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Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 10:20am
PinkPoodle's picture
Joined: 06/12/2007 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Lori Anne:
It happened to my dd last year too. The tough part of it is the fact that my dd doesn't always come home and tell me. She holds it in and tries to be brave. She tells herself it's O.K. The teacher then believed she was O.K. with this arrangement. She was not. I found out--later. I wish I had known sooner.[/b]
Ditto--so many times this happened to DD. She also kept so much in. I hate to think where this will lead us in 5, 10 years...
Quote:Originally posted by Lori Anne:
[b] The worst was when the class had an ice cream party. Two kids were misbehaving and had to miss it as a consequence. They were told to sit on the carpet. Guess where the teacher put dd? On the carpet with those kids. Yes, she put her with kids who were being punished. [/b]
Shaking my head...
I'm sorry. So very sorry.
It is disgusting behavior---repeating itself over and over...in schools all over.
I'm also sorry that we all have so much to deal with the schools and we can't post openly because we know they are looking (I know for a fact they have).

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 10:34am
ajas_folks's picture
Joined: 04/28/2000 - 09:00

Just want to say that I am not intending to hijack this thread -- and to say to EVERYBODY here -- there are MANY sympathetic ears here. Truly. If you do not feel comfortable about posting an experience, there are many of us with e-mail addresses posted in profiles & we are more than willing to be a sounding board, or even a private "ear". Protocol supposedly is that you just ask on boards, "may I e-mail you" --though some of us have written into our Profiles "Please feel free to e-mail me" as a way of relieving that burden, should you feel it.
(OH, forgive this analogy) We *are* all in this same boat -- though some of us row (& feel like we're getting NO where), and some of us may occasionally feel like we're at the helm. But many are in between -- steerage? prisoner-hold? walking the plank? or just plain [i] shot in the screws [/i] (for the navy wives here [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] ). We get all excited when somebody can cry "Land Ho!"
And we are all there when the cry is "Man Overboard!"
So, thank you all for the preservers thrown & the life boats launched to me tonight.
There is nothing more important than the children. That's all we ever really want anybody to really recognize anyway.
Thank you all.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 10:42am
Lori Anne's picture
Joined: 07/13/2005 - 09:00

Oops sorry! I didn't mean to hijack it either. I've just been carrying those experiences around for a year and when I heard a similar story....well...
anyway, I'll delete my info if you'd like.
I know we're all in this together and no one has it easy.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 10:50am
ajas_folks's picture
Joined: 04/28/2000 - 09:00

Lori Anne -- Please leave your experience here, if you feel comfortable. I think it's really important to show the realm of experiences, and I am SO glad you felt comfortable posting this!!
gvmom -- this thread and its marvelous input, from all directions, is or will be [i]pivotal[/i] for many of us in our PA journeys. THANK YOU.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 11:01am
anonymous's picture
Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by PinkPoodle:
It was a great discussion, though! I love that you got a copy of the incident report, MB! Love that!
it's on linen district letterhead..... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
After that incident, I really started investing some strategy into writing the food allergy accommodations with [i]goals[/i] included. Like "(Student name) will safely participate in an environment as outlined in his physician letter with peers for all celebrations, birthdays, holidays, rewards, class or extracurricular activities. He will not be excluded due to his disability of a Life Threatening Food Allergy or Asthma." (paraphrased from memory)
Just in case people aren't good at interpreting what the "accommodation" should translate too. Goals are very powerful. Equally as powerful, if not more powerful than the accommodation itself. Then you can say: "Hey, does this picture (ie: celebration) look like that picture (goal)?" if not....you can say:
"Make it so. Do what you gotta do, but make it so." It removes the onus of you having to anticipate every snake-like movement.
Sure, goals are part of the normal IEP process (and I'd expect them to be for a 504 as well), but I was accustomed to them long before I ever heard the expressions IEP or 504. It's what I do. Measuring [i]outcomes[/i] is part of the Nursing Process. the "As Evidenced by" part. I chart on them every shift. It leaves one with a sense of accountability. Goals....

