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Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 7:44am
lilpig99's picture
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But what of the child that it *does* affect? Wouldn't it be best to include all?

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 7:45am
lilpig99's picture
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gvmom, I know I'm not giving you what you are really hoping for in this thread...I just can't think of much from the legal standpoint.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 7:52am
ajas_folks's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by lilpig99:
[b]But what of the child that it *does* affect? Wouldn't it be best to include all?[/b]
I will come back later to expand on this, but, our child is clearly one who is profoundly affected emotionally by this . . . partly due to his own emotional coping abilities, or lack there of, and partly due to the other childrens' (and staff's) "in-your-face" treatment of him with regard to the ostracism as to birthday & other celebrations in class.
But I have whopper lightning all around & have to shut down . . .
I'll be back. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
~Eliz
Edited to fix wording for clarity.
Also to add -- I feel fortunate that I've been able to recognize and respond to our son's negative emotional responses (and, frankly, deep resentment and anger manifestations) as to his peanut allergy and mistreatment (perceived or otherwise) by classmates and staff at his school.
I know I am not alone.
I dare say that there may be some in the PA community who are not aware (yet) of the possible emotional toll that this allergy may be taking on his/her child. Some children are masters at hiding pain. Some manifestations may be delayed . . .
It is a delicate-enough balancing act raising a child to be emotionally healthy when that child is already seemingly "normal" in all ways and/or "main stream" in all ways. But throw a wrench into the works as to a permanent, often negatively singling-out characteristic & the parent may often find himself/herself dropping off that tightrope and into the net below. Just pray the net holds each time. Or that there even IS a net.
~E
[This message has been edited by ajas_folks (edited August 12, 2007).]

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 8:55am
ajas_folks's picture
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From Texas Association of Student Councils Handbook 2004 --
[b] [i]
A safe school environment includes the following:
>Physical safety which is freedom from threats and physical harm, aggression, injury and damage to property
>Emotional safety which includes freedom from rejection, ostracism, social exclusion, isolation, mocking, taunting, name-calling, sarcasm, racially or sexually abusive comments, and humiliation. [/i] [/b]
Schools everywhere seem to be focused more & more on the safety & security, in all aspects, of our children while in the "care" of the school.
Maybe some consistency & enforcement by the district to go along with policy?
~Eliz
[This message has been edited by ajas_folks (edited August 12, 2007).]

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 9:18am
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[b]gvmom, I know I'm not giving you what you are really hoping for in this thread...I just can't think of much from the legal standpoint. [/b]
I don't think I hope for much these days. And really that isn't a snap at you.... just the reality of my life.
I think the thing is, I'm thinking about it removed a few steps.
It can feel like a personal thing when parents ignore including your child. I mean, if we sent in cool stuff for all the kids but one, don't think it wouldn't get back to us... even if it was an accident in making a number count.
Point is though, this is about a public entity that our children are required by law to attend.
School isn't like the real world. There is all sorts of stuff there, that in the real world, we never would agree to with respect to our FA children. Or at least I wouldn't.
I wouldn't leave my kids with a person who was only required to be shown how to use an epi-pen and get a brief explanation of FA's -- would you? But, according to the law in most places, without a 504 that outlines agreed upon measures that hopefully are more extensive, that is what you get.
In the real world, a birthday party is more than, "come on in, sit down, eat a cupcake, leave". There is stuff that goes on... including parental supervision and parental okay about food consumption....that schools don't think they should be required to do.
I wouldn't send my 5 year old to a party without either DH or I, I wouldn't let him eat a cupcake that I didn't have the ability to check the ingredients on (and that means more than a casual "Does this have eggs?), and I wouldn't even take him to a party that the only thing to do was to sit down and eat a cupcake. Think about it. What if your kids were invited to a birthday party? Outside of school. The only thing happening at this party was the consumption of a cupcake. The parents were going all out. These cupcakes were going to be out of this world, decorated beyond belief, and completely unsafe for your child. And these people inviting you were wonderful, sweet, kind people. Near Mother Teresa.
Would you take your kid?
Do you think your child would want to go and sit amongst all the other kids, enjoying their special, amazing cupcake, while yours had what you could figure out from home?
Honestly, I'm okay with my kids being different, and for the most part they are okay with it too. But I'd skip that kind of party. If that goes on at school though, your child is legally bound to be there.
How about if that cupcake eating extravaganza were to happen at your house. Those wonderful people decided you shouldn't drive anywhere, so the entire party is coming to your house. Now, I guess if you allow your child's allergens in your home this won't be an issue. But I don't. My kids should be able to be safe in their classroom. They have a right to a safe school according to our state constitution. Shouldn't that extend to their personal safety in a classroom that they are mandated to be present in?
Of course, I also don't have a problem with laws requiring modifications providing access to the handicapped. My Dad and I had a big discussion about that one day when he was griping about some proposed plans to a firehouse. But that is another story..... though in the real world, are accommodations for disabilities dependant on the sanctioning of a local government are they? For those places receiving Federal and State funds, they are a must aren't they?
I guess I'm just thinking Bigger Picture. Plus, I'm also thinking from my point of view. With my experiences from this last year... and those prior. Which I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Holding the school responsible for what it is they are required by law to do, when our kids are mandated to be there, is what I want. That is why the questions about legalities about exclusion & "Standard of Care".

