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Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:23am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]Eric, Premier Mike Harris?????
Try Ernie Eeves. (sp?) You are so [i]last year[/i][/b]
Hi Anna Marie,
I just mentioned Mike Harris, because he was the one who said [b]nurses are as obsolete as hula hoops[/b] (Premier Ernie Eves never said that). Although I should have said "former premier Harris"). [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
yes.. our current premier is named "Ernie" (but his finance minister is not named Bert!)

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:26am
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Anne Marie - Ernie Eves does not swing as far to the right as Mike Harris, but his party is certainly trying to force him into lockstep with Mike Harris's reviled policies. Ernie is a "pink" conservative who seems uncomfortable assuming the hardline Harris mantle.
Hurry up election time... Carolyn sang... Hurry up election time... Ernie may be pink but he's Tory enough to scare me anyhow... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Carolyn

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:31am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]This link might help arachide (tho US specific) and is interesting:
[b]Drafting and Revising School Policies[/b]
[url="http://schoolhealth.org/trnthtrn/section3/sect3a.html"]http://schoolhealth.org/trnthtrn/section3/sect3a.html[/url]
It points to authorities and "enforcers".
Gail
[/b]
Didn't want this to get lost in the political debate.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Any comments?

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:39am
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Ya.
It feels suspiciously like "Dodge Ball".
Again.
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:47am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] The Catholic schools are still Catholic. However, the Protestant schools are now "public schools" and there is no religious instruction of any type that takes place in them.
[/b]
Protestant. (ie: all [i]other[/i] "Christian Religions"?)
Catholic.
All "Christian Religions" right???
So how did "Catholic" get it's [b]own[/b] school board??
Let alone now you tell me "Protestant" is now [i]considered[/i] "Public School"???
ie: No Religion??
How is this "equal"?
Again, aside from the fact a goverment some consider so progressive appears to fund certain "religions" with tax dollars.
Carolyn,
Many thanks for your personal insight into the "plethora". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Eric,
You were saying? Re: "Gay and Lesbian" rights issues in schools?
Gail,
Trying to "center" to address your question. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:52am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Didn't want this to get lost in the political debate.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Any comments?
[/b]
[b]ooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.[/b]
I'M GONNA READ THIS ONE.

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 1:53am
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Gail! Thanks, I saw the link! I'll have a chance to look at it after lunch [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I'll comment later.
(ho boy, things are cranking up!)

