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Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 12:30am
McCobbre's picture
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Joined: 04/16/2005 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by McCobbre:
[b]Cin--I was going to repond to your question, but then I read Elizabeth's post. So: what Elizabeth said--especially the part about the different psyche in Candada so against our own "out for #1."
I told a friend whose daughter is going to school in Toronto that someday DS may get to go away to camp--but it will probably be in Canada.
I think our American psyche--shall I call it a pathos?--is at the root of some of our issues. There's such a sense of the survival of the fittest here and of "the majority rules." Perhaps as more and more kids get PA our kids will get greater acceptance simply because in this democracy, the majority does rule. And that's why I was thinking in my earlier post just now that the landscape will be so different in 7-10 years--in large part because we're carving it out now but also because (and I didn't make this clear) the population will be different.
But our kids need inclusion [i]now[/i] to grow up to be healthy adults. [/b]

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 1:08am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

To me, and it may have been answered already, but this is the first question I *should* have asked - does your child's 504 Plan say that there is to be no food in the classroom? Or, does it say that if there is food it is to be "peanut free"? If it says that it is to be "peanut free", to what extent (i.e., no "may contains", "made ins")?
If I remember correctly, your child entering Grade 3 eats lunch outside on the blacktop (or there was a table set up)? So, lunch and snacks are eaten out of the classroom?
Just throwing this out because again, I don't know if it's helpful or not - but again, why I know that this is do-able. To me, as I said, my son going to school meant that he HAD to be included in each and every school event, even if it was before or after school (the Fun Fair thing in SK).
The "before school" thing would have been the two breakfast programs I ran - both in different school board districts in Ontario.
I insisted that they also be "peanut free" and that included no "may contains" either. I mean, if I was working the thing (volunteering the thing), my kids were coming in to eat when I was there so it had to be safe for my son. And again, albeit mistakes being made and food having to be removed and taken to the office, it was done.
In looking at successive (?) grades - co-operation certainly of the teacher and principal affected whether or not this was work-able, do-able.
In Grade 2 - when the horror show first began - it was the teacher that undermined everything. She was supposed to be checking and not allowing, at that time "may contains" in the classroom. Three months into the school year, I find out about the "may contains". Then, the job of inspecting was given to an E.A. (which had always been done in the past - JK, SK, Grade One). But, by that time, all he** had broken loose. The principal was SO great - the teacher, well, I still have some very nasty thoughts about her. It was that year that I started to hear really horrible words come out of other parents' mouths. Oh, even at the beginning of the school year when the "peanut free" classroom letter went home. One woman did call the superintendent of the school board to complain about her child's *right* to eat peanut products. She was given "the party line".
Grade Three. That was probably the worst year of my life. The principal (a complete and utter you know what) did not even want my son in his school. I had to fight with him (and call The Ontario Human Rights Commission) to even get my son into school. I'll have to re-check, but I do believe Jess missed at least the first day of school, in a new school, because we had to get it sorted. The principal would not even accept my written school plan; even though it adheres to school board policy throughout Ontario.
Needless to say (or not necessarily), the teacher took the same stance. It was a horrible year. Horrible. But I still kept those gosh darn cupcakes out of the classroom.
By Grade 4 (the current school at which my son will be entering Grade 7), I had a whole new thing to deal with - the lunch room. And then, in our case, the "peanut free" BENCH.
As I posted in this thread, I did go in and check at parties about the food; but to me, what was in the classroom wasn't the *issue* I could focus on that year - the BENCH was. Does that make sense?
Grade 5, I still had the BENCH to deal with (a new and improved one) and I gave my son the responsibility of checking food before he ate it.
If I felt like trailblazing these days, it would be *my* need to see written guidelines for a school calling itself "reduce the risk" when to me, it's not.
McCobbre, certainly, whatever is done now as far as "trailblazing" (if you will) will benefit the children coming after our's. I've seen that happen already when my son had been the only PA child in the school and then other's followed. The parents didn't have to go through what I (and I guess my son) went through.
I remember even when I was on my *missions*, there were members here who had had the work done for them by someone else (which was great) and they NEVER encountered the difficulties I did through the years. I often wished I was them. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
There but for the Grace of God, go I.

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 2:00am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]Every.
Day.
In.
Every.
School.
"We can't..."
"You can't expect us to....."
"We just cannot...."
"You need to be realistic--
can't dictate to other parents....
real world--
can't shelter--
just the way it is...."
[/b]
[i]"you just can't force parents though"[/i]

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 3:13am
solarflare's picture
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Joined: 02/07/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by The #l Mouser!:
[b] [i]"you just can't force parents though"[/i][/b]
What it comes down to is that you can't force other people to care about your child as much as you do.

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 3:23am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by solarflare:
[b] What it comes down to is that you can't force other people to care about your child as much as you do.
[/b]
Who ever said it was about forcing [i]other[/i] people to care about [i]my*[/i] child as much as I do?

