another 504 vs. IEP thing.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 9:19am
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if your child already has an IEP, is a 504 for pa necessary/more beneficial/more enforceable?

The superintendent I talked with claimed [i]either one provided the same protection[/i]. They also indicated that the IEP may indeed offer greater protection/be more powerful/have the same or greater enforceability, re: PA, when the PA is included in the IEP [i]with any other disabilities[/i]. Mass effect/Compound effect, so to speak.

Is this true, or is someone blowing smoke?

I mean, was 504 legislation intended to provide protection to those [i]who do not qualify for an IEP[/i], so to speak?

Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Don't know the answers myself. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:14am
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Hi Mommabear,
IEP is for Special Ed. Good luck getting an IEP for a food allergy. My daughter has hemiparesis (a form of cerebral palsy), hydrocephalus and porencephaly (a fluid filled cavity in her brain) and she does not qualify for an IEP OR a 504. I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway. IEPs are funded, where 504s are not. I have talked with you on the phone and you know my thoughts on 504s. I really don't think they should be used for food allergies. But I know I am in the minority.
------------------
Mary Kay

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:49am
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Yes: the language of Section 504 is more vague than the language of IDEA by design. If you ever read the congressional record of legislators who drafted the 504 language, this intent is clearly stated.
If you understand the power of a 504 Plan under Section 504 and how to exercise your rights under it, Section 504 is indeed equally as powerful as an IEP under IDEA. The rules and timelines under IDEA are more stringent. However, just because the language of 504 is more vague than IDEA does not mean it is not powerful.
If you know how to exercise your rights, both are equally enforceable.
Your superintendent may be trying to persuade you in the IDEA, Other Health Impaired direction because the school district receives federal financial assistance for IDEA and not for 504. If your child receives an IDEA designation some federal funds can be used to achieve the accommodations. However, just because the district does not receive funds for Section 504 does not mean that it does not have to provide appropriate accommodations to meet the needs of your child - because it does.
To achieve an IDEA OHI designation, you must prove that "learning is affected." Under 504, breathing, seeing, walking, hearing or learning must be affected. Therefore, more disabilities are covered under Section 504 than IDEA.
My article 504 v. IDEA Food Allergy & Asthma goes in to great detail about this issue.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm"]http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm[/url]
My belief is that if the district is willing to offer a parent OHI designation specifically to address food allergy, take it.
If you have an IDEA designation, you automatically are protected under Section 504. All IDEA disabilities qualify for protection under Section 504.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:07pm
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Rhonda, Mary Kay,
[i]thank you[/i].
Rhonda, do you think would it be safe to assume the district is still smiling upon my family? Some of my more recent posts describe [i]a change[/i]. From the district. From myself.
As I understood the superintendent, I could choose [i]either[/i]. As I understand your post, choosing coverage under the iep would be a good thing?
Mary Kay and Rhonda,
My oldest already has an iep in place for the fall. I am waiting to hear which school he will be attending, as the school my address is assigned to does not offer the program in the IEP. The IEP is [i]extensive[/i]. Far more extensive than I had imagined.
We are also currently waiting on the results from a "gait study". I believe he is already scheduled to recieve services for OHT, I believe. He will also be recieving OT services through the school. Possibly, after the "gait study", other services. Not sure, but is "Asthma" OHI? Again, this is all how I interpret it, I could be wrong.
Sadly, the district is still unsure as to whether the program offered for my youngest cub will be in place this fall. (Praying.)
ps........momentarily, I almost found myself on the defensive again today (it's so easy to do..........slapping my wrist)...........I have to remember to take deep deep breaths and remember to be patient and understanding. As I'm sure others are with myself and my family. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] And remember to build similiar bridges.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:12pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Mary Kay:
[b] IEPs are funded, where 504s are not. I have talked with you on the phone and you know my thoughts on 504s. I really don't think they should be used for food allergies.
[/b]
do you think I might be able to get a full time school nurse with the iep?
btw, just wanted to thank you again for your time over the phone. (I am such a phone person [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 4:42pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]To achieve an IDEA OHI designation, you must prove that "learning is affected." Under 504, breathing, seeing, walking, hearing or learning must be affected. Therefore, more disabilities are covered under Section 504 than IDEA.
My article 504 v. IDEA Food Allergy & Asthma goes in to great detail about this issue.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm"]http://www.allergysupport.org/index.php?contents=rhondadocs/Primer.htm[/url]
My belief is that if the district is willing to offer a parent OHI designation specifically to address food allergy, take it.
If you have an IDEA designation, you automatically are protected under Section 504. All IDEA disabilities qualify for protection under Section 504.
[/b]
Rhonda, I am definitely going to read those links. Thank you.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 5:09pm
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quote from the link Rhonda provided that I read:
[i]"Some parents have obtained protection for their children with severe food allergy under IDEA, Other Health Impaired (OHI) by demonstrating that food allergy affects their children

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 10:20pm
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Responding to a quote by Mary Kay, "I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway..."
For me it would be guaranteed rights under the law. A special ed label is not necessarily negative. For years, gifted education was under the "special ed" category in our state, although that seems to be changing. I have taught many extremely bright students with a "special ed" label. Often those students were dyslexic.
Special ed does not have a negative conotation to me.
Is Ryan a Special Ed student because of PA? Yes. Is he a Special Ed student because he is gifted? Yes. As a former professional, I don't see that label negative at all. However, people not familiar with that label may only see it as a negative because of some stereotype.
Just my own thoughts on a "label" that has an extremely broad category of students that fall under that umbrella.

Posted on: Fri, 07/23/2004 - 11:05pm
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Quote:Originally posted by ryan's mom:
[b]Responding to a quote by Mary Kay, "I am not sure why you would want your child with a food allergy being labeled special ed anyway..."
For me it would be guaranteed rights under the law. A special ed label is not necessarily negative. For years, gifted education was under the "special ed" category in our state, although that seems to be changing. I have taught many extremely bright students with a "special ed" label. Often those students were dyslexic.
Special ed does not have a negative conotation to me.
Is Ryan a Special Ed student because of PA? Yes. Is he a Special Ed student because he is gifted? Yes. As a former professional, I don't see that label negative at all. However, people not familiar with that label may only see it as a negative because of some stereotype.
Just my own thoughts on a "label" that has an extremely broad category of students that fall under that umbrella. [/b]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Sat, 07/24/2004 - 9:55pm
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Hi MB
Asthma could qualify under OHI under IDEA if it affects learning. Asthma can also fall under Section 504 if it substantially limits breathing (rhetorical: what asthma doesn't - otherwise it wouldn't be a problem?).
If you want a full time nurse under IDEA or 504, ask for it in writing. I would not wait for the SD to offer it. What SDs often try to do is stretch their medical resources. If there is a nurse already assigned to another child, the SD may try to coordinate with that child's schedule. It depends on the severity of the other child's disability (i.e. a child who has a breathing tube - in need of continuous one on one attention). Regardless of what other special needs there are in the building, there are certainly IDEA funds where no funds exist for Section 504 (again under the law this should not matter).
One note of caution: I have heard of school districts offering OHI for severe food allergy when a child already has an IDEA IEP in place. However, what usually comes to pass it that the school never gives the child the OHI designation specifically for food allergy. The SD writes an IHP for food allergy and "tacks it on" to the IEP and does not fill out the formal paperwork for giving food allergy the OHI designation. If you do not fill out qualifying IDEA OHI paperwork specific to food allergy, then you are not getting the OHI designation. And, in this case, you would not have disability protection under the IDEA law.
For example: an IHP does not ensure LRE on the school bus or for extracurricular activities; academic and non-academic, an IDEA designation would ensure LRE.
Rhonda

Posted on: Sat, 07/24/2004 - 10:29pm
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Hi MK,
You said:
"My daughter has hemiparesis (a form of cerebral palsy), hydrocephalus and porencephaly (a fluid filled cavity in her brain) and she does not qualify for an IEP OR a 504."
Who on earth told you she did not qualify and when, and do you have it in writing?
For starters, cerebral palsy falls under OHI under IDEA, and therefore automatically under Section 504. You may want to buy this manual:
[url="http://www.reedmartin.com/healthrelatedmanual.htm"]http://www.reedmartin.com/healthrelatedmanual.htm[/url]
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 25, 2004).]

