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Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 9:16am
patsmommy's picture
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Quote:
I feel obliged to inform you (from experience) that a "parent's desires" only go so far with the school! It's hard to explain, but parents will give up a lot of control when the school establishes protocals. It feels very scary to relinquish decisions (about your child) to the school...let alone when it is not an outcome you would have chosen. I definitely did not want to give up any control or decision making regarding my daughter... but I learned that school policy making is not made with the parent's satisfaction as the sole determinant.
This is the "greater good" that MommaBear has made reference to. It is the "erring on the side of caution". At times I've tried to fight it with the firm (and respectful) opposition of my school nurse. She sticks to PPP. No exceptions. When I didn't like that Mariah sat on the bus by herself because the nurse maintains that her seat needs cleaning, I wanted to [i] relax the protocals [/i]. No way, according to my nurse, we stick to the protocals and find another way to fix it (we did).
So... a parent definitely doesn't always get their [b] desired [/b] cirumstances in the process of establishing standards. But in the end, it really is okay. For parents of children with PA this can be an especially hard concept because we have trained ourselves to become immersed in the details of label reading, etc and [b]controling [/b] what we can to keep our kid safe. Having the ultimate control, the decision making, "taken away" is somewhat necessary in that these are the school's PPP and they own them... even after you leave the school.
Just some random thoughts re erik's comments...
Gail
[/B]
Oh Gail, I was thinking the same thing, I am just learning all this now since my son is in kindergarten.Btw, found out today that the nurse in not involved in the section 504 meetings at my school.I thought this odd.No,my son does not have one yet. I am working on one for next year.
btw, how do you quote more then one post?
I wanted to commenton a few.
Erik, you are never getting an anwer from Mommabear about those waffles!
I would also like to know in what way do other children going about their daily activites affect kids with asthma, etc?
Although I know some scents can trigger an asthma attack. (been there!)
I think the main issue here is the when you have a kid with asthma, who is diabetic etc, its more of a well known disease and people take it seriously.Say your kid has a peanut allergy and you get , "oh really? Like what is that, your kid gets some hives if he eats peanut butter? or I am allergic to tree pollen." Not the same pal! They dont understand the major issues involved.
Do you understand what I am trying to say? People just dont get it, that is where the problem is. I think my son is more at risk everyday at school then the kid next to him with diabetes.
jmo

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 9:31am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by patsmommy:
[b] btw, how do you quote more then one post?
[/b]
I manually edit the reply. I reply with quote, and then manually type in the [ quote ] [ /quote ] [ b ] [ / b ] etc ... so I actually do it manually. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by patsmommy:
[b] Erik, you are never getting an anwer from Mommabear about those waffles![/b]
Yes.. not sure if I will ever find out why she questions my Dempsters [b]peanut-free[/b] waffles as a healthy breakfast choice. I had thought maybe she had burned her fingers on a waffle iron in her childhood and this has subconsciously given her this aversion to waffles, but she assures me that this is not the reason. I guess I'll just have to wait in suspense for the answer... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by patsmommy:
[b]Say your kid has a peanut allergy and you get , "oh really? Like what is that, your kid gets some hives if he eats peanut butter? or I am allergic to tree pollen." Not the same pal!
People just dont get it, that is where the problem is. I think my son is more at risk everyday at school then the kid next to him with diabetes.[/b]
I agree.. and I think that is one reason why so many classrooms in Ontario have some type of label to indicate precautions taken regarding peanut issues as so many people do not take it seriously and the more we can highlight the issue the better as more of the general public will be educated. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 22, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 10:48am
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Originally posted by Erik:
"Although I do get your idea - for example, a student with asthma could have a severe reaction should a teacher or student start smoking in the school, so the school has regulations stating it is smoke-free, but do we ever hear anyone talking about the school being a "smoke-free" school?"
I was just at another elementary school in our district today and they have a sign on the front door saying "Smoke Free School". I thought of you guys when I saw it.
I didn't get a chance to speak to the principal about it, so I don't know if they have PPP and SOC to back it up or if it's just "lip service". But just wanted to let you know there is at least one smoke free school. Plus as far as I know there is no smoking allowed in any schools in our district, I don't know if others have the smoke free sign or not.