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:01am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]
If a school has a nurse and also has 2 special needs children (lets just use anaphylactic as both examples) and 1 of those students is going on a field trip, does the nurse go or stay? If the nurse is the only one in the school who can administer epi, what should be done? At my son's school there are multiple people trained. My son's teacher is about to be.[/b]
I posted in another thread:
"you mentioned the links I posted.
several were the "Positions Statements" by the National Association of School Nurses.
What do they indicate about school nurses, training, and administration of epinephrine in schools? Specifically, who administers ?
Link to "Managing Life Threatening Food Allergies in Schools":
[url="http://www.doe.mass.edu/cnp/2002/news/allergy.pdf"]http://www.doe.mass.edu/cnp/2002/news/allergy.pdf[/url]
Stated in this document:
page 3
"Every school building with a student at risk for anaphylaxis should have a full time school nurse."
page 7-8
"For those students at risk for food-induced anaphylaxis, the most important aspect of the management in the school setting should be prevention. [b]In the event of an anaphylactic reaction, epinephrine is the treatement of choice and should be given immediately. This shall require the training of unlicensed personnel, if nursing staff cannot be available immediately. Studies show that fatalities are frequently associated with not using epinephrine or delaying the use of epinephrine treatment.[/b]"
page 5
[b]"Each school district/school that plans to have the school nurse train unlicensed personnel to administer epinephrine by auto-injector to students with life-threatening allergic condition must register with MA Department of Public Health consistent with 105 CMR 210.000"[/b]
page 4
"The school should have a policy and protocol for the management of anaphylaxis in individuals with unknown allergies. This should include a protocol signed by the school physician authorizing administration of epinephrine by the school nurse.
(Note: Since this process requires an assessment, only a registered nurse may administer the epinephrine to an individual with undiagnosed allergies.)"
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the link(s) in this post. My post not intended as advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:03am
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Quote:Originally posted by Cayley's Mom:
[b]Last year a gay Catholic student in Toronto wanted to bring his boyfriend to the prom. Homosexuality is contrary to Catholic teachings, but discrimination on the basis of sexual preference is illegal [/b]
The courts ruled that the gay student had the same rights as the other students so he was permitted to bring his boyfriend to the prom and he did. (it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation)
The Canadian constitution stated the Catholics had the right to their own schools so this right is enshrined in the constitution.
The public (formerly Protestant) schools have no religious instruction are are attended by students of all cultures and religions.
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 28, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:03am
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]
(ho boy, things are cranking up!)[/b]
[i]Sounds like "Dodge Ball" to me.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:08am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] Protestant. (ie: all [i]other[/i] "Christian Religions"?)
Catholic.
All "Christian Religions" right???
So how did "Catholic" get it's own school board??
Let alone now you tell me "Protestant" is now [i]considered[/i] "Public School"???
ie: No Religion??
How is this "equal"?
[/b]
Sometimes we are stuck with things that may not be equal (why do the Catholics get their own schools, but no one else does??). But it is hard to change the constitution when an institution has been in place since the constitution was written up.
Kind of similar to the US Electoral College. Al Gore won more votes than George Bush, yet he lost the election due to that constitutional feature called the US Electoral College.
(my personal opinion is we should only have one publicly funded school system for all students) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 28, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:13am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
Kind of similar to the US Electoral College. Al Gore won more votes that George Bush, yet he lost the election due to that constitutional feature called the US Electoral College.
[/b]
I thought this was a [i]Florida Chad[/i] issue.
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:23am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
The public (formerly Protestant) schools have no religious instruction are are attended by students of all cultures and religions.
[/b]
It should be noted that many Protestant and other religions, even non-religious types, attend Catholic schools. Yes, they must take "religion" as a required course, but they do not have to be Catholic to attend or even to teach there. It is my understanding that these rules have tightened up a little bit recently (forcing *some* teachers in the system to convert to the Catholic religion in order to keep their jobs). It's tightened up because a TONNE of students were attending Catholic schools who were not Catholic - and they were building portable classrooms at a phemoninal rate to keep up. Is it a better system? I don't know - we attend public schools - but the Catholic system is very in demand by all groups, Catholic aside. "Religion" is a fairly minor course and is considered an "easy credit" - the emphasis in the Catholic school board is not as much on religion as one might think.
Interesting, huh?
Carolyn [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:34am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b] If a school has a nurse and also has 2 special needs children (lets just use anaphylactic as both examples) and 1 of those students is going on a field trip, does the nurse go or stay? If the nurse is the only one in the school who can administer epi, what should be done? At my son's school there are multiple people trained. My son's teacher is about to be.[/b]
This occurs regularly at my school. We have 4 children w/ anaphylaxis to food, a child w/ seisure disorder, and several other chronic health needs in our school of 335 students (K-5).
The school nurse is authorized to train school staff (e.g. all dd's teachers) in administering the epi and documents this training. If the nurse or dd's teacher believe that it would be beneficial for a school nurse to attend a field trip, then the school nurse arranges for a substitute (school nurse) to cover the time away from the building. [b]There is always a nurse at our school[/b]. Similar to a teacher, a substitute is called in whenever she is not at the school. (All staff meetings and district nurses meetings are scheduled after school hours.)
Since all staff were required to attend "a professional development" (physician lecture on PA and instuction on epi-pen) as well as [b]individual[/b] documented training, I feel comfortable that there are ample school staff who would administer her epi if needed.
Gail

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 2:49am
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wondering what MommaBear thinks about this:
[url="http://schoolhealth.org/EmergencyGuidelinesforSchools.pdf"]http://schoolhealth.org/EmergencyGuidelinesforSchools.pdf[/url]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:03am
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Anonymous (not verified)

