kid who would throw a tantrum, yell, cry..react in some way to let the adults have it thrown in their faces that they all stupidly overlooked how hurt 2 children's feelings were (she and another child with food allergies who didn't even tell the parent)--trust me, our kids learn to not rock the boat, not draw attention to themselves, particularly in regard to food issues.
These people DO NOT CARE or DO NOT BELIEVE there is emotional damage by what they do or not do for our children. It isn't exclusive to peanut allergies. Pick any disability and go to a similar support board and the same discussions are happening over there.
I am thoroughly disgusted with the behavior shown by staff at my DD's school last year. We have a new principal, new teacher, and a new nurse. I hope for better. I expect better. I will demand better. My mind set is a lot like yours gvmom. We tried our best to not argue every violation last year--let some things go. Not this year.
Perhaps we can get a group rate with our tshirts (Mouser, gvmom, and me).
[This message has been edited by PinkPoodle (edited August 13, 2007).]

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 1:32pm
McCobbre's picture
Joined: 04/16/2005 - 09:00

Speaking of singing songs, gvmom, was it your kiddo who had to sing the hymn "Now Thank We All Our God?" or was it "Come Ye Thankful People Come" at school at Thanksgiving?
Teaching history to some, religious exclusion to others. Yes--it happens.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 2:22pm
gvmom's picture
Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]gvmom, was it your kiddo who had to sing the hymn[/b]
It was "We Gather Together". And yet another cause to be looked at like a 6-eyed monster when I asked about more information about this hymn. You know, cause my son was supposed to be singing something religious in a public school. Freak that I am, interested in the actual curriculum and if they are breaching a church/state thing.
[b]I hope for better. I expect better. I will demand better. My mind set is a lot like yours gvmom. We tried our best to not argue every violation last year--let some things go. Not this year.[/b]
I hope things go better for you too.
I think we all should expect better.
I think we all should demand better.
We documented every violation, with a smile, and with understanding. Make sure you do too.
This year, I'm done being nice though. I am frayed. I am tired. And I'm done with this rolling over and being a quiet, don't make waves, thing.
We have reached a line. We have certain things that we are waiting on. School is two weeks away too.
This is the time that PETA or ActUp should recruit me......*raising arm in defiance* *letting out a barbaric "yeah"*
[b]These people DO NOT CARE or DO NOT BELIEVE there is emotional damage by what they do or not do for our children. It isn't exclusive to peanut allergies. Pick any disability and go to a similar support board and the same discussions are happening over there.[/b]
And I almost say, let it be at their peril. If they don't care, make them... if only to save their jobs. Whoever it is. To ignore the rights of those with disabilities is obnoxious, and those that do so shouldn't find themselves in fields that deal with children at the very least. The right to accommodations is protected by the federal government. Letting schools get the best of us because we let them get away with it shouldn't be acceptable to any of us anymore.
And really, there is a line that I draw as far as how far we would take things with the school..... the cost to our children that we don't think makes it worth it... but I'll tell you, we aren't going down without a bit of a fight.
[b]Because they think they are earning gold stars, angel wings, brownie points...whatever..to bring in some fabulous looking baked good. These are the Cupcake Queens.[/b]
Loved this btw. *snicker* *snicker*
Oh, and also, I do realize I'm working backwards through some posts. Sorry. I'm crazed right now.
[b]With regard to the teachers having to care (I think that's basically what you are hoping for, right--because if they actively try to include it means they must care for our children, right?)--I don't know that this can be fostered in this way.[/b]
What I'm hoping for is that first I can appeal to their humanity. Appeal to the fact that they would say that they would care. Next, if that failed, I would appeal to their sense of not being revealed as a hypocrite along with a violation write-up. Last, I would write a violation write up, followed possibly by the notification of my intent to file an OCR complaint. Finally, filing a complaint. (this of course presupposes that an OCR complaint hasn't been filed yet)
[b]I think folks are used to seeing FA kids getting the short end of the stick and assume that they're used to it, that it doesn't bother them. It's just one more let down, right?[/b]
I don't think people are used to seeing it. I think they are used to seeing parents making it okay. They are used to seeing parents gloss over the fact that their child is being left out. They are used to hearing, "oh, well, that's okay... we'll just have this safe little thing over here... no worries.." as we turn away, smile disappearing off our faces, stomach turning, and sinking feeling in our hearts. That is what they are used to.
Maybe they should hear, "Can I see the list of ingredients and allergen warnings please?" "I'm sure you didn't purposely set out to exclude my child.... did you receive that notice that we sent home to the parents about his FA's? I know it had all of our contact information on it so people could ask us questions." "Oh, well, I'm sorry you'll have to take these cupcakes home after you went to all that trouble, maybe next time you can call me and I'll give you some ideas for safe things that the entire class can eat... including my child." "BTW, did your child like the goody bag I sent for my son's birthday? The kids didn't even miss the food they had so much fun with that stuff." "TA-TA Muffy, Biffy, Taffy, and HEATHER".
Okay, okay... fantasy. But it could happen! And remember, eventually Winona does get the red bow!
[b]But I don't know that a teacher is going to care about exclusion to that extent. And if a teacher isn't already moved by this allergy, seeing my child go without won't move them (it happened this year and no one batted an eye).
But I'll be very interested to be proved wrong. You'll keep us posted about this, won't you?[/b]
I can try though. They might not care from their heart. But how many OCR complaints do they want? Do they want an examination of their implementation of "Standard of Care" laws..... if I ever figure out what body deals with that?
If the USDA has reign over food dispensed in the school.....if I ever figure anything out on that end.... do they want a complaint being investigated by the USDA?
And, really, I'm not big on proving people wrong.... you know, like I have some thing I want to prove to people.... but in this instance I do hope that I can prove you wrong in the sense that we end up having some better results this year, even including using my proposed idea as part of it all.
Hopefully, you won't have to encounter such stuff as all this in your new place!

