The mom who wants her child to have PB is brought to tears...

This is just ridiculous... The poor kid who ONLY eats PB sandwiches...

Too bad the mom doesnt have any common sense, to TRY any other substitute sandwich...

Too bad he eats PB for breakfast, lunch AND dinner... I wonder if he eats pizza? Nah.. MUST be a PB sandwich or NOTHING...

sigh...

Jason

Id like to bring that mother to tears myself! sorry [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I back you on that momma2boys!!!

I hope you can understand that there are other burdens that parents face that are overwhelming, serious, life-altering.

The newspaper article only skims what was said at that meeting. The moms mentioned have more behind the tears than just wanting their kids to have food choices.

Most children would relent after a few weeks of new food in their lunchboxes. A small minority of children will persist choosing hunger over putting food in their mouths that doesn't feel right, taste right, smell right. Lunch monitors don't cajole, bribe, insist that students each their lunch at school the way a mom can at home.

My son threw out his lunch every day for more than 6 months. He was loosing weight, lethargic, depressed. With some underlying health conditions (sensory integration disorder, mood disorder, anxiety all being monitored by his physicians) expanding his food choices was a battle we were losing. Granola bars, peanut butter sandwiches with whole wheat breat were sure hits. Dozens of other ideas were tried (some suggested on this board!) with a few successes to mix in.

For working families, children are out of the house from 8 a.m. to 5:45 p.m. and eat what's in the backpack or what is offered a school. That's a long time for a young child to go without.

Can going hungry 180 days a year kill you? Maybe not, but it can affect your attention in class, your ability to concentrate and learn, your self esteem. For some children, this is the beginning of a frightening downward spiral.

The mom who was crying may not be dealing with a life-threatening allergy, but she is crying out of a sincere concern for her son.

Newspaper reporters have little space to tell a story. They boil it down to a few soundbites that don't capture the unique details. I know this board provides support/information for parents living with peanut allergies, but others are reading these posts and seeking to understand.

Saying you want to make others cry, when you don't know the specifics of their burdens seems rather harsh. Parents who are most deeply affectd by food restrictions in the classoom do not want to endanger other children. They are just seeking compromise and understanding for their own children.

Quote:Originally posted by food4thought:
[b]I hope you can understand that there are other burdens that parents face that are overwhelming, serious, life-altering.

The newspaper article only skims what was said at that meeting. The moms mentioned have more behind the tears than just wanting their kids to have food choices.

Most children would relent after a few weeks of new food in their lunchboxes. A small minority of children will persist choosing hunger over putting food in their mouths that doesn't feel right, taste right, smell right. Lunch monitors don't cajole, bribe, insist that students each their lunch at school the way a mom can at home.

My son threw out his lunch every day for more than 6 months. He was loosing weight, lethargic, depressed. With some underlying health conditions (sensory integration disorder, mood disorder, anxiety all being monitored by his physicians) expanding his food choices was a battle we were losing. Granola bars, peanut butter sandwiches with whole wheat breat were sure hits. Dozens of other ideas were tried (some suggested on this board!) with a few successes to mix in.

For working families, children are out of the house from 8 a.m. to 5:45 p.m. and eat what's in the backpack or what is offered a school. That's a long time for a young child to go without.

Can going hungry 180 days a year kill you? Maybe not, but it can affect your attention in class, your ability to concentrate and learn, your self esteem. For some children, this is the beginning of a frightening downward spiral.

The mom who was crying may not be dealing with a life-threatening allergy, but she is crying out of a sincere concern for her son.

Newspaper reporters have little space to tell a story. They boil it down to a few soundbites that don't capture the unique details. I know this board provides support/information for parents living with peanut allergies, but others are reading these posts and seeking to understand.

Saying you want to make others cry, when you don't know the specifics of their burdens seems rather harsh. Parents who are most deeply affectd by food restrictions in the classoom do not want to endanger other children. They are just seeking compromise and understanding for their own children. [/b]

food4thought,

I can't even begin to thank you. WRT only to my own cubs as I do not know *the particulars of the situation you describe*: I have two peanut allergic children. Both of who have a type of "autism" (personally, detesting labels to begin with). They are both a joy and a treasure.