Posted on: Sun, 07/25/2004 - 3:32am
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]If you want a full time nurse under IDEA or 504, ask for it in writing.
[/b]
Clarifying..........
Do you *think* my letter include a request for accomodation for PA and Asthma and Orthopedic Impairment under [b]IEP/OHI[/b] designation?
Do you *think* my letter include literature citation from the Mass Document re: the need for a full time school nurse in every school that has a child at risk for anaphylaxis?

Posted on: Sun, 07/25/2004 - 11:29am
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Hi Rhonda,
Please email me at [email]mkbee@sbcglobal.net[/email] so I can respond privately to your questions on IEP/504s and why my daughter with disabilites does not have an IEP or 504. I don't want to take up PA.com space on it. I do have some experience with special ed, please see my posts on 504s. I am on a state advisory council for the education of children with disabilities. And I have put together 3 special ed seminars in the past year. So this is not an area I am unfamiliar with.
Thanks,
------------------
Mary Kay

Posted on: Sun, 07/25/2004 - 9:25pm
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Hi MB,
I have not been following your other posts, and I'm not sure where you are in the process of obtaining a formal disability designation for OI, food allergy and asthma.
How old is this cub? He's been in school with no accommodation plan in place for food allergy? From what I can tell, you already have an IEP to address you child's OI needs. Correct? But you don't have any disability protection in place for food allergy and asthma? You've never asked for a full-time nurse before? Have you already had your PPT for OI needs for next year? If you have, the SD is not required to give you another PPT meeting for OI before the year begins. (You know the strict IDEA schedule.) So, just discuss allergy/asthma issues in your letter if this is the case.
Whatever you are looking to obtain, you should write a letter to the 504 Coordinator/Director of Pupil Services. Keep the letter to one page long. Your letter might go something like this...
"We would like to request an accommodation plan meeting with the appropriate individuals who have the authority to assign a disability designation and determine my child's eligibility for accommodations and modifications under Section 504 and IDEA for severe food allergy and asthma. We hope to hear back from the you within one week's time to set a date for the meeting...In this meeting, we would also like to discuss the current schedule of school nurse in cub's school and how this may impact the safety of a child with severe food allergy and asthma."
I'd also include your carefully crafted doctor's letter - stating that the 'life system of breathing is affected, skin, cardiovascular and respiratory during anaphylaxis' - outlining the severity of you child's allergies and asthma issues.
That should get the ball rolling. Once you get into the meeting, you can bring up the need for a full-time nurse, and ask what you need to do to achieve this.
After you send this letter, I myself would put together an accommodation plan proposal, print off copies of the Mass. Doc., Nathan Walter's story and give all those documents to the principal and 504/DOPS three days before the meeting. Call ahead of time before you do this and say you want to share some resources with them.
[url="http://allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Outline.htm"]http://allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Outline.htm[/url]
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 26, 2004).]

Posted on: Sun, 07/25/2004 - 10:28pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[/b]Hi MB,
I have not been following your other posts, and I'm not sure where you are in the process of obtaining a formal disability designation for OI, food allergy and asthma.[/b]
[b]How old is this cub?[/b]
9 at the end of this month.
[b]He's been in school with no accommodation plan in place for food allergy?[/b]
He was homeschooled last school year and part of the previous. We withdrew him when we deemed the 504 plan obtained to be insufficient, among other reasons. (some big items were refused).
[b]From what I can tell, you already have an IEP to address you child's OI needs. Correct? But you don't have any disability protection in place for food allergy and asthma? [/b]
An IEP meeting was held at the end of this last school year in preparation for the fall. At that time a case study was conducted. (No surprise. We were previously informed per final disposition letter from the district attorney that a full case study not limited in scope would be conducted if we ever chose to re-enroll our child, and that due-process/mediation would be pursued to achieve it. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] ) Among the findings is a classification (#1) that opens the door for various interventions/implementations that otherwise might not be deemed necessary or even found on an IEP. [b]Related Services[/b], I believe.
[b]You've never asked for a full-time nurse before?[/b]
[i]not directly.[/i] didn't want to get "shot down". I think it is harder to achieve after a flat out denial. We also came to the resolution to have one after the dismal failure of the previous 504 meetings. I mean, the school nurse was never present for those many meetings. Meetings for a [b]health need[/b]. Should the nurse have been the team leader? Or at least a key team member?
[b]Have you already had your PPT for OI needs for next year?[/b]
Hmmmmmmm. They, We, have Planned for his Placement. They just cannot tell me where it is to be yet. (They are deciding where to put the program this year among three schools). We, They, agreed that the PA, Asthma, Food Allergies would be Planned for upon that decision, since we didn't know the layout or resources of the environment he would be in. We are not even aware of what the program day will actually even be like aside from the minutes outlined for specific need in his IEP. They did outline minutes for OT. But, they are aware we are currently seeking outside medical intervention for orthopedic needs that may or may not affect his needs at school (most likely will). They are waiting on that. The results of his recent gait study will require at least 3 weeks for interpretation.
[b]If you have, the SD is not required to give you another PPT meeting for OI before the year begins. (You know the strict IDEA schedule.)[/b]
Understood, but would it behoove them to do so? I mean, *we* are moving as fast as we can, given the fact they can't even tell me where the program is to be. (looking at calander...........worried)
[b]So, just discuss allergy/asthma issues in your letter if this is the case.[/b]
Thank you for your response. It means much to me.
[b]Whatever you are looking to obtain, you should write a letter to the 504 Coordinator/Director of Pupil Services.[/b]
The superintendent directed me to The Special Education Director. Is this the same thing?
[b]Keep the letter to one page long.[/b]
Absolutely. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Hopefully, our Plan will be no more than a few pages. (Although the IEP is pretty long) I've heard you loose people after the first page. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I know I have a tendency to really ramble. My husband is never amiss in pointing it out and telling me to stay focused and not lose people in my babbling. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[b]Your letter might go something like this...
"We would like to request an accommodation plan meeting with the appropriate individuals who have the authority to assign a disability designation and determine my child's eligibility for accommodations and modifications under Section 504 and IDEA for severe food allergy and asthma. We hope to hear back from the them in one week's time to set a date for the meeting...In this meeting, we would also like to discuss the current schedule of school nurse in cub's school and how this may impact the safety of a child with severe food allergy and asthma."
I'd also include your carefully crafted doctor's letter - stating that the 'life system of breathing is affected, skin, cardiovascular and respiratory during anaphylaxis' - outlining the severity of you child's allergies and asthma issues.
That should get the ball rolling. Once you get into the meeting, you can bring up the need for a full-time nurse, and ask what you need to do to achieve this.
After you send this letter, I myself would put together an accommodation plan proposal, print off copies of the Mass. Doc., Nathan Walter's story and give all those documents to the principal and 504/DOPS three days before the meeting. Call ahead of time before you do this and say you want to share some resources with them.
[url="http://allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Outline.htm"]http://allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Outline.htm[/url]
Take care,
Rhonda[/b]
Thank you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Hope I made sense and did not babble.
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 26, 2004).]

