Can I ask ???

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Ok, with the risk of being totally tarred and feathered, what is the negativity surrounded FAAN? I read the post about the Canadian teen and kept finding all kinds of negative comments about the group. Someone even attacked the founder as to where she attained her medical degree???!?!?!

Anne Furlong may not be a MD, but she is surrounded by the best of the best. She doesn't give recommendations without the consent, authority, approval of her medical team. Anything that comes out of FAAN medically, comes from her medical team: Dr. Wood from Johns Hopkins, Dr. Sampson from NY, Dr. Burke from Duke. These guys are top of the line where food allergies are concerned and I'll be honest in that I would follow their recommendations before I followed the allergists I have found here in my state.

If you've never been to a FAAN conference and have the opportunity to attend one, I'd highly recommend it. Then you'd see what I am talking about.

Let me just add: I have NO AFFILIATION NONE NADA ZERO ZIP with FAAN. I am just a mom and this is my humble opinion.

On Mar 7, 2006

It has been said that faan gets some of its funding from Kraft, who owns Planters. Some have speculated that this influences statements coming from faan. There has been much discussion about this. I would suggest a search but I imagine it would be too big to weed thru. Maybe someone who holds this subject dear will link some of those for you.

On Mar 7, 2006

Ok, so since my comment was specifically mentioned in your post, I will reply here. I am the mother of a peanut allergic child, and an egg allergic child. If I take a stand and announce it to the world are you going to take my word as the authority on food allergies? Because I do have the same qualifications.

Yes, they have medical advisors, but I wonder if they have every statement FAAN utters approved by Dr. Sampson and Dr. Wood? Do those doctors feel that one approach fits every single child with a food allergy?

I personally have never in the 6 1/2 years I have been dealing with this allergy said "I'm so happy we have FAAN on our side!"

More often I feel that we are put in the position where we need to fight to overcome something that has been declared by FAAN. They have never seen my child, don't know a thing about him, so I don't think they have the right to tell my school what the best option is for him.

What specifically can you say that FAAN has done to advocate for you? Just curious.

For the record, I haven't asked for a peanut free school, but we do have peanut free classrooms.

On Mar 7, 2006

Funny, I just got through reading that whole thread, too. Lots to think about, for sure!

I don't necessarily have what I would call bad feelings toward FAAN. I just have learned in the last few months as I have been learning more about my DS's FA to take some of what FAAN says with a grain of salt. Sometimes it is much more informative to have the input from the people who experience these things daily.

Here's the issue that has brought me to this: I have read that the top allergy doctors have made statements that don't necessarily apply to all allergic patients, i.e. airborne reactions. While my son has never experienced any, I do believe others when they say that they have or their child has. The problem then is that everyone outside PA community comes to believe it can't happen, based on these doctors' comments.

Our particular issue is the one of whether their is any protein left in oil, peanut oil or soybean oil. Our allergist has ordered stict avoidance. Because "experts" and FAAN state that these "should be safe for most allergic individuals," companies do not have to consider these allergens. While most companies do disclose peanut oil, none that I have seen disclose whether soybean oil was used to make the mono-&/or-diglycerides, MSG, or vitamin E in their ingredients. All those things are usually or can be made from soy, but I only know that from information given by people who are not "the experts." FAAN does sell an ingredient card, but I haven't ordered it. It may list those things, I don't know.

I just feel their stance on the whole oil issue has made my life harder. There literally no premade bread products I can find that I can buy. Not intended as a whine! I just would like for manufacturers to have to include the source of those ingredients. Whew, rereading all this does sound like a whine! Not intended that way!

I know not as many people deal with the soy issue, but it is just an illustration of why I don't wholly trust FAAN. I'm sure they have done so much for the advocacy of food alleries. No doubt! They do have a lot to offer to help food allergic individuals. What I get from reading many posts on here about FAAN is that it seems that many people don't feel that FAAN is the advocate that they could be for individuals who don't fit into the "most allergic people" mold. Like I said before, I don't necessarily have bad feeling towards them. I just don't get excited either way.

I hope this helps shed some light without seeming negative. That is not what I want. I applaud the work that the founder has done.

------------------ Jamie - mom to: dd(13) - NKA; ds(10) - asthma, enviromental allergies; ds(5) - PA/TNA/EA/Soy; enviromental allergies, slight asthma?

On Mar 7, 2006

Hi

Having been around a while, I can tell you that a large part of the negativity towards FAAN is their position that a peanut ban causes a "false sense of security". This has been quoted extensively back to PA parents who are requesting accomodations to have a safer environment for their allergic children. Here is a link to the original discussion where I posted this info: [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/001597.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/001597.html[/url]

Here is a copy of the original information from FAN - reprinted by the CBC in 1999. It is quite brief, but shows why so many people have such negative opinions of FAN...

[url="http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/peanuts/whynotban.html"]http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/peanuts/whynotban.html[/url]

Hope this helps

deb

On Mar 7, 2006

I agree. Anne has, on a few occasions, come across as almost hostile to those "totally hysterical" parents who want "unreasonable" accomodations. This fuels school officials who are just frothing at the mouth for reasons NOT to offer extensive accommodations, even if they are advisable in a particular situation.

My child has more allergies than Anne's, and even has a very severe egg allergy that would require the same kind of accommodations in a school as her PA.

I don't dislike FAAN. They are a good source of information for [i]most[/i] food allergic people. But they need to remember that the word [i]MOST[/i] needs to be in all their statements. Not [i]all[/i].

The oil thing is one I finally called them on... and I really believe that it was my communication with Dr. Taylor that changed the official version of peanut oil being "safe" or not... they finally admitted when I pointed out to them that the concentration he quuoted me (privately) was certainly enough to be within the range of the Italian study available at the time... then they changed that wording to "MOST" which I feel was an important change.

Yes, they are experts, but they also all have their own limitations. I am not intimidated by that. My degree is as good as anyone else's, and it gives me expertise some of them do not have. So when something seems to me to be blatantly wrong (like pn oil being totally devoid of protein) I say so.

But FAAN doesn't always listen.

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

I wish FAAN would make more of an effort to advocate for the use of 504 Plans for students with life-threatening allergies. To me, FAAN seems very wishy-washy on the subject of 504 plans. They could be a lot more supportive.

Cathy

------------------ Mom to 6 1/2 yr old PA/TNA daughter and 3 yr old son who is allergic to eggs.

On Mar 7, 2006

Ok, so I see there are some hard feelings but I guess I just don't understand them.

To answer the question, what has FAAN done to advocate for me.. I really don't EXPECT them to advocate for me. I use FAAN as a resourse. I buy their products, I go to their conferences, I try to educate myself so I can then educate others. When I had a problem with my daughters school and the 504 vs. the americans agains disability act the lawyer at FAAN was extremely helpful. He helped me understand the laws and what I needed to do to help my daughter. FAAN has done a great deal to bring awareness to this condition. While they may not advocate for individuals, I do believe they advocate for the cause.

As far as the peanut oil being safe vs unsafe discussion, Dr. Wood advised all of us NOT to eat anything with peanut oil. He was very clear on this that it would be too difficult to tell if it was denatured or not and he told us not to chance it.

Lastly, on a personal level I do not see the need for a peanut ban. My girls are severly allergic.. they both could have died on us and my younger daughter has been diagnosed as "exquisitely" allergic to peanuts. I find it is more beneficial to educate others on this than to just ban it and hope people understand. My girls' both have peanut free classrooms and we have strict precautions put into place for them. Would I be happy if the school and district went peanut free, sure. But would I feel "safer?" Probably not. I know now that my girls are being properly watched and everyone is on their guard for the slightest thing to be wrong. They all know what to look out for and I have the support of the entire school. Students are well educated, staff is well educated and my girls are very safe. We didn't need to ban peanuts to do it. I truly feel my girls are in a better place this way because they are aware of what to look out for and how to look out for themselves. They never forget they are allergic and they know they need to keep their eyes open to be safe. I can honestly say if I was given a choice to keep the girls where they are or move them to a peanut free school, I would stay put.

My personal opinion is to educate and educate and educate some more rather than to try to ban it. Drugs are supposedly banned yet they are everywhere. Are you going to teach your kids to avoid drugs and why or are you just going to assume because they are illegal your kids are safe? (retorical question) I can't put my kids in a bubble because some day, that bubble will burst and they need to know what to do to help themselves. That's my philosphy. Teach them to take care of themselves, plain and simple.