I mean, *I do believe* there are many *special needs* children *out there*.

IHP's and 504's (for example) not being just for food allergies.

Although I do not know *the personal circumstances you describe* and do not know the particulars............I very well understand what you are saying. As a matter of fact, [i]I have been told *I have issues*, myself.[/i] [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

There are indeed things my cubs *have no say in*. ie: Some things are not *a choice*, although to others, it may seem they are. It's just *who* they are: A joy and a treasure. I find myself asking for just as much *mercy*, if not more, related to my children's "autism" than their *peanut allergy*, as [b]I see *mercy*, understanding, compassion, empathy, etc.................as being equally important and having just as an important effect in BOTH situations.[/b]

Maybe it's just me, but I hope not.

Again, thank you for shedding a ray of light.

[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 25, 2004).]

Stacey K, do you live in Newton? Or, do you just run a nationwide search for articles on food allergy every day? It's really hard for me to go to these message boards that involve events that are actually happening in my community --about a policy that will affect my child's safety and inclusion in Massachusetts --only to find that the people commenting are in Illinois. Is there anyone viewing these articles on Newton, MA who actuallly has a personal interest in the outcome? Or, is it all just entertainment for you people?

Quote:Originally posted by Jesse'sMom:
[b]Stacey K, do you live in Newton? Or, do you just run a nationwide search for articles on food allergy every day? It's really hard for me to go to these message boards that involve events that are actually happening in my community --about a policy that will affect my child's safety and inclusion in Massachusetts --only to find that the people commenting are in Illinois. Is there anyone viewing these articles on Newton, MA who actuallly has a personal interest in the outcome? Or, is it all just entertainment for you people?[/b]

in another thread you mentioned:

[i]"The peanut butter is going to be hitting the fan in Newton. But, if the right people work together, we could be a model for the county."[/i]

I take it that would include Illinois.

Is everyone commenting from Illinois?

Is food4thought from Illinois, or somewhere closer?

I am the parent of two peanut allergic children who also happen to have [i]some other special needs[/i].

Unfortunately, you don't pay taxes in my community or are registered to vote here, so your opinion on the ridiculous peanut butter people is kind and supportive, but of no functional use. Unfortunately, people in Illiniois can't help me with my immediate goal of getting a ground-breaking food allergy policy passed in my city's school system in Massachusetts. However, once my city passes progressive policies that make public schools safer and more inclusive for children with peanut and other life-threatening allergies, others in Massachusetts and adjoining states will follow. Parents of LTA children in Illinois can use their success to promote similar guidelines/policies anywhere in the country. For now, however, I'm looking for people who can vote in my city and had hoped to find some here.

Food4Thought,

Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are right, there are many people out there with other issues as well. And we know all too well how reporters have a way of whittling down a quote to make it "quotable", and in the process completely obscure the original meaning.

However please understand where some of our hostility is coming from. Most of the opposition we face does not come from people with legitimate issues of their own, but from people who do not want to be inconvenienced, or have their "rights" trampled on. Some of the best support our members have received has been from people who's children had issues that could have placed them at odds with ours, but instead saw themselves as allies - parents who also understand what it's like to need accomodations and face opposition.

Amy

foodforthought, call me harsh. When you have to fear for your childs life every day, because someones kid [i]has[/i] to have p.b., we'll talk. When your heart stops everytime you hear ambulance sirens, and you sit waiting for the phone to ring and the school to tell you that ambulance was for your child, we'll talk.

I have 2 very picky eaters. Add in all the foods my p.a. son can't have, and try to make [i]him[/i] a lunch! So while I'm sorry all your kid will eat is p.b., my kid could [b]die[/b] if he doesn't wash his hands or the table good enough after he eats it. If you can honestly tell me that sandwich is worth more than my childs life, go for it!