Posted on: Sun, 07/25/2004 - 10:41pm
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Minutes:
2500/week as of this note.
The conference report of the IEP includes mention in at least two places, of evaluating the need for a 1:1 aide (no specific need mentioned) after the school year begins.
The Educational Accommodations section indicated: "Needs medical plan."
ps.....thank you. I'm looking very closely at the IEP right now. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
(fighting off the urge to take my cubs and retreat to the cave, however)

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 4:18am
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Hi MB,
Are you working with a whole new set of educators and school? Same Superintendent? I'm guessing some of the players have changed.
You already had a 504 Designation for him previously and a 504 Plan from the district...Interesting. So the district recognized cub's allergy and asthma as being covered under Section 504?
I'd do this by the book so you do not run into problems later. Here are my suggestions:
Since the SD is throwing out the possibility of OHI under IDEA for food allergy, I think it's best to fire off a new request letter and all the documents I mentioned. It's also important to do this since the 504 Plan from a few years ago was not adequate. And since you've already had your OI PPT at the end of last year, I think it's best to request a new meeting and keep the food allergy and asthma issues separate for now. Even if the SD wants to give you an OHI designation under IDEA for food allergy over the phone - let them tell you that in a formal meeting that you request in writing.
Get your letter out ASAP. Once the SD receives your letter, the SD may try to give you the run around on the phone by saying that they are just going to tack on an IHP to the IEP. As this point, you will need to insist on having a separate meeting to determine your cub's disability designation: 504 or IDEA OHI. Either way, you need to create accommodation plan.
Also, request in writing that the school nurse be present the disability designation meeting. Yes - the school nurse is a key member of any critical educational meeting where a serious health issue is the focus. She would be considered a "knowledgeable individual" under the law. As an accommodation to assist in allergy management, request in your letter that you would like cub's next year's teacher to attend the meeting as well since she will be the person implementing the accommodation plan.
Let's add OCR's Allergy as a Hidden Disability Document to the documents that you'll be sending in. (Go to the OCR web site, type in keywords: Allergy Hidden Disability - it should come up as the first document). I think that if your 504 Plan was not adequate a few years ago, you need to make the SD understand that OCR recognizes food allergy as a hidden disability, and they will be more likely to take the issue more seriously and provide more appropriate accommodations this time around. The OCR Hidden Disability Document should achieve this.
The Director of Pupil Services usually holds the dual position of 504 Coordinator and Director of Special Education. Call the superintendent's office and ask if this is the case. You need to know and understand everyone's titles.
The school district *can* tell you where cub will be next year if they wanted to (how could they not know?). If knowing who the teacher is will assist in planning and your child's success for next year, you can request that you be told who the teacher is as an accommodation under IDEA. Request this in writing in a letter separate from the food allergy / asthma letter.
In general, the SD is not going to give you any meeting that they don't have to. When it comes to IDEA, they are quite conscious of the federal rules. This is the reason I framed the request for a meeting the way I did - they would be hard pressed to refused this meeting given the way I wrote the paragraph.
Now, based on your last post the SD wants to give you a "Medical Plan" to address food allergy and asthma - which is *exactly* what I anticipated they would do. This is not sufficient. Make the district meet with you and your husband again for the purpose of giving cub either the OHI IDEA Designation or the 504 Designation in writing. Nothing less is acceptable if you don't want to run into problems again later down the road.
Fight or Flight - human instinct. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] No you did not ramble [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 26, 2004).]