On Mar 7, 2006

I have nothing but praise and good feelings for FAAN.

They were there for me when there was no internet and I had to do all of my own research and educating my son.

FAAN sent me two videotapes I could not afford to buy at the time. I copied them and sent them back. I had written complaining that the tapes were so important for me to see yet they were so expensive. (at the time)

FAAN provided me and my son with vaulable information to help him get thru many challenging times in his life including new schools, summer camp, college, and travel abroad.

It's OK with me if FAAN wants to be in cahoots with the peanut people. Someone has to. They are not going to stop growing peanuts and if we work together with the peanut people maybe eventually we can come to some good.

I know that ALL of us here want that good to be tomorrow but it is not going to happen that quickly.

I will always support FAAN.

Peggy

On Mar 7, 2006

I dislike FAAN because schools seem to look to them as THE authority - and who says they should be? They do, but so what? Can I just go out tomorrow and form the Absolute Last Word on Peanut Allergy Safety Committee and expect everyone to bow to my will on the matter?

Their 'false sense of security' argument is what gets on my nerves the absolute most. Why is it ok to advocate against a false sense of security for peanut allergies, but when it comes to crosswalks, metal detectors, gun bans, or any other thing that is implemented in school to help reduce the risk but not necessarily guarantee the risk is zero? They take a big all-or-nothing stance and it drives me crazy. Peanut bans would lesson peanut allergen and that would be a good thing. It would not give ME a false sense of security. Their arrogance in setting themselves up as Authority #1, and the sheeplike schools and media who blindly follow them, annoy the **** out of me. I am also not entirely convinced that their peanut money funding doesn't influence some of their statements. Some of the stuff they issue seems so slap-in-the-face to parents trying to safeguard their allergic children. With friends like these, who needs enemies...

On Mar 7, 2006

Let me add that I do not see how people take the stance that keeping more peanut allergen out of school does not make it a safer school. Less peanut allergen = less likelihood my daughter will come into contact with it. Period. Education is fine and dandy, but my daughter and her friends and teachers can have all the education in the world about the condition but if there is allergen all over the playground monkey bars, the bathroom stall doors, the cafeteria in the air, the classroom, and everywhere else in the school because peanuts are allowed everywhere...and my daughter can't be educated to the point of being able to detect every microscopic peanut particle all over everything - how will that help, exactly? It's not logical in practical terms to place education over less allergen. Less peanut allergen is better.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b]Let me add that I do not see how people take the stance that keeping more peanut allergen out of school does not make it a safer school. Less peanut allergen = less likelihood my daughter will come into contact with it. Period. Education is fine and dandy, but my daughter and her friends and teachers can have all the education in the world about the condition but if there is allergen all over the playground monkey bars, the bathroom stall doors, the cafeteria in the air, the classroom, and everywhere else in the school because peanuts are allowed everywhere...and my daughter can't be educated to the point of being able to detect every microscopic peanut particle all over everything - how will that help, exactly? It's not logical in practical terms to place education over less allergen. Less peanut allergen is better. [/b]

SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided.

On Mar 7, 2006

This is the same argument that non-PA parents constantly throw out... *sigh*... the fact is that we have many mystery reactions living in the RESTRICTED way that we do... we have decided (with her) that we need to use the mystery reactions (aerosol and contact in places that should be food-free) to let her learn management strategy.

I can't answer for anyone else, but only for our situation.

Which involves NOT going to other people's houses much, not taking DD to the grocery store, not going to sporting events, not going to restaurants, not going to public parks (as a general rule), not, not, not.

So yes, we do keep my daughter in a bubble. We feel we have to. So that she can LEARN how to manage her allergy. Because if she were in places where she routintely could come into contact with pn protein, we couldn't afford to let her make mistakes as she learns. So we keep her in a restricted environment because it is the only way that we can allow her to manage things herself. I don't see it as really any different from using internet controls and not allowing "private" internet time with your children...sure its artificial. But hey, they're KIDS. They don't have the greatest judgement-- that's what we're there for, right?

Can I ask what's up with this general topic over the last couple of days, Samirosenjacken? Why isn't it okay for other people to have a different opinion? More specifically, a more conservative approach. Nobody is saying you are making the wrong choices for your own family. Nobody is saying your child is "less allergic" or anything like that.

Has something come up that rubbed you the wrong way? You seem kinda cranked up, relative to normal. (I don't mean that negatively... really I don't. I enjoy hearing how you manage your own situation. You just seem grumpy, that's all, and I am hoping that nothing is wrong.)

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 7, 2006

good question but I don't think I am grumpier than normal [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I usually stay away from these posts and the longer threads b/c I don't have time to read them but I guess the attack agains FAAN kinda got to me. I feel fortunate that we even have a group like FAAN to go to. When I started all this with my daughter who was 4 and just going to school, I felt so lost and alone and totally ignorant on the subject of food allergies. I also felt "hysterical" about it and became somewhat of a peanut nazi. I didn't even know FAAN existed. But with support from friends, starting a support group in my town and learning about FAAN, I learned how not to be hysterical and how to manage the allergy so my kids aren't hysterical. I guess I felt like I controlled the allergy instead of the allergy controlling me. So if I am grumpy I apologize. I just felt that the attacks on FAAN were unwarranted.

On Mar 7, 2006

See, here is what I am trying to get to. Everyone deals with their allergies differently. FAAN works for you, you agree with their approach. Others deal with allergies differently and don't agree with FAAN. But, because they have somehow become established as the authority, some of us resent the fact that they have a one size fits all approach.

On Mar 7, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided. [/b]

IMO, here's the difference b/w the scenarios you mentioned and school. 1) The adult to student ratio is much smaller in schools. Therefore, there would not be someone constantly eyeing my child because there are so many children to watch over. If I take my child to the mall, the grocery store, or wherever, I'm with my child. I watch him quite frequently wherever we go.

2) In all the places you outlined, the population does not have the same makeup as school, where there are tons of kids, all eating, and potentially carrying residue from what they're eating throughout the school. Again, no parents in place to clean them up if they happen to be messy eaters. The younger the kids, the messier the eaters right?

Sure, some kids will be present in grocery stores for example. And, some of those kids will be eating. But there will also be other people, not kids, and most likely not eating. And, those kids in grocery stores or ball games will be in their own space, not sitting next to my child eating something they're allergic to. Also if I'm with my child, I can easily remove them from what I feel is dangerous.

At school, I'd have to rely on my child to move themselves (which as they get older is a completely reasonable expectation) or the teacher to take care of it. Again, the ratio of students to kids bugs me in this scenario.

I'm definitely all for a food free classroom, and peanut products being removed from school menus. I'm not against bans..but not sure I'd push for one either. IMO, reducing the risk is most definitely the way to go. You can still educate your kids and the school about safety and being on guard.

I support FAAN in general, but I don't support their position on bans, and also think they could be more supportive of 504 plans. And my ds has allergies to milk and egg too...the less food he's allergic to around him, I feel the safer he is.

Climbing down from my soap box now....Meg

On Mar 7, 2006

Thanks for explaining, Samirosenjacken. I understand completely. I am glad that FAAN was so helpful to you. I hope that you don't think we are all just FAAN-bashing... it isn't at all what I intend.

We were directed to FAAN as well, but we didn't find that they could tell us anything we didn't already know. (But we had the resources of a university library and research center at our disposal... this clearly isn't the norm.)

We needed information about how to identify cross-contaminated products that are not well-labeled. How to find safe food products when your child is allergic to five of the big eight... Not how to read labels. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

We felt very "left out" by FAAN because all along, it has been made pretty clear to us that we aren't the people FAAN is "speaking" to/for...so we have kind of been neutral in terms of opinion about them.

I think they do very good things for people who need what they have to offer. Their visibility and outreach efforts are AWESOME. I only became "hysterical" when I realized that they weren't talking about [i]my kid[/i] when they said she should be able to tolerate oils... and that aerosol reactions are a myth... and that if you are diagnosed with more than 2 food allergies you probably aren't really allergic... etc etc. It felt very lonely to know that the only organization for "us" didn't acknowledge some of the very real problems we were faced with. It seemed like they only dealt with things we [i]didn't[/i] need help with. I felt more alone after I went through all that was available from them... it was a sense of [i]WHAT??? This is all the help there is?? But this isn't about my child...[/i]

I began to feel as if there were no other children like mine and that she was a freak who was destined for death via Darwinian law in action... That made me feel terrible. The last straw was the death of another PA child... and the news story brought me here, where I finally found other people who knew my story because it was also their story.

