Epipen?

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I have never needed to give my daughter the Epipen. I actually chide (sp?) myself for not doing it once or twice, but now I'm wondering if I should have done it today too.

She had BOLOGNA of all things. She's only 5 -- I can't believe how well she communicated to me today. Had she not been so clear about her symptoms, maybe I would have given her the Epipen.

She first asked me if this was OUR bologna, because we had just come from a friends' house(also PA). Then kept on eating it, but eventually told me her tongue stings. I finally told her not to eat anymore. When we got home she threw up (as the school bus was pulling up). I gave her Benadryl and that was that -- except for an extra long nap and some funky looks later in the day because I think it knocked her out. By 430-500 (4-5 hours later) she said she felt fine.

This is her second reaction in a very short time. The other one happenned the day after she ate the food -- she ate Con Agra's Kid Cuisine with a little chocolate duck in it. I know they don't label well, but we were at a hotel and she's been doing so well and manufacturers are labeling better, so I bought it. She said her stomach hurt after she ate -- she had no idea I was questioning it. I sort of dismissed it. The next day she threw up violently and had diarrhea for a half-hour. Couldn't even take Benadryl, but everything was green. We were with inlaws, so of course they don't believe it was the food, but I know it was.

This is the same kid we were considering an oral challenge with last year. Now I'm thinking she's getting more sensitive. We have a different allergist now, so I think her numbers actually went up but I'm not sure because they use two different scales.

I'm sorry this is so long. I think the Epipen is going to have start to be a serious consideration for me now. I'm in denial. Only the PA mom and my husband REALLY believed me.

****So, should have I given the Epipen (that's the real point of the post -- don't want it lost in my babble).****

THANKS.

On Sep 24, 2004

apparently, according to our allergist, if u vomit during a rxn its less likeley to progress as quickly or as much ! cus ur bodys riddin' ur self of it!

------------------ webmaster of [url="http://www.goingnuts.cjb.net"]www.goingnuts.cjb.net[/url] *****ALLERGY PATROL*****

On Sep 24, 2004

Doreen,

You might do some reading about anaphylaxis. Do not listen to the above advice because it is dangerous and everyone reacts differently.

My son vomited after his first reaction and it closed off his entire airway except for a little squeak he could breathe thru, face as red as a beet and absolutely scared to death.

We had just gotten back from the hospital and had to use another epi pen and go back for another 5 hours and another round of medications.

I would suggest you read what FAAN has available on their site and then compare the symptoms to what your daughter experienced. Then take that knowledge and ask your allergist.

[url="http://www.foodallergy.org/"]http://www.foodallergy.org/[/url]

One thing that was very good was your daughter communicated to you that something was wrong. One big sign of anaphylaxis is a feeling of doom. I have seen it many times and trust it.

Good luck Peggy

On Sep 24, 2004

Doreen,

"This is not advice"

Our allergist told us that if ds's voice starts to sound differently, than give the Epi-Pen. This was given along with a number of other signs to look for, but was pointed to as a deffinate sign of airway restriction.

Brian and Cindy

On Sep 25, 2004

so-ree! i think he made a mistake there then... (it wasn't meant to be advice-just what ours told us!)

On Sep 25, 2004

During my dd reaction, as soon as she vomited she went downhill very quickly!

My thought was that the vomiting brought the offending agent back up through her airway and re-exposed her in a sense!

Not sure that makes sense, but I defintly noticed a worsening of symptoms after she threw up!

On Sep 26, 2004

Well, thank you, she said her tongue felt better after I gave her the Benadryl. I was a little worried later on in the day after her nap.

You know I've been reading this site for years, and the food allergy site (though maybe not as often as I should), but it's how you react when it happens that ultimately will count. I guess because she was so articulate and it was bologna not some baked item I figured it wasn't going to be as bad somehow.

I think your right Peg I need to talk to her allergist. We just moved to CT (well almost a year now) and I was very comfortable calling her old allergist, but it's been a long, long time since I've had a need to talk to anyone. And, the allergists here (DR ROSEN ON FAAN BOARD) are so busy -- they try to take the time but I think they are just so rushed. I don't like it, and I don't want to switch because we've been here such a short time. Anyway, that's what worried me that the tongue thing is the beginning of the throat closing and I never did think about the vomiting irritating as it came up but that could make sense too.

I think I'll post back after I here from her allergist. Thank you all.

On Sep 27, 2004

Good luck to you. Let us know what happens. Peg

On Sep 28, 2004

Peg, I do understand what happened to your son. However, there are doctors that do say inducing vomiting is [i]right[/i]. (I recall this conversation in the past on this board.)

Also, are you aware that k9ruby is a young person coming to this board to learn how to keep herself safe - and try to help others? Personally, I want to [b]encourage[/b] people like her to come here. I am [i]not[/i] saying to never disagree or correct her. Just keep in mind, she is a young person.