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 9:22am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

BTW, that big diatribe from me above just now is I guess more of my thinking as a response to kelly's post.
Sorry, long day here.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 10:54am
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]I guess I'm just thinking Bigger Picture. [/b]
LUKE, I am your father... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] (SCHWOOOP-ahhhh)

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 10:58am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Personally, when I think about my son, particularly when he was younger, he would have been more traumatized by having a special treat box - being centered out.
Our PA children learn quite quickly that they are different than other children and that it's not a visible physical disability so people don't see it - they have to be told about it.
I was trying to think of the threatening/bullying that I've posted about here and it had NOTHING to do with Jesse and a "peanut free" classroom that did not allow those unsafe cupcakes. Those incidents were totally separate.
Again, I have to say, that I must be really different because I felt it was healthier for my guy to feel that there was no need for him to be excluded (for his psyche) than it was to send a special treat box in and have him mortified.
And, again, posting in the thread because it was do-able. I've seen it done. Now I feel as though I've gone both insane and blind!
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 12:26pm
McCobbre's picture
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Joined: 04/16/2005 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b].... and I'll tell you why.
Are schools allowed to celebrate Christmas, excluding their classmates that might have other faiths? Why would they be able to exclude a student, through something that isn't even and educational requirement, or necessary to their education in the classroom?
I feel that their teachers should have to look at my children, while they sit there, not being able to partake in what they allow to come through their doors. I also feel that the parents & students who want to bring in unsafe foods should also have to look at my children. They all should know that they are knowingly excluding my children. Sending in a safe treat already sets them apart. They won't be getting the same thing, or be able to be part of the so called sharing that people want to do when they bring in junk food. So why should I make it easier for them?
How many times do my children have to be excluded..... and in an "in your face way".....before their teachers and parents/students care enough to include them?
{PS. -- some of you know that I'm breaking my exile here, and only here, but I need input, opinions, legal thoughts.......}[/b]
I don't have anything to add about the legalities, but my experience is that schools (around here) seem to exclude children based on religion all the time. In first and second grade, they even wrote letters to Santa. The second year of this my DS protested arguing that kids who aren't Christian are excluded. It absolutely didn't help him make his case that his Hindu friend and his Jewish friend also gets visits from Santa and liked the activity.
With regard to the teachers having to care (I think that's basically what you are hoping for, right--because if they actively try to include it means they must care for our children, right?)--I don't know that this can be fostered in this way. I could be wrong. I think folks are used to seeing FA kids getting the short end of the stick and assume that they're used to it, that it doesn't bother them. It's just one more let down, right?
One year a person (room mom) who I ultimately trusted to bring a safe treat for DS because she is FA herself and ended up getting it initially balked at my saying that we need to be able to bring treats anytime treats are brought--this would be at two classroom parties each year (birthday cupcakes are only served in the cafeteria during lunch). She said that it wouldn't be fair to the other mothers.
First of all, I wasn't suggesting that we be the only ones to bake snacks--just that we always were able to do so. I wanted DS to be eating the same thing that other kids were.
Second of all, I don't know why other mothers wouldn't be hugging me since I'm taking away some baking burdens.
Third of all, and I responded with this, "It's not fair for my son to always be the odd one out wrt food and it's certainly not fair for him to have an allergic reaction because it is treat day."
I'm rambling now, I know.
I am with you on the exclusion thing. Always having your own treat is excluding. I think I've accepted that it is just a part of this thing, though. So I appreciate your post and making me question that.
But I don't know that a teacher is going to care about exclusion to that extent. And if a teacher isn't already moved by this allergy, seeing my child go without won't move them (it happened this year and no one batted an eye).
But I'll be very interested to be proved wrong. You'll keep us posted about this, won't you?

Posted on: Sun, 08/12/2007 - 12:29pm
McCobbre's picture
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Joined: 04/16/2005 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Alternative to Mainstream:
[b]
And I'm not going to say that this happened because I'm Canadian.
[/b]
I am. It's what I was thinking while reading your post--before getting to this sentence. You Canadians live different lives than we do down here (for the most part). And you're very lucky. I can't say I haven't thought about moving your way before. But brrrrrrrrr. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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