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 10:57am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by cynde:
[b]I was just at another elementary school in our district today and they have a sign on the front door saying "Smoke Free School". I thought of you guys when I saw it.[/b]
Hi Cynde,
Interesting.... so Gail, does that mean the non-smokers at that school are being ego-centric? hehe [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
I can actually see why you would want a "smoke-free" sign on the door, as if a parent, guest, etc was to come and visit the school you would want them to be aware of this policy so that they wouldn't light up a cigarette in the school lobby. Although you could make the case (if peanuts were restrcited from a school as they are from many schools in Ontario) that we should have peanut-free signs on the door as well. If a parent was to walk into the school or a trade worker or delivery man, etc, if the "peanut-free" sign was not on the door is it not possible that he could start minching on a Snicker's bar that he was carrying with him as a snack? The plumber fixing the busted tap in the washroom could munch on some M&Ms on his break?
Personally I do see some value in the xxx-free terminology if only to raise awareness.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 2:09pm
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Quote:Personally I do see some value in the xxx-free terminology if only to raise awareness. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/B]
I believe awareness is the key. Its funny that smoke-free is mentioned. I remember when we started to hear that term used a lot around here (probably only 10-12 years ago). It was talked about a lot for a short period of time, smoke-free restaurants, malls, etc. People were upset, debates about each others "rights" were going on, second hand smoke effects studied, etc. Now the term smoke-free is common! The thought of smoking on school grounds is just a no-no (at least for grade schools)!! Not to mention the awareness raised with the kids, they would be humiliated if their parent was seen smoking.
Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that change takes time and starts with awareness. I think the term needs to be whatever is easiest for the majority of people to understand and relate to. The more often it is seen and discussed in public forums the faster change will happen.
It sounds like Canada is a few steps ahead of us here in the USA.
Who knows, maybe in ten years people will become closet snickers bar eaters and never think of bringing it near a school yard.
Have a nice night [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Maggie
[This message has been edited by maggie0303 (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 2:46pm
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by maggie0303:
[b] Who knows, maybe in ten years people will become closet snickers bar eaters and never think of bringing it near a school yard. [/b]
Hi Maggie,
"Closet Snickers bar eaters?" haha That gave me my smile for the day.. hehe [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Interesting post you wrote.... your comments are so true... I remember all the "smoke free" debate from years ago too, and now everyone takes it for granted (smoke-free offices, shopping malls, public transit, etc).
Have a good evening too. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 4:45pm
Nick's picture
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Erik : let me tell ya (further to your comment near the top of page 3)- you're darned right about the nut & sesame allergy!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
I was tested for "several nuts" when diagnosed... to the best of my knowledge (not having the letter to hand), the ones that "get" me are : -
+ peanut
+ hazelnut
+ almond
+ walnut
+ cashew nut
and then our old friend the sesame seed!
Yeah, it is a right Royal "PitA", as I'm sure AnnaMarie can confirm! One reason I make my own bread is that all our supermarkets have warnings on the bakery counters (and most of the baked goods) : "Not suitable for nut or seed allergy sufferers". As you say, restaurants are off-limits too ! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
Fun, eh?? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 9:34pm
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] I hope it works... but she doesn't always answer every question (such as the one I posed about why she questions waffles as a healthy breakfast choice - I don't think I'll ever get an answer to that one) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
tick... tock...
[/b]
I think MommaBear threw this one back to you, erik... asking you for the PPP by which the manufactuers make the "peanut-free" claim.
Nice to see so many new posts by members new to this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Gail

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 10:34pm
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b] Hmmmm, the school allergy committee is a new concept in my region anyway. Has anyone heard of the like elsewhere? [/b]
No, I haven't. I think this is very cool.
[quote] Originally posted by arachide:
[b]There are no legal "requirements" imposed on us --we're charting new terrain here. The Allergy Committee is "answerable" to the school Governing Board, but does not have to adhere to any set rules/laws re: allergy management protocol because NONE exist (locally, regionally, provincially, or federally). [/b]
I would recheck this assumption. I think that there probably are many rules/laws that you must adhere to. They may not be tagged as "allergy management" rules/laws, but I'd be shocked if there weren't some existing board policies re medication (for example).
If it were me, I'd be thinking in these terms...
1. Developing a "mission statement" for your committee... (this may have already occurred).
2. Establishing some sort of "needs assessment". A good example for you might be the University of Michigan study. I think a "where are we?" type of assessment is always a necessary beginning...
3. What framework you must operate within... returning to the laws and other higher authorities that regulate schools. Your nurse, for example, is licensed, yes?
4. Will there be a physician-consultant?
5. What resources could Anaphylaxis Canada provide you? Do they know of any similar efforts? Is there someone that would be willing to be a contact person for you to help you with this process?
I think your committee is very, very exciting. And I'm very interesting in hearing how it progresses. I hope you will update us often.
Gail

