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Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 6:17am
samirosenjacken's picture
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Joined: 09/30/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Christabelle:
[b]Let me add that I do not see how people take the stance that keeping more peanut allergen out of school does not make it a safer school. Less peanut allergen = less likelihood my daughter will come into contact with it.
Period.
Education is fine and dandy, but my daughter and her friends and teachers can have all the education in the world about the condition but if there is allergen all over the playground monkey bars, the bathroom stall doors, the cafeteria in the air, the classroom, and everywhere else in the school because peanuts are allowed everywhere...and my daughter can't be educated to the point of being able to detect every microscopic peanut particle all over everything - how will that help, exactly?
It's not logical in practical terms to place education over less allergen. Less peanut allergen is better. [/b]
SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided.

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 6:38am
Corvallis Mom's picture
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This is the same argument that non-PA parents constantly throw out... *sigh*... the fact is that we have many mystery reactions living in the RESTRICTED way that we do... we have decided (with her) that we need to use the mystery reactions (aerosol and contact in places that should be food-free) to let her learn management strategy.
I can't answer for anyone else, but only for our situation.
Which involves NOT going to other people's houses much, not taking DD to the grocery store, not going to sporting events, not going to restaurants, not going to public parks (as a general rule), not, not, not.
So yes, we do keep my daughter in a bubble. We feel we have to. So that she can LEARN how to manage her allergy. Because if she were in places where she routintely could come into contact with pn protein, we couldn't afford to let her make mistakes as she learns. So we keep her in a restricted environment because it is the only way that we can allow her to manage things herself. I don't see it as really any different from using internet controls and not allowing "private" internet time with your children...sure its artificial. But hey, they're KIDS. They don't have the greatest judgement-- that's what we're there for, right?
Can I ask what's up with this general topic over the last couple of days, Samirosenjacken? Why isn't it okay for other people to have a different opinion? More specifically, a more conservative approach. Nobody is saying you are making the wrong choices for your own family. Nobody is saying your child is "less allergic" or anything like that.
Has something come up that rubbed you the wrong way? You seem kinda cranked up, relative to normal. (I don't mean that negatively... really I don't. I enjoy hearing how you manage your own situation. You just seem grumpy, that's all, and I am hoping that nothing is wrong.)
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 7:51am
samirosenjacken's picture
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Joined: 09/30/2002 - 09:00

good question but I don't think I am grumpier than normal [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I usually stay away from these posts and the longer threads b/c I don't have time to read them but I guess the attack agains FAAN kinda got to me. I feel fortunate that we even have a group like FAAN to go to. When I started all this with my daughter who was 4 and just going to school, I felt so lost and alone and totally ignorant on the subject of food allergies. I also felt "hysterical" about it and became somewhat of a peanut nazi. I didn't even know FAAN existed. But with support from friends, starting a support group in my town and learning about FAAN, I learned how not to be hysterical and how to manage the allergy so my kids aren't hysterical. I guess I felt like I controlled the allergy instead of the allergy controlling me. So if I am grumpy I apologize. I just felt that the attacks on FAAN were unwarranted.

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 9:16am
momma2boys's picture
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Joined: 03/14/2003 - 09:00

See, here is what I am trying to get to. Everyone deals with their allergies differently. FAAN works for you, you agree with their approach. Others deal with allergies differently and don't agree with FAAN. But, because they have somehow become established as the authority, some of us resent the fact that they have a one size fits all approach.