On Sep 28, 2004

thanx- its just thats what ours said (this IS NOT ADVICE) if appaerently u vomit then the TN come out, but looking at your experiences i bet theirs quite a few exceptions!!

On Sep 28, 2004

AnnaMarie,

If I see bad advice being given I am going to speak out against it.

I do not believe I said anything to deter K9Ruby from further writing.

And when have you ever seen me try to [b]discourage[/b] anyone from writing here?

Peggy

On Sep 29, 2004

Bad advice in [b]your[/b] opinion. There are others - including doctors - that agree with what k9ruby said. When it comes to allergies and reactions - we are all sooo very different. Your opinion and what is best (proven best even) for your son is not always what is best for someone else. Here is a link to a post about inducing vomiting. It is written by an adult who sounds intelligent and educated - and for her, she feels it is the right decision.

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum18/HTML/000110.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum18/HTML/000110.html[/url]

********

I didn't actually say you tried to discourage anyone from writing here. This is what I said "Personally, I want to [b]encourage[/b] people like her to come here."

Try speaking with [b]compassion[/b] instead of just saying "Do not listen to the above advice because it is dangerous and everyone reacts differently."

As you said - everyone reacts differently - and we need to hear all the options, all the reasons. Then we discuss them with our own doctors to figure out what is best for us.

Your opinions are very valid Peggy. I would have never thought about any risks with inducing vomiting if I hadn't read your post previously about your son. But, to decide what's best for [b]me[/b] I want to hear everyone's experiences and everyone's opinions. I take that information, along with what I know about myself, and I talk to my doctor. And, together, we decide what is the best course of action for [b]me[/b].

On Sep 29, 2004

I refuse to discuss my style of posting which has never been a problem before.

Think, do you really want to encourage some mother or father to force their child to vomit?

The poster in your example was an adult and used the word "purge" which seems to imply it was easy for her to vomit. I assure you it would be extremely frightening and dangerous for any parent to encourage a child to vomit. Especially a child trying to vomit up a serious allergen when the time could be better spent using the epi pen and calling 911.

Yes the epi pen is scary but it is a life saving device.

Just how do you do that anyway? Get a child to vomit?

I'm finished with this post and this place anyway so if you have any further problems with me you can take it up in my email.

On Sep 29, 2004

i never said it was instead of the the epi just that sometimes it gets some of it out of your system!

On Sep 29, 2004

In our own experience, DS had a life-threatening reaction which consisted of tingling mouth and throat, sense of doom, vomitting followed by loss of consciousness.

We gave the epi.

Katiee

On Oct 15, 2004

I remember when we took my son for his first ever appointment (finding out about his egg allergy, now also peanut) and we asked if we should induce vomitting.

Our allergist (one of the top)who has a peanut allergy told us about a time when he was in college. He had an anaphylactic reaction, gave himself the epipen and then took some syrup of Ipecac. His reaction completely resolved but he was stuck praying to the porcelin bowl for hours afterward!

On Oct 15, 2004

There is one big point that none of you have even thought to mention, esp as we have a young teenager here , is that if you are having an allergic reaction , and have to vomit, DO NOT GO TO THE BATHROOM ON YOUR OWN.

Sometimes allergic reactions mean your going to vomit, so what ever the doctors advice, the most important is not to be alone during a reaction.

sarah

On Oct 16, 2004

Quote:

DO NOT GO TO THE BATHROOM ON YOUR OWN.

I agree with u!

all i said if the allergic reaction makes you vomit then some of the allergen may come out as a result!

------------------ webmaster of [url="http://www.goingnuts.cjb.net"]www.goingnuts.cjb.net[/url] *****ALLERGY PATROL*****

On Oct 16, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by williamsmummy: [b]There is one big point that none of you have even thought to mention, esp as we have a young teenager here , is that if you are having an allergic reaction , and have to vomit, DO NOT GO TO THE BATHROOM ON YOUR OWN.

[/b]

aiy yi yiiiiiiiiiiiiii. I know. My oldest cubs kindergarten teacher sent him to the bathroom alone during a reaction. Because was vommitting among other signs and symptoms.([i]terror still[/i]). The clearly labelled food item in the room at meal time was missed, the children "sharing" was missed (after much pressure from one to the other), and failed to recognize what was happening. ([i]terror terror terror....[/i])

On Oct 16, 2004

Good point! My son has it in his 504 that if he is not feeling well for [b]whatever[/b] reason, someone is to accompany him to the nurses office, and bathroom on the way if need be.

On Oct 16, 2004

hmmm...

On Oct 16, 2004

Wow! I haven't been keeping up with this.