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 11:10pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Having the ultimate control, the decision making, "taken away" is somewhat necessary in that these are the school's PPP and they own them... even after you leave the school.
[/b]
Excellent point! We shouldn't make the mistake of presuming the PPP's belong to us. Even if we help develop them, they are ultimately the school's responsibility --

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 11:40pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
[quote] Originally posted by arachide:
[b]There are no legal "requirements" imposed on us --we're charting new terrain here. The Allergy Committee is "answerable" to the school Governing Board, but does not have to adhere to any set rules/laws re: allergy management protocol because NONE exist (locally, regionally, provincially, or federally). [/b]
I would recheck this assumption. I think that there probably are many rules/laws that you must adhere to. They may not be tagged as "allergy management" rules/laws, but I'd be shocked if there weren't some existing board policies re medication (for example).
Let me clarify. You're right that there are procedures in place regarding "medication" for instance. Epi-pen administration is explained in a paragraph wedged into our school board's first aid policy.
That's it.
Board-wise: There's nothing about anaphylaxis (I contacted the board directly about this). There's nothing about food safety and handling. There's nothing about allergies/asthma/diabetes/... zip.
School-wise: Zip, nada.
Yes, there are provincial GUIDELINES, but not rules.
At the meeting where the allergy committee was approved, the principal told me that he has been asked by the board to develop and document PPP's for the school and was counting on our committee to assist in drafting these. In our region, schools are allowed to "handle" these issues independently, thus the role of each individual school's Governing Board (decentralized administration --not sure it's always for the best).
Quote:Originally posted by Gail W.[b]
If it were me, I'd be thinking in these terms...
1. Developing a "mission statement" for your committee... (this may have already occurred).[/b]
Done.
Quote:[b]
2. Establishing some sort of "needs assessment". A good example for you might be the University of Michigan study. I think a "where are we?" type of assessment is always a necessary beginning...[/b]
In progress.
Quote:[b]
3. What framework you must operate within... returning to the laws and other higher authorities that regulate schools. Your nurse, for example, is licensed, yes? [/b]
Yes the nurse is licensed. She is the district nurse who visits 6 schools on a rotational basis.
Framework? To be determined, although as previously stated, we're charting new terrain. To the best of my knowledge so far (and I will be looking into this specifically this week 'cuz you've got me thinking about it) there's nothing "regulating" how we may or may not proceed in terms of PPP (remember that anything developed is applicable to our school only)
Quote:[b]
4. Will there be a physician-consultant? [/b]
Gads, that'd be terrific! I'll enquire about this, but won't hold my breath. Maybe here is where Anaphylaxis Canada may be able to refer me to someone.
Thanks for the thought fodder Gail.
(I too can't stand nail polish! I end up picking the stuff off my nails after 10 minutes [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 11:42pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
I can actually see why you would want a "smoke-free" sign on the door, as if a parent, guest, etc was to come and visit the school you would want them to be aware of this policy so that they wouldn't light up a cigarette in the school lobby. Although you could make the case (if peanuts were restrcited from a school as they are from many schools in Ontario) that we should have peanut-free signs on the door as well. If a parent was to walk into the school or a trade worker or delivery man, etc, if the "peanut-free" sign was not on the door is it not possible that he could start minching on a Snicker's bar that he was carrying with him as a snack? The plumber fixing the busted tap in the washroom could munch on some M&Ms on his break?
[/b]
My son's school has a smoke-free sign (supplied by the board of ed. to all the schools). It also has a sign with a picture of a peanut with a line through it. Can't remember exactly what is says underneath, but, definitely multi-lingual [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 11:45pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Gail, your post May 22 at 6:00 p.m. was excellent.