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 4:43am
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Hi Mary Kay,
Are you serious or you just trying to get us all riled up here on pa.com?
Nathan Walters, a nine year old, died a few years ago because he ate a small amount of peanut products on a fieldtrip at school. The school knew he had severe allergies and still gave him the lunch that killed him. Nathan's father, Rick, told me that he knew nothing about Section 504 or IDEA at the time, and had he known, things might be different today. Disability designations can help protect our children from death.
FAAN cites over 150 people die each year due to allergic reactions.
Of course children with life-threatening allergies deserve disability status. The U.S. Office for Civil Rights lists "allergy" as a hidden disability. It's presented along with diabetes and epilepsy. Severe food allergy affects the life system of breathing, as well as cardiovascular, skin and respiratory: It meets the definition of disability under the Section 504.
I am surprised and disappointed that you think only some disabilities make the cut of being real since you've been chosen the Illinois State Advisory Council for the Education of Children with Disabilities. Parents of children with food allergy and asthma in your state are now at a disadvantage. If you truly are a child and parent advocate, you should advocate for all children with any disability not the just the ones you think are real.
My daughter almost died in my arms when she was 5 months old due to a severe allergic reaction - she stopped breathing. If that's not real, I don't know what is.
In a national advocacy seminar I attended (Partners in Policy Making), I participated in classes with many individuals and parents of children who had various disabilities: Down Syndrom, Spina Bifida, CF, MS, Mental Retardation, Hearing Loss, and the list goes on. I was chosen for the seminar specifically because my child has severe food allergy. On the one hand, a child with food allergy who has no other disability does not face the challenges of those who have the disabilities I mention above. However, each and every time our children eat, they could die as a result of ingesting the wrong food. Due to this reality, they must be protected from harmful allergens that could kill them. We must focus on prevention and emergency response.
I wish you the best in your efforts to support your daughter and individuals with IDEA disabilities - I'm sure your intentions are good. I can only hope you have a change of heart, do some research and learn more about how Section 504 and IDEA apply to food allergy and asthma. I can only infer that you have become entangled in the institution's dogma that perhaps you initially set out to change.
Best wishes,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 9:07am
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[b]Are you working with a whole new set of educators and school?[/b]
Yup. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[b]Same Superintendent?[/b]
Nope. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[b]I'm guessing some of the players have changed.[/b]
(counting on fingers.......)
That I can think of offhand or even know of? The super, the vice super, the principal (although we won't be at that school and anywhoooooo.....[i]before summers end, the principal changed yet again for a second time[/i]), and the school psychologist. At his prior school. But this school *is* a whole new set as well. But the team at the *old* school developed the IEP and conducted the case study.
But just noting, [i]I will be sure to put things in writing[/i] and request the same of others, as I can see there is a heavy employee turnaround.
Wouldn't ya know..........one of the original players popped up in [i]one of the other[/i] original player's positions recently. That's ok, since that person is leaving a position that(to do that position change) I will need to communicate with on a regular basis. Lemonaide even.
And no offense to anyone and not placing blame, we just didn't. Communicate. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Our karma didn't mix. Crossing auras........ wrong signs.........[i]whatever[/i]. Sometimes, that happens.
[b]You already had a 504 Designation for him previously and a 504 Plan from the district...Interesting.[/b]
Actually, [i]we never signed the final draft[/i]. Key elements, accomodations, recommended, standard interventions [i]were missing[/i].
[b]So the district recognized cub's allergy and asthma as being covered under Section 504? [/b]
Yes. As far as I could tell, the document was entitled a "504". Part of the meeting was devoted to addressing the recognition and establishment of his LTFA and Asthma as [i]a disability covered under section 504.[/i]
We received a formal invitation to the "504" meetings several times. The look like the iep invites and list persons who will be present, some legalities, some rights, and dates to do things by. We also received an "explanation of procedural safeguards" document for [i]parents/guardians of students with disabilities[/i] at the time....... (on my own, I obtained [b]"A Parents' Guide, The educational Rights of Students With Disabilities"[/b] revised 2001, which is more [i]in-depth[/i] in my meager opinion)
[b]I'd do this by the book so you do not run into problems later. Here are my suggestions:
Since the SD is throwing out the possibility of OHI under IDEA for food allergy, I think it's best to fire off a new request letter and all the documents I mentioned. It's also important to do this since the 504 Plan from a few years ago was not adequate. And since you've already had your OI PPT at the end of last year, I think it's best to request a new meeting and keep the food allergy and asthma issues separate for now. [/b]
Completely Understand. I don't want it buried in those 50 some pages of his current IEP. I believe people *do* look at those pages (they have to), but most of what is in those pages are what they are very accustomed to and were formally trained to interpret. Probably what they [i]expect[/i] and know [i]second nature[/i].
[b]Even if the SD wants to give you an OHI designation under IDEA for food allergy over the phone - let them tell you that in a formal meeting that you request in writing.[/b]
Yes. absolutely. Good you remind me tho, since [i]everyone is being so, so..........accomodating.[/i] I think it is [i]real[/i], but this is an imperfect world, and memories fail, especially when dealing with many faces, and many needs, and many stressors. I recognize that my family is not always (or ever) going to be #1 priority on anyone's list. I am also keeping in mind that sometimes, people change positions, or even leave the institution. Sometimes, more frequently than I am used to. Nothing wrong with that, just that I am not personally used to it. I'm one of those people whose job grows on me. I like *my* parking space, you know? I'm rambling, so I'll just say:
Document. Document. Document.
[b]Get your letter out ASAP. Once the SD receives your letter, the SD may try to give you the run around on the phone by saying that they are just going to tack on an IHP to the IEP. As this point, you will need to insist on having a separate meeting to determine your cub's disability designation: 504 or IDEA OHI. Either way, you need to create accommodation plan.[/b]
Yes. I'm working on it tonight. (I made some more phone calls, and you were [b]right[/b]..........my cub has been assigned a school. (Actually, they gave me the choice of several. *JOY*)
I even found out, the program my youngest cub is assigned to will most likely receive the funding it needs. Still, I'm not counting on it, and can only pray........it is a [i]fabulous[/i] program. ) I will note, however, they were numbers the district office suggested I call. Just thought that if anyone knew, it would be the district office. Guess I should have called other offices first. That or maybe the paperwork finally got through.
[b]Also, request in writing that the school nurse be present the disability designation meeting. Yes - the school nurse is a key member of any critical educational meeting where a serious health issue is the focus. She would be considered a "knowledgeable individual" under the law. As an accommodation to assist in allergy management, request in your letter that you would like cub's next year's teacher to attend the meeting as well since she will be the person implementing the accommodation plan.[/b]
From what I'm told, the nurse at his assigned school will most likely make it a priority. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] (crossing fingers) I am also eager to meet his teacher. (Many of the 3rd grade teachers I've met are soooooooooo cooooool). Must be the age group they teach. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I loved my third grade teacher.
I might really enjoy this year along with my cubs. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
[b]Let's add OCR's Allergy as a Hidden Disability Document to the documents that you'll be sending in. (Go to the OCR web site, type in keywords: Allergy Hidden Disability - it should come up as the first document). I think that if your 504 Plan was not adequate a few years ago, you need to make the SD understand that OCR recognizes food allergy as a hidden disability, and they will be more likely to take the issue more seriously and provide more appropriate accommodations this time around. The OCR Hidden Disability Document should achieve this.[/b]
The letter is in my paws.
[b]The Director of Pupil Services usually holds the dual position of 504 Coordinator and Director of Special Education.[/b]
Makes sense to me.
[b] Call the superintendent's office and ask if this is the case. You need to know and understand everyone's titles.[/b]
[i]There are so many......[/i] I've got to remember those in [b]Early Childhood[/b] and those in [b]Special Education[/b].
[b]The school district *can* tell you where cub will be next year if they wanted to (how could they not know?).[/b]
Like I said......[i]you were right[/i]. Sometimes, I can't see the forest for the trees. How did I let that one get by????
[b]If knowing who the teacher is will assist in planning and your child's success for next year, you can request that you be told who the teacher is as an accommodation under IDEA. Request this in writing in a letter separate from the food allergy / asthma letter.[/b]
They gave me the name of the teacher for his original assignment today, but we picked a different school.........I asked so many things over the phone, [i]I forgot to ask[/i]. I think I will start writing things down before I call. Again.
[b]In general, the SD is not going to give you any meeting that they don't have to. When it comes to IDEA, they are quite conscious of the federal rules. This is the reason I framed the request for a meeting the way I did - they would be hard pressed to refused this meeting given the way I wrote the paragraph.
Now, based on your last post the SD wants to give you a "Medical Plan" to address food allergy and asthma - which is *exactly* what I anticipated they would do. This is not sufficient. Make the district meet with you and your husband again for the purpose of giving cub either the OHI IDEA Designation or the 504 Designation in writing. Nothing less is acceptable if you don't want to run into problems again later down the road.[/b]
Understood. I was told the school I picked has a full time school nurse who is very involved [b]and[/b] and an assistant nurse. Coincidence???? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] Either way, I want [b]A Full Time School Nurse (RN) [i]and[/i] all that entails[/b] written into his Plan. You know, just in case........
[b]Fight or Flight - human instinct. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] No you did not ramble [/b]
Thank You.
BTW, you are very patient with me. Thank You, again.

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 9:18am
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Also, request in writing that the school nurse be present the disability designation meeting. Yes - the school nurse is a key member of any critical educational meeting where a serious health issue is the focus. [/b]
specifically:
[i]"She would be considered a "knowledgeable individual" under the law."[/i]
love it. Lot of motivation in those words. I know. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img] I mean, there is also an [i]expectation that certain persons posess certain knowledge.[/i] And keep it current. There must be, or at least [i]a need be[/i], or I wouldn't keep updating my knowledge base and gleaning continuting education credits even tho it is not required of me. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
How many thousands of posts I've made, and I could not find the words you did??????
Oh, for the gift of that clarity. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
thank you thank you thank you. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 26, 2004).]