Gail and MommaBear, Thank you both for answering my hypothetical situation. I do actually worry (apparently unnecessarily) that procedures and protocols can end up being so straight and narrow that a change in routine throws a wrench in the system. I'm glad to hear it doesn't. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
As for the Catholic and public schools - last year when I was registering my son for JK I refused to register him in the public school near me. I was going to home school, but decided to give the Catholic school a try. To register him I needed to supply either a copy of my own Catholic Baptismal Certificate or his. Since he's not being raised Catholic I had to contact the church I was baptised in to get a copy of mine. Since we moved during the summer, I decided to try the public school here, and we're quite happy with it.
As for *no religion* in public school, that's not exactly accurate at my son's school. They are not taught in the *this is the right religion* sense, but my son is being taught about lots of religions. They learn about Christmas (including Jesus, not just Santa). But they also learn about other holidays (such as Jewish holidays). The teacher has included all holidays that she knows any of her students celebrate, and possibly a few more. It is (and I agree with this) the responsibility of the parents to teach their child their own beliefs, but the school teaching about lots of beliefs also teaches tolerance.
To explain why Canada has two major school systems would require a really long history lesson. (Then, of course, we'd have to include the Indian Treaties and all our east coast fishing problems.)

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:15am
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Does the Catholic School Board also receive monetary benefit from the religious organization per se, as well as tax dollars?

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:30am
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To attend a Catholic school, the student's baptismal certification (from a Catholic church) must be shown. The student does not have to participate in the sacraments but s/he must be baptised in a catholic church.
No money from religious organizations are given to the schools.
The emphasis in the Catholic School Board has MUCH to do with religion as one might think.
Religion as an "easy credit" could be debated by students struggling to pass the course!!

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:35am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]wondering what MommaBear thinks about this:
[url="http://schoolhealth.org/EmergencyGuidelinesforSchools.pdf"]http://schoolhealth.org/EmergencyGuidelinesforSchools.pdf[/url] [/b]
Side note:
I had to go to this page:
[url="http://schoolhealth.org/index.html"]http://schoolhealth.org/index.html[/url]
and click on " Emergency Guidelines for Schools" (Left hand insert) to get to the link.
Is it the same link?
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:37am
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It looks like there is some real capitalism occurring in Ontario, Canada. Five thousand dollars a pound for the good Canadian stuff? What's the world coming to? (lol):
Canada rolling in high-grade pot
by Dave Wedge
Wednesday, May 28, 2003
A hijacked truck found on the Massachusetts Turnpike hauling $3 million of super-powered homegrown marijuana is just the tip of the iceberg of high grade ``hydro'' weed slipping across the Canadian border and into the Bay State, officials say.
``They're masking it in legitimate loads (of merchandise) and it's destined for New England,'' said Sgt. John Brooks of the state police narcotics inspection unit.
State cops over the weekend found more than 600 pounds of hydroponically grown pot in a tractor-trailer that crashed in the woods after three armed pirates tried to hijack the rig. The truckers, 25-year-old Harpreet Chahal and 31-year-old Harjiven Cheema, both of Ontario, were charged with drug trafficking after the Friday night highway drama.
Police say the pair, both natives of India with valid Ontario driver's licenses and Canadian work visas, fought off the masked thieves who commandeered the truck at gunpoint on the Pike westbound near Exit 12. During the melee, the truck rumbled off the road and slammed into trees in the woods.
Witnesses told cops they saw masked gunmen run from the wreck and hop into a white van that sped off. The hijackers, who were still at large last night, spoke Chinese, Chahal told police.
According to their lawyer, Geoffrey G. Nathan, Chahal and Cheema didn't know there were drugs in the trailer. Both were ordered held on $150,000 cash bail after their arraignment yesterday in Framingham District Court.
Police say the pair drove the pot-packed rig from Toronto and were supposedly en route to North Carolina to deliver a load of industrial paper rolls for Ontario Inc., a trucking company.
Ontario Inc. officials told police the pair had no business in Massachusetts. When asked why they were in the Boston area, Cheema and Chahal told investigators they were ``lost,'' Trooper Paul Belanger said.
The ``Canadian hydro,'' which was being smuggled in boxes and trash bags, is grown using high-powered lighting in specially equipped warehouses in Canada, Brooks said.
The technique maximizes the potency of the cannabis plant's buds and increases the level of THC - marijuana's active ingredient. While organically grown marijuana imported from Mexico sells for between $1,000 and $2,000 per pound, the Canadian strain fetches $5,000 a pound on the streets.
``It's much more potent than the Mexican stuff. It's of a very high-grade,'' Brooks said.
In addition to this weekend's bust, state cops have seized two other Canadian truckloads of weed recently, including one stashed in a load of furniture, Brooks said.
Besides funneling industrial grown Canadian pot into the region, some dealers are flying their drugs to Canada and then driving it over the northern border, rather than risk losing it at the historically tighter Mexican border.
``We've seen it a lot lately,'' Brooks said.
But U.S. Customs officials say the border is being tightened daily, especially since the Sept. 11 terror attacks. More high-tech monitoring equipment is in use and staffing has been increased, which has allowed for stricter scrutiny and more vehicle searches.
``The Canadian and American governments have been working very closely to heighten security at that border,'' said Customs spokesman James Michie. ``It's getting better and better every day.''
Federal officials have hinted at a further clampdown as Canadian authorities take steps to decriminalize marijuana. A bill pending in the Canadian legislature would fine people for pot possession and reduce criminal penalties against those growing up to 25 marijuana plants.