Posted on: Thu, 05/22/2003 - 11:48pm
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
I think MommaBear threw this one back to you, erik... asking you for the PPP by which the manufactuers make the "peanut-free" claim.
[/b]
Actually, Eric answered that (though I don't remember where). He said he didn't know the specific PPP, but that the companies (i.e. Nestle, Cadbury, Chapman's) advise that they have facilities that do not allow peanuts.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:00am
arachide's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:[b]
...wthddimatphs...
[quote]Originally posted by arachide:
[B] ???
[/b]
[b][i]Wait! The Heated Dilithium Distributer Is Making All The Phasers Halt, Scotty![/b][/i]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:06am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b] Actually, Eric answered that (though I don't remember where). He said he didn't know the specific PPP, but that the companies (i.e. Nestle, Cadbury, Chapman's) advise that they have facilities that do not allow peanuts.[/b]
Yes.. when I contact Canadian peanut-free manufacturers I just ask for details but don't request specific documents. The answers I have received have made me comfortable enough that I have no hestitation in using their products and I believe other Canadians with PA would agree with me. For example, has anyone ever heard of a Canadian with PA who refused to eat a Nestle Kit Kat or Chapmans peanut-free safe vanilla ice cream, etc... I believe all Canadians trust these peanut-free manufactuers (if any of you Canadian out there disagree with me let me know!)
These manufacturers have confirmed with me that they don't allow peanuts in their facilities, they do not use peanut ingredients in their products, and they certify that their suppliers are peanut-free.
As an example, you could go to the Touche Bakery web site. [url="http://www.touchebakery.com"]http://www.touchebakery.com[/url]
You will see the following stated:
- no nuts/peanuts allowed on the Touche premises
- no peanut oils, residues or nut related products used in production
- the entire bakery is nut/peanut-free, not just one section
- all ingredient and packaging suppliers complete and sign off on allergen reports
Even though I may not know every detail I still know enough that I am comfortable with eating products made by Canadian peanut-free manufacturers and I believe other Canadians are too.
And I think many Americans are also confident in these companies, as is evident in Americans who cross the border just to pick up these products (Nestle chocolate bars, Chapmans ice cream, etc)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:07am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by arachide:
[b][i]Wait! The Heated Dilithium Distributer Is Making All The Phasers Halt, Scotty![/b][/i]
hmm.. maybe Star Trek fans (Cayley's Mom, River) will start to post in this thread now that Trek terms are appearing. Speaking of Star Trek, do u notice no one eats peanuts/peanut butter in the future? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:15am
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Quote:Originally posted by maggie0303:
[b] I believe awareness is the key. Its funny that smoke-free is mentioned. I remember when we started to hear that term used a lot around here (probably only 10-12 years ago). [/b]
Probably longer. Despite the possible existence of such prolonged "awareness".........
people still smoke.
Around others.
Around minors.
Around infants.
[i]SIMPLY AMAAAAAAAAAAZING[/i]. Sigh.
It is interesting to note the difference between "Smoke-Free" and "Tobbacco-Free". Would one be more easily defineable, thus possibly more realistically achievable, and ultimately more easily enforced?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:20am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
These manufacturers have confirmed with me that they don't allow peanuts in their facilities, they do not use peanut ingredients in their products, and they certify that their suppliers are peanut-free.
[/b]
Eric,
Can a school do the same?
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
(Quietly wondering if Gail beat me to the punch)
edited to add:
[i]Relatively speaking with regards to [b]implied guarantee[/b][/i]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:21am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Yes.. when I contact Canadian peanut-free manufacturers I just ask for details but don't request specific documents. The answers I have received have made me comfortable enough that I have no hestitation in using their products. [/b]
I missed your previous post about this. Sorry! I read the link, and agree w/ you. Impressive. I wish I could have this same confidence with US manufacturers.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:28am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] people still smoke.
Around others.
Around minors.
Around infants.[/b]
These days, almost everything is smoke-free. In Toronto, no smoking is permitted in restaurants, shopping malls, offices, public transit, etc which is quite an improvement over the old days, so that children are no longer exposed to cigarette smoke (except possibly in the home environment).