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 11:09am
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Hi MB,
I'm glad I can assist. Thank you for the compliments [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I am anticipating that you will get into your food allergy / asthma designation meeting and the SD will say... "Well, we've looked at everything, and we don't think cub qualifies for IDEA...Now let's see if Section 504 applies." This is the reason you will have provided them with all the 504 documentation.
Now, if you want to really hedge your bet, you can use peer pressure which we've found very useful time and time again in CT: Reach out to your network of moms, and see if you can find three towns that surround your town where kids have good 504 Plans for food allergy (and asthma - asthma may be tough to find since most parents don't know asthma qualifies under 504). Get these parents to share the plans with you. Ask if you can share their plans with your school (with all names removed of course). This strategy will assist the district in seeing that other districts are doing the same kinds of things you are asking. The SDs cannot share the plans or even give you the names of kids because of FERPA. So, you will have to rely on your mom network. I'd start working on this piece since it will take time, and you'll probably have the plans by the time you need them should you run into resistance about the accommodations and modifications you want made.
Take care,
Rhonda

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 9:58pm
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VERY well said, Rhonda.
I don't mean to be critical of Mary Kay or anyone else here because we're entitled to our own opinions. However, IMO it was very disconcerting that one would be on a state advisory panel for children with disabilities and not consider a food allergy to be one. It really bothered me and I had a hard time falling asleep the night after reading that post.
In fact it still troubles me days after reading it. Almost scary (IMO).

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 10:57pm
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[b]Hi MB,
I'm glad I can assist. Thank you for the compliments [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I am anticipating that you will get into your food allergy / asthma designation meeting and the SD will say... "Well, we've looked at everything, and we don't think cub qualifies for IDEA...Now let's see if Section 504 applies." This is the reason you will have provided them with all the 504 documentation.
Now, if you want to really hedge your bet, you can use peer pressure which we've found very useful time and time again in CT:[/b]
Just interrupting the thought for a sec.... (hubby says I interrupt a lot ---- he does too ---- we're just always interrupting each other, so he's become a real courtesy and protocol rules kind of guy about it. [i]OCD almost.[/i] ---- Me, I just keep talking. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img])
..........What confuses me is why would I have to "hedge my bet" in the case of a 504 and not an IEP OHI? Has it got something to do with funding to provide accomodations? I mean, [i]money (or the lack of) isn't supposed to be an issue, yes?[/i] I take that statement at face value. [i]Maybe I shouldn't?[/i]
[b]Reach out to your network of moms, and see if you can find three towns that surround your town where kids have good 504 Plans for food allergy (and asthma - asthma may be tough to find since most parents don't know asthma qualifies under 504). Get these parents to share the plans with you. Ask if you can share their plans with your school (with all names removed of course).[/b]
Hm. Problem. [i]I don't have a network of moms.[/i] My oldest cub has been out of school for a year and a half. Due to some mitigating circumstances, [i]he really doesn't have any close friends in this neighborhood[/i] either. We're kind of a loner group. Not saying this in a "feel sorry for me way". No, not at all. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Just stating a fact. Oh, I mean, we're going to the block party next month..........WAIT!!!!! [b]THE BLOCK PARTY!!!!!!!![/b]
Time to make some contacts while watching the firewalkers and flame eaters. [i](Hawaiian Theme). [/i] We're really quite social creatures when given the appropriate opportunity and setting. Maybe even a little obnoxious. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] [i]Hang Ten, and give me a drink with a little umbrella.[/i] I'm wearing a red floral wrap..........
I mean, when I tried to do something similiar a few years ago, people were either very tight lipped, (FERPA?) or [i]didn't have a 504 or an IEP or anything similiar,[/i] or just didn't want to reveal it to me. People can be really cagey about their children's needs. Never been to a support meeting in my area. Maybe it's time I should.
I know my youngest cubs early education class had quite a few children with LTFA. Problem is, most rode early education bus. I never had an opportunity to talk to them. Or, on field trips, which were combination class and quite large.........I never knew how to introduce the subject. [i]The atmosphere on those trips was very lighthearted[/i] and we were still shellshocked from our oldest cubs experience in school. Admittedly, [i]I didn't want to rock the boat.[/i] Things were going so well for my youngest cub.
I will say, tho, that I was quite pleased with how [i]that[/i] school in the district addressed food allergies. (at least from what I could see, and what the instructors verbalized to me.) I remember mentioning that school in a letter to the district (after a phone call) re: the difference between the two schools wrt LTFA. I mean, [i]it was the same district/co-op.[/i]
[b]This strategy will assist the district in seeing that other districts are doing the same kinds of things you are asking. The SDs cannot share the plans or even give you the names of kids because of FERPA.[/b]
similiar to "HIPPA" in healthcare?
[b] So, you will have to rely on your mom network.[/b]
Sigh. I'll try to make some friends.
[b]I'd start working on this piece since it will take time, and you'll probably have the plans by the time you need them should you run into resistance about the accommodations and modifications you want made.[/b]
[i]despair[/i].
My bet is hedging on a Block Party.
Thank you tho, Rhonda, it's not you that is causing my bleak outlook right now, it's just that i feel painted into a corner. And I'm holding the brush. Again, my family is quite happy being the loners we are, it's just that the system isn't based on that. Guess I'll just have to count on my innate resoursefulness and talkie type of personality. I can be quite irritating, and sometimes, people give me the information I want or item I request just to shut me up. That or they [i]may[/i] really enjoy talking to me and the results are similiar. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
(007 spy music.............trombone solo)
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 27, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 27, 2004).]

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 11:15pm
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Hang in there Mommabear you will work it out!
Dh and myself are from the olden days,we take people at there word until proven other wise.
Hi Rhonda RS!!
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 11:32pm
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Quote:Originally posted by ryan's mom:
[b]VERY well said, Rhonda. [/b]
I meant to say : "VERY well said" as well [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]
Quote:Originally posted by ryan's mom:
[b]In fact it still troubles me days after reading it. Almost scary (IMO). [/b]
imagine how I must feel living in Illinois................ [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Posted on: Mon, 07/26/2004 - 11:35pm
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Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]Hang in there Mommabear you will work it out!
[/b]
Hi Synthia!
God doesn't give me what He doesn't think we can handle together [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Tue, 07/27/2004 - 1:05am
Rhonda RS's picture
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Hi MB
I wrote hedge your bet because as much as we prepare and hope for the best, SD's often try to back out of giving a disability designation upon the advice of the SD's lawyer when parents get into their disability designation meetings. I just want you to be ready, so you can turn things around quickly should this be the case.
Should you get into your meeting and this happens, you can offer the school district other 504 Plans of other children from other districts to show them that they are not alone in addressing food allergy / asthma issues in a methodical way.
I don't think it would be a funding issue. It's more about what the SDs lawyer tells the lead person of the 504 Team (or PPT members). You are going to have to prove that learning is affected to get the OHI IDEA designation. (I.E. Cub had an allergic reaction and had to leave school on X date.) Unless you have meticulous documentation of reactions at school, I believe it's difficult to achieve the OHI, but not impossible. I would like to see you prepared to pursue a 504 designation should the need arise.
Also, based on the fact that you mentioned Due Process from your last go at this, I would be ready for various permutations of events. If you have 504 Plans to show them, they will be more likely to accept what you are asking.
Yes, FERPA is to education as HIPPA is to healthcare.
[url="http://www.ed.gov/offices/OM/fpco/ferpa/"]http://www.ed.gov/offices/OM/fpco/ferpa/[/url]
Yes, reach out in anyway you can: church, support groups, library etc. Ask around. Perhaps a support group in your area would be the best way to start. This is one of the last pieces of your strategy for getting the designation, and it takes time to make these contacts.
So you'll be sending in to the 504 Coordinator/Director of Pupil Service:
1. Carefully crafted doctor's letter. I've bumped up my letter to my doc which states all the pertinent information. The docs letter is critical and can make or break your getting the designation. The doc is a "knowledgeable individual under the law."
2. Your request letter for disability designation meeting and who you want to be there.
3. Article about Nathan Walters
4. OCR Hidden Disability Document
5. I also sent in our CAP RAST Test Results.
___________________________
After you do the list above, I'd have ready for the SD should you need them:
a) Three 504 Plans for food allergy from other towns near you
New thoughts... add
b) Print off the Mass BSEA Peanut Free Classroom document: [url="http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/bsea.pdf"]http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/bsea.pdf[/url]
c) Print off the Mass BOE Managing Severe Food Allergy Document
[url="http://www.doe.mass.edu/cnp/2002/news/allergy.pdf"]http://www.doe.mass.edu/cnp/2002/news/allergy.pdf[/url]
As long as you are willing to work for this, I am willing to assist. I'm sure there are a number of other parents out there reading these posts.
Block Party sounds great!
Hi Ryan's Mom! You've made such incredible strides. Thank you! Nicole is just lovely! Katie loves being a big sister. Hope you and yours are well too.
Hi Synthia. Hope you are well. You went through this whole OHI v. 504 Designation issue, right. What did you end up getting?
Hi Mary Kay, if you wanted to talk about your child's disability here, that would be okay - really. We can all learn from each other. All disabilities count on the pa.com boards in my book.
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 27, 2004).]