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 12:09pm
PinkPoodle's picture
Joined: 06/12/2007 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by The #l Mouser!:
[b] goals are part of the normal IEP process (and I'd expect them to be for a [i]504[/i] as well), but I was accustomed to them long before I ever heard the expressions IEP or 504. [/b]
Can someone who is more knowledgable with 504s answer this. I know my DD's 504 didn't include goals; simply accommodations. Should goals have been discussed/included???!!! Sounds like a lovely idea or should I write 'idea' as IDEA [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by PinkPoodle (edited August 22, 2007).]

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 12:28pm
McCobbre's picture
Joined: 04/16/2005 - 09:00

EB--I just reread your post, and I don't think I initially truly got the underhandedness with which your school is behaving. I don't think my response was very supportive. My apologies.
(Stomping Foot) Of all the slime ballin', controlling, yellow belly tricks to play . . . just completely going around the plan like that--and in a way that completely leaves your little guy out . . . it's sickening.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 12:52pm
lilpig99's picture
Joined: 12/22/2005 - 09:00

[b]gvmom -- this thread and its marvelous input, from all directions, is or will be pivotal for many of us in our PA journeys. THANK YOU.[/b]
If there ever needs to be a 'sticky' thread on a board, it's this one. The perspective offered within, the analogies. All of it....needed. It has felt good to take off the blinders, that is step one. Step two is up to each one of us, for our own unique situations.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 12:52pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Okay. The topic I cannot stay away from. I know that I cannot equate not sending in a safe treat box with the "peanut free" table at school but I'm going to anyway. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
How do you think my son felt, when starting at a new school, back in the "big city" (he was born here, but grew up in the country), when he was confronted with not only having to eat in a lunchroom but not in his classroom (previously, food was eaten in the classroom - so "peanut free" classrooms were done and again do-able - even if that word is no where to be found in a dictionary).
He is new to the school, new to the City (at least in the last town, when he did change schools he often ran into other children he knew who had also moved - similar Nomad like minded parents whatever [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] ), and he is placed, when is in in Grade 4, at a BENCH, in the lunchroom for Grade 7 and 8's.
My nieces just completed Grade 8 at this particular school and let's just say that their transition also back into "the city" has not been easy. They had a difficult enough time of it in Grades 6, 7, and 8, without being forced to sit away from their classmates and eat at a BENCH.
So, in Grade 4, he's sitting at a BENCH, with all of the other PA students (perhaps 7 or 8, various grades), and I can imagine what some of the Grade 7 or 8 kids had to say to them (or maybe they were completely ignored).
He doesn't get that social time to sit with his new classmates and interact with them at all at lunch-time. He's the type of child that has had a difficult go of it, and yes, I share some responsibility in that, having moved as much as we did.
When he mentioned the BENCH to me, I went in one day to find him sitting at the BENCH with only one other PA student, older than him. I asked the older PA student about it and he said that that was the way it had always been done and he was okay with it.
Also noting, that as far as I've seen, my son is the only one wearing an Epi-Belt.
Talk about wounding to one's psyche. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
Yes, it did happen for a whole year. When I spoke with the principal, she told me that she would try to work something out. When I spoke with Anaphylaxis Canada (our version of FAAN), they basically told me to grin and bear it.
Then, tonight I was thinking about different personalities of our children - my two kids are like day and night personality wise and I was thinking if one would have accepted the situation any better than the other. NO!
I guess my ? really has to be - if we are asking for "accommodations" for our PA children in the schools - aren't we doing kinda a half a$$ed job when we allow for certain things that shouldn't be allow-able?
The 504 Plan, as I understand it, outlines very clearly what foods are okay for celebrations in gvmom's children's classrooms.
So, in essence, the 504 Plan is to be adhered to, except.....
That makes NO sense to me.
Based on my own family's experience (including that of Ron's sister/husband and their three daughters), us all coming back to Toronto three years ago, only the two youngest children from each family made an easy transition (or relatively) into yet another new school and school in the "big city". It was hard. These were children that had spent 6 or 4 years in the country (and in the case of Ron's sister - her children did not change schools). ALL of them had a hard time making friends.