As I mentioned before, I think that FAAN tends to speak for the more moderately allergic or the singly food allergic. This is fine, since for the FA community at the moment, this is the middle of the distribution. I know this. This is true of almost all the help that is out there, though, so it isn't really a criticism. (shrug) It just explains why I am supportive, but a little tepid in my feelings. I don't agree with the one-size-fits-all approach that they encourage/espouse, whatever... and there are many things I wish they did better, but I am glad very glad that they are there.

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

(darned spelling!!)

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited March 07, 2006).]

On Mar 8, 2006

I would have to second the sentiment that school is a very artificial environment compared to other environments my child is in. What do you suppose the percentage of peanut butter and peanut-product-eating kids are per capita in a school is versus what you would find out in the environment? I submit it would be much higher. The whole point is this is not an allergy to sauerkraut - if it were, this would never come up. It's the volume of kids eating the stuff en masse every day in a school with no restricitons in place that is the big problem. The other environments, also, are optional but I feel school is an actual RIGHT my child has. Also, in agreement with the other poster, I can be nearby my child and control the situation but not so in school. There is a huge, huge difference. I feel in fact that bans would bring schools more in line with the normal baseline amount of peanut allergen that my child would encounter outside of school in other areas. I would not expect perfection, but taking the peanut-everywhere thing down would be a great, great improvement.

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] SO, I am guessing your child does not leave the house ever? She doesn't go to other people's homes? Doesn't go to playgrounds? Restaurants? Movie theaters? The mall? Church? Everywhere you go once you leave your home you run the risk of coming in contact with the allergen. Do you wipe down the jungle gym at the park or isn't she allowed to play? Does she wear a rubber suit and mask to the grocery store? I guess I just don't understand how you can avoid the allergen totally and completely. I see how you can minimize contact, which is what we do at school, but it can never be totally avoided. [/b]

Quote:

Originally posted by mommyofmatt[b]: IMO, here's the difference b/w the scenarios you mentioned and school. 1) The adult to student ratio is much smaller in schools. Therefore, there would not be someone constantly eyeing my child because there are so many children to watch over. If I take my child to the mall, the grocery store, or wherever, I'm with my child. I watch him quite frequently wherever we go.

2) In all the places you outlined, the population does not have the same makeup as school, where there are tons of kids, all eating, and potentially carrying residue from what they're eating throughout the school. Again, no parents in place to clean them up if they happen to be messy eaters. The younger the kids, the messier the eaters right?

Sure, some kids will be present in grocery stores for example. And, some of those kids will be eating. But there will also be other people, not kids, and most likely not eating. And, those kids in grocery stores or ball games will be in their own space, not sitting next to my child eating something they're allergic to. Also if I'm with my child, I can easily remove them from what I feel is dangerous.

At school, I'd have to rely on my child to move themselves (which as they get older is a completely reasonable expectation) or the teacher to take care of it. Again, the ratio of students to kids bugs me in this scenario.[/b]

what samirosenjacken asked is essentially what a school district asked me previously. With their lawyer present. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

I replied (back in first grade) and paraphrased:

[i]"When my child goes out in public, aside from school, he is either with myself, my husband or both. I'm an RN, my husband a paramedic/firefighter. One to one or [b]Two to one[/b] professional care. Are you saying that [b]in school[/b] that is the Professional Standard of Care you will be providing my son to navigate your school safely?"[/i]

It was met with [i]silence[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

And you know, he's now 10 and aside from school, [i]the Professional Standard of Care[/i] in public is still pretty much the same. I mean, I don't let my child roam the public thoroughfare, alone, period, at age 10. PA aside, even.

But maybe that's just me.

[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 08, 2006).]

On Mar 8, 2006

Now that said, I posted in another thread:

"[i]Although that said, he's had mystery coughs that just happen to excacerbate in the lunch room. Anywhere in the lunch room. Especially during lunch. It's not all the time, but pretty frequent. But that is the extent of them there. What am I going to do? remove him from his life? every "what if" situation? (NO ADVICE, I COULD BE AN AWFUL MOM. A BAD MOMMY. A HORRENDOUS RISK TAKER WITH A LIFE NOT EVEN MY OWN.)But I digress.[/i]"

.......I have not went to the public thoroughfare, but it is comming to me.

It's a quandry I find myself in. He has a one-to-one aide (not rn, not paramedic) and he sits at the end of the table, and those with obvious peanut products are moved away (seats switched, and the children pretty much look out for this as well as the staff and his aide), but it's not a [i]perfect world[/i], now, is it?

That said, there is some faith, and prayer, and even anguish involved. I mean, [i]that's life[/i]. Or the cost of having one.

But maybe that's just me.

Banning peanut protein from my cub's lunch room? I don't see how it can be done. There's four hundred children eating. (at *first lunch* only, even) There's *at most* 20 minutes to eat. There's probably 5 lunch room attendants. I wouldn't depend on *their* label reading anyway. And whose to say it's peanut butter, soy butter, or sun butter? Besides, I don't really think it's *normal* for 400 children to have their lunches *inspected* before they consume them. But maybe that's just me. Do I want them equating my child with *that*? And who is *qualified* to do that anyway? And four hundred is just taking into consideration *first* lunch. The school has nearly 1200 students.

General Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. No way. Just describing my own personal, highly individual, and possibly unique situation. and level of individual responsibility. And anguish. And cost. Individual Mileage May Vary. But someday, God-willing, my child *will* navigate independently. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] It's not an option not to.

On Mar 8, 2006

Some people like Internet Explorer.

Some don't.

Some people don't mind the majority's 'wording', some DO mind it.

kwim?

I have no problem with FAAN.

Jason

------------------ [b]* Obsessed * [/b]

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b]. What do you suppose the percentage of peanut butter and peanut-product-eating kids are per capita in a school is versus what you would find out in the environment? I submit it would be much higher. [/b]

Well, I can tell you in our school where both my girls go, very very RARELY does a child bring a pbj sandwich or do they get one of the prepackaged uncrustables from the cafeteria. I was just there today and not one of my daughter's classmates had a sandwich or bought one. They either had something from home (non peanut related) or bought lunch. Our cafeteria does not sell anything with pb (cookies etc) and doesn't make pbj on the premises. They don't even sell "may contains" and I know this for a fact b/c I review all their snacks! So I can honestly say their exposure is very limited at least in my dd's class. Now, every child and parent in the class knows about Sam so they don't send in pb stuff. The kids don't want it, don't ask for it and actually ask their parents NOT to send it. So I can say she's safer there than other places!

On Mar 8, 2006

Ahhh then you are one of the lucky ones. In my school they serve PB&J as the alternate option EVERY DAY.

On Mar 8, 2006

I do not think that FAAN should be so general in saying it gives a false sense of security to ban peanuts. For example, GUNS, DRUGS and other things are banned from schools and there are Drug free zones for them. Do drug deals still go down within the zone, do kids still buy drugs in school? I think so. Do we all feel that our kids are safe from drugs and guns while at school? Probably not. My feeling about banning peanuts from school is that it should be considered. Especially when you consider Middle and High School where kids have more freedom and are eating in places other than a cafeteria. What about during other times when PTO meetings, Town Board Meetings, Sporting Events are going on at the schools during non school times. People are eating all kinds of stuff in many areas of the school. Moms are selling baked goods with nuts all over them and they are consumed everywhere. If it became the norm that you do not eat nuts at school or bring them to functions, it would really make a difference in being able to avoid the contact reactions and would make them safer for our PA kids. I allowed my son to participate in wrestling. there were probably 150 kids participating at the meets. Parents and siblings were in the bleachers. Kids seemed to be eating PB & Nutty candy EVERYWHERE. It was uncomfortable for me and my child. If there was a ban, there would be less chance for kids who are allergic to have contact reactions.