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:38am
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Quote:Originally posted by Codyman:
[b]To attend a Catholic school, the student's baptismal certification (from a Catholic church) must be shown. The student does not have to participate in the sacraments but s/he must be baptised in a catholic church.
[/b]
Would not being "baptised in a catholic church" be "participating in a sacrament"??

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:39am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b] It is (and I agree with this) the responsibility of the parents to teach their child their own beliefs, but the school teaching about lots of beliefs also teaches tolerance.
[/b]
To that I say, Amen sister! How coincidental that I just posted a link this morning on a Canadian parenting site I post at, in response to the "Christmas in Schools" issue.
[url="http://www.tolerance.org/teach/printar.jsp?p=0&ar=391&pi=apg"]http://www.tolerance.org/teach/printar.jsp?p=0&ar=391&pi=apg[/url]
MommaBear - to answer your question about funding from Catholic churches to the school board, I don't think so... but I'm not sure. I'll get back to you on it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Carolyn

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:43am
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Codyman - My Protestant cousin would beg to differ with you on the "easy credit" thing, but she's not here to debate, so I offered her opinion instead on her behalf. Also, my Protestant mom taught for 15 years at a Catholic church (she's now retired). On the other hand, a friend of mine just had to convert [i]last year[/i] after teaching in the Catholic system for 10 years. Attending a Catholic school, for a person of a different religion, does have very little to do with religion.
Carolyn

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 3:45am
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Gail, I just read over the link.
{{{kiss}}} Thanks! What a great resource for me to use for the allergy committee! Love the summary slides and checklists!
I do have 2 comments:
1. I noted the absence of any referral to parent involvement for policy drafting or participation in the school health council.
(Our allergy commmittee could be seen as operating as a kind of school health council --but other than the district nurse, neither I nor my 3 other committee colleagues have any medical credentials)
2. I didn't see any enforcement points... did I miss them somewhere?

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 4:09am
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I've just created an Off Topic DEBATE THREAD so we can try to keep this debate thread on track with PA-related issues.
Can we move the marijuana and school board and political debates over there? What do you think?
The political debate started out related to PA - why don't we have nurses to watch our PA kids in schools - then veered... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Carolyn

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 4:17am
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LOL, you know, I was about to post that for any newcomers to this thread, the topic in question was:
[b][list][*]The Role of the School Nurse in PA Management: The Varying Capitalist - Socialist Perspective, as Well as The Potential Impact of Denominational SchoolBoards and Marijuana Legalization.[/b][/*:m][/list:u]
Thanks Carolyn.
edited for fun
[This message has been edited by arachide (edited May 28, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 4:17am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Does the Catholic School Board also receive monetary benefit from the religious organization per se, as well as tax dollars?
[/b]
This is highly unlikely. The Catholic church tends to keep monies separate.
Which, btw, is what they used to be called. The Separate School Board. I'm not sure when they actually changed to The Catholic School Board.

