another 504 vs. IEP thing.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 9:19am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

if your child already has an IEP, is a 504 for pa necessary/more beneficial/more enforceable?

The superintendent I talked with claimed [i]either one provided the same protection[/i]. They also indicated that the IEP may indeed offer greater protection/be more powerful/have the same or greater enforceability, re: PA, when the PA is included in the IEP [i]with any other disabilities[/i]. Mass effect/Compound effect, so to speak.

Is this true, or is someone blowing smoke?

I mean, was 504 legislation intended to provide protection to those [i]who do not qualify for an IEP[/i], so to speak?

Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Don't know the answers myself. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:14am
Mary Kay's picture
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Hi Mommabear,
IEP is for Special Ed. Good luck getting an IEP for a food allergy. My daughter has hemiparesis (a form of cerebral palsy), hydrocephalus and porencephaly (a fluid filled cavity in her brain) and she does not qualify for an IEP OR a 504. I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway. IEPs are funded, where 504s are not. I have talked with you on the phone and you know my thoughts on 504s. I really don't think they should be used for food allergies. But I know I am in the minority.
------------------
Mary Kay

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:49am
Rhonda RS's picture
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Yes: the language of Section 504 is more vague than the language of IDEA by design. If you ever read the congressional record of legislators who drafted the 504 language, this intent is clearly stated.
If you understand the power of a 504 Plan under Section 504 and how to exercise your rights under it, Section 504 is indeed equally as powerful as an IEP under IDEA. The rules and timelines under IDEA are more stringent. However, just because the language of 504 is more vague than IDEA does not mean it is not powerful.
If you know how to exercise your rights, both are equally enforceable.
Your superintendent may be trying to persuade you in the IDEA, Other Health Impaired direction because the school district receives federal financial assistance for IDEA and not for 504. If your child receives an IDEA designation some federal funds can be used to achieve the accommodations. However, just because the district does not receive funds for Section 504 does not mean that it does not have to provide appropriate accommodations to meet the needs of your child - because it does.
To achieve an IDEA OHI designation, you must prove that "learning is affected." Under 504, breathing, seeing, walking, hearing or learning must be affected. Therefore, more disabilities are covered under Section 504 than IDEA.
My article 504 v. IDEA Food Allergy & Asthma goes in to great detail about this issue.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm"]http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm[/url]
My belief is that if the district is willing to offer a parent OHI designation specifically to address food allergy, take it.
If you have an IDEA designation, you automatically are protected under Section 504. All IDEA disabilities qualify for protection under Section 504.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:07pm
MommaBear's picture
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Rhonda, Mary Kay,
[i]thank you[/i].
Rhonda, do you think would it be safe to assume the district is still smiling upon my family? Some of my more recent posts describe [i]a change[/i]. From the district. From myself.
As I understood the superintendent, I could choose [i]either[/i]. As I understand your post, choosing coverage under the iep would be a good thing?
Mary Kay and Rhonda,
My oldest already has an iep in place for the fall. I am waiting to hear which school he will be attending, as the school my address is assigned to does not offer the program in the IEP. The IEP is [i]extensive[/i]. Far more extensive than I had imagined.
We are also currently waiting on the results from a "gait study". I believe he is already scheduled to recieve services for OHT, I believe. He will also be recieving OT services through the school. Possibly, after the "gait study", other services. Not sure, but is "Asthma" OHI? Again, this is all how I interpret it, I could be wrong.
Sadly, the district is still unsure as to whether the program offered for my youngest cub will be in place this fall. (Praying.)
ps........momentarily, I almost found myself on the defensive again today (it's so easy to do..........slapping my wrist)...........I have to remember to take deep deep breaths and remember to be patient and understanding. As I'm sure others are with myself and my family. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] And remember to build similiar bridges.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:12pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Mary Kay:
[b] IEPs are funded, where 504s are not. I have talked with you on the phone and you know my thoughts on 504s. I really don't think they should be used for food allergies.
[/b]
do you think I might be able to get a full time school nurse with the iep?
btw, just wanted to thank you again for your time over the phone. (I am such a phone person [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:42pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]To achieve an IDEA OHI designation, you must prove that "learning is affected." Under 504, breathing, seeing, walking, hearing or learning must be affected. Therefore, more disabilities are covered under Section 504 than IDEA.
My article 504 v. IDEA Food Allergy & Asthma goes in to great detail about this issue.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm"]http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm[/url]
My belief is that if the district is willing to offer a parent OHI designation specifically to address food allergy, take it.
If you have an IDEA designation, you automatically are protected under Section 504. All IDEA disabilities qualify for protection under Section 504.
[/b]
Rhonda, I am definitely going to read those links. Thank you.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 5:09pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