The two oldest of my nieces, never did - not because they're not personable, nice young ladies, but by the time they came back to Toronto, cliques had already been formed and they were left out (and they had gone to school in Toronto).
My point in all the rambling about family stuff is that none of the children (except, as I say, the youngest two - my daughter and my youngest niece), had an easy go of it. Can you imagine how my son felt when you add PA and a BENCH into the mix?
I remember an incident when toilet teaching my son. One thing I did *wrong*. I had encouraged him too loudly one day and that set him back for months. He does not like to be centered out; for any reason.
So, for me to have sent a safe treat box into school with him, no, that would have centered him out again. I worked with the school(s) so that he wouldn't be.
The other thing I was thinking earlier tonight was that I consider us to be living in the *real* world and from what erik has posted on this board, at the age of 40 (or so), he has lived in the *real* world with his PA and experienced I think, pretty much everything we all have, except eating peanuts.
So, this thing (I do have another word, but not a nice one) about sending in a safe treat box to show that your child has to do things differently in the *real* world doesn't wash with me at all. That they have to learn that they will be excluded. That they have to learn that there are certain foods that they cannot eat. ******* , they all know that already. Why have it re-inforced in an environment where it can be stopped (although perhaps for some not easily)? What is *wrong* with people that they would send that message to their children? How can you sit back and watch this happen and say that if they didn't have a safe treat box it is damaging their psyche?
NO! Telling them that someone else's birthday cupcake is more important than their emotional well-being and even moreso, their LIFE, well.......
I'll stop my diatribe. But every time I sit down to think, I just can't believe that people think that this is okay. Even when presented with the particular words in gvmom's 504 Plan.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Wed, 08/22/2007 - 1:47pm
ceross's picture
Joined: 01/27/2004 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by ajas_folks:
Keeping your posts (as they currently appear) there in full, but only addressing that you felt I took part of your original post out of context.
First of all, it was not my intention to "quote out of context" but to simply respond briefly to a specific part of your post which I interpreted to be a generalized comment, given my perceived tone of the entire post.
Additionally, with the "original" version of your follow-up post to mine (as I read it in its form on August 19th, but did not have time to respond), your reference to our method of "NO safe treat box" as being a [b] [i] Draconian approach [/i] [/b] led me to again perceive an intended "tone".
If I have horribly misinterpreted or misunderstood, I apologize.
Here for everyone's benefit is your quote out of context of my post:
Originally posted by ceross:
Certainly, safeguards should be in place and if those are violated, I'll deal with them but asking for protections that would serve no purpose would only serve to make other families resent us.
Insisting on a a basic, inclusive, and CONSISTENT policy of food if it's only completely safe for everyone is HARDLY asking for a protection that "serves no purpose"! We are talking about "special" celebrations and food in the classroom, NOT required meals and required daily nutrition. And if the BASIC purpose is to keep my son fundamentally ALIVE, then does that not serve a bonafide purpose??
I guess what I really want to know at this point is, when are WE as a food allergy community going to be willing to QUIT APOLOGIZING to EVERYBODY ELSE for INCONVENIENCING THEM with our OUR MEDICAL NEEDS?? W.H.E.N.???
I will take the resentment of 10,000,000 other families if it means my son comes home to me at the end of the school day ALIVE.
Here's the full portion of my quote you excised. Note it starts with "We" which means I was discussing our situation. It further goes on to discuss our rule for DD and food. I further reference "free of all her allergens" and say she wouldn't be allowed to eat it anyway. I'm not sure how a paragraph with so many specific references to our situation can be construed as a "generalized" comment. Yet it was used but only a sentence that could be inflammatory to make a point.
Quote:We also have a very simple rule for DD (who is 6): You don't eat anything not provided or checked by mommy/daddy. So forcing parents to bring in a celebratory snack free of all her allergens that she wouldn't be allowed to eat anyway wouldn't be right. It wouldn't be fair to the other 24 kids in her class who do not have allergies. My daughter is one person and the world does not revolve around her even despite her allergies. Certainly, safeguards should be in place and if those are violated, I'll deal with them but asking for protections that would serve no purpose would only serve to make other families resent us.