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 4:21am
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LOL arachide! Let's each write a paper on that and then compare notes when we do lunch on the 7th! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
C. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
P.S. The scary thing is, I not only COULD write a paper on that - I'd ENJOY writing a paper on that...

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 4:27am
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choguy - I posted the above marijuana article in the Off Topic debate thread. Please let me know if that's OK, because I'll delete it if you want. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I want to be sure I used and commented on it in the proper context.
Carolyn

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 5:46am
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]Gail, I just read over the link.
{{{kiss}}} Thanks! What a great resource for me to use for the allergy committee! Love the summary slides and checklists! [/b]
You're welcome. I like this link too. I hope you keep us posted on your progress as we all have an opportunity to learn lots from your experience.
[b] "1. I noted the absence of any referral to parent involvement for policy drafting or participation in the school health council.
(Our allergy commmittee could be seen as operating as a kind of school health council --but other than the district nurse, neither I nor my 3 other committee colleagues have any medical credentials)" [/b]
Re parent involvement: Parents [i]can [/i] get involved at their own initiative. School Board meetings are open to the public, and our school board members are elected in our local elections... We also can communicate with our state representatives regarding any legislation we believe is needed (e.g. EMTs carrying epi).
Re medical credentials: I would be looking for physician and attorney consultation... I hope your nurse (or Anaphylaxis Canada) has some ideas about potential resources for this. (Our district has both available for staff use...)
[b] "2. I didn't see any enforcement points... did I miss them somewhere?"[/b]
There are so many legal references made: "federal, state and local laws" as well as participation of "attorneys", not to mention the state "board of education", "department of health", "federal agencies" and "Congress". Our education and healthcare systems are highly regulated. These are the types of "high up" "bottom lines" to which I believe MommmaBear is referring. I hope your nurse will help you identify similar Canadian "bottom lines" that would apply to you.
Gail

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 5:58am
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The 'separate' school board was actually called "The Roman Catholic Separate School Board", then a few years ago when all school boards became 'district school boards' the name changed to "The ________ District Catholic School Board".

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 6:30am
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Gail, I guess by "enforcement" I was expecting to see some kind of "penalty" system outlined for violations to PPP. Obviously all those state and legal factions are terrific weight to have behind you!
I think I will start a new thread in the School forum entitled something like "School Allergy Committee" and just post all my stuff about the committee there --right now everything's scattered everywhere.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 8:04am
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]LOL, you know, I was about to post that for any newcomers to this thread, the topic in question was:
[list][*]The Role of the School Nurse in PA Management: The Varying Capitalist - Socialist Perspective, as Well as The Potential Impact of Denominational SchoolBoards and Marijuana Legalization.[/*:m][/list:u]
[/b]
Hi Arachide,
I thought we were talking about the benefits of restricting peanuts from the classroom in order to keep our PA children safe, and how this was a realistic option in Canada (peanut bans), but not a realistic option in the USA due to the liability issue? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Restricting peanuts from a classroom should reduce the probability of a reaction, as the less possible exposure to the allergen, the less likely the reaction. Even in classroms where this has not be totally successful (ie: Cindy Spowart Cook),. most of the infractions have been 'may contain' products, which I would not even consider to be a thread to the PA child (unless he was to eat them but even in a classroom with a peanut ban, the PA child should be educated not to eat anyone else's food).
I agree that we need PPP in place as well to ensure that the peanut ban has procedures in place to ensure it is successful and that there are policies in place to be followed to ensure a safe environment [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 28, 2003).]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 11:47pm
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Hi Arachide,
I thought we were talking about the benefits of restricting peanuts from the classroom in order to keep our PA children safe, and how this was a realistic option in Canada (peanut bans), but not a realistic option in the USA due to the liability issue? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
Hi erik (you right-wing leaner),
I was making a joke, sorry for the inaccuracy... but thanks for pulling the thread back on track [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
BTW, I'm not convinced that liability is not an issue in Canada. Again I make the point of schools removing "peanut-free" from their descriptions. Why are they doing it? Because of legal (ergo liability) issues, [i]n'est-ce pas?[/i]

