what is the risk?

I would answer that question with an analogy.

Contact with the protein is, for my daughter, a spin on a roulette wheel.

Sure, she [i]might[/i] escape with no symptoms at all... and probably equally likely (for her) is death. Reactions of varying severity are more likely than either extreme. Those odds probably vary for an individual person, and probably even vary for the same individual on a day-to-day basis. But the longer such a reaction goes untreated (and un-noticed) the greater the probability for a "poor outcome."
That's euphemistic for "I'll sue the pants off of you for wrongful death."

The point is this--
[b] once the wheel is in motion, you don't control the outcome, and the odds are stacked against you,[/b] because a reaction of [i]some[/i] kind is likely. HIGHLY likely with the most sensitive individuals. [i]There are cases of anaphylaxis in which [b]even timely, aggressive intervention is not enough.[/b][/i]

The only way to win against those odds is to never set that roulette wheel in motion.

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]I would answer that question with an analogy.

Contact with the protein is, for my daughter, a spin on a roulette wheel.

Sure, she [i]might[/i] escape with no symptoms at all... and probably equally likely (for her) is death. Reactions of varying severity are more likely than either extreme. Those odds probably vary for an individual person, and probably even vary for the same individual on a day-to-day basis. But the longer such a reaction goes untreated (and un-noticed) the greater the probability for a "poor outcome."
That's euphemistic for "I'll sue the pants off of you for wrongful death."

The point is this--
[b] once the wheel is in motion, you don't control the outcome, and the odds are stacked against you,[/b] because a reaction of [i]some[/i] kind is likely. HIGHLY likely with the most sensitive individuals. [i]There are cases of anaphylaxis in which [b]even timely, aggressive intervention is not enough.[/b][/i]

The only way to win against those odds is to never set that roulette wheel in motion.[/b]

I know. It's these people---like school superintendents who says their data shows that it is highly unlikely a reaction will occur. Sadly, these types of people want black and white data in front of them. The fact that my child has had 2 contact reactions just does not make them care. I think they look at it like--well, he did not get carted off in an ambulance. Argh! Oh, and I am in process of 504....actually, skip that...they said they are implementing their version of a 504 whether I agree to it or not. I have been fighting for washing the peanut butter eaters hands. They say it goes against the peanut butter eater's rights. Crazy. You'd think I was asking for a wing to be built. The 504 the school is implementing is ok, but not enough. They just want to end the bickering and they think this is how to do it....to slam the door essentially in my face.

Can you tell I am a wee bit frustrated?

Well, that's like saying (and I'm on our local Little League Board) to the kids, "Okay, go out and play during a storm. Because the risk of getting hit by a lightening strike is probably similar to being in a plane crash."

We do NOT allow kids to play if we hear thunder. There is a risk, although extremely small. Lightening can be dangerous and we know it. Virtually everyone knows lightening is dangerous, therefore everyone tries to avoid getting struck by going indoors, staying in cars, not being the tallest object in a flat area, not standing next to a tree, etc.

Most schools DO allow PB or peanut products in the school. It is not unsafe for most, just a very small percentage of students for which it could kill them. Kids are messy eaters with dirty fingers that are all over the place and all over things. PA kids are bombarded with the allergen everyday and need to take *necessary* precautions to protect themselves.

Comparing a lightening strike to a food-allergic reactions is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

Using the lawyer's logic, I don't have to use a seatbelt because I probably won't get into an accident. You know, the risk is there. Accidents prove it. And now we have laws to ensure seatbelt use. Just like we have legal 504's to protect our children to prevent "life-threatening" reactions.

[This message has been edited by ryan's mom (edited February 17, 2007).]

mia, what does your allergist think of their document?

I'd refuse to sign it without having him/her look it over. Tell them that to do so would be against your physician's advice...

And then see if you can get your allergist to intervene on your behalf regarding this matter. Have you proposed this ludicrous 'question' to your child's allergist? I can't think that our allergist would like the notion of no handwashing in place. He'd freak, given her rxn Hx (which it sounds like might well be the case for you as well).

I also think you'd be well-advised to contact a parent advocate to help you. It sounds like you are being fed a line by your school. They can't do a "504" without you and [i]your consent.[/i] And it sounds like what they are trying to do is something informal that they can't be held accountable for. Don't put up with that!!

Are they refusing to hold an eligibility meeting? Because in terms of legal protections, the "peanut butter eaters" don't have protected rights. OCR does protect the rights of 504 eligible children to have equal access to a free, appropriate education, however. That would be your child, unless they have held a meeting to determine eligibility and found him/her ineligible. Has that meeting to determine eligibility taken place?