On Mar 8, 2006

The problem I have with FAAN is that they take such a one-position-fits-all approach. One of the big lessons I have learned from my child's PA (& her GT/LD status in school, but that is another matter), is that I have had to confront my trait of dismissing unusual experiences that I have not personally had as wrong/hysterical/just-plain-BS. Before the PA diagnosis, I was one of those peope who secretly (& not-so-secretly) believed that the parents who were so concerned about their children's allergies were completely out of control & should just get a life. Big shock to find out how little could trigger a reaction. So I have learned how important it is to remember that what works for me may not work for others, even though our children have the same 'PA' label to the world.

So, for me personally, I am OK w/ not having a peanut ban in my child's school. But I would not be comfortable saying that *no* school should have it & that is how FAAN's positions on the subject have been used.

And the whole 'false sense of security' thing is just a argument constructed to bolster the position they were looking to support. There is no way I believe that a PA child -- any PA child -- wouldn't be at least somewhat safer w/ a ban on peanuts in place. And, along the lines of looking at where FAAN gets its funding, I have to wonder *why* they took that position. (Having a PA child has not gotten rid of my cycnicism, apparently!)

Anne (who is going back to lurker status... 2 posts in 1 day has worn me out.)

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] Well, I can tell you in our school where both my girls go, very very RARELY does a child bring a pbj sandwich or do they get one of the prepackaged uncrustables from the cafeteria. I was just there today and not one of my daughter's classmates had a sandwich or bought one. They either had something from home (non peanut related) or bought lunch. Our cafeteria does not sell anything with pb (cookies etc) and doesn't make pbj on the premises. They don't even sell "may contains" and I know this for a fact b/c I review all their snacks! So I can honestly say their exposure is very limited at least in my dd's class. Now, every child and parent in the class knows about Sam so they don't send in pb stuff. The kids don't want it, don't ask for it and actually ask their parents NOT to send it. So I can say she's safer there than other places!

[/b]

It's nice you have a cafeteria that sells lunch. And a cafeteria that limits peanut and nut products. It's probably even nicer when children can afford to purchase items from that cafeteria.

I'll share my situation. I won't be presumptuous in assuming other situations are as mine is. I live in a fast growing area. Actually, the growth rate is phenominal. We have two highschools in my district. Two more being built or started by 2008. A new junior high school going up. The bond for the two new high schools is $225 million. Not including the junior high. Currently the two existing highschools house nearly 7000 students.

Needless to say the schools in the district are large and highly populated. (Would you believe the school my children attend is only 4 years old and they are currently building an addition??)

Houses in the district probably range in price from 180,000 to 1.5 million. Across the street from me, even. Probably with equal percentages of price brackets. Probably more near the one million dollar mark. I'm near the middle.

Personally? I couldn't afford to feed both my children on a daily basis from a "cafeteria lunch". Don't know if I'd want to, food allergies or not. If we had a "cafeteria lunch program", that is. The "milk bill" is enough. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] To my knowledge, the grade schools, and middle schools do not have a cafeteria that sells food. Don't know about highschool and Jr. High yet.

My cubs school offers "hot lunch" (fast food (yuck) brought in for a slightly reduced cost) once or twice a month for each grade. Don't know about you, but how often does my child need Mcwhat'shisface?

So aside from the very, very, occassional "hot lunch" offering (and "treat day"---more goodies---offered once a month to each grade) one cannot purchase lunch at the K-6th grade level schools in my district, including the one my child attends. There was, however, a very limited lunch program at a school my child attended out of district previously. Don't know if it was "safe" or not, but there was plenty of Peanut butter brought in.

So, my point? Personally? I think I would find "cafeteria lunches" unaffordable for both my children on a daily basis. I think many other parents might as well. So, my situation? Parents in my district at the grade school and middle school level [i]send lunches in[/i]. Guess what? PB is a [i]favorite[/i]. LOL. Even in my neighborhood. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Maybe we are all house poor. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I mean, I don't think it's a "class" issue either. I think a lot of families use peanut butter as a lunch staple. Regardless of what is on their W-2 forms. Or how much their home costs. Or how many cars they have for that matter. But I could be wrong.

But hey, if my children liked it,(PB) could eat it (weren't allergic), and if my school did not "ban" it (LOL-they don't), I'd probably be sending it every now and then as well. Or at least keep it around for those days when I am out of lunch meat or cheese. (My children look forward to the "sandwich" part of their lunch and are "picky eaters". ) As a child, it was often part of my own lunch. I liked it. Although as an adult, I didn't eat much of it.

But yes, it sounds very nice that you live where there is a cafeteria providing food on a daily basis and that tries to limit nuts and peanut. And where the vast majority of people can afford to purchase such. Or am I hearing you wrong? Please correct me if I am. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

~no advice.

On Mar 8, 2006

I am only jumping in to say, that I wish I was at your kids school. Yes, we have great parents in my son's class. Nice kids, that look out for my son. In fact, that is how my son and I find out about how much peanut butter they all are eating at lunch, and how it is all over their hands -- and last week, one little girl got it all over her hands, didn't know it, and then proceeded to touch her head -- getting it all over her hair. But for the children standing in line in the hallway, waiting to go into the classroom after lunch, DS and I wouldn't know about all of the PB that gets all over these kids. This is why we still take him home for lunch. We have talked to the school, presentations to all the staff, to all the parents, fliers sent home to all of the parents in his class, taking on making food for all of the stuff that comes up, doing what we can think of, short of begging on our hands and knees for people to please not send stuff that will kill our son --- and we are met with lots of hands covered in peanut butter. Granted, that may be exaggerated, but at the very least -- once a week one kid will tell my son that they had peanut butter for lunch, and they touched so-and-so, so that my son shouldn't touch either of them (oh - but be comforted because they washed their hands).

And lastly -- as to FAAN -- I see both sides of the coin. When I had nowhere -- FAAN was at least on the other side of the phone, not thinking I was a looney tune, and had information & supplies relevant to FA's. Yes, I would like more of a voice advocating 504's from them. I mean, it would have been fantastic if they had even a little pamphlet that they sent with your order that said,"Have a child with Food Allergies -- Start Working on Your 504 NOW -- Don't Wait Until They Start School!!"

edited to add that I was responding to samirosenjacken -- not the bunch of posts that got in faster than I could type or think!! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by gvmom (edited March 08, 2006).]

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b]Ahhh then you are one of the lucky ones. [/b]

you said it better than I did. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 8, 2006

"Ahhh then you are one of the lucky ones. In my school they serve PB&J as the alternate option EVERY DAY."

Mine as well, they make them there, they don't have premade and prepacked crustables delivered either.

My child is able to sit next to another child who is eating pb without reacting. Not all pa children are. The only accomodations I have seen the school make are sending home memos at the beginning of each year in my daughters class ONLY that there is a pa child in the class so please dont send in pa products. Of course the parents all send in bakery goods anyway that she cannot eat because we (nor the parents) really know the ingredients of.

Fann is fine for information, unfortunately its used as a weapon against pa parents in many cases.

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken:[/b] Our cafeteria does not sell anything with pb (cookies etc) and doesn't make pbj on the premises. They don't even sell "may contains" and I know this for a fact b/c I review all their snacks[/b]

Do you consider this a "ban"?

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b] In my school they serve PB&J as the alternate option EVERY DAY.[/b]

PB was taken off the Federal Brown Bag Lunch Program offered in our district. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

One school my child attended briefly had a considerable number of participants before the option was removed from our district offering, but participation is now somewhat non-existent in the school my children now attends or will attend next year. I'm not sure if the decline was an income issue, or a preference issue. Or if there was never a significant number of participants at the school my children now attend to begin with.

~no advice.

On Mar 8, 2006

I'm not even sure if the program is offered to all income brackets either. Or if it is, if it is offered at variable rates.

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b]In my school they serve PB&J as the alternate option EVERY DAY.[/b]

Ours too [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

On Mar 8, 2006

In my school they serve PB&J as the alternate option EVERY DAY.

Tell them to stop it!

On Mar 8, 2006

See, in some quarters... "ask them to stop it" = "BAN." [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] FAAN doesn't support that. False sense of security and all.

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

On Mar 8, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]While they may not advocate for individuals, I do believe they advocate for the cause. [/b]

Would you please explain to me how FAAN's anti-ban stance advocates for "the cause"? That's where I have trouble with FAAN. I pose this as a sincere question to which I genuinely hope you will respond: How does proclaiming an anti-ban position (an unfounded, unstudied claim) "advocate" for the cause of food allergies?