Quote:Originally posted by Jesse'sMom:
[b]Unfortunately, you don't pay taxes in my community or are registered to vote here, so your opinion on the ridiculous peanut butter people is kind and supportive, but of no functional use. Unfortunately, people in Illiniois can't help me with my immediate goal of getting a ground-breaking food allergy policy passed in my city's school system in Massachusetts. However, once my city passes progressive policies that make public schools safer and more inclusive for children with peanut and other life-threatening allergies, others in Massachusetts and adjoining states will follow. Parents of LTA children in Illinois can use their success to promote similar guidelines/policies anywhere in the country. For now, however, I'm looking for people who can vote in my city and had hoped to find some here.[/b]

?

Quote:Originally posted by momma2boys:
[b]foodforthought, call me harsh. When you have to fear for your childs life every day, because someones kid [i]has[/i] to have p.b., we'll talk. When your heart stops everytime you hear ambulance sirens, and you sit waiting for the phone to ring and the school to tell you that ambulance was for your child, we'll talk.

I have 2 very picky eaters. Add in all the foods my p.a. son can't have, and try to make [i]him[/i] a lunch! So while I'm sorry all your kid will eat is p.b., my kid could [b]die[/b] if he doesn't wash his hands or the table good enough after he eats it. If you can honestly tell me that sandwich is worth more than my childs life, go for it![/b]

truly, my childrens' needs related to their "autism" can be just as [i]life threatening[/i] as their peanut allergy. Truly. Just as immediate. Just as deadly. Just as much a need. [i]Truly.[/i] And I have found such needs to be much more difficult to anticipate and manage. Even more difficult to teach my cubs to anticipate and manage. [b]Truly.[/b]

But then again, maybe it's just my family.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] truly, my childrens' needs related to their "autism" can be just as [i]life threatening[/i] as their peanut allergy. Truly. Just as immediate. Just as deadly. Just as much a need. [i]Truly.[/i] And I have found such needs to be much more difficult to anticipate and manage. Even more difficult to teach my cubs to anticipate and manage. [b]Truly.[/b]

But then again, maybe it's just my family.

[/b]

Mommabear, I consider myself to be a pretty compassionate person. And if there was something my child was doing in school that could easily cause your child death, and was something as easily controlled (like a sandwich), we would gladly accomodate.

I don't know a lot about autism so I dont know what the l.t. factor for that is, but it is to me very simple, if a sandwich could kill an innocent child, save it for after-school. Are these factors that can be controlled? eliminated?

Im not saying Im not willing to take others concerns into consideration. I did NOT ask for a p.b. ban in ds school. But I dont want to hear someone counter my cry that my child could DIE with crying because all their child will eat is p.b. I dont buy it. My own non p.a. ds used to eat p.b. everyday too, and he is very picky. He adjusted without complaint, and is surviving just fine without it. He understands it is a matter of life or death. Its funny how sometimes its easy enough for 5 year olds to get something many adults cant. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by momma2boys:
[b] Mommabear, I consider myself to be a pretty compassionate person. And if there was something my child was doing in school that could easily cause your child death, and was something as easily controlled (like a sandwich), we would gladly accomodate.

I don't know a lot about autism so I dont know what the l.t. factor for that is, but it is to me very simple, if a sandwich could kill an innocent child, save it for after-school. [/b]

would you ask a child to "accomodate" even if it affected their mental well being, or physical health? I mean, the same things may be of greater importance different individuals.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]
would you ask a child to "accomodate" even if it affected their mental well being, or physical health? I mean, the same things may be of greater importance different individuals.

[/b]

Hi Momma Bear,

I don't think restricting peanut butter from a child's lunch would affect their mental well being or physical health.

If they must have peanut butter, why not have peanut butter sandwiches for breakfast and dinner? It is only 5 meals a week (Mon-Fri lunch) that they are being asked to eat something different. They can still eat pb at 16 meals a week out of 21. For a proper nutritious diet, u can't just eat pb at every meal.

What if some new fungus appeared tomorrow and all penaut plants in the world died overnight? What if the peanut plant never existed? The child would find something new to eat.

If there was a medical reason that the child had to eat peanut butter for lunch, I think a way should be found to accomodate it... maybe a situation such as in GailW's school (actually, Mariah's school) where there are strict policies to protect the PA child ie: handwashing, etc)....