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 4:44am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Joined: 05/22/2001 - 09:00

I am under no illusions regarding [i]that[/i]-- and after gvmom's experiences over the past year, I doubt seriously that she is either... Nobody is saying that you can EVER 'mandate' that someone else 'care' about your child more.
I think what she is looking to accomplish is to make it OBVIOUS to EVERYONE just how petty and horrible the behavior is.
Right?
I mean, is it right to be told "Back of the bus" if it is 'probably' okay with you to sit there anyway? If your friend says, "It's okay-- we'll go for a better ride in my car later..."?
All I see gvmom's strategy as doing is offering passive resistance (hey-- [i]any[/i] resistance is an improvement compared to what most of us automatically do) to being designated as 'second class citizens' by virtue of your FA. She's just saying she intends to stop the enabling that provides the social veneer that makes such behavior 'okay' in most people's eyes. Because most of us recognize that no social veneer is [i]ever[/i] truly going to make it 'right' for our kids. My compensatory actions just make [i]other[/i] kids and parents more 'comfortable' with their exclusion of my daughter. It just teaches her that it is okay for other people to be ignorant, thoroughly thoughtless jerks toward her.... and that as long as they do it with a smile, she should wipe away her tears and smile right back, even if she is dying inside.
Not saying I am tough enough to do what gvmom proposes-- but I sure [i]wish[/i] I were. I might not have 'skipped' strings at the teacher's request so that the rest of the class could enjoy their PARTY celebrating their accomplishments. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img] I think the thing is that we try so hard to smooth things over in one way or another-- but all that incident did was make my daughter feel dismissed-- unimportant to anyone. And worse? That her feelings on the subject weren't even important [i]to ME.[/i] Bad, bad, bad mommy moment, smoothing that one over.

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 5:41am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

Sorry this is going to be long again. Apparently somebody has appointed themselves as post police and I don

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 5:56am
gvmom's picture
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Joined: 08/24/2005 - 09:00

[b]I am under no illusions regarding that-- and after gvmom's experiences over the past year, I doubt seriously that she is either... Nobody is saying that you can EVER 'mandate' that someone else 'care' about your child more.
I think what she is looking to accomplish is to make it OBVIOUS to EVERYONE just how petty and horrible the behavior is.
Right? [/b]
Right. Among other things.
[b]I mean, is it right to be told "Back of the bus" if it is 'probably' okay with you to sit there anyway? If your friend says, "It's okay-- we'll go for a better ride in my car later..."? [/b]
A-HA! Great example.
[b]All I see gvmom's strategy as doing is offering passive resistance (hey-- any resistance is an improvement compared to what most of us automatically do) to being designated as 'second class citizens' by virtue of your FA. She's just saying she intends to stop the enabling that provides the social veneer that makes such behavior 'okay' in most people's eyes. Because most of us recognize that no social veneer is ever truly going to make it 'right' for our kids. My compensatory actions just make other kids and parents more 'comfortable' with their exclusion of my daughter. It just teaches her that it is okay for other people to be ignorant, thoroughly thoughtless jerks toward her.... and that as long as they do it with a smile, she should wipe away her tears and smile right back, even if she is dying inside.[/b]
Yes.
And remember though too, it is passive resistance to something that treats my child, who IS designated with having a disability, as a second class citizen, and who HAS accommodations that are supposed to be enforced

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 7:05am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]I am under no illusions regarding [i]that[/i]-- and after gvmom's experiences over the past year, I doubt seriously that she is either... Nobody is saying that you can EVER 'mandate' that someone else 'care' about your child more.
I think what she is looking to accomplish is to make it OBVIOUS to EVERYONE just how petty and horrible the behavior is.
Right?
I mean, is it right to be told "Back of the bus" if it is 'probably' okay with you to sit there anyway? If your friend says, "It's okay-- we'll go for a better ride in my car later..."?
All I see gvmom's strategy as doing is offering passive resistance (hey-- [i]any[/i] resistance is an improvement compared to what most of us automatically do) to being designated as 'second class citizens' by virtue of your FA. She's just saying she intends to stop the enabling that provides the social veneer that makes such behavior 'okay' in most people's eyes. Because most of us recognize that no social veneer is [i]ever[/i] truly going to make it 'right' for our kids. My compensatory actions just make [i]other[/i] kids and parents more 'comfortable' with their exclusion of my daughter. It just teaches her that it is okay for other people to be ignorant, thoroughly thoughtless jerks toward her.... and that as long as they do it with a smile, she should wipe away her tears and smile right back, even if she is dying inside.
Not saying I am tough enough to do what gvmom proposes-- but I sure [i]wish[/i] I were. I might not have 'skipped' strings at the teacher's request so that the rest of the class could enjoy their PARTY celebrating their accomplishments. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img] I think the thing is that we try so hard to smooth things over in one way or another-- but all that incident did was make my daughter feel dismissed-- unimportant to anyone. And worse? That her feelings on the subject weren't even important [i]to ME.[/i] Bad, bad, bad mommy moment, smoothing that one over.
[/b]
I don't know if this is in response to the "you just can't force parents though" quote I posted, but it had nothing to do with gvmom, but a lot to do with the assumptions I've heard before (and continue to hear) from my counterparts in the educational system. It never has, and never will sit well with me. It's from the thread that is boiling over in Main right now. I swore I wasn't going over there, but I just couldn't let it go in light of *this* discussion. Read it and *then* tell me you don't understand how I feel.

Posted on: Tue, 08/14/2007 - 7:09am
kelly01's picture
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Joined: 03/19/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]
I mean, is it right to be told "Back of the bus" if it is 'probably' okay with you to sit there anyway? If your friend says, "It's okay-- we'll go for a better ride in my car later..."?
[/b]
I feel that comparing this to "back of the bus" is like apples to oranges. African Americans were told to go to the back of the bus, based solely on their skin color. My child declines a treat because 'he' knows it will make him sick...I don't see these two things as being equal.
Again, interesting discussion. I can see the thought process behind it...
Kelly

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