If it hasn't, then you need to find out why they haven't had an eligibility meeting. I'd get it in writing with these jokers.

No wonder you're mad.

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited February 17, 2007).]

Mia...can I leave a link to my school(the news came and did a story) the pb eaters now all sit together(just like the p-allergy kids) and they WASH after lunch....
[url="http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/10512488/detail.html"]http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/10512488/detail.html[/url]
(there is a video to the right. Anyways...schools can have kids wash hands, if they want to keep it in the lunchroom, then I think this is absolutly necessary.
Good luck...I agree with the above posters, I like the roulette comparision...and I like the idea of not signing a thing until the allergist reads it over!! HUGS

------------------
Chanda(mother of 4)
Sidney-8 (beef and chocolate, grasses, molds, weeds, guinea pig & asthma)
Jake-6 (peanut, all tree nuts, eggs, trees, grasses, weeds, molds, cats, dogs, guinea pig & eczema & asthma)
Carson-3 1/2 (milk, soy, egg, beef and pork, cats, dog, guinea pig)
Savannah-1 (milk and egg)

Quote:Originally posted by Corvallis Mom:
[b]mia, what does your allergist think of their document?

I'd refuse to sign it without having him/her look it over. Tell them that to do so would be against your physician's advice...

And then see if you can get your allergist to intervene on your behalf regarding this matter. Have you proposed this ludicrous 'question' to your child's allergist? I can't think that our allergist would like the notion of no handwashing in place. He'd freak, given her rxn Hx (which it sounds like might well be the case for you as well).

I also think you'd be well-advised to contact a parent advocate to help you. It sounds like you are being fed a line by your school. They can't do a "504" without you and [i]your consent.[/i] And it sounds like what they are trying to do is something informal that they can't be held accountable for. Don't put up with that!!

Are they refusing to hold an eligibility meeting? Because in terms of legal protections, the "peanut butter eaters" don't have protected rights. OCR does protect the rights of 504 eligible children to have equal access to a free, appropriate education, however. That would be your child, unless they have held a meeting to determine eligibility and found him/her ineligible. Has that meeting to determine eligibility taken place?
If it hasn't, then you need to find out why they haven't had an eligibility meeting. I'd get it in writing with these jokers.

No wonder you're mad.

[This message has been edited by Corvallis Mom (edited February 17, 2007).][/b]

Our allergist was never asked for input from the school. I asked him to write a letter for my child because the school refused to wash hands. He wrote a letter and stressed the importance of hand washing and table washing. They said they would only do it for assembly days.(3x per year) I have not spoke further with the allergist at this point. The pediatrician has written 2 letters. The school accused me of fabricating the contact reaction and demanded a note from the pedi. We got it, they lost the note, I brought another copy in a month later, then they said I was witholding the note. Argh!

I have not signed the 504 and they don't want our signature. They said they are doing it themselves and cc'd their attorney. Nice, huh?

He would be upset about it. But he would also freak that he has to "keep writing notes" for something like handwashing. He gets upset at the school, not at us, but the school won't listen to him.

We are hoping to speak with an atty next week.

They determined him to be eligible last fall. They just don't want to be told what to do. I tell ya, I am physically sick about this. We went through all the channels to work with them.

[This message has been edited by mia1964 (edited February 18, 2007).]

I don't have any documentation but my pa son had an anaphalactic reaction during early morning care (a few minutes before school started) from sitting at a lunch table in the gym where there had not been food since the previous day and the table had been washed. This reaction required epi-pen and ER trip. He has also had contact reactions to a basketball with residue and a computer key board (both requiring epi and ER visit).

Hope this helps,
Valerie

(One of the reason's we now homeschool!)

Was that your attorney who asked the question? or the district's?

I'm not recommending this, and I have some regrets about it, but we had our daughter undergo a "modified challenge" conducted by her allergist whereby she touched markers contaminated with PB and then wiped clean. My dd had a fairly significant reaction. I'll come back and post the link. Edited to link: [url="http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/004077.html"]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/Forum1/HTML/004077.html[/url]

As parents, you are 'knowledgeable individuals' about your child and his disability, and therefore you can insist on being a member of his 504 team. You need to be present during the Eligibility meeting, and during the accommodation meeting(s). If you object to what they are doing, insist that your objection is stated in the minutes of the meeting. Have it read back to you to ensure accuracy. Clarify what is written until it is accurate. Insist. It's painstaking, but you can do it.