However, I think the point many people are making is that quite often, there is not a medical reason that the child must eat peanut butter, and it is just because the child likes it so much and is a picky eater and the parent thinks their right to feed their child pb is more important than the possibility that another child in the classroom could die if they were expeosed to pb traces.

I think it is the feeling that the other parent does not appear to care about the risk and may not even believe the allergy is dangerous. Just think of how many spouses, family members, etc don't think PA is that serious (from reading posts here)... even harder to educate people who have no experience with PA

Some parents say "but that is all he will eat".... there are millions of starving children in the world - children here are lucky to have so many food choices.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Hi Momma Bear,

I don't think restricting peanut butter from a child's lunch would affect their mental well being or physical health. [/b]

Again, I don't know the specifics re: the child in question at Newton. Just was inspired to relate that [i]I could understand[/i] the possibility might exist that yes, indeed there can be other "special needs" that others may [i]percieve[/i] as a "choice", but actually has a very significant impact on the child in question. I know this about my *own* children.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] If they must have peanut butter, why not have peanut butter sandwiches for breakfast and dinner? It is only 5 meals a week (Mon-Fri lunch) that they are being asked to eat something different. They can still eat pb at 16 meals a week out of 21. For a proper nutritious diet, u can't just eat pb at every meal.[/b]

Please Refer to my reply in this post above.

Just out of curiosity, how would you explain this to an autistic child not in the high functioning range? Again just for the sake of example? And maybe to present "choice" in a different light.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] What if some new fungus appeared tomorrow and all penaut plants in the world died overnight? What if the peanut plant never existed? The child would find something new to eat.[/b]

What child are we talking about? Would it depend?

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] If there was a medical reason that the child had to eat peanut butter for lunch, I think a way should be found to accomodate it... maybe a situation such as in GailW's school (actually, Mariah's school) where there are strict policies to protect the PA child ie: handwashing, etc)....[/b]

Who woulda thunk it? You mean to say parents of two children with different special needs being compassionate, understanding, and kind to each other and the children involved????? And at the same time realizing each childs well being is affected by the other? [b]Praise God.[/b]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] However, I think the point many people are making is that quite often, there is not a medical reason that the child must eat peanut butter, and it is just because the child likes it so much and is a picky eater and the parent thinks their right to feed their child pb is more important than the possibility that another child in the classroom could die if they were expeosed to pb traces.[/b]

So, is the mental health, and physical well being of another child equally as important? I'm also thinking [i]long term[/i] goals here.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] I think it is the feeling that the other parent does not appear to care about the risk and may not even believe the allergy is dangerous.

[/b]

Where?

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Just think of how many spouses, family members, etc don't think PA is that serious (from reading posts here)... even harder to educate people who have no experience with PA[/b]

I have a children with both PA and Autism. Personally? I've found it harder to educate people who have no experience with Autism than those who have no experience with PA. Even those who have experience with *other* special needs.

I mean, I have *lab tests* stating my child has a *class 5* allergy, for example, that for some reason *validates* my son's allergy and causes some people to stand back in *awe* of re: peanut allergy. I'm one of the *lucky PA parents* (LOL --- Sarcasm Intended).

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Some parents say "but that is all he will eat".... there are millions of starving children in the world - children here are lucky to have so many food choices.

[/b]

My child could be starving, and *still* would have certain *special needs regarding food*. Ya know what they say about water and equines. I mean, if I tried to force my children to eat anything outside of his *special food needs*, they'd probably vomit. As a matter of [b]fact[/b], I can say this with confidence. And that's just the physiological end of it. No pun intended.

Again, just highlighting a similiar feeling that was brought to mind and have no idea what the particulars are regarding any other children but *my own*.

Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Just relaying my *own individual, highly unique, and personal situation.*

Jesse'sMom
Yes, that's exactly it - peanut allergies are JUST ENTERTAINMENT FOR ME even though they could kill my child. You must think I'm quite an ogre if you believe that to be true. I am not ENTERTAINED by 'peanut' people who cry over their children's food choices when my kid could die from them. I am posting information like this in order to educate the board. Information is power - what could happen in your community could happen in ours.
I *will not* limit myself to posting about peanut allergies in my own community. This board is not about providing just