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Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 12:36pm
lilpig99's picture
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Joined: 12/22/2005 - 09:00

[b]However, as some other posters have mentioned, teachers will make mistakes in this imperfect world of elementary school. So for us, snack box = safety net. DS finds it comforting to have a safety net so he can consume food with confidence when a food situation presents itself. Certainly he has preferred it to the alternative of exclusion, which I still contend, would happen more often than not, realistically.[/b]
Our situation is living proof of teachers making very serious label reading mistakes, and myself being at the right place at the right time to catch it. So I completely understand that the snack box serves as a great safety net. But one can still go in and read every label....a you get inclusion, plus safety, because you know perfectly well your chances of missing an allergen on a label is next to zero. YWIM? Of course there would have to be alot of supporting accomodations involved...if the food is not safe for all (as deemed by the parent) then it doesn't get served.
Just a thought...

Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 12:42pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Quote:
...I think I might go look into that staring out the window with a cup of coffee thing.............
Well, confidentially, we now have an aquarium. Staring at the Neon Tetras strikes other people as a whole lot less 'weird' and nobody thinks I need medicating for my depression now. LOL! (I'm not depressed... I'm angst-ridden, cynical, and bitter. Big difference.)
gvmom-- you might put some feelers out about an out-of-district placement at CenCA or CapoCA. Find out if the reasoning behind the geographical restrictions is CA [i]or local schools that don't want to lose student funding when kids leave their B+M schools.[/i] I strongly suspect it is the latter... which means they might, ummmmm, I dunno-- [i]make an exception for YOU.[/i]
C.A. knows how school and LTFA works now and has a Hx of doing 504 plans. (We've taught them as we've gone.) Wouldn't hurt to call the 800 number and find out the scoop, anyway.
Or maybe your state legislator..... heheheh. To 'inquire' about these geographical restrictions that really don't make any sense whatsoever.... since you have the internet where you are-- IMAGINE! And it seems like [i]such[/i] a good option.
Sounds like you've had quite the week-- LOL about the 'surgical' approach to the quick and dirty pn challenge on your younger DC, though. Naturally, that's when older DC would get stung. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] How could it have been any other way?? (You can just add another bark of ironic laughter there, too.)
I know it's August, but somehow I always feel a lot better when I watch the ever-Quixotic Chevy Chase in [i]Christmas Vacation.[/i] Now [i]there's[/i] cinematic potential for an FA story if ever there were one. Be a pretty black comedy, though... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] "Ho-ley-Sh**-where's-the-Tylenol!!" A sentiment we can all embrace.

Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 2:58pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