quote from the link Rhonda provided that I read:
[i]"Some parents have obtained protection for their children with severe food allergy under IDEA, Other Health Impaired (OHI) by demonstrating that food allergy affects their children

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 10:20pm
anonymous's picture
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Joined: 05/28/2009 - 16:42

Responding to a quote by Mary Kay, "I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway..."
For me it would be guaranteed rights under the law. A special ed label is not necessarily negative. For years, gifted education was under the "special ed" category in our state, although that seems to be changing. I have taught many extremely bright students with a "special ed" label. Often those students were dyslexic.
Special ed does not have a negative conotation to me.
Is Ryan a Special Ed student because of PA? Yes. Is he a Special Ed student because he is gifted? Yes. As a former professional, I don't see that label negative at all. However, people not familiar with that label may only see it as a negative because of some stereotype.
Just my own thoughts on a "label" that has an extremely broad category of students that fall under that umbrella.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:05pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by ryan's mom:
[b]Responding to a quote by Mary Kay, "I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway..."
For me it would be guaranteed rights under the law. A special ed label is not necessarily negative. For years, gifted education was under the "special ed" category in our state, although that seems to be changing. I have taught many extremely bright students with a "special ed" label. Often those students were dyslexic.
Special ed does not have a negative conotation to me.
Is Ryan a Special Ed student because of PA? Yes. Is he a Special Ed student because he is gifted? Yes. As a former professional, I don't see that label negative at all. However, people not familiar with that label may only see it as a negative because of some stereotype.
Just my own thoughts on a "label" that has an extremely broad category of students that fall under that umbrella. [/b]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sat, 07/24/2004 - 9:55pm
Rhonda RS's picture
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Joined: 02/24/2001 - 09:00

Hi MB
Asthma could qualify under OHI under IDEA if it affects learning. Asthma can also fall under Section 504 if it substantially limits breathing (rhetorical: what asthma doesn't - otherwise it wouldn't be a problem?).
If you want a full time nurse under IDEA or 504, ask for it in writing. I would not wait for the SD to offer it. What SDs often try to do is stretch their medical resources. If there is a nurse already assigned to another child, the SD may try to coordinate with that child's schedule. It depends on the severity of the other child's disability (i.e. a child who has a breathing tube - in need of continuous one on one attention). Regardless of what other special needs there are in the building, there are certainly IDEA funds where no funds exist for Section 504 (again under the law this should not matter).
One note of caution: I have heard of school districts offering OHI for severe food allergy when a child already has an IDEA IEP in place. However, what usually comes to pass it that the school never gives the child the OHI designation specifically for food allergy. The SD writes an IHP for food allergy and "tacks it on" to the IEP and does not fill out the formal paperwork for giving food allergy the OHI designation. If you do not fill out qualifying IDEA OHI paperwork specific to food allergy, then you are not getting the OHI designation. And, in this case, you would not have disability protection under the IDEA law.
For example: an IHP does not ensure LRE on the school bus or for extracurricular activities; academic and non-academic, an IDEA designation would ensure LRE.
Rhonda

Posted on: Sat, 07/24/2004 - 10:29pm
Rhonda RS's picture
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Joined: 02/24/2001 - 09:00

Hi MK,
You said:
"My daughter has hemiparesis (a form of cerebral palsy), hydrocephalus and porencephaly (a fluid filled cavity in her brain) and she does not qualify for an IEP OR a 504."
Who on earth told you she did not qualify and when, and do you have it in writing?
For starters, cerebral palsy falls under OHI under IDEA, and therefore automatically under Section 504. You may want to buy this manual:
[url="http://www.reedmartin.com/healthrelatedmanual.htm"]http://www.reedmartin.com/healthrelatedmanual.htm[/url]
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 25, 2004).]

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