FAAN is not neutral on the topic of banning. FAAN is very vocal about opposing bans. There are many, many newspaper articles, magazine articles and journal articles (some that Ann M-F has authored herself) in which FAAN claims that "bans don't work". They used one very limited study to support this claim, which FAAN later removed from its website due to the criticism of the study. However, FAAN continued to state "bans don't work" while not producing any data nor evidence that substantiates this assertion. [i] Nada. [/i] With no evidence, and without studying the ways in which some schools HAVE successfully banned peanuts, they still continue to assert the "bans don't work". By making this unsubstantiated claim, FAAN undermines the child's parent and the child's physician determining what is in the best interest of that child.

Like you, I *personally* don't want a "ban" at my daughter's school. But food is still very monitored and restricted. (For example, we had "FOOD free" classrooms at our elementary school. ) Currently we essentially have a "partial ban" at the Middle School.

But because *I* don't feel a full ban is necessary for *my child* does that make me opposed to bans for *everyone's* PA child? Of course not.

I think it's inappropriate for FAAN to make claims regarding bans without providing the evidence substantiating the claim. I wish FAAN would stop making "anti-ban" statements and make statements "advocating" that decisions regarding food restrictions in school should be made on an individual basis with the input of the child's parent(s) and the child's physician.

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited March 08, 2006).]

On Mar 9, 2006

But yes, it sounds very nice that you live where there is a cafeteria providing food on a daily basis and that tries to limit nuts and peanut. And where the vast majority of people can afford to purchase such. Or am I hearing you wrong? Please correct me if I am. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Well, where you live could be where I live. IN fact, I wondered if you did live in my town. We have the same situation here with the growing population. Where my DD's go to school is the 5th elementary school to be built in the district with plans to build yet another. We've just added a 2nd kindergarten center and there is building for a 3rd middle school and a 2nd high school. Homes pretty much value from the low 200's to million plus.

That said, I don't find buyng lunch that bad. I think it's $1.25 a day or something. I know some kids buy every day where others pack every day. But, yes they offer lunches every single day at our elementary schools and above.. a hot lunch choice and a cold lunch choice plus fruit and milk. Does that answer your question I hope??

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] Do you consider this a "ban"?[/b]

Hmm... I don't think I would consider them not selling pb stuff and "may contains" a ban because it was their choice not my request.

I think how it played out was simply because of education to be totally honest. The school was brand new. My daughter was entering in her 2nd year. I talked extensively with the nurse and principal. They came to the decision it was just better sense all around to pick items that didn't have nuts or peanuts. They made the choices from their vendor. I don't know if other schools in the district do the same but I think they might. So the choice to buy other foods was theirs.. not mine. They still serve cookies and ice cream etc.. yesterday they had a bake sale with peanuts galore right in the cafeteria.. The nurse stood guard by the table, I went in to sit with my 7yr for lunch and her classmates were instructed if they bought anything they couldn't sit at the peanut free table and they needed to wash their hands with soap and water immediately. All first graders did as told and Sam didn't even get a hive!! That was a big shocker!

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Gail W: [b] Would you please explain to me how FAAN's anti-ban stance advocates for "the cause"? That's where I have trouble with FAAN. I pose this as a sincere question to which I genuinely hope you will respond: How does proclaiming an anti-ban position (an unfounded, unstudied claim) "advocate" for the cause of food allergies?

I don't actually see how FAAN could advocate for a ban for food allergies. How on earth are you going to ban every allergen? Yes, peanuts are more prevelant yada yada.. but I know a little girl who could die if milk was splashed on her or if she ate an egg or a piece of shrimp. So how can we ban milk from the schools? Do we tell kids they can only have water or juice at lunch? What about the child allergic to red dye? Do we wipe out all red dye? Then the poor child who is allergic to wheat or soy or eggs... how can FAAN support a ban for one allergen without supporting a ban for all??

Personally, I just can't see how it would work. I also don't know what they would base their decision on. Many here have said that their children fall "outside" the norm with their reactions. So they want FAAN to support a ban based on these kids. AS a mother, I understand that thought. Logically, I just don't know how they would take a stand on that. I know they support peanut free tables. I know they support "reasonable accomodations." I guess I don't see them as "anti ban" but I don't see them as "pro ban" either. Personally, I think every parent needs to make their own decisions for their own kids based on their own needs.

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited March 08, 2006).][/b]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]

[quote][b]Well, where you live could be where I live. IN fact, I wondered if you did live in my town. We have the same situation here with the growing population. Where my DD's go to school is the 5th elementary school to be built in the district with plans to build yet another. We've just added a 2nd kindergarten center and there is building for a 3rd middle school and a 2nd high school. Homes pretty much value from the low 200's to million plus.[/b]

I live in a Chicagoland suburb. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img] But hey, we're looking to move south.....NC? Wonder how much you get for your housing dollar there? It's not alot here. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] I mean, I could very well live in a "million plus" home and not feel like it was indulgent. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

We'll soon have four High-Schools in this suburban district and yes, they probably will soon announce yet another elementary school(s). But I digress.

1.25 a day. (I remember paying that when *I* was a child for Hot Lunch--here--where I live.) I'm thinking it would be more like $3 or $4 or $5 per individual here, depending on the type of offering. And if they "shop" from selections??? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img] But I could be wrong. Is your lunch program subsidized? Treat day here costs around a dollar, (either an ice cream bar, donut, etc...) and the "Hot lunch" offering" once a month around three. That, for instance consists of a "hamburger, juice box, chips". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Quote:

[b]That said, I don't find buyng lunch that bad. I think it's $1.25 a day or something. I know some kids buy every day where others pack every day. But, yes they offer lunches every single day at our elementary schools and above.. a hot lunch choice and a cold lunch choice plus fruit and milk. Does that answer your question I hope??[/b]

[b]a $1.25 a day. [/b] Around 25 dollars per month? per child? For me, that would be 50 dollars per month. And someday, 75 dollars per month. That's a lot for some people. Sure it costs to buy "bag lunch" items for home, but that can be modified day to day. I mean, there's always something I can hook my child up with that he likes. Even when I'm short the funds. For instance, the last four days I've been penniless. In my pocket, I mean. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I'm waiting for payday. I have an eight a tank of gas. If that. (Just finished paying the heating bill, missed a lot of work last pay period home with two sick children (one home for a week, the other home for a week + prescriptions---oh, ____, just cost of living in general. It's feast or famine around here. There's always something.) But I've had plenty on hand for lunches. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I generally buy the "buy one get one free" items. Would have to see what they offer and the price. But I'm guessing "1.25" might not be my cost, or that what's offerred might not be as good as what I can pack. Nutritionally, or otherwise. And remember, I have two picky eaters. An apple, is not an apple, is not an apple. It has to be a [i]certain apple[/i]. I mean, in spite of the new "guidelines" (translate=non-mandatory?) in the "Local Wellness Policies".

And when the vending machines come into play, I'll probably have to start sending him with some cash. I mean, bottled water in the teacher's lounge is 1.25 per bottle. So, I'm guessing that the pricing may be similiar. I send water from home, but who knows what might be offerred to an ever hungry, growing child?

I don't doubt for a minute there might be others who find themselves in a similiar situation. I've never had it in me to demand of others what they might send in their child's lunch. But *I* wouldn't be counting on a "lunch program" to offer me solution. KWIM? **************************************************

[b]Gail[/b]: Could you share around how much "lunch" from Chartwells was costing per student? **************************************************

~no advice. just wondering.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] Hmm... I don't think I would consider them not selling pb stuff and "may contains" a ban because it was their choice not my request.

[/b]

are those items [i]allowed on the menu[/i]? Or is this a "silent ban", a "ban by exclusion". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]I know they support peanut free tables. [/b]

maybe they need to get someone who is an "expert" in Special Education Law on their team of advisors?

On Mar 9, 2006

"Tell them to stop it!"

um, ok, that should do it [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Kidding aside, my oldest who is PA has never bought lunch, she brings it every day. She is an extremely picky eater on top of being PA so she basically has the same thing every day. Again, she does not react to contact or nearness of pbj.