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 9:54am
mommyofmatt's picture
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Joined: 03/12/2004 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by samirosenjacken:
[b]
SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided. [/b]
IMO, here's the difference b/w the scenarios you mentioned and school. 1) The adult to student ratio is much smaller in schools. Therefore, there would not be someone constantly eyeing my child because there are so many children to watch over. If I take my child to the mall, the grocery store, or wherever, I'm with my child. I watch him quite frequently wherever we go.
2) In all the places you outlined, the population does not have the same makeup as school, where there are tons of kids, all eating, and potentially carrying residue from what they're eating throughout the school. Again, no parents in place to clean them up if they happen to be messy eaters. The younger the kids, the messier the eaters right?
Sure, some kids will be present in grocery stores for example. And, some of those kids will be eating. But there will also be other people, not kids, and most likely not eating. And, those kids in grocery stores or ball games will be in their own space, not sitting next to my child eating something they're allergic to. Also if I'm with my child, I can easily remove them from what I feel is dangerous.
At school, I'd have to rely on my child to move themselves (which as they get older is a completely reasonable expectation) or the teacher to take care of it. Again, the ratio of students to kids bugs me in this scenario.
I'm definitely all for a food free classroom, and peanut products being removed from school menus. I'm not against bans..but not sure I'd push for one either. IMO, reducing the risk is most definitely the way to go. You can still educate your kids and the school about safety and being on guard.
I support FAAN in general, but I don't support their position on bans, and also think they could be more supportive of 504 plans. And my ds has allergies to milk and egg too...the less food he's allergic to around him, I feel the safer he is.
Climbing down from my soap box now....Meg

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 1:39pm
Corvallis Mom's picture
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Thanks for explaining, Samirosenjacken. I understand completely. I am glad that FAAN was so helpful to you. I hope that you don't think we are all just FAAN-bashing... it isn't at all what I intend.
We were directed to FAAN as well, but we didn't find that they could tell us anything we didn't already know. (But we had the resources of a university library and research center at our disposal... this clearly isn't the norm.)
We needed information about how to identify cross-contaminated products that are not well-labeled. How to find safe food products when your child is allergic to five of the big eight... Not how to read labels. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
We felt very "left out" by FAAN because all along, it has been made pretty clear to us that we aren't the people FAAN is "speaking" to/for...so we have kind of been neutral in terms of opinion about them.
I think they do very good things for people who need what they have to offer. Their visibility and outreach efforts are AWESOME. I only became "hysterical" when I realized that they weren't talking about [i]my kid[/i] when they said she should be able to tolerate oils... and that aerosol reactions are a myth... and that if you are diagnosed with more than 2 food allergies you probably aren't really allergic... etc etc. It felt very lonely to know that the only organization for "us" didn't acknowledge some of the very real problems we were faced with. It seemed like they only dealt with things we [i]didn't[/i] need help with. I felt more alone after I went through all that was available from them... it was a sense of [i]WHAT??? This is all the help there is?? But this isn't about my child...[/i]
I began to feel as if there were no other children like mine and that she was a freak who was destined for death via Darwinian law in action... That made me feel terrible. The last straw was the death of another PA child... and the news story brought me here, where I finally found other people who knew my story because it was also their story.
As I mentioned before, I think that FAAN tends to speak for the more moderately allergic or the singly food allergic. This is fine, since for the FA community at the moment, this is the middle of the distribution. I know this. This is true of almost all the help that is out there, though, so it isn't really a criticism. (shrug) It just explains why I am supportive, but a little tepid in my feelings. I don't agree with the one-size-fits-all approach that they encourage/espouse, whatever... and there are many things I wish they did better, but I am glad very glad that they are there.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
(darned spelling!!)
[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited March 07, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 10:32pm
Christabelle's picture
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Joined: 10/03/2004 - 09:00

I would have to second the sentiment that school is a very artificial environment compared to other environments my child is in. What do you suppose the percentage of peanut butter and peanut-product-eating kids are per capita in a school is versus what you would find out in the environment? I submit it would be much higher. The whole point is this is not an allergy to sauerkraut - if it were, this would never come up. It's the volume of kids eating the stuff en masse every day in a school with no restricitons in place that is the big problem. The other environments, also, are optional but I feel school is an actual RIGHT my child has. Also, in agreement with the other poster, I can be nearby my child and control the situation but not so in school.
There is a huge, huge difference.
I feel in fact that bans would bring schools more in line with the normal baseline amount of peanut allergen that my child would encounter outside of school in other areas. I would not expect perfection, but taking the peanut-everywhere thing down would be a great, great improvement.