Posted on: Tue, 07/27/2004 - 5:41am
synthia's picture
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You went through this whole OHI v. 504 Designation issue,right. What did you end up getting?
Rhonda RS to answer your ?
Look in this thread Let me know your comments in that thread,Thanks
This is it,Iam scared to death for Little v in the schools thread.

Posted on: Tue, 07/27/2004 - 10:03am
California Mom's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Hi Mary Kay,
Are you serious or you just trying to get us all riled up here on pa.com?
Nathan Walters, an eight year old, died a few years ago because he ate a small amount of peanut products on a fieldtrip at school. The school knew he had severe allergies and still gave him the lunch that killed him. Nathan's father, Rick, told me that he knew nothing about Section 504 or IDEA at the time, and had he known, things might be different today. Disability designations can help protect our children from death.
FAAN cites over 150 people die each year due to allergic reactions.
Of course children with life-threatening allergies deserve disability status. The U.S. Office for Civil Rights lists "allergy" as a hidden disability. It's presented along with diabetes and epilepsy. Severe food allergy affects the life system of breathing, as well as cardiovascular, skin and respiratory: It meets the definition of disability under the Section 504.
I am surprised and disappointed that you think only some disabilities make the cut of being real since you've been chosen the Illinois State Advisory Council for the Education of Children with Disabilities. Parents of children with food allergy and asthma in your state are now at a disadvantage. If you truly are a child and parent advocate, you should advocate for all children with any disability not the just the ones you think are real.
My daughter almost died in my arms when she was 5 months old due to a severe allergic reaction - she stopped breathing. If that's not real, I don't know what is.
In a national advocacy seminar I attended (Partners in Policy Making), I participated in classes with many individuals and parents of children who had various disabilities: Down Syndrom, Spina Bifida, CF, MS, Mental Retardation, Hearing Loss, and the list goes on. I was chosen for the seminar specifically because my child has severe food allergy. On the one hand, a child with food allergy who has no other disability does not face the challenges of those who have the disabilities I mention above. However, each and every time our children eat, they could die as a result of ingesting the wrong food. Due to this reality, they must be protected from harmful allergens that could kill them. We must focus on prevention and emergency response.
I wish you the best in your efforts to support your daughter and individuals with IDEA disabilities - I'm sure your intentions are good. I can only hope you have a change of heart, do some research and learn more about how Section 504 and IDEA apply to food allergy and asthma. I can only infer that you have become entangled in the institution's dogma that perhaps you initially set out to change.
Best wishes,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 26, 2004).][/b]
Thank you so much for your extremely well "spoken" thoughts on the matter. The only thing I could come up with (in my own head) was: "with friends like these who needs enemies?". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img]
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam

Posted on: Tue, 07/27/2004 - 10:10am
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b] We can all learn from each other. All disabilities count on the pa.com boards in my book.
[/b]
[i]Completely Understand.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Posted on: Wed, 07/28/2004 - 9:59pm
Rhonda RS's picture
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Hi MB,
Gary got a hold of the entire "Letter to Zirkel - 1993," from OCR and sent me a PDF, and I've posted on our website.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf"]http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf[/url]
The gist of the letter is that the "reasonable standard" used for ADA does not apply for Section 504 and schools. You could present a copy of this letter to your school, should the district say it only needs to provide what is "reasonable." OCR clearly states this is not the case. Again, an SD's lawyer may use the argument that I stated (use ADA law saying they only have to provide what is reasonable) and cite some case law to support their argument that they do not have to provide what is reasonable. However, I've found most of the SD's lawyers are not that bright. I think if you presented this letter, it would make the district back down from a "we only have to provide what is reasonable" argument.

Posted on: Wed, 07/28/2004 - 10:33pm
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Hi MB,
Gary got a hold of the entire "Letter to Zirkel - 1993," from OCR and sent me a PDF, and I've posted on our website.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf"]http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf[/url]
The gist of the letter is that the "reasonable standard" used for ADA does not apply for Section 504 and schools.[/b]
yes. that is the gist I got.
that a [i]FAPE[/i] standard has more muscle than a [i]reasonable[/i] standard? (If of course, one can say learning is affected. As I understand it, 504 has no qualifier that learning need be affected? Please, correct me if I am not understanding, as it is critical that I do.)
that since my child is already covered by idea, ohi may not be such a far leap (seeing that many conditions and needs overlap)? Again, correct me when needed. I'm [i]still[/i] new to this.
Thank you for confirming, if I do indeed understand based on the reasoning.
[b]You could present a copy of this letter to your school, should the district say it only needs to provide what is "reasonable." OCR clearly states this is not the case. Again, an SD's lawyer may use the argument that I stated (use ADA law saying they only have to provide what is reasonable) and cite some case law to support their argument that they do not have to provide what is reasonable. However, I've found most of the SD's lawyers are not that bright. I think if you presented this letter, it would make the district back down from a "we only have to provide what is reasonable" argument.[/b]
We have an appointment with my child's physician today. I need to get some ot scripts filled for the school, and some other papers regarding medication. Through the grapevine, and during the course of some calls to the district special ed department, a representative mentioned that the iep team would need to be reconviened re: Asthma and Food Allergy and orthopedic impairment. (I haven't turned in any formal notification yet, as we are seeing the physician today-----he was on vacation briefly)
Is the reconviening of the IEP regarding what was mentioned *a good thing*?
There is something I would like to discuss off the boards as this is such an open forum. I could post it later after the smoke clears (if there is any), but now is not a good time.

