DEBATE thread - stay away if you don\'t want to read never-ending boring debates

Posted on: Mon, 05/19/2003 - 1:58pm
erik's picture
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It seems that many people are frustrated that threads are constantly ending up turning into endless debates between various people. Pages of endless, boring debate will rapidly appear, which makes it hard to navigate through the thread and find useful information (note: I am one of the people who has been doing this).

California Mom had the idea of creating a [b]debate thread[/b], so here it is. Hopefully, everyone can post their long, endless, boring debates here so we can keep the other threads clean and easy to read (kind of like the rudeness thread idea).

I am sure most of you have [b]no interest[/b] in reading pages of debates between myself, Gail, Anna Marie, Momma Bear, etc.. so now you won't have to.. just stay away from this thread.

If anyone wants to debate me on any issues, please post here. I will refrain from long debates in the other threads in my effort to help to keep them clear and to the point.

Let the debating begin...

Posted on: Mon, 05/19/2003 - 2:04pm
erik's picture
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I'll start.....................
Quote:
Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Do you recall reading what I posted about my younger son's accidental and completely unforseen "oral challenge", involving a product that contained gross amounts of peanut? Didn't even know it was in the house.
Never posted about it before, but recently, my older son (PA) had an accidental and completely unforseen major reaction to a "Manufactured in the same facility that processes peanuts". Didn't even know it was in the house.[/b]
hmmm.. upon reading this new bit of information I would think a classroom with a peanut ban might be a safer place for your child to be rather than home-schooling.
Why is it that you feel that schools with a peanut ban are unsafe ("an ambulance siren away") as you state that there is always a remote possibility that peanuts could still get into the classroom?
But your home schooling option seems just as dangerous as it appears peanut products can get into your home... I don't understand the logic...

Posted on: Mon, 05/19/2003 - 2:24pm
California Mom's picture
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Bless you Erik for this new thread! I do plan to stay away, but just wanted to let you know how pleased I am. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam

Posted on: Mon, 05/19/2003 - 2:29pm
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Quote:Originally posted by California Mom:
[b]Bless you Erik for this new thread! I do plan to stay away, but just wanted to let you know how pleased I am. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam[/b]
Hi Miriam,
Glad you like the thread... hmmm.. but you didn't debate anything with me?? haha

Posted on: Mon, 05/19/2003 - 2:39pm
Sue's picture
Sue
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Joined: 02/13/1999 - 09:00

Erik,
Thank you - I am happy to see this thread. It is a great idea.
I don't have anything to debate right now [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Sue in Sunny Arizona

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 12:39am
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous (not verified)

The only problem with a debate thread is that a debate actually starts as a conversation, which means it will start othe places and need to be moved here. But, lets give it a try.....
MommaBear, I thought we were debating peanut-free and whether or not it can be done. Now, I feel like I've been playing hockey with a football. Lord Stanley's Cup is still up for grabs.
My initial response was going to be that you put a lot more faith in nurses than I do. But, since that is only your [i]first[/i] requirement, I think I'll wait before responding. What else, [i]personally[/i] and [i]specifically[/i] do you require for your child.
And BTW, my school board couldn't afford nurses with those requirements for every school that has an anaphylactic student. So, do you think they should only provide it for the specifc parents who request it, or group all anaphylactic students in one school? Hmmm...who pays for the buses? And, is this only for anaphylactic students or for all food allergy students? What about bee stings....

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 12:46am
erik's picture
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Momma Bear: I still need some answers too......
Such as why are you so certain that peanut bans create dangerous classrooms which would result in "approaching ambulance sirens" as you said, when your home schooling option seems unsafe (two reactions from peanut products you did not even know were in your house).
As well, if you want policies, procedures, standards of care, etc for the schools, which policies, procedures, standards of care, etc do you use for your own home since you home school there.
You still haven't explained where your inner hostility towards [b]peanut-free waffles [/b]originates. I believe it is quite a healthy choice for breakfast and am surprised you would question this. Maybe some bad experience as a child (burned your fingers on a waffle iron?) Perhaps this could explain your repeated questioning of the term peanut-free?
How do you know if the merlot is safe? Does the merlot producer have a Policy, Protocol, or Procedure or Standard of Care by which to determine or produce their products? How about other food items you bring into your home?
Since you love debating, you must be glad that Anna Marie and I are here to continue the debate. You can pour yourself a [b]peanut-free[/b] merlot and start typing.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by erik (edited May 20, 2003).]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 12:48am
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Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]The only problem with a debate thread is that a debate actually starts as a conversation, which means it will start othe places and need to be moved here. [/b]
Hi Anna Marie,
You can still debate issues in other threads. The purpose of this thread is for those long never-ending debates that go on and on and bore everyone else to death except for the debate participants.
Some issues such as "peanut-free" take pages and pages and the debate never ends so this is a good place to post as much as you want without others being irritated. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 12:59am
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Joined: 12/06/2002 - 09:00