Peg, I hope you aren't going away. Thank you for your post, because I know that you were just trying to help and that honestly when I posted this I knew the answer in my heart anyway. I never called the allergist, because I knew his answer was I should have given the epi-pen, but I'm going to call tomorrow -- it's Dr. Rosen from FAAN. So I'll post what he says so you can all read it. My other allergist, affiliated with Mt. Sinai, would have said the same thing too. There are many who believe that the body is trying to get rid of the allergen with vomit, but I think Peg was just trying to tell me to avoid that wait and see attitude that has gotten many children into trouble (not mine, but best not to take the chance I think).

Katie, just curious, what happenned after the Epi?

On Oct 21, 2004

Dr. Rosen said that this did not necessarily need an epi, and it DOES NOT SOUND LIKE FOOD ALLERGY? CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? He wants me to come in so we can put the bologna up to her skin IN CASE there is a new allergy. I went to tell him about the other time I thought was a reaction here, and he said wait 'til I come in and he does not conduct office visits over the phone.

UGH! THAT'S why I wrote here initially now that I think about it. I am NOT comfortable with him. Now he is on the FAAN board, and this matches everything I have read from FAAN. Well, he said peanut is not in bologna. I guess I have to call the company after all. I guess I was avoiding that too. I think I said it before -- I am in total denial. There is just too much on my plate right now. I'll post what Russer says.

We moved a year ago now, and I am still not comfortable with our doctors here. It's totally a mess with three allergic kids and not a decent doctor. Of course he's supposed to be one of the best! Our old allergist was arrogant once in a while, but he would have never shut me up like that!

On Oct 21, 2004

Sorry, but I am re-raising, because I NEED opinions on my last post. I do not plan to take her in for some other stupid test. I am waiting until I hear back from the company or FAAN. I wrote them too, but who knows. Thanks.

On Oct 22, 2004

I think it is very hard to find a doctor who fits with my families needs. I actually have a harder time finding allergists. I also don't understand why almost every allergist, or pulmonary specialist that we have seen - is arrogant and not family friendly.

We have an excellent family doctor - He has a very good bedside manner and bends over backwards to make sure that I am satisfied with the answers. He also has been very good about saying -"I don't know, or I think we need a better answer. I'll call around to my friends and get other opinions, or I think you need to see the allergist." When we were first having problems with my oldest son's asthma (which we actually now think were "may contain" reactions) Where we had to go the emergancy room almost nightly- we if course had to explain the whole situation over again, My family doctor started having us page him, so he could meet us at the er so we didn't have to start all over with the er again. This is the same doctor that waited in my delivery room with us for 4 hours - because they cald him in and said I ws ready and I stopped having contractions. He would leave to check on other patients, but he just camped out with us until I was ready.

Sorry, I really got off topic ---- SO --- My feeling is that as long as I have one doctor who I really trust, I feel comfortable trying to find the right allergist, or pulmanry specialist. Really I only see those doctors about 2 times a year. And I can always bounce ideas off my family doctor. He is also on the look out for an allergist/pulmanry specialist - that meets our/his style also.

Good Luck - find a doctor that you feel comfortable with and fits your style. I would be upset if they wouldn't answer questions over the phone. I understatnd they want your (or your inurance) money. But they will eventually see you anyways. Better t ease your mind now.

As far as the bologna - have you tried it again. Maybe it was sme sort of reaction to food filler, or additives, mybe linked to the con agra meal also? I think it sounds like an allergic reaction - but I don't know if I would have used the epi-pen. Just because - If it wasn't an obvious Nut problem - it could be a new allergy. I would have tried the benedryl first and then observed in case it progressed - I would have had the epi ready, and places for the rest of the kids to go, and the husband called home from work. Just my thoughts.

On Oct 23, 2004

As far as the bologna - have you tried it again. Maybe it was sme sort of reaction to food filler, or additives, mybe linked to the con agra meal also? I think it sounds like an allergic reaction - but I don't know if I would have used the epi-pen. Just because - If it wasn't an obvious Nut problem - it could be a new allergy. I would have tried the benedryl first and then observed in case it progressed - I would have had the epi ready, and places for the rest of the kids to go, and the husband called home from work. Just my thoughts.[/B][/quote]

Jami,

I think you summed up all my thinking. I KNOW it was an allergic reaction. I had the epipen ready -- not the husband and the rest of the kids but well. I thought about that Con Agra meal and I also thought about the only other time she has vomited. It too was isolated, and I always wondered if it was the food she ate. I'm going to check those three packages to see if I can find a connection, and I'm awaiting Russer Foods' response about the bologna. FAAN did respond saying they could test the bologna, but my husband and son ate the rest so I just wrote the info down from the package. Still debating whether I'm going to make that allergist's appointment or not. THANK YOU JAMI!

On Oct 23, 2004

PS -- There is an article in the FAAN Nov 2004 newsletter about how dangerous inducting vomiting is in case any of you are interested. How ironic.