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:12am
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I have my OCR letter article on hidden disabilities, the Zirkel letter, a printed copy of the MASS document that I have kept for quite some time....., but cannot get the Nathan Walters article from [b]The Spokane Review[/b] to download........... I have a password and have cleared my browser, restarted the computer, etc.....but it just won't download.
Anyone?

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:16am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Hi MB,
Gary got a hold of the entire "Letter to Zirkel - 1993," from OCR and sent me a PDF, and I've posted on our website.
[url="http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf"]http://www.allergysupport.org/rhondadocs/Zirkel.pdf[/url]
[/b]
thank you Gary. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I had found the letter (or parts of) at another website, but I really like the format it is in on Rhonda's site. You know, [i]the whole letter[/i]. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:23am
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Mommabear,I raised it hope its the one you are looking for!
Good luck!
I sent you a E-mail
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 1:22am
Rhonda RS's picture
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Hi MB,
FAPE is just another part of the law. Making reasonable accommodations would be a way to ensure FAPE (a Free and Appropriate Public Education).
Yes, reconvening the IEP team is a good thing as long as the IEP Team (PPT - Planning and Placement Team as it is also called) has the authority to give the 504 Designation. Be sure to ask the person leading the IEP team in writing (e-mail / fax) that the 504 Coordinator be there and any other necessary school official for the district be there so that all the right people are there who have the authority to give the 504 designation should cub not qualify for OHI under IDEA for food allergy and asthma.
Regardless of the information through the grapevine, send all the documents in we've talked about. Especially important is your request for designation letter.
Try these two articles; they have the information that you need:
[url="http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_micro.asp?TRACKID=&CID=1139&DID=8042"]http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_micro.asp?TRACKID=&CID=1139&DID=8042[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/"]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/[/url]
It looks like the full amount of the settlement was 1 Million dollars.
[url="http://static.highbeam.com/t/thecolumbian/april162002/boysdeathledto1millionsettlement/"]http://static.highbeam.com/t/thecolumbian/april162002/boysdeathledto1millionsettlement/[/url]
Prayers to Rick and Teresa for peace and comfort.
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 1:35am
MommaBear's picture
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Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Hi MB,
FAPE is just another part of the law. Making reasonable accommodations would be a way to ensure FAPE (a Free and Appropriate Public Education).[/b]
absolutely. but am I understanding it correctly that under OHI, not 504, the word "reasonable" does not influence the extent of the accommodations made? I know, I'm not really good at being clear. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
[b]Yes, reconvening the IEP team is a good thing as long as the IEP Team (PPT - Planning and Placement Team as it is also called) has the authority to give the 504 Designation. Be sure to ask the person leading the IEP team in writing (e-mail / fax) that the 504 Coordinator be there and any other necessary school official for the district be there so that all the right people are there who have the authority to give the 504 designation should cub not qualify for OHI under IDEA for food allergy and asthma.
[/b]
thank you for reminding me, I just trusted that they would be there. Better to be prepared.
[b]Regardless of the information through the grapevine, send all the documents in we've talked about. Especially important is your request for designation letter.[/b]
Agreed. If I don't rock the boat a little, I just might not notice the anchor, right? [i]Besides, it's not like me to be afraid to rock the boat. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Now is not the time to start.
[b]Try these two articles; they have the information that you need:
[url="http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_micro.asp?TRACKID=&CID=1139&DID=8042"]http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_micro.asp?TRACKID=&CID=1139&DID=8042[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/"]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/3125/[/url]
It looks like the full amount of the settlement was 1 Million dollars.
[url="http://static.highbeam.com/t/thecolumbian/april162002/boysdeathledto1millionsettlement/"]http://static.highbeam.com/t/thecolumbian/april162002/boysdeathledto1millionsettlement/[/url] [/b]
I'm still sick over what happened.
[b]Prayers to Rick and Teresa for peace and comfort.[/b]
.................................{{{{{{{}}}}}}}

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 2:14am
Rhonda RS's picture
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To answer a previous question: Under 504, breathing or learning (among walking, seeing & hearing) can be affected. Under IDEA, learning must be affected.
I see where your question now is coming from (FAPE v. "reasonable") - you're looking at this through the IDEA lens. Below is a pretty good analysis. Accommodations under IDEA must provide:
"Responsibility To Provide A Free, Appropriate Public Education (FAPE)?--Yes. A FAPE is defined to mean special education and related services. Special education means "specially designed instruction, at no cost to the parents, to meet the unique needs of the child with a disability...." Related services are provided if student's require them in order to benefit from specially designed instruction. States are required to ensure the provision of "full educational opportunity" to all children with disabilities."
[url="http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html"]http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html[/url]
So, the law says that schools must "meet the unique needs" "at no cost" - so, my impression is that the school must meet the needs of your cub in order to meet its responsibility of providing FAPE in LRE (least restrictive environment).
Thoughts?
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Rhonda

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 2:18am
synthia's picture
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Rhonda RS,
Did you get a chance to read the thread I was referring to?
Comments.keeping in mind that it is a ruff draft!
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 2:19am
Nutternomore's picture
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MB,
No problem. RhondaRS and I felt the letter has much more impact when it is presented on official OCR letterhead...
Good luck [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 2:40am
Rhonda RS's picture
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Joined: 02/24/2001 - 09:00