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:29am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]
I think MommaBear threw this one back to you, erik... asking you for the PPP by which the manufactuers make the "peanut-free" claim.
Nice to see so many new posts by members new to this thread. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Gail[/b]
Actually, I wasn't throwing it back at him. I was pointing out that yes, indeed, "peanut-free" can have some practical application. Under certain circumstances, possibly?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:34am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b] My son's school has a smoke-free sign (supplied by the board of ed. to all the schools). It also has a sign with a picture of a peanut with a line through it. Can't remember exactly what is says underneath, but, definitely multi-lingual [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img][/b]
Do you ever read a comic strip called (I think) "Family Circle"? Your post made me envision an upcoming one:
Children standing in front of the school doors looking at many multiple signs~ "Smoke Free", "Peanut Free", "Gun Free" , "Profanity Free", etc., etc.
Caption: "Boy, there sure is a lot of free stuff at this school."
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] Sorry. It's a pretty lame comic strip. Couldn't help sharing the mental visual.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:36am
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Interesting to note that in many cases "smoke-free" has some method of "enforceability". Quite possibly attributable to laws regarding the regulation and sale of such products and the consequences for violating such. Quite possibly even Federal law in some instances.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:37am
Gail W's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] I was pointing out that yes, indeed, "peanut-free" can have some practical application. Under certain circumstances, possibly?
[/b]
Yes, understood. With the appropriate PPP, I presume.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:37am
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[url="http://www.smokefreeottawa.com/english/article-e10.htm"]http://www.smokefreeottawa.com/english/article-e10.htm[/url]
"Enforceablility"? Resulting in the ability to be realistically achievable? Or visa versa?
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the link in this post.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:38am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Actually, I wasn't throwing it back at him. I was pointing out that yes, indeed, "peanut-free" can have some practical application. Under certain circumstances, possibly?[/b]
I agree, such as in the "peanut-free" Nestle Canada Kit Kat bar example. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:40am
erik's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] Eric,
Can a school do the same?
[i]Relatively speaking with regards to implied guarantee[/i]
[/b]
I think we have seen from various member's postings that an implied guarantee often won't work as there is nothing of substance behind it to ensure it means anything.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:41am
MommaBear's picture
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[i]DEFINEABILITY?[/i]
[url="http://www.gasp.org/cleanairact.html#how"]http://www.gasp.org/cleanairact.html#how[/url]
entitled:
"HOW DOES THE LAW DEFINE SMOKING?"
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the link in this post.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:43am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Do you ever read a comic strip called (I think) "Family Circle"? Your post made me envision an upcoming one:
Children standing in front of the school doors looking at many multiple signs~ "Smoke Free", "Peanut Free", "Gun Free" , "Profanity Free", etc., etc.
Caption: "Boy, there sure is a lot of free stuff at this school."
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] Sorry. It's a pretty lame comic strip. Couldn't help sharing the mental visual.
[/b]
You forgot "Drug-Free".

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:44am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]
I think we have seen from various member's postings that an implied guarantee often won't work as there is nothing of substance behind it to ensure it means anything.[/b]
You actually missed my point. Sigh.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:48am
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Eric,
are you involved in "Dialogue" or "Debate"?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:50am
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[url="http://www.gasp.org/cleanairact.html"]http://www.gasp.org/cleanairact.html[/url]
Plenty of PPP???
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the link in this post.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 12:52am
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MommaBear,
Is your question to erik, "How does the law define peanut-free?"

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:02am
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A Clinical [b]ALGORITHM[/b]
for entitled "Smoking Cessasion".
Particularly noting second page.
*********************************
[url="http://www.guideline.gov/VIEWS/summary.asp?guideline=2635&summary_type=brief_summary&view=brief_summary&sSearch_string="]http://www.guideline.gov/VIEWS/summary.a...sSearch_string=[/url]
quote from this link, (bold added by Mommabear):
"CLINICAL ALGORITHM(S):
Two [b]detailed[/b] and annotated clinical algorithms are provided for:
Infants and Children from Birth to 10 Years Old
Children and Adolescents Aged 10 Years and Above
DEVELOPER(S):"
Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy or content of the links in this post.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:06am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]MommaBear,
Is your question to erik, "How does the law define peanut-free?"[/b]
Can I add.........
"How does the law enforce "peanut-free?"
(This "fresh" after 16 hours at work. The day only yet beginning, depending on where ya live.)

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:08am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Eric,
are you involved in "Dialogue" or "Debate"?[/b]
Hi Momma Bear,
This question sounds to me as if you feel I am not interested in discussing this productively (dialogue) and am instead just disagreeing with everything (debate) in order to be argumentative.
I actually thought you were asking if this implied guarantee (that manufacturers such as Nestle Canada use) would work in a school setting... I thought that was your question. Implied = [i]To express or indicate indirectly[/i] so I was certain you were referring to school that "imply" that they are safe so I tried to give an honest answer.
Your questions are not always crystal clear and direct so I sometimes mis-interpret your questions. [edited to remove comments about my posts] (I am not an English major like Anna Marie [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:14am
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Cayley's Mom had posted a dialogue is preferable to a debate, as a debate [i]involves a countering of the other position without focusing on feelings or relationship and often belittles or deprecates the other person[/i] and I did not realize that was what I apparently was doing.