gvmom, I'm glad you understood what I said. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I know that even if Jesse would not speak up on his behalf in earlier grades, other children (non-PA) would. They'd say to the teacher - hey, this food isn't okay for the "peanut free" classroom or so and so has something they should have in the classroom. Remembering, at that time, when Jess was first in school and up until this school, they ate snack and lunch in the classroom.
Of course, not that you necessarily say it this way, but some perception I'm feeling that if we are *vocal* advocates in some way we must be witchy people (replace w with b), it's not like when I went into the Grade 3 classroom to check the food, I told the teacher to "get the f/n unsafe food out of the f/n classroom". It doesn't come out that way - it doesn't come out coarse - it comes out firm. Could you please remove the offending food or this is going to happen.......
Again, I have to re-iterate that I firmly believe my *passion* with Jesse in JK, SK, Grades 1, 2 and even that horrible 3 (and me apologizing to him for what I *should* have done with the OHRC and didn't on his behalf) is what made my guy tell me about the peanut free BENCH at school and that he was not comfie with it and could I work with the principal about it.
I truly believe that if I had not shown any *advocacy* (and is that really the correct word?) when he was younger, he would have thought that it was *okay* for him to be at the BENCH, not only excluded from his classmates entirely (in a totally different room with Grade 7 and 8 kids) but at a BENCH with PA children only - all at different grade levels. It was NOT okay.
Yet, in a school that had dealt with PA children before, not one PA child or PA parent had complained to the office about the BENCH. It was like, what?
Does that mean I have some bold little bugger of a kid on my hand who speaks up about his allergy and his rights? No! He's still my guy, KWIM? But I think he does know that if something is not sitting well with him, with regard to his allergy, at school (or elsewhere really), he knows that he can talk to me about it and I will try my best to either do what I have to do or tell him what he has to do.
I truly believe people have to get the point. The rules. What is written down. What is law for that classroom. How many times does it take to turn away the Cupcake Queens before they "get it"? I imagine quite a few, but still.
And I do find with those *type* of people (and remember, I'm not jealous, because I did post about how I would take in made from scratch, yes ma'am, carrot muffins when Jess was in JK and SK and recognized that *my* behaviour was not okay); they tend not to confront you because well, you're not one of them to begin with. They may mumble and grumble amongst themselves, but what does that matter.
Then, when they do decide that they're oh so furious that this is happening and dear little Johnny didn't get a cupcake at school on his birthday and all his classmates did not get to recognize his birthday and oh my soul, that's going to ruin his life, because well, he's so special, he's entitled, and a simple (or not simple even) birthday party with friends and/or family isn't just good enough anymore these days; they go to administration and administration (or teacher) once they really realize the ramifications of violating a 504 Plan they will actually stand by you and say that I'm sorry, but it is not okay for a child to DIE under my watch simply because your child had a birthday.
It HAS been done. It is do-able.
Principals in most of Jesse's schools when he was young (and the superintendent in the one school board district) had two great one-liners that they gave to parents who called to complain. I forget them because it's late and I'm tired.
What are you telling your child when you are saying that what they eat is more important than another child's life?
There was another one. I'll try to remember.
Yes, that back-to-school list - very different than non-PA childrens' family's, eh?
Since Jesse is at the same school again, I actually whittle away at that stuff, if that makes sense.
But no, I'm glad you understood what I meant.
Now, I am off to Google the movie Fur - a fictional account of the life of photographer Diane Arbus. I just watched it and I'm trying to figure some stuff out.
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 4:11pm
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
What I was trying to communicate in my post is that the position of School Nurse is not funded by "special education" in our school district.
[/b]
Wonder if an additional nurse, above and beyond the positions already filled (you have 2?) would be. You know, to match the patie....population acuity. Sorry, slipping off into professional speak...last I recall, there *are* recommendations and staffing ratios related to school nurses.

Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 4:44pm
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
MB, I'm curious: Since 504 plans make accommodations to access the learning environment, do you think [i]all [/i] students/conditions that 'only' qualify under 504 should qualify under IDEA?
[/b]
If they also fall under one of the 13 qualifying categories I don't feel 504 should be an option [b]period[/b].
That if they are addressed (and you know how I feel about the obligation to address certain "known" issues---pretty dissapointed by a blip in a recent threads), and at that point, the IEP Process *IS* what is appropriate.
Whether people are intimidated by certain domains in a "full case study" or not. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
And as I understand it, and I could be wrong, maybe every child doesn't get a "full case study". Even tho I've always walked in to our IAP meetings counting on getting one. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
I feel this way, whether a school district likes to say they have so many (or little) "special education" needs children or not. Do you think there is a tendency for schools, or at least some school districts, to desire to under-represent those numbers?
What are your thoughts?

Posted on: Sat, 08/18/2007 - 11:05pm
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by The #l Mouser!:
If they also fall under one of the 13 qualifying categories I don't feel 504 should be an option [b]period[/b].[/B]
What would be some examples of conditions that would qualify under 504 and not under IDEA-OHI?

Posted on: Sun, 08/19/2007 - 12:04am
Gail W's picture
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Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by The # I Mouser!:
My superintendent offerred it to us.
Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
Is that based solely on your child(s) FA's?

Posted on: Sun, 08/19/2007 - 1:41am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