My comment was not a general comment; it was specific to our situation. You snipped it to make a generalized comment. By all means make that comment but don't quote me out of context to do so.
As for the draconian remark, I edited because I did feel that was harsh. But certainly continue to have fun using the term at my expense. You talk about inclusion in your posts in regards to your child; however, you, gvmom, #1Mouser are rather exclusionary on the boards. You routinely put down thoughts are approaches that are not in lock-step with yours.
I understand that you have had horrendous experiences and reading about them is enlightening. As you so thoughtfully pointed out, I am a neophyte with dealing with this and you have certainly indicated that you feel I will likely be disabused of my optimism in the future. I guess I'd like to cling to that optimism.
You are entitled to feel that I am giving the school an out with the safe snack box. I see it differently by allowing a fallback in case a celebration "pops up" as routinely happens or the teacher fails to inform us of a celebration. (I'll deal with the teacher but that happens after the fact; at least the treat box resolves the issue at that moment and DD is truly not excluded.) At least DD will have something rather than have to sit there and gaze at her navel. I also do the treat box because as I've mentioned DD is not allowed to have anything her parents haven't provided; because she sees me prepare the treat box by reading labels and placing the items in the box, she knows it's safe and that alleviates some anxiety on her part. For me, I'm just not at a point that I would want to give up that control and I'd never feel comfortable letting her have something another parent brought even it it had an ingredient listing or came off the safe snack list. I just don't have that level of trust in other parents. Because of that, I'd always be sending something in for DD.
May I ask this question: Given the chicanery that parents at your child's school will go to to circumvent the, I would say, reasonable protections in place, would you trust them to bring in a safe snack for your child? Wasn't their a column posted on the board here in which the author talked about purposely disguising the ingredients of her child's day care snack so as to appear not to be in violation of the rules. Couldn't it be conceivable that a parent **** -bent on having the treat they want do a similar thing? To get into even more detail, wouldn't cupcakes bought at a store bakery technically be acceptable if they didn't have the allergen as an ingredient and didn't carry any may contain/cross contamination warnings? However, most of us here would find no cross-contamination warnings on those boxes to be highly dubious. What would happen if you nixed that treat for safety reasons (again, I think that would be the safest thing to do)? Wouldn't there be a further backlash?
Certainly food-free celebrations would be best, but I think that is an unlikely scenario in most school districts. (See the pragmatist in me trumps my optimism in that situation.) I think flying pigs were mentioned earlier.
I can see why you're so upset. I hope your approach works for you but I also hope that your son doesn't suffer more (because of retaliation or snide comments). Unfortunately, it sounds as if you are dealing with an incredibly selfish group of parents. I hope that their attitude does not trickle down to their children.
I would certainly say that I have been fortunate to have had understanding teachers, administrators, and fellow parents. It's not to say that everything has run smoothly but when there has been an issue, I have been fortunate enough that it was not motivated by malice on the part of the teacher as some of you have encountered. I will also add that I have been very luckly to have encountered almost no parents that have not been accommodating. I accompanied DD on a day care field trip to the zoo today and not one child had a lunch with peanut butter. As requested, every child had a nut free lunch. And guess what, they all managed to be happy and survive without peanut butter.
Our approaches are colored by our previous experiences and neither is wrong and both have the best of intentions at their core. In the 6 years of dealing with DD's allergies, I have been fortunate. I guess, according to you, I should be counting my lucky stars.
This may a bit OT but I'll share this: We changed DD's allergist to Dr. Robert Wood and saw him for the first time this year. I brought up the issue of obtaining a 504 for DD because their had been a couple of issues last year. He essentially said that the 504 is not going to make them any more compliant and I read into his comments that day that he probably felt it not necessary.
[This message has been edited by ceross (edited August 23, 2007).]


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