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:14am
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Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] PS. Gail, so far, we quite possibly are in the same ballpark. Maybe the same skybox, even. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [/b]
Off topic: Cardinals box, right? Did I ever tell you that Mariah met Mark McGuire?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:16am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Hi Momma Bear,
This question sounds to me as if you feel I am not interested in discussing this productively (dialogue) and am instead just disagreeing with everything (debate) in order to be argumentative.
I actually thought you were asking if this implied guarantee (that manufacturers such as Nestle Canada use) would work in a school setting... I thought that was your question. Implied = [i]To express or indicate indirectly[/i] so I was certain you were referring to school that "imply" that they are safe so I tried to give an honest answer.
Your questions are not always crystal clear and direct so I sometimes mis-interpret your questions. If my responses are not helpful let me know and I'll go to other threads where they are more welcome, because I can not guarantee that I will always understand all of your questions (I am not an English major like Anna Marie [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] )
[/b]
I have never told someone where to post. Or set up a "crown" to be claimed. Neither have I accused anyone of harboring "hostility" towards inanimate objects or intangible concepts. You may begin to see where some confusion resides.
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:18am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Off topic: Cardinals box, right? Did I ever tell you that Mariah met Mark McGuire? [/b]
[b]Red[/b] is my favorite color. Or at least one of them. Do tell!!!!

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:21am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Your questions are not always crystal clear and direct so I sometimes mis-interpret your questions. ...I can not guarantee that I will always understand all of your questions [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] ) [/b]
I understand what you mean, erik. I am trying to interpret MommaBear's questions, too. Let's hang in there...
I think it's about the "definable, measureable, reaslistically achieveable, and enforceable" criteria that MommaBear has put forward. If they do not meet these 4 criteria, then.... what, MommaBear?
Gail

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:34am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] I understand what you mean, erik. I am trying to interpret MommaBear's questions, too. Let's hang in there...[/b]
Hi Gail,
Yes, but it seems I have somehow offended Momma Bear and I don't even realize why. I don't recall any rudeness. It was actually Anna Marie who started the debating "crown" talk (not me), and my comments about her animosity towards waffles was just a [b]joke[/b]. I had thought I was being a productive member of this dialogue. Oh well............ time for a 10 minute break. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 23, 2003).]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:39am
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Can we try to just set that aside and return to the debate/dialogue?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:41am
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I think I recall MommaBear saying she just came off a 16-hour work shift...

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:44am
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I try to read and post when I can, but to me the waffle subject did seem like a joke!! Although it has made me need waffles. We had some for breakfast this morning with extra syrup [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] My kids were happy!
I have found you to be a productive, informative member of this dialog and site.
Thanks!
Maggie

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:46am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] I think it's about the "definable, measureable, reaslistically achieveable, and enforceable" criteria that MommaBear has put forward. If they do not meet these 4 criteria, then.... what, MommaBear?
[/b]
Is it that the goal will (most likely) fail?
"Gun/drug free" (and others) meet this criteria and therefore are achievable goals. If the food manufactuers also meet this criteria, they likewise will meet their "peanut free" goal.
I think what MommaBear is asking is, if food manufacturers can follow this criteria, why can't the schools?
Yes?

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:53am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]I think I recall MommaBear saying she just came off a 16-hour work shift...[/b]
[i][b]Ya.[/b][/i]
[i]so what of it[/i]???? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]
Whatcha trying to imply???? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
THAT I MIGHT BE A LITTLE "PUNCHY"????
.....just entering the next "16" with my two darling little boys who really really really reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy wanna go "somewhere fun". Sleep is highly overated. [i]Isn't it?[/i] As I wouldn't really have much to go on. The nap yesterday afternoon didn't quite work out. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Merely carressing one of the many throw pillows in my home and toying with its tassle.
Eric, In no way am I [i]offended[/i]. Just a tad bit [i]disheartend[/i].
MommaBear [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:55am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Oh well............ time for a 24 hour break. [/b]
Great idea. Hope everyone will return tomorrow.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Gail

Posted on: Fri, 05/23/2003 - 1:59am
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Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b] Is it that the goal will (most likely) fail?
"Gun/drug free" (and others) meet this criteria and therefore are achievable goals. If the food manufactuers also meet this criteria, they likewise will meet their "peanut free" goal.
I think what MommaBear is asking is, if food manufacturers can follow this criteria, why can't the schools?
Yes?
[/b]
Have you ever thought about entering the teaching profession, Gail?
Oh, wait, you did. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

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