The alternative lunch everyday is PBJ. I forgot to add they do have a peanut free table in place for one of the grades, the only kid whose parents wanted it is in that grade. My child was so shy and had a lot of social issues when we started at this school that we didn't want to have her further segregated at a seperate table. None of the other PA kids in the school has sensitivity to pbj being nearby or smell. So far.

I think our district uses chartwell also. Our bought lunches are 2.00$. My youngest loves buying lunch,

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] are those items [i]allowed on the menu[/i]? Or is this a "silent ban", a "ban by exclusion". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img][/b]

Gosh, I have no clue how they do it. These are usually snacks they pick. They decide if they'll serve popcorn, doritos, potato chips etc..

Here's an example of what they do. Cookies were sold as a snack. A little boy with a tree nut allergy bought them. I found out that afternoon that the cookies had a "may contains" warning label and the school didn't realize it. They have chosen to have another cookie take it's place.

Is that a BAN? I wouldn't say so. They just choose to buy a product that doesn't have the label. If they couldn't find one, I'd bet they would still serve the one with the label.

They don't make pbj on the premises, but it is available as an uncrustable. SO PB is still available, they have just chosen to serve it prepackaged instead.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] Gosh, I have no clue how they do it. These are usually snacks they pick. They decide if they'll serve popcorn, doritos, potato chips etc..

Here's an example of what they do. Cookies were sold as a snack. A little boy with a tree nut allergy bought them. I found out that afternoon that the cookies had a "may contains" warning label and the school didn't realize it. They have chosen to have another cookie take it's place.

Is that a BAN? I wouldn't say so. They just choose to buy a product that doesn't have the label. If they couldn't find one, I'd bet they would still serve the one with the label.

They don't make pbj on the premises, but it is available as an uncrustable. SO PB is still available, they have just chosen to serve it prepackaged instead. [/b]

so if an [i]alternative can be found[/i] certain items are "banned", and pbj is not allowed to be [i]prepared[/i] on the premises?

I mean, I've asked for quite some time how "bans" are implemented in certain situations.

Thank you for explaining. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Gail W: FAAN is not neutral on the topic of banning. FAAN is very vocal about opposing bans. There are many, many newspaper articles, magazine articles and journal articles (some that Ann M-F has authored herself) in which FAAN claims that "bans don't work". They used one very limited study to support this claim, which FAAN later removed from its website due to the criticism of the study. [b] However, FAAN continued to state "bans don't work" while not producing any data nor evidence that substantiates this assertion. [i] Nada. [/i] With no evidence, and without studying the ways in which some schools HAVE successfully banned peanuts, they still continue to assert the "bans don't work". By making this unsubstantiated claim, FAAN undermines the child's parent and the child's physician determining what is in the best interest of that child.[/b]

bold added.

I mean, [b]evidence based practice[/b].

[url="http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcix.htm"]http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcix.htm[/url]

General Disclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy, currentness, or content of the link in this post. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]I guess I don't see them as "anti ban" but I don't see them as "pro ban" either. Personally, I think every parent needs to make their own decisions for their own kids based on their own needs.[/b]

Huh? FAAN is absolutely "anti ban". I hope that you'll take some time to research this so that you can be certain of the facts. Do a google search, look here on the boards; the information is available to you if you choose to look.

I think we (samirosenjacken) basically agree with one another on the topic of "bans" in principle~ that such decisions need to be made by the parent in consultation with the physician. But I hope you'll research and see [i]this is [b]not [/b]what FAAN promotes on the t opic of bans.[/i] FAAN has provided [b]only "anti ban" statements [/b]and has not provided new or [i]revised [/i] statements.. nor has FAAN promoted/conducted [i]research[/i] that objectively studies the issue of bans or partial bans in schools.

[b]When I came to the school's table to negotiate accommodations for my PA child, the school came armed with multiple articles in which FAAN states "bans don't work." FAAN was used "against" me. [/b]

This is a problem for me and many others.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b]**************************************************

[b]Gail[/b]: Could you share around how much "lunch" from Chartwells was costing per student? ************************************************** [/b]

This is not *my* school district, but the prices that are stated on their Chartwell's menu are the same as at my DD's school. ( $1.60 ) My DD's school has a fresh daily salad bar that she loves. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[url="http://www.fhsd.k12.mo.us/parents/qh/lunchmenu.asp"]http://www.fhsd.k12.mo.us/parents/qh/lunchmenu.asp[/url]

On Mar 9, 2006

Thank you Gail. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Now if my school cafeteria *had* a kitchen. I mean, besides a sink and freezer/refrigerator. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] (And it's only 4 years old) I guess they weren't planning on serving food?

That said, not quite sure it would be accessible to *all* persons attending. Even if they have *one* child. One mother I volunteer with has 7 children. Four or more seem to be the "norm". But I could be wrong.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] so if an [i]alternative can be found[/i] certain items are "banned", and pbj is not allowed to be [i]prepared[/i] on the premises?

I mean, I've asked for quite some time how "bans" are implemented in certain situations.

Thank you for explaining. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[/b]

Ok, I guess I just don't see it as a "ban" According to websters dictionary, BAN is defined as: To prohibit, especially by official decree. See Synonyms at forbid.

This isn't the case at my school with reference to the cafeteria. There is no "offical decree" and the food is not "FORBIDDEN" For whatever reason they chose not to prepare pbj on the premises and serve it pre packaged. I don't see it as a BAN. They have chosen one food over another.. that is a "ban" it is a choice and as I stated, if they couldn't find an alternative, I am sure they would have served the ones with the labeling. Maybe it has nothing to do with labeling and has everything to do with cost. I haven't a clue. But I would not say that my school has any ban in place... with the exception of my dds' classrooms. Both rooms have "banned" peanuts and nuts. It is clearly forbidden by offical decreee (and a 504 plan) that no allergen be knowingly brought into their rooms in any way.

On Mar 9, 2006

Gail this is what I found on google:

As an alternative to all-out food bans, FAN suggests establishing peanut-free or milk-free tables in the school cafeteria and a no-food-trading policy. Don't use food in class projects, or as incentives or rewards, and monitor the food that comes into school for class celebrations.

I'm sorry but I don't see this as a major "anti ban" stance. Just my opinion on the matter. And as I stated before, I happen to agree with them that bans aren't going to solve the problems we face as parents of food allergic children. If a school chooses to go peanut/nut free, I salute them.. I commend them.. I respect them. If they don't, as long as they are willing to allow the parents to enforce accomodations to ensure the safety of their children, I can support that too.

I saw first hand what happens when a school tries to enforce a "ban." My DD went to our kindergarten center which was "peanut free." It was the only school in the district that was. On the 3rd year of it being "peanut free" parents exploded. They were livid they couldn't bring peanut products to school. They were furious they couldn't bring home baked cupcakes to school (the k center forbid them b/c of the chance of cross contamination). An uproar occured with one parent actually stating she didn't care if a PA child ate something that had peanuts in it.. that would alleviate the problem according to her. The principal really didn't believe in the whole peanut free stance to begin with and the school is now NOT peanut free. My younger daughter attended that same school last year when it was NOT peanut free. I provided education to the parents, her class room was peanut free and there wasn't ONE complaint from any parent. They were all willing to accomodate our needs. In my opinion and from what I have witnessed, there is a clear difference when you force people and when you give them an educated choice.

Now I say we end this and just agree to disagree.

~lisa

On Mar 9, 2006

At out school, The cafeteria has been forbidden to sell any peanut items. They decided to inculde may contains as part of that. Kids can still pack it. They must use wipes immediatly and wash hands after lunch. Whether or not kids are sensitive to those sandwiches being around was not the issue for me, I didnt want to find out, ever. My goal in every aspect of my son's world is to reduce the risk as much as possible. Yes we go to resturants, playgrounds but we do not go to peanut festivals or places where we know large amounts of peanut products will be found. We go to ballgames, the circus, and just about anywhere. We do not go into steakhouses with peanuts and I will no longer be able to fly usair(my latest quest, keep you eyes open...i am quite relentless). I call ahead and get arrangements for us. Removing alternative pbj lunch reduces the amount of PB in the school. Its still there but much less of it. Some parents of pa kids before me just didnt realize they had the option. Tell them to stop it. Sounds like a title for a book I could write. anyway...I think I just committed hijacking.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] Ok, I guess I just don't see it as a "ban" According to websters dictionary, BAN is defined as: To prohibit, especially by official decree. See Synonyms at forbid.