I really feel to have the same question reposted again and again, with no acknowledgement offered to the previous replies, after it's been answered ad nauseum, devalues the previous replies. So, if my honest answer is going to be flat out rejected, then I might as well go back to "Off Topic".
But hey, here's my chance to add:
Gail, the idea of each disability being "individual" to the person it affects is stressed under IDEA. Off the cuff, and a bit tongue in cheek, I also tend to believ that "individuality" might include the individual [i]moxy[/i] of each parent? [i]Your mother better love ya.[/i]
When I took my children home, (separate occassions) I was ready to suffer the consequences of keeping them safe. Of prioritizing "health and safety". Those consequences included the responsibility of educating them myself. Lucky for me it worked out, huh?
But I tend to be an optimist. I think the revision of the OHI definition for IDEA 2004 widens the net for many individuals who might otherwise not qualify. And might even possibly [i]limit[/i] whose eligible for protection under 504 if a school district is so inclined to enforce the idea that if an individual qualifies for both, they can require that if coverage is provided, it be delivered under IDEA, not 504. Make sense?
It's my understanding a major factor into revising the definition of OHI for 2004 IDEA involved including "ADHD". I also don't think, for example, a simple "Asthma" diagnoses automatically qualifies. But I think, it is prudent, if not obligatory, that when those conditions are [i]red flagged[/i], made known, potential consequences of their existence be ruled out.
No advice, but is that more what you are looking for?

Posted on: Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:15am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]I really feel to have the same question reposted again and again, with no acknowledgement offered to the previous replies, after it's been answered ad nauseum, devalues the previous replies. So, if my honest answer is going to be flat out rejected, then I might as well go back to "Off Topic".[/b]
Here's the point. And really, I don't want this to always end up into a spiraling downward argument about IDEA/IEP and 504. Of course, that always seems to be what happens.
But, the reason why you keep being asked if the offer was based solely on your childs FA's is because you never answer a direct yes or no. There always appears to be a big dance around. YES or NO?
And it is that simple. If why your children were offered the IDEA/IEP designation was based solely on their FA's, then you should be able to say it. Citing policy, etc., doesn't answer the question, posed TO YOU .... it isn't about hearing qualifying statements, analogies, legal connecting of the dots..... it is about a single word answer. Easy. Clean. Neat. Surgical.
I personally think, and I could be wrong, that you can't say that because there are always other mitigating circumstances that get your foot in the door aren't there? Given all of your interactions with your circumstances, you can't really be sure.
My children do not have anything else that qualifies them in a way that the people I would be dealing with, and probably the people most would be dealing with, that would be viewed as legitimate reasons for any designation of any sort (like asthma, autism, LD's, etc.) I understand why IDEA/IEP could qualify it NOW.... but when I started this process, and up until recently, it seemed far fetched to me even. And I am by far not as versed, or even remotely close, as you guys here. Think about who many of us are having to connect the dots for when dealing with getting a 504 in place. AND THAT HAS LANGUAGE FOR US EVEN.
We go round and round and round again here. WE ALL DON'T EVEN AGREE.
Getting our district to believe, or even concede due to just a legality not because they truly endorse the legitimacy, could be described as being akin to getting an atheist to believe in God. It isn't going to happen. The most you might get is to turn them into an agnostic...... barring a miracle other than seeing Jesus in a potato chip.
If you have to connect too many dots, jump through too many hoops, it becomes too much of a stretch, NO MATTER HOW RIGHT YOU ARE... and you will end up with nothing. Which at its heart is good for the moral stand, but a 504 will cover my children, has language for LTFA's and is closer to something a donkey will recognize than IDEA/IEP.
Bottom line is, I believe the 504 is applicable to my children. In some senses, depending on how things go, I even believe an IDEA/IEP would be applicable to my other son too. BUT THAT IS BECAUSE I LIVE WITH IT ALL DAY LONG EVERY DAY. I would never be able to get the subtlety across to anyone who also doesn't live that way -- and I'm talking about severe chronic excema. No child will be learning anything if they are itching, bloody and gooped up...... and if certain things aren't done, or are allowed to be done, in school, then that is the way my younger guy will spend his days.
BUT.... all that being said.......
I think that always having this discussion, this same fight, without a single person who said that they approached the school, asked for a IDEA/IEP designation solely for their child with FA's and got it, or was offered it, will always give rise to the question about the possibility because the remoteness of qualification is even in the back of many people's minds even with 504's, which have even clearer language.
Plus, we ask, and want to know from a person who has gotten IDEA/IEP for LTFA's based solely on FA's because we want to be able to ask the next obvious question: HOW DID YOU DO IT?
Mitigating circumstances cloud the data and make the end resulting data come into question.
Now, I have a question, I can't say why I'm asking it, but........ what is the biggest list of people you've cc'd with communication during your 504 process, the highest ranking official cc'd in your process, and Gail, if you are reading along and around, can you email me?