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 3:21pm
Peanut Militia's picture
Joined: 03/06/2007 - 09:00

Last year when we were getting DD IEP I started reading about the psychological aspect of PA. Basically, we were freaked! It is hard enough to raise a daughter (or son)to be self confident, feel like they 'fit in,' be a leader, and all the other personality traits that makes them feel on top of the world. Add to that struggle a built in identifier to 'keep your child safe' that puts them at seperate tables, gives them seperate treats, makes them the reason the class can't go on certain field trips, make certain crafts...... and we wonder why our kids have food anxiety? are hesitant to make new friends? Hate new situations?... I just don't understand why it is O.K. to openly discriminate against our kids.
When the psychologist did our evaluation he saw the potential for a bright, carefree, social child to develop psychological issues from other people's reaction to her PA. He specificaly listed 'seperate tables and other acts that singled out' our daughter as detrimental to her long term mental health. When I read it I wanted to say "duh," but I understood that it needed to be put in because of things I had read on PA.com. Sometimes I think administrators just don't think. They see an easy answer and don't look at what they are doing to an individual child for what? Do they forget it is just Peanuts? Add to that Cupcake Queens who choose to not get the 'life or death' part of our situation but want to 'show off' their momminess...... and our kids are sunk if the school chooses not to uphold their 504 or IEP.
I agree that we should-as it is safe- give our children every chance to feel like any other kid at school.
Sorry for the rant. I just wish people could see how NORMAL life without peanuts can be.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 3:39pm
anonymous's picture
Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]I can try though. They might not care from their heart. But how many OCR complaints do they want? Do they want an examination of their implementation of "Standard of Care" laws..... if I ever figure out what body deals with that?
okay, so don't hold me to this, it's just off the cuff and not really official. It's just an impression.
Standard of Care is generally a term applied in the healthcare field. And let me tell you, most of the time, there's no one specific absolute way to handle each instance. It revolves more around what another similiarly trained, prepared, reasonable, and prudent professional would do in the same situation and a combination of supportable options to form a path. It's where the educational background and experience comes in.
There's not always *only* one course of action, one just better be able to justify their actions with documentable support. [i]Evidence Based[/i]. People are individuals and of course, sometimes, medical history figures into determining the *best* course of action. Sometimes, there are not a lot of choices, and the ones there are aren't too thrilling, either.
A standard of care is generally arrived at through the collaberation of many diciplines. They are not always something you will find in a book chained to the entrance of an institution entitled: "Our Standards of Care." (Although you might find "Standard Operating Procedures" somewhere in the administrative offices---or "Policy and Procedures" in certain institutions.)
This 2004 article mentions "intensive glucose managment" as becomming the "standard of care" in the icu. Well, guess what? It has. For a while now. And as the article indicated, a [i]protocol[/i] was developed. To *me* many times, a Standard of Care is best described as something that involves lots of little subplots, policies, protocols, SOP's and evidence based practice to create effective [i]management[/i]. But sure, you just might find some smaller bits of the big picture in black and white. I'm just saying that *to me* it's always not black and white. It's maybe what another prudent, similiarly trained, possibly licensed, and reasonable individual would do. In that situation.
But standard of care---Google had a good definition (IMHO):
check out the last one.
anywhoooo. some are referenceable directly, like *our* Unit Standards. (might be different elsewhere) ie: turn and reposition at least every 2 hours and documented, vital signs every one hour and documented, open heart patients a one to one for the first twenty four hours or until extubated, iv sites checked every hour and documented, etc...
Here, the curse of [i]guidelines[/i] (remember the "wellness policy guidelines"??):
[url="http://www.thoracic.org/sections/clinical-information/critical-care/evidence-based-critical-care/scientific-statements-and-practice-guidelines.html"]http://www.thoracic.org/sec tions/clinic...guidelines.html[/url]
so....sometimes, I don't *think* it's always something [i]tangible[/i]. Until an expert witness is invited to the party. Or several. The more in agreement....
But [i]guidelines[/i]. Remember that Mass. Document? It meant something to me. It's not often in the field of education I see something that [i]concrete[/i]. Well, at least not I'm like to seeing in my profession.
So. Professional Organizations. Governing Bodies. Licensing Bodies. [i]Guidelines[/i]. Professional Journals. What another reasonable, prudent, similiarly prepared (and licensed?) person would do. Or a whole bunch of them probably is a lot stronger statement when they agree, than not. It can get pretty messy....
Or, sometimes, it's straight to the point. Finito. Mano-a-Mano.
ps....maybe that "guidelines" clearing house might be something of interest. I don't know.
You know it's not advice, I still can't pinpoint a lot of this stuff all in one place, in black and white myself, but hey, after fifteen years, I still feel a confidence when I walk into work, and the links may not be accurate or current still.
[This message has been edited by The #l Mouser! (edited August 13, 2007).]

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 4:32pm
lilpig99's picture
Joined: 12/22/2005 - 09:00

I smell a bear.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 4:40pm
gvmom's picture
Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

I'm supposed to be upstairs watching a movie, waiting for the Perseid Meteor shower, but I snuck away.
A little cheese perhaps for you Mouser. Thought you might like something to sink your teeth into. Like you, don't hold me to the following links, they too are just off the cuff and are what have helped add fuel to my musings:
There is another pdf that I saved a copy of but now can't get the website.
See where those take you for now........

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 4:43pm
gvmom's picture
Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]I smell a bear.[/b]
Yes, it's managed to squeeze itself into a smaller skin and grow a longer tail. Less obtrusive than it's caucasian maligning counterpart that was also an alter ego.


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