On Oct 24, 2004

FWIW, on 10/8/04, my allergist told us to use the Epi-Pen (Jr) for anything other than a very mild reaction around the mouth. He said something people touch things or inadvertantly eat something that is off limits and then spits it out, and they have a very mild reaction around the mouth...that would be the time to use Benadryl, but anything past that...hives on the rest of the body, vomiting, difficulty breathing, the Epi-Pen should be used and then followed by Benadryl and 911.

On Oct 29, 2004

I hope Peg and k9Ruby get a chance to read this post.

My 16 yr old dd had her first reaction in 12 years about a month ago. She had a bite of a cookie that contained a TN right before a volleyball match. Her mouth tingled, she asked her friends if they thought they tasted any nuts- they said no. She drank some water and started the game. Five minutes later she vomitted in the gym. Her coach and trainer believed she was over heated, so they put her in a cold bath. She was still not sure if she was having a reaction. She had her epi-pen but did not use it. She took benadryl and came home, by herself (yikes). She was fine in the end but many mistakes were made.

The cookies did have walnuts in them, and because she ended up OK with just bendaryl, we actually were breathing a sigh of relief thinking she may not die if she eats a TN after all. (we knew this may not be the case)

After reading the above posts about the vomitting I think it may have prevented her from going into a full blown reaction. She said she threw up a ton. So I thank you all for your opinions and information, you have possibly affected how my ds and I may act during a future reaction.

Jill

On Oct 30, 2004

Doreen, sorry I missed this post before.

A possible reason the bologna caused a reaction may have nothing to do with the bologna itself - it might have been cross contaminated with mortadella (contains pistachios) either in manufacture or on the deli slicer.

If this is the case, you may never know for sure [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] ! I have to say that if vomiting was her only symptom, I doubt I would have given the epi either (based on [b]my son's previous history[/b]). Since vomiting has never been one of his symptoms in the past, my first reaction to vomiting would be to suspect food poisoning, stomach bug, or just gross food.

Amy

On Oct 30, 2004

hmmmmmm. about vommitting. many of my oldest cub's reactions have involved almost immediate involuntary projectile vommitting. Sometimes, prolonged. I mean, aside from interventions not typically performed in the non-provider setting, [i]it's not like *we* had a choice of "to vomit" or "not to vomit".[/i]

On Oct 30, 2004

Jill, that's so scary that a 16 year old would be allowed to go home alone after vomiting. Even if it wasn't a reaction, but a child over-heating so seriously - she still shouldn't have been sent home alone.

Glad to hear she is fine though.

Regarding the cold bath: In my severe reactions my temperature soars. I have taken cold showers (prior to knowing that this was a sign I should be going to ER, I truly did not know the danger I was in some times). I also once sat on a balcony wearing shorts and a t-shirt and covered myself in snow. I have no idea if it slows down or lessens a reaction - but it sure did feel good.

On Oct 31, 2004

:URGHH: I HOPE YOUR DAUGHTER STAYS RXNN FREE!!!!

------------------ webmaster of [url="http://www.goingnuts.cjb.net"]www.goingnuts.cjb.net[/url] *****ALLERGY PATROL*****

On Feb 11, 2005

Just came back and noticed these latest posts. I never got an answer about the bologna from Tyson. I probably never will. Just for the record though, her throat/tongue was "stinging" too. Her allergist wasn't convinced it was a food reaction. I know it was based on her response, and the fact the Benadryl helped her. My son ate the same food and was fine. It is frustrating when you can't figure things out (and when they send your children home alone sick -- yikes!).

Thanks everyone. I've sort of moved on about this now, but her skin tests did raise ever so slightly on tree nuts, which tells me she is allergic, even though the allergist says no. She doesn't even react with the control -- they were as big as the control, and that's what he had said about peanuts.

ALSO, CARRY A SANDWICH BAGGIE WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES, SO YOU CAN KEEP THE FOOD IN QUESTION! PUT IT IN THE FREEZER IF NECESSARY. THE DOCTOR CAN DO A SKIN TEST WITH THE OFFENDING FOOD AND FAAN WILL TEST FOR NUT/PEANUT PROTEIN. NEXT TIME (HOPEFULLY THERE WON'T BE A NEXT TIME) I WILL BE PREPARED AND NOT DRIVING MYSELF CRAZY FOR MONTHS!

On Jul 10, 2005

My DD is 2 1/2 and has PA and EA. She eats Oscar Meyer Bologna which is made by Kraft and after calling them to check if the product is "safe" for my DD which is something I do quite frequently, I was told I could "trust" their label. She has not had any reactions to the bologna. Do I need to be concerned?

------------------ Kym Mom of 2 1/2 year old daughter with peanut and egg allergies

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