Posted on: Wed, 05/28/2003 - 11:56pm
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b] Hi erik (you right-wing leaner),
I was making a joke, sorry for the inaccuracy... but thanks for pulling the thread back on track [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
Hi Arachide,
Oh, you don't need to say sorry.. I got the joke [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] I just thought I'd throw in the original topic too. It is ok that the thread has veered.. the school nurse, liability, etc issues are all related and I don't mind when the thread veers as it helps to discuss other topics as well that relate to each other.
But I believe you are correct. The reason a school would remove the "peanut-free" term probably is due to the fact they are worried that someone could think it means it is 100% peanut-free. I can't think of any other reason that they would remove that term.
But I think we can still ban peanuts from classrooms even without using the peanut-free term as the Canadian courts have said the school must take reasonable precautions but are not liable should something happen. Just as Carolyn posted earlier about the child injured moving the piano, the incident when the large rock rolled onto a student, etc. Take reasonable precautions, and the courts in Canada will not hold you liable.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
p.s. right wing leaner? haha.. everyone at this site must lean quite far left as I am surprised I am the most right wing person to take Carolyn's quiz.. in fact, it is very surprising (do conservatives not get peanut allergies???)
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:21am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Just as Carolyn posted earlier about the child injured moving the piano, the incident when the large rock rolled onto a student, etc. Take reasonable precautions, and the courts in Canada will not hold you liable.
[/b]
I still see a rather large difference between the boulder and the piano. And it ain't the size of the rock. Do you? (as no one ever answered my previous query. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:26am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] I still see a rather large difference between the boulder and the piano. And it ain't the size of the rock. Do you? (as no one ever answered my previous query. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
Yes... there is quite a difference ... a boulder is a large inanimate object found in nature, and a piano is a man-made instrument for creating music. (Disclaimer: I am just joking.. hehe)
No, I do get your point. The boulder incident is more due to an unforseen accident, while the piano incident was due to the child doing an action for which adukts should have been involved (teachers, custodians, etc).
I don't remember what query was never answered.. although I most likely decided to let Cayley's Mom or Anna Marie answer it since they are more knowlledgable and qualified than me as they have children in the school system, and my experience in the public school system is quite out of date (1980s)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:30am
arachide's picture
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Joined: 08/16/2000 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] I still see a rather large difference between the boulder and the piano. And it ain't the size of the rock. Do you? (as no one ever answered my previous query. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
So, the boulder was an "act of God" incident --no way to prevent that. But the piano, well, students shouldn't be allowed to move heavy furniture (a risk!) and this rule could be placed in PPP.
Peanuts in school are not an "act of God" therefore controllable and subject to regulation.
Did I "get" it MB? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:32am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Hi Arachide,
I thought we were talking about the benefits of restricting peanuts from the classroom in order to keep our PA children safe, and how this was a realistic option in Canada (peanut bans), but not a realistic option in the USA due to the liability issue? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/b]
[b]I[/b] thought we were talking about the various incidences of "lip-service" in a sociological setting (ie: pacification?) and possible legal consequences thereof being prohibitive, under certain circumstances, to practical application.
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely wondering aloud.

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:32am
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Hi MB - yes, there is definitely a difference in those cases. But my point was there is no difference in the inherent risks we take when we kiss our child goodbye in the morning and leave them in the care of others.
Btw, to add a bit more to the piano story - the boy's father was the principal of the school and he was moving the piano and he told his son not to help but the boy "got in the way". Cayley's paediatrician was called away from her VCUG procedure to work on the boy when he was rushed to the hospital, so I got the inside story a few weeks later. In this sense, it was an accident - they would have basically had to tie the boy up to keep him away from that piano apparently and unfortunately. The father/principal was beside himself, naturally, but the boy, even with a fractured skull, make a full recovery.
But again, my point was that anything could happen to our children.
Carolyn [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:34am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]
Peanuts in school are not an "act of God" therefore controllable and subject to regulation.
[/b]
Peanuts are man-made? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:37am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Yes... there is quite a difference ... a boulder is a large inanimate object found in nature, and a piano is a man-made instrument for creating music. (Disclaimer: I am just joking.. hehe)
No, I do get your point. The boulder incident is more due to an unforseen accident, while the piano incident was due to the child doing an action for which adukts should have been involved (teachers, custodians, etc).
I don't remember what query was never answered.. although I most likely decided to let Cayley's Mom or Anna Marie answer it since they are more knowlledgable and qualified than me as they have children in the school system, and my experience in the public school system is quite out of date (1980s)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[/b]
"HALLELUJAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH!
[url="http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live"]http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely humming to myself

