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Posted on: Sun, 07/20/2003 - 7:56pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Apparently this thread has somehow missed my detection lately. Go figure [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Gail, actually, no I haven't been thinking about my past offer. As you may (or may not) know, my son who's in school does not have any food allergies (just bugs). I was offering to try to set something up if the pa parents wanted it, but, at the time none seemed interested.
Raised to further some discussion with Cindy. I hope you understand, I'm moving here to avoid upsetting people by go off topic. Not sure it's actually going to be a debate though, more that I'm looking for clarification.
Alt to M said in another thread:
[b]Anna Marie, in referencing the TDSB policy, no PA students do not have the *right* to a "peanut free" school. However, they do have a *right* to a "peanut free" classroom.
The same as with your previous posts:-
A "milk free" classroom
A "chicken free" classroom
A "red dye free" classroom
Throughout the province of Ontario, whether a school goes "peanut free" (that would also include "peanut safe", "reduce the risk") is entirely up to the principal of the school (and I'm sure that principal in consultation with the school board and the superintendent in charge of health *issues*).
I truly believe that "peanut free" classrooms and schools are more common because it has only been documented that PA children have DIED in school.So, I think that's why "peanut free" is more common and more heard about than say "milk free".
Question #1: Where does it say in Ontario that students have a right to an allergen free classroom? (I'm assuming not TDSB document because you are talking about the whole province.)
Question #2: Where does this info come from [b] Also, the thing with peanut residue and it's lifespan (i.e., six months on a surface that HAS been cleaned). [/b]
I am asking these questions because I truly want to know. Seems silly to have to say this, but there are no ulterior motives.

Posted on: Sun, 07/20/2003 - 11:15pm
tando's picture
Joined: 06/13/2003 - 09:00

Thanks for raising.
On your point of the drowning child in the river, I think you've missed a key link in the logic of your legality question. Responsibility. Is the the "adult" who fails to save the child the lifeguard? Is the child otherwise in the adult's charge? Is this a mere bystander?
What are the conditions of the river? Is it storm swollen? Is there a fast current or undertow? Or is this a designated swimming area?
All of these circumstances would impact the question. Also, I think more physical skill and risk are involved in leaping into a river to save a child than injecting an epipen or changing a menu and food preparation SOPs.
Having said that, I wasn't arguing for mandates or legislation in the other thread. I was simply stating that in the "higher" (morally, ethically, socially, coompassionate, whatever higher would mean) society, people would be internally driven to accommodate others needs.
To answer your question, will I go out on a limb and say this society doesn't exist now? As a whole, no, this isn't the society I live in -- but there are many individuals in our society that are this way, at least some of the time.

Posted on: Sun, 07/20/2003 - 11:31pm
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Thank you for replying. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I guess (with regards to "responsibility") it may depend on what you are employed to do.
Chances are, you might be surprised to learn what people can are entitled to refuse. Based on Moral/Ethical principles even. Many times, this is [i]for the protection[/i] of the protectee.
Would you say that such refusal can be instrumental in developing PPP and SoP?
[i]free association at work here:[/i] Would you say "designated swimming areas" with lifeguard(s)have a higher level of "responsibility" (moral/ethical issues aside) than those that don't?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
? "responsibility" = "duty" ?

Posted on: Sun, 07/20/2003 - 11:56pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Hope this isn't a private discussion.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]I guess (with regards to "responsibility") it may depend on what you are employed to do.
Chances are, you might be surprised to learn what people can are entitled to refuse. Based on Moral/Ethical principles even. Many times, this is [i]for the protection[/i] of the protectee.[/b]
[i]Sounds familiar![/i] Actually, I wouldn't be surprised. Discussions with my son regarding responsibilities due to his training. [i]This comment actually is on topic[/i]. Previously there was a thread regarding whether or not ambulances or fire trucks had epi-pens. In my city ambulances - yes; fire trucks -no. Why? Because all though fire trucks may be the first to answer a 911 call [b]they are not trained to diagnose anaphylactic reactions[/b] so they cannot give epinephrine. Therefore, for the protection of the protectee, they can refuse to administer an epi-pen.
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Would you say that such refusal can be instrumental in developing PPP and SoP?[/b]
Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b][i]free association at work here:[/i] Would you say "designated swimming areas" with lifeguard(s)have a higher level of "responsibility" (moral/ethical issues aside) than those that don't?

Posted on: Mon, 07/21/2003 - 12:17am
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]Hope this isn't a private discussion.
[i]Not at all.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
As long as you are prepared to buy a round. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 07/21/2003 - 12:25am
tando's picture
Joined: 06/13/2003 - 09:00

Yes, people have the right to refuse. And the injured party may refuse help (there's been some discussion of this in other threads, too).
The original thread was about the moral, ethical, social issues and the direction society may or may not evolve -- I find myself now off track. I'm going to stop here and retrace my steps.
I'll continue discussing the original thread if there's interest. ("Morals" thread)

Posted on: Sat, 12/06/2003 - 1:45am
MommaBear's picture
Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

reraising to compliment a thread in Media.


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