Posted on: Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:41am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by gvmom:
[b]I really feel to have the same question reposted again and again, with no acknowledgement offered to the previous replies, after it's been answered ad nauseum, devalues the previous replies. So, if my honest answer is going to be flat out rejected, then I might as well go back to "Off Topic".[/b]
Here's the point. And really, I don't want this to always end up into a spiraling downward argument about IDEA/IEP and 504. Of course, that always seems to be what happens.
But, the reason why you keep being asked if the offer was based solely on your childs FA's is because you never answer a direct yes or no. There always appears to be a big dance around. YES or NO?
there is a much more polite way to "re-ask". It starts with acknowledging the person has already, or possiby multiple times, attempted an answer.
Quote:[b]And it is that simple. If why your children were offered the IDEA/IEP designation was based solely on their FA's, then you should be able to say it. Citing policy, etc., doesn't answer the question, posed TO YOU .... it isn't about hearing qualifying statements, analogies, legal connecting of the dots..... it is about a single word answer. Easy. Clean. Neat. Surgical.
I personally think, and I could be wrong, that you can't say that because there are always other mitigating circumstances that get your foot in the door aren't there? Given all of your interactions with your circumstances, you can't really be sure.[/b]
and I feel I've went out of my way to explain that. How do I know what my super was thinking (and I also explained it really wasn't an "offer", but merely a [i]suggestion[/i]. I've explained there was a lot of muck going on, possibly some intradistrict retalliation or forwarning....what do I know? I've also explained many times, that I've asked my contacts in the district if my OHI would "stand alone" (as I suspect it would) if they were to drop his other labels. There has been a resounding "yes". I've even asked in email. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img] Yes, you are right, it's no simple "yes" or "no" answer, and apparently *you* understand that. Thank you for reassuring me you understand. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to apologize for not having a yes or no answer, I've never sold it as a yes or no, I think people just were hoping it was. Maybe ticked *at me* that it wasn't.
Quote:[b]My children do not have anything else that qualifies them in a way that the people I would be dealing with, and probably the people most would be dealing with, that would be viewed as legitimate reasons for any designation of any sort (like asthma, autism, LD's, etc.) I understand why IDEA/IEP could qualify it NOW.... but when I started this process, and up until recently, it seemed far fetched to me even. And I am by far not as versed, or even remotely close, as you guys here. Think about who many of us are having to connect the dots for when dealing with getting a 504 in place. AND THAT HAS LANGUAGE FOR US EVEN.[/b]
have you taken a look at the last few links I've posted? If you ever want to talk over the phone, email me. That's an honest, almost desperate offer to be of some value here. I risk sounding ridiculous to offer at this point, but I don't care.
Quote:[b]
Getting our district to believe, or even concede due to just a legality not because they truly endorse the legitimacy, could be described as being akin to getting an atheist to believe in God. It isn't going to happen. The most you might get is to turn them into an agnostic...... barring a miracle other than seeing Jesus in a potato chip.[/b]
again, let me know if you ever want a phone conversation.
Quote:[b]If you have to connect too many dots, jump through too many hoops, it becomes too much of a stretch, NO MATTER HOW RIGHT YOU ARE... and you will end up with nothing. [/b]
then I'm living proof of miracles.
Quote:[b]Which at its heart is good for the moral stand, but a 504 will cover my children, has language for LTFA's and is closer to something a donkey will recognize than IDEA/IEP. [/b]
I've always felt my school took the IEP process more seriously, (and demonstrated so) but I could be wrong. And since we've often considered moving to a bigger more affordable home, I like that it is transferable...
Quote:[b]Plus, we ask, and want to know from a person who has gotten IDEA/IEP for LTFA's based solely on FA's because we want to be able to ask the next obvious question: HOW DID YOU DO IT?[/b]
phone call...? (stop making that face)
Quote:[b]Mitigating circumstances cloud the data and make the end resulting data come into question.[/b]
aren't there ALWAYS mitigating circumstances?
Quote:[b]Now, I have a question, I can't say why I'm asking it, but........ what is the biggest list of people you've cc'd with communication during your 504 process, the highest ranking official cc'd in your process, and Gail, if you are reading along and around, can you email me?
[/b]
As dense as I am, I get the increasing suspicion I'm more of an annoyance than having contributed anything real here. A simple "yes or no" should confirm...

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