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:38am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]
So, the boulder was an "act of God" incident --no way to prevent that. But the piano, well, students shouldn't be allowed to move heavy furniture (a risk!) and this rule could be placed in PPP.
Peanuts in school are not an "act of God" therefore controllable and subject to regulation.
Did I "get" it MB? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
Originaly posted by MommaBear:
"HALLELUJAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH!
[url="http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live"]http://members.aol.com/nonstopny/easter/messiah.htm#hear%20it%20live[/url]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely humming to myself

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:40am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

[b]STEREO!!!!![/b]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:40am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Cayley's Mom:
[b]But again, my point was that anything could happen to our children.
[/b]
That's true.. we could have PPPs til the cows come home, but we could never eliminate all risk. There is always risk in life.
In fact, I think most people with PA have a higher chance of dying in a car accident than they do of dying of PA.
And restricting peanuts from classrooms will reduce the risk in my opinion. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
"HALLELUJAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH!
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:44am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b]
Peanuts in school are not an "act of God" therefore controllable and subject to regulation.
Did I "get" it MB? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
[i]reasonable[/i] regulation?
if so.............
Could [i]reasonable[/i] be defined as something that is [b]realistically achievable, defineable, measureable, and enforceable[/b]?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited May 29, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:51am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[B
Could [i]reasonable[/i] be defined as something that is [b]realistically achievable, defineable, measureable, and enforceable[/b]?[/B]
Yes, create policies and procedures to ensure peanuts are kept out of the classroom. Many Ontario schools have these policies and though they may not always work as well as is to be hoped, keeping peanut butter sandwiches out of classrooms does reduce the risk [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 12:52am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
And restricting peanuts from classrooms will reduce the risk in my opinion. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
"HALLELUJAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HAAAAAAAAAAALEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEL-LU-JAH!
HA-LEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEL-LUUUUUUUUUUU-JAH!
[/b]
ok, song bird. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
But your not the one bearing the legal burden by the application of the label?
If it were you, would you want (possibly need) PPP and/or SOC in place by which to "enable" such a lable?
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 1:01am
Gail W's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/06/2001 - 09:00

I just wanted to say I'm reading all this...concur w/ MommaBear, and commend you all for hanging in and discussing this issue to (what I believe) is the natural, logical path.
Note: when I was employed at a university as a health educator, we regularly consulted with the university's [b]"Office of Risk Management"[/b] ---the legal department. I believe MommaBear's piano vs. boulder is absolutely on point.

Posted on: Thu, 05/29/2003 - 1:06am
MommaBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Yes, create policies and procedures to ensure peanuts are kept out of the classroom. Many Ontario schools have these policies and though they may not always work as well as is to be hoped, keeping peanut butter sandwiches out of classrooms does reduce the risk [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/b]
I see a difference between "Peanut-Free/Ban" and the elimination of Peanut butter sand[i]witches[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Although, elimination of PB sands fromt he school menu IS a grand beginning, IMPO. Is it easier for the school to eliminate PB from it's menu than [b][i]control[/i][/b] PB from being [i]brought in[/i]?
Easy-ness aside, do you feel it is possible to develop a realistically achievable, defineable, measureable, enforceable PPP to reasonably [b][i]control[/i][/b] PB (not provided by school) from classroom/school?
IE: setting up a spectrum here..........
as opposed to eliminating "May Contains" for example, comming in school from home?
Disclaimer, I am not offering advice in any manner or form.
edit to add disclaimer, and clarify "it".
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited May 29, 2003).]

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