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 10:45pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by samirosenjacken:
[b]
SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided. [/b]
Quote:Originally posted by mommyofmatt[b]: IMO, here's the difference b/w the scenarios you mentioned and school. 1) The adult to student ratio is much smaller in schools. Therefore, there would not be someone constantly eyeing my child because there are so many children to watch over. If I take my child to the mall, the grocery store, or wherever, I'm with my child. I watch him quite frequently wherever we go.
2) In all the places you outlined, the population does not have the same makeup as school, where there are tons of kids, all eating, and potentially carrying residue from what they're eating throughout the school. Again, no parents in place to clean them up if they happen to be messy eaters. The younger the kids, the messier the eaters right?
Sure, some kids will be present in grocery stores for example. And, some of those kids will be eating. But there will also be other people, not kids, and most likely not eating. And, those kids in grocery stores or ball games will be in their own space, not sitting next to my child eating something they're allergic to. Also if I'm with my child, I can easily remove them from what I feel is dangerous.
At school, I'd have to rely on my child to move themselves (which as they get older is a completely reasonable expectation) or the teacher to take care of it. Again, the ratio of students to kids bugs me in this scenario.[/b]
what samirosenjacken asked is essentially what a school district asked me previously. With their lawyer present. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]
I replied (back in first grade) and paraphrased:
[i]"When my child goes out in public, aside from school, he is either with myself, my husband or both. I'm an RN, my husband a paramedic/firefighter. One to one or [b]Two to one[/b] professional care. Are you saying that [b]in school[/b] that is the Professional Standard of Care you will be providing my son to navigate your school safely?"[/i]
It was met with [i]silence[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
And you know, he's now 10 and aside from school, [i]the Professional Standard of Care[/i] in public is still pretty much the same. I mean, I don't let my child roam the public thoroughfare, alone, period, at age 10. PA aside, even.
But maybe that's just me.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 08, 2006).]

Posted on: Tue, 03/07/2006 - 11:28pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Now that said, I posted in another thread:
"[i]Although that said, he's had mystery coughs that just happen to excacerbate in the lunch room. Anywhere in the lunch room. Especially during lunch. It's not all the time, but pretty frequent. But that is the extent of them there. What am I going to do? remove him from his life? every "what if" situation? (NO ADVICE, I COULD BE AN AWFUL MOM. A BAD MOMMY. A HORRENDOUS RISK TAKER WITH A LIFE NOT EVEN MY OWN.)But I digress.[/i]"
.......I have not went to the public thoroughfare, but it is comming to me.
It's a quandry I find myself in. He has a one-to-one aide (not rn, not paramedic) and he sits at the end of the table, and those with obvious peanut products are moved away (seats switched, and the children pretty much look out for this as well as the staff and his aide), but it's not a [i]perfect world[/i], now, is it?
That said, there is some faith, and prayer, and even anguish involved. I mean, [i]that's life[/i]. Or the cost of having one.
But maybe that's just me.
Banning peanut protein from my cub's lunch room? I don't see how it can be done. There's four hundred children eating. (at *first lunch* only, even) There's *at most* 20 minutes to eat. There's probably 5 lunch room attendants. I wouldn't depend on *their* label reading anyway. And whose to say it's peanut butter, soy butter, or sun butter? Besides, I don't really think it's *normal* for 400 children to have their lunches *inspected* before they consume them. But maybe that's just me. Do I want them equating my child with *that*? And who is *qualified* to do that anyway? And four hundred is just taking into consideration *first* lunch. The school has nearly 1200 students.
General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. No way. Just describing my own personal, highly individual, and possibly unique situation. and level of individual responsibility. And anguish. And cost. Individual Mileage May Vary. But someday, God-willing, my child *will* navigate independently. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] It's not an option not to.

Posted on: Wed, 03/08/2006 - 1:05am
jtolpin's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2003 - 09:00

Some people like Internet Explorer.
Some don't.
Some people don't mind the majority's 'wording', some DO mind it.
kwim?
I have no problem with FAAN.
Jason
------------------
[b]* Obsessed * [/b]

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