I think you need to turn the tables around by asking the district what 'proof' they need. Don't allow them to run you around and then tell you they've decide isn't relevant. Take the power. Be the one asking them the questions. Get the answers in writing. Challenge their answers by insisting that they provide a legal basis. [i]Then[/i] obtain the allergist letter in language reflective of their request.

Run [i]them[/i]. Don't let them run you. I mean, where did the attorney find that a 'lightening strike' is the level that you must meet? Would s/he please cite the reference? Does the district have regulations regarding lightening? What are they? Are children allowed to play outside when lightening or thunder are present? Why or why not? Where does it say that 'lightening strikes' are the standard for comparison for disabilities? What's the legal justification for that comparison? Does the school district use the "lightening strike" standard for accommodations for other disabiltiies? For exmple, are parents whose children are diabetic required to prove that the chances of their child having a 'life threatening' reaction greater than the cahnces of a "lightening strike" if their child isn't given an accommodation recommended by their physician?

Oy. You can eat them up by using their twisted logic against them.

Do you have an attorney already? If you do and she/he is helpful, I hope you'll post about it here. Unfortunately, not many experiences posted here are too positive about the knowledge level of attorneys + peanut allergy. If it were me, I'd use that money by enlisting a good advocate. Rhonda is more knowledgeable than any attorney I've heard about, would be more effective, and undoubtedly less expensive. If attorneys are involved, and it sounds as if they are, then I'd encourage you to contact Rhonda. [url="http://http:/www.allergysupport.org"]www.allergysupport.org[/url]
]

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited February 18, 2007).]

I would write a letter of dissent, that you are not signing because..." ...."

Throw in lingo about free and appropriate education, failure to provide adequate protection for children with disability is against the law, reasonable accomodation (I think handwashing is very reasonable!!! and is required in other schools to prevent spread of germs and to wash allergens). Remind them that if your child DIES at school, or has ANY serious reaction because of their failure to provide a safe environment, they will be liable because they KNEW that you were asking for reasonable accomodations and they FAILED to provide them.

I'd write a strong letter, X out the signature line and write "not signing, see attached letter, date xx". Have a lawyer look over it if possible.

I've found that the school has responded quickly to anything I've put in writing.

Good luck.

EDIT

[This message has been edited by NicoleinNH (edited June 09, 2007).]

Exactly Gail W....what does a lightning strike have to do with peanut allergy. Force them to specifically answer this question. This analogy is just stupid. I would turn this around on them. Write a letter detailing everything (including the allergists letters). Hire an attorney if you can find one that understands 504 inside and out...not just any attorney.

I don't understand why hand washing would be such a big deal. One would think it would also cut down on the germs in the school and keep everything cleaner.

Sending good luck your way......

It was an acquaintance who said the lightning strike analogy. Not a lawyer we had hired.

I appreciate the advocate's link. We used an advocate before, a name from this site, and she was awful. Absolutely awful. Lost a lot of money with her. Plus she ticked off the allergist something fierce. So, advocates are not always helpful.

We will continue trying to support our position. Hubby said we should homeschool and we are considering that. I may do a search now and look at what others have to say regarding homeschooling.

Thanks for all of the info.

Quote:Originally posted by Gail W:
[b]

Run [i]them[/i]. Don't let them run you. I mean, where did the attorney find that a 'lightening strike' is the level that you must meet? Would s/he please cite the reference? Does the district have regulations regarding lightening? What are they? Are children allowed to play outside when lightening or thunder are present? Why or why not? Where does it say that 'lightening strikes' are the standard for comparison for disabilities? What's the legal justification for that comparison? Does the school district use the "lightening strike" standard for accommodations for other disabiltiies? For exmple, are parents whose children are diabetic required to prove that the chances of their child having a 'life threatening' reaction greater than the cahnces of a "lightening strike" if their child isn't given an accommodation recommended by their physician?

Oy. You can eat them up by using their twisted logic against them.

[/b]

Or, you might just eat yourself up chasing your tail. It's true, districts have far more resources (energy, time, money) than most families do. They also do not share the same vested interest as you: [i]your child[/i]. Protect your child, protect your yourself, your family. Weigh your options. What's best for you, your child, your family..... *IS* the ethical and correct thing to do. Don't feel guilty about doing it. You don't have to be a hero, you already are.

Quote:Originally posted by mia1964:
[b]I appreciate the advocate's link. We used an advocate before, a name from this site, and she was awful. Absolutely awful. Lost a lot of money with her. Plus she ticked off the allergist something fierce. So, advocates are not always helpful. [/b]

I think you will find Rhonda to be extremely helpful. I hope you will contact her. Several of us here, including myself, have worked with her and have nothing but praise. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I recommend her highly.