Hi Erik,
Thanks for the offer but the only debate I have going on today is w/myself!
I do also want to thank you for being so understanding w/me in Cindy's topic. I was very worried that I would offend you & all males...plop, plop, fizz, fizz...oh, what a relief it is!
~Lisa

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 1:03am
erik's picture
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Joined: 05/15/2001 - 09:00

Hi Lisa,
You don't need to worry... I don't get offended easily at all (life is too short to be offended at things anyway) and what you wrote was not offensive. I truly believe many male school principals don't take mother's PA concerns seriously (they think the PA Mom is just paranoid) - I believe you made a very valid point. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Oh well, maybe you'll have a debate with Momma Bear, Anna Marie, or someone at a later date and we'll see you here again [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 05/20/2003 - 1:56am
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Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]I truly believe many male school principals don't take mother's PA concerns seriously (they think the PA Mom is just paranoid)...[/b]
I must have missed this post between you two, erik, because my experience is just the opposite.
At my son's school last year (we home school now), the female principal there was nothing short of [i]evil[/i] to me. I wrote letters to the school months before it started explaining my sons problems (Asperger's, CAPD, PA, asthma) and what accommodations needed to be implemented (he had an existing IEP from early intervention and was in SLP, so we didn't have to set one up) and that further testing would be in order.
The CAPD is a hearing dysfunction and effects his vestibular processing capabilities. If he goes to lunch in the cafeteria or is overwhelmed with sound or hears a fire alarm, he will shut down completely for hours after that and stim (self stimulate ~ rock, chew on things, be incapable of functioning).
When I found out a couple weeks into school that my son was eating in the cafeteria AND not eating at the allergen free/PN free table (my step-son narked on the school! YAY for siblings!), I went down to the school to talk with the Principal. I had never met her before, although I had met several times with the vice-principal (a man) on the IEP paperwork and the continued testing I requested.
She looked briefly at my file, then said, "Are you sure there's even anything wrong with your son? Are you sure he's just not being neglected at home?" My jaw dropped! I stood there processing what she had just said to me and shook with anger. She had basically told me, without ever having met me, without ever having read ONE of my letters to the school, that there was nothing wrong with my son and it was all in my imagination and that I had to be neglecting him at home?? OMG!
I turned flush red and just shook with a look of complete shock on my face until I finally burst out, "HOW DARE YOU! How dare you accuse me of neglecting my son without even meeting him, without even reading the file!! Without so much as even LOOKING at the medical support, recommendations and information provided by many reputable doctors!! HOW DARE YOU!" I then slammed some papers I had been given down in front of her and demanded she look at the file.
Luckily, in walks the special education teacher who mediates and successfully gets my child OUT of the cafeteria entirely (eating lunch with her.) I told the SE teacher that next time I was required to speak to that principal, she would be hard pressed to keep me from decking her.
Obviously, I never did speak to her again and she finally left the school this year, but so did I. We home school, but not because of PA ~ entirely. Sure, it plays a part, but not the determining part.
I also think that MommaBear didn't decide to home school EXCLUSIVELY because of PA either. I think for her it was more of a determining factor than it was for me, but we both have Aspie kids.
~Melanie
P.S. The point to all this being: The vice-principal, a [b]GUY[/b] had an enormous amount of compassion for my son and his situation all around. He was sensitive to the PA, the AS, the CAPD and wanted very much for him to get all the services he needed. He LIKED my son. And I like him. It was the FEMALE principal who was insensitive, judgemental, and downright cruel.
[This message has been edited by MeCash (edited May 20, 2003).]

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