Hi MB,
Below is a landmark Supreme Court Case known as the "Tatro" Case. I think this is exactly what you are looking for to demonstrate that schools must pay for accommodations under IDEA to provide FAPE in LRE and make it possible for a child with a disability like, OI, to participate for children without disabilities. The Supreme Court found in favor of the child and the parents. Read the case, let me know if this is what you were looking for.
U.S. Supreme Court
IRVING INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DIST. v. TATRO, 468 U.S. 883 (1984)
[url="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=468&invol=883"]http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=468&invol=883[/url]
"Respondents' 8-year-old daughter was born with a defect known as spina bifida. As a result she suffers from orthopedic and speech impairments and a neurogenic bladder, which prevents her from emptying her bladder voluntarily. Consequently, she must be catheterized every three or four hours to avoid injury to her kidneys. To accomplish this, a procedure known..." Read on.
Take care,
Rhonda
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 7:52am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]I see where your question now is coming from (FAPE v. "reasonable") - you're looking at this through the IDEA lens.[/b]
"COOL........" [i]Isn't it????[/i] (Grin so huge they [i]don't[/i] make a smiley big enough) When it struck me, I was like:
[b]"whoooooooooooooa. [i]I could run with this[/i]."[/b]
[b]Below is a pretty good analysis. Accommodations under IDEA must provide:
"Responsibility To Provide A Free, Appropriate Public Education (FAPE)?--Yes. A FAPE is defined to mean special education and related services. Special education means "specially designed instruction, at no cost to the parents, to meet the unique needs of the child with a disability...." Related services are provided if student's require them in order to benefit from specially designed instruction. States are required to ensure the provision of "full educational opportunity" to all children with disabilities."[/b]
So, not as advice in any manner or form, but your own opinion...........
[i]Do you *believe/think* a full time school nurse (RN) in the bulding with a child at risk for anaphylaxis is gonna fly?[/i] Might be new territory I'm walking here, but does [i]the literature and professional opinion[/i] indicate this? I mean, is that enough to demand it (in light of the paragraph quoted above and below: )? ........Under the OHI, IDEA/FAPE lens.
(Wondering what ever became of the bill in congress re this: full time school nurses/schools/health care needs?)
[b] [url="http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html"]http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content3/ada.idea.html[/url]
So, the law says that schools must "meet the unique needs" "at no cost" - so, my impression is that the school must meet the needs of your cub in order to meet its responsibility of providing FAPE in LRE (least restrictive environment).[/b]
[b]Thoughts?
[/b]
Am I "jumping the gun"?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Just offhand........is there any valid reason/justification for the school nurse NOT to be present at those meetings? I mean, isn't that just like not having the school psychologist absent from the IEP meetins? If she was to meet with me before the meetings, and not during, would that be sufficient. (grapevine murmurs....., nothing official, school nurse is on vacation still).
Hmmmmmmmm..............I think I am learning. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] (This is like the "we don't know where the location is to be for the program" thing, isn't it? I mean, if someone can meet before the meeting, they can surely be there [i]for[/i] the meeting? (iep reconviening)
[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:11pm
Rhonda RS's picture
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Hi MB,
I personally would want a full-time nurse wherever my child is going to school all day long. I personally would request this.
Additionally, with regard to asthma, I do not know about your state, but here in CT, only a RN can administer albuterol via a nebulizer. While other trained personnel can assist the administration of albuterol via inhalers, only a trained RN is allowed to make an assessment and actually administer nebulized medications. So - if your child often gets albuterol via the nebulizer to address asthma issues, then this would be another supporting argument for having a full time nurse (if you have similar medication administration laws). Katie still gets her albuterol via nebulizer, sometimes at school, due to a rapid cough reflex she has from her inhaler.
Yes, it would seem intuitive that the SD would have the nurse at the meeting, but you never know. Yes, I agree it would be like having the school psychologist absent. If the SD did not have the school psychologist present and made critical decisions without the knowledgeable individual's input, you could pursue procedural fowl play under IDEA and 504. However, you want to avoid having to get involved with OCR and Due Process. Create a paper trail, demonstrate you know more about the law than they, provide them with resources to assist them in doing the right thing.
Again, you don't know if the SD's lawyer is involved, what s/he is saying to the superintendent, principal and 504 Coordinator. So ask for what you want upfront in writing so that there your request are clear and on the record.
You are doing great MB! Excellent thought process. Keep up the hard work. It will pay off.
(BTW - I wanted to home school - My Mike said, "NO." LOL - Thoughts of Dr. Seuss [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Rhonda
Hi Mariam! Long time not chat. Hope you are well. How are things in your neck of the woods?
Hi Cynthia, Sorry. I will try to get to it soon. Can you give me the short version? Do you have a 504 Plan or OHI under IDEA.
Gary, buddy - how are you?
[This message has been edited by Rhonda RS (edited July 29, 2004).]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:32pm
Rhonda RS's picture
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Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 12:54pm
synthia's picture
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Joined: 10/05/2002 - 09:00

Rhonda hey you asked
Hi Cynthia, Sorry. I will try to get to it soon. Can you give me the short version? Do you have a 504 Plan or OHI under IDEA.
[b]Little V has a IEP, she has NO OHI.[/b]On the IEP ,Areas of eligibility are Language Impaired,and Developmentally Delayed (age 0-5) I have a meeting with the Nurse on the 9th of Aug. to develope her IHP
Thanks, I don't mean to be so pushy.
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 1:56pm
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by Rhonda RS:
[b]Hi MB,
Below is a landmark Supreme Court Case known as the "Tatro" Case. I think this is exactly what you are looking for to demonstrate that schools must pay for accommodations under IDEA to provide FAPE in LRE and make it possible for a child with a disability like, OI, to participate for children without disabilities. The Supreme Court found in favor of the child and the parents. Read the case, let me know if this is what you were looking for.
[/b]
absolutely. I mean, not a ltfa case, but so much to glean from it. [i]It's like the other side of the mirror.[/i]
To quote:
"The regulations define "related services" for handicapped children to include "school health services," 34 CFR 300.13(a) (1983), which are defined in turn as "services provided by a qualified school nurse or other qualified person," 300.13(b) (10). "Medical services" are defined as "services provided by a licensed physician." 300.13(b)(4). 10 Thus, the Secretary has determined that the services of a school nurse otherwise qualifying as a "related service" are not subject to exclusion as a "medical service," but that the services of a physician are excludable as such."
Understand. That "medical services" part. I mean, as a nurse, *I* am not a medical service. Actually, I am expressly forbidden from even determining medical diagnoses. In developing Nursing Care Plans, I use NANDA approved diagnoses. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] They are [i]specific[/i] to the [b]Scope of Nursing Practice[/b]. I mean, also, that I am only allowed, as an RN to perform what duties are [i]within[/i] my [b]Scope of Practice[/b] defined for an RN. (it's in my State Nurse Practice Act). [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
Sooooooooooooooooooooo, I don't see how a School nurse could be considered "a medical service". Or even what duties she/he performs. I mean, [i]I'm not allowed to practice medicine.[/i] Actually, I think, in some ways my actions as a [i]layperson[/i] are somewhat restricted/subject to evaluation/monitoring since I am considered, um........what phrase did you use? Oh, yes.........."[b]A Knowledgeable Person[/b], under the law". [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]
Secondly: I *believe* I have come across literature (from professional/qualified sources) that have determined a specifically qualified school nurse (RN) to be "uniquely" prepared and trained to assist in managing LTFA in schools. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] Hey, I could be wrong. But my memory is usually quite good. I'll try to find this reference. If indeed it does exist.
If it does, when I look at the sum of the two thoughts.................[i]wow.[/i]
Checkmate?
(thoughts?)
ps.......that "tatro" case......that was decided under "Education of the Handicapped" with a hedge bet on 504?

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 2:34pm
MommaBear's picture
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ran across this too:
[url="http://www.nasn.org/positions/casemanagement.htm"]http://www.nasn.org/positions/casemanagement.htm[/url]

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2004 - 11:35pm
synthia's picture
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MB,Found this I don't know if it will help?
[url="http://www.aap.org/policy/s010105.html"]http://www.aap.org/policy/s010105.html[/url]
Love this site
Synthia

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2004 - 12:01am
MommaBear's picture
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Joined: 09/23/2002 - 09:00

Quote:Originally posted by synthia:
[b]MB,Found this I don't know if it will help?
[url="http://www.aap.org/policy/s010105.html"]http://www.aap.org/policy/s010105.html[/url]
Love this site
Synthia[/b]
Absolutely. I just skimmed it over as I am on my way over to the district office to drop off paperwork. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] I'll give it a close read when I get back.
Thank you Synthia.

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2004 - 1:57am
California Mom's picture
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Joined: 07/14/2000 - 09:00

Good luck MommaBear!
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2004 - 4:26am
Rhonda RS's picture
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Joined: 02/24/2001 - 09:00

Synthia,
Nice find on the AAP policy statement. I've passed it along to a friend here in CT. -Wow, it's been two years since you started the "scared for V." post and contacted me. I brought it up because your district too said they wanted to give your child an OHI designation for food allergy, and then they backed down? Correct? I wanted to bring this to MB's attention so she'd be ready to travel the 504 road.
MB,
I'm not sure what you mean about the Tatro case and hedging your bet.
Ryan's Mom,
How are you?
Rhonda

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