This isn't the case at my school with reference to the cafeteria. There is no "offical decree" and the food is not "FORBIDDEN" For whatever reason they chose not to prepare pbj on the premises and serve it pre packaged. I don't see it as a BAN. They have chosen one food over another.. that is a "ban" it is a choice and as I stated, if they couldn't find an alternative, I am sure they would have served the ones with the labeling. Maybe it has nothing to do with labeling and has everything to do with cost. I haven't a clue. But I would not say that my school has any ban in place... with the exception of my dds' classrooms. Both rooms have "banned" peanuts and nuts. It is clearly forbidden by offical decreee (and a 504 plan) that no allergen be knowingly brought into their rooms in any way. [/b]

Are the cafeteria accommodations as discussed in your 504? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

On Mar 9, 2006

I am just wondering.... if a parent were to ask the school to server PB&J for lunch how would they respond? You say they have chosen not to serve it. Would they refuse the parent's request? Would that parent not see it as if PB were "forbidden" or "banned"?

Just curious!

deb

On Mar 9, 2006

[b]An uproar occured with one parent actually stating she didn't care if a PA child ate something that had peanuts in it.. that would alleviate the problem according to her.[/b]

My mouth literally dropped open when I read this, and I started to well up. I am horrified --- and honestly, I would hope that the parent who stated that would end up shunned by anyone and everyone around them, and that the school would kick them out for stating that. All over peanuts. People are truly pathetic.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] Are the cafeteria accommodations as discussed in your 504? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[/b]

No.

and let me just add, for the record, I only have a 504 for my 2nd DD not my 1st. And I only have the 504 b/c the principal at the K center was not very accomodating and wouldn't work with us at all to help promote a safe environment for Sam. We ended up going to the superintendent's office and filing a complaint and we did a 504 to force her to comply. We only wanted the same precautions that her sister already had in place at the elementary school. Now both girls are at the same school, following the same precautions and I probably don't need the 504 anymore.

[This message has been edited by samirosenjacken (edited March 09, 2006).]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by DebO: [b]I am just wondering.... if a parent were to ask the school to server PB&J for lunch how would they respond? You say they have chosen not to serve it. Would they refuse the parent's request? Would that parent not see it as if PB were "forbidden" or "banned"?

Just curious!

deb[/b]

PB&J uncrustables are served and are available to any child who wants it. I've never seen it listed on the menu as one of the "choices" but it is there and it is an option for a child.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]PB&J uncrustables are served and are available to any child who wants it. I've never seen it listed on the menu as one of the "choices" but it is there and it is an option for a child. [/b]

A little like "don't ask, don't tell" ? ?

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] And as I stated before, I happen to agree with them that bans aren't going to solve the problems we face as parents of food allergic children. If a school chooses to go peanut/nut free, I salute them.. I commend them.. I respect them. If they don't, as long as they are willing to allow the parents to enforce accomodations to ensure the safety of their children, I can support that too. [/b]

And as I've also stated before, [i]so do I[/i]: Never asked for a ban myself. That's not the point.

ANYONE, can you please show me where FAAN has stated in any publication that bans have been successfully implemented in [i]some[/i] schools? for [i]some[/i] children? [i]in some instances[/i]? Can someone show me that FAAN states [i]the possibility[/i] that bans may be implemented successfully in schools? Or where they've studied various ways where schools successfully [i]restrict[/i] food?

Maybe my information is wrong or simply out of date. I would love to stand corrected. [i] Please correct me. [/i]

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]"As an alternative to all-out food bans, FAN suggests establishing peanut-free or milk-free tables in the school cafeteria and a no-food-trading policy. "[/b]

Yes. We've "done" the PF table where *my* DD sat in isolation segregated from her peers. Often alone. Often with one other "disabled" child. We had quite a battle with the school because they would not [i]allow [/i] her to sit at the regular table. They were "following the FAAN".

Quote:

As Originally posted by MommaBear: [b]maybe they need to get someone who is an "expert" in Special Education Law on their team of advisors?[/b]

[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

There are a lot of things FAAN does right ... I have benefitted from them, for which I am grateful. Those great things should be recognized and I'll elbow anyone to be the first in line to do that too. I am comfortable voicing my praises for the things I think they do right, and voicing my concerns for the things that I don't think they're doing very well. One doesn't negate the other IMO.

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited March 09, 2006).]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by qdebbie1: [b]At out school, The cafeteria has been forbidden to sell any peanut items. They decided to inculde may contains as part of that. Kids can still pack it. They must use wipes immediatly and wash hands after lunch. Whether or not kids are sensitive to those sandwiches being around was not the issue for me, I didnt want to find out, ever. My goal in every aspect of my son's world is to reduce the risk as much as possible. Yes we go to resturants, playgrounds but we do not go to peanut festivals or places where we know large amounts of peanut products will be found. We go to ballgames, the circus, and just about anywhere. We do not go into steakhouses with peanuts and I will no longer be able to fly usair(my latest quest, keep you eyes open...i am quite relentless). I call ahead and get arrangements for us. Removing alternative pbj lunch reduces the amount of PB in the school. Its still there but much less of it. Some parents of pa kids before me just didnt realize they had the option. Tell them to stop it. Sounds like a title for a book I could write. anyway...I think I just committed hijacking.[/b]

What is your suggestion/solution for those of us dealing with MFA? "Tell them to stop it"? All food? This is what I find difficult and what must also be difficult for FAAN to find balance as well. While I do agree that FAAN could improve I appreciate the work that they have done. Edited to add [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Just wondering [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by 2BusyBoys (edited March 09, 2006).]

On Mar 9, 2006

well put gail I agree.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] No.

and let me just add, for the record, I only have a 504 for my 2nd DD not my 1st. And I only have the 504 b/c the principal at the K center was not very accomodating and wouldn't work with us at all to help promote a safe environment for Sam. We ended up going to the superintendent's office and filing a complaint and we did a 504 to force her to comply. We only wanted the same precautions that her sister already had in place at the elementary school. Now both girls are at the same school, following the same precautions and I probably don't need the 504 anymore.

[/b]

hmm. I've always been one to think: "I shouldn't be afraid to ask for what I have been led to believe the truth..........[i]in writing[/i]."

Especially when it is [i]my right[/i] to have it so. I'm not the type to wait for the other shoe to drop either. Not saying you are, just describing myself. But hey, I don't have a 504 either. [i]I have an IEP.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Clean, Neat, Surgical. No strings, No what if's. Responsibilities clearly defined. I've never been afraid of that, and I expect those who lead me to believe things not to be either. It's *one* of the greatest favors and gifts I can give someone. And I view those who would take offense to such as [i]highly suspect[/i]. Big Red Flag. But that's not meant as advice, that's just my own personal quirk. Neurotic even. I could be a whacko.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by 2BusyBoys: [b]What is your suggestion/solution for those of us dealing with MFA? "Tell them to stop it"? All food? This is what I find difficult and what must also be difficult for FAAN to find balance as well. While I do agree that FAAN could improve I appreciate the work that they have done. Edited to add [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Just wondering [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img][/b]

I know this wasn't specifically directed to me, but I'll share my thoughts because I like how my elementary school eventually addressed this... "food free classrooms". Period. So food is essentially cofnined to the cafeteria.

For lunch in the cafeteria, all children are provided a safe lunch by the SD. All children practice "universal" cleaning precautions (handwashing, table cleaning) are supervised by staff [i]before and after [/i]eating lunch.

On Mar 9, 2006

i have stacks of things the school district routinely [i]demands [/i] i verify [i]in writing[/i].

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001854.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/001854.html[/url]

On Mar 9, 2006

Thank you Gail.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] maybe they need to get someone who is an "expert" in Special Education Law on their team of advisors?

[/b]

[i]no landsharks allowed.[/i]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] PB&J uncrustables are served and are available to any child who wants it. I've never seen it listed on the menu as one of the "choices" but it is there and it is an option for a child. [/b]

I hate unwritten rules. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Especially ones that not everyone may know about.

On Mar 9, 2006

thank you gail yes, if you want that food free classroom...tell them to stop it. Food is not required in the classroom for education. Get the accomidations that your child has a right to. My point was, tell them what *you* want, for *your* child, not what fann says is best. If your schools serves pbj every day and you think reducing the amount of uneccesary food in the cafeteria will help your child yes...tell them to stop it. Peanut butter is not a food group or a requirement. Kids who eat nothing but that, can bring it, thus reducing the amount. Kids who forget lunches can eat a cheese sandwich, or something else. I dont know which mfa you are dealing with. With MFA it may not reasonable to require a school to remove wheat for example or milk but maybe sesame or watermelon is possible. But you have the right to ask for it. If your child likes sitting at the special table that faan advocates that works for you. Faan should not be a school's deciding factor in how a food allergy is handled. Maybe I am wrong, but faan has never shown options that work for different families and different schools. Why is that? I think the bottom line is they should be seen as a resource(a very good one) but not *the* experts.

edeted becuz i spel lik a kidergardener.

[This message has been edited by qdebbie1 (edited March 09, 2006).]

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken[/b]: As an alternative to all-out food bans, FAN suggests establishing peanut-free or milk-free tables in the school cafeteria [/b]

honestly? This infuriates me. This is [i]completely wrong[/i] for *my* child on the Autism Spectrum[/i]. In so many ways. My child *needs* to be with his classmates. [i]Especially at lunch.[/i] But I only speak for myself......My child.

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Gail W: [b] A little like "don't ask, don't tell" ? ?

[/b]

you mean like: "Ok, this will placate parent(s) xyz, for their problem qrs, but keep it hush, don't make it "official" or parent(s) abc might realize they are entitled to the same thing for problem lmo. We don't want that to happen." ??

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by MommaBear: [b] I hate unwritten rules. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Especially ones that not everyone may know about.[/b]

You know what, I am so confused. I don't understand this comment nor do I understand the "don't ask don't tell" comment.

My children go to a wonderful school. We have a principal who cares, a staff with empathy and compassion and a school nurse I trust with my daughters' lives. There are no hidden agendas or secrets. My daughters have peanut free classrooms considered their "safe zones." I have a 504 for one and not the other. I have fabulous teachers who call me with any questions, who refrain from eating peanut butter before and during school (their choice not because I issued a mandate of any kind). My children have friends who sit with them every day at the peanut free table.. who avoid peanuts and peanut butter even at home... again, their choice not because of any mandate. The cafeteria manager chooses what foods to serve and how to serve them at her discretion.. not mine. We have cafeteria aids who consistently monitor the peanut free table for kids who should not be there. I've had so many teachers and workers tell me they will treat my children as if they were their own!

In a nutshell, we have a wonderful safe support system and there is no conspiracy going on. So I guess I should apologize to you for having such a fabulous school and for the fact my children don't have to run and hide in a panic if Mr. Peanut walks by?!

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b] You know what, I am so confused. I don't understand this comment nor do I understand the "don't ask don't tell" comment.

My children go to a wonderful school. We have a principal who cares, a staff with empathy and compassion and a school nurse I trust with my daughters' lives. There are no hidden agendas or secrets. My daughters have peanut free classrooms considered their "safe zones." I have a 504 for one and not the other. I have fabulous teachers who call me with any questions, who refrain from eating peanut butter before and during school (their choice not because I issued a mandate of any kind). My children have friends who sit with them every day at the peanut free table.. who avoid peanuts and peanut butter even at home... again, their choice not because of any mandate. The cafeteria manager chooses what foods to serve and how to serve them at her discretion.. not mine. We have cafeteria aids who consistently monitor the peanut free table for kids who should not be there. I've had so many teachers and workers tell me they will treat my children as if they were their own!

In a nutshell, we have a wonderful safe support system and there is no conspiracy going on. So I guess I should apologize to you for having such a fabulous school and for the fact my children don't have to run and hide in a panic if Mr. Peanut walks by?! [/b]

you know, I'm beginning to feel [i]tarred and feathered[/i]. I mean, you asked, did you not?

Anywhooooooooo, no apology necessary, I never asked for one. And thank you very much, my children are well adjusted. Probably too well. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] They're not afraid of very much at all. Including "Mr. Peanut". (How did that enter this discussion?) [i]Good one.[/i] Nice.

Even *that* never came flying across the table during numerous IEP meetings. (whew---that might have ended the discussions period. I mean, I might have ended up homeschooling -again- after a comment like that. I mean, I came pretty close the last time a school staff member rolled their eyes at me.)

On Mar 9, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by samirosenjacken: [b]Ok, with the risk of being totally tarred and feathered, what is the negativity surrounded FAAN? [/b]

[i]you asked[/i].

On Mar 9, 2006

And I asked:

[url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000914.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum7/HTML/000914.html[/url]

On Mar 9, 2006

"honestly? This infuriates me. This is completely wrong for *my* child on the Autism Spectrum[/i]. In so many ways. My child *needs* to be with his classmates. Especially at lunch. But I only speak for myself......My child."

And mine, she has never had a definitive diagnosis putting her on the spectrum but the last series of testing done did suggest NLD. And to put her at a seperate table was just not an option for us.

On Mar 10, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Christabelle: [b]I dislike FAAN because schools seem to look to them as THE authority - and who says they should be? [/b]

I don't believe that here in the U.S. any other organization comes [i]close[/i] to doing for the Food Allergy Community what FAAN has. There basically [i]is[/i] nobody else. FAI comes closest, but they are really more dedicated to fundraising for research.

I have no axe to grind with FAAN. I don't have to agree with everything they say to be completely, totally grateful and appreciative for all they do. On the food ban issue, I don't think that one size fits all for any situation, and I would like to see them show a little flexibility there. I personally have never sought one for my son; in our own situation it has not been necessary. (His nursery school went peanut free of their own volition - early years where kids eat in the classroom is one area where I think bans are often necessary.)

Like Peg, I've been at this a long time (not as long as Peg [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] ) and there was absolutely no other information available when we started on this journey. We had no internet access. We got woefully inadequate information from our allergist. FAAN launched us on the right path, and later on this site enhanced our knowledge.

You'll never, ever hear me slam FAAN. And BTW, I think their conferences [b]rock[/b].

Amy

On Mar 10, 2006

Hi Amy ! ! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I'm just wondering out loud... Question: Are those who are satisfied with FAAN those who've had a relatively 'easy' time with their schools? And those who don't like some of FAAN's positions those who've had a more 'difficult' time with their schools?

Maybe that an overstatement... but I sort see somewhat of a pattern.

On Mar 10, 2006

Gail, I think it also has to do with how you got educated in pa, and how long ago it was. If you notice, those that are happy with FAAN, got most of their info from them because there was nowhere else to go.

Me, I got my info here. I didn't even know FAAN existed until after I was here. So they weren't my main source of information or my salvation.

Who knows. To each their own.

On Mar 10, 2006

When we found out my DS was allergic, the only place we found that other people had heard of the allergy was FAAN. Our pediatrician had heard of it at a minimal level, enough to send us to an allergist. But nobody in our lives knew a thing about it. I think it helped DH and I know that we weren't crazy. Aside from that, I look at FAAN as a resource -- like a dictionary, or an encyclopedia, and I use it like I would use other reference materials. It provides something that I think is useful. I would think that there is room in the FA community for other groups to put themselves just as much at the forefront of the issue if they felt as though there were discrepencies in FAAN's information or in things they provide.

edited to add: As far as that relates to our experience with DS's school - they at the moment, are going by what we give them. I think that right now if we provide FAAN informational tools to the school, they are filtered and presented through us -- so our interpretation, relative to our situation with our DS is what the school receives. So far, the problems we have with the school, I don't think, would be addressed by FAAN in any form anyway.

[This message has been edited by gvmom (edited March 10, 2006).]

On Mar 10, 2006

Quote:

Originally posted by Gail W: [b]Hi Amy ! ! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I'm just wondering out loud... Question: Are those who are satisfied with FAAN those who've had a relatively 'easy' time with their schools? And those who don't like some of FAAN's positions those who've had a more 'difficult' time with their schools?

Maybe that an overstatement... but I sort see somewhat of a pattern. [/b]

Great minds think alike! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I was wondering the same thing. And yes, for the most part I've had an easy time with my son's schools. Perhaps FAAN's school guide had something to do with it. (Couldn't resist, LOL!)

I also agree that perhaps the timing has something to do with feelings about FAAN. They really were the only resource out there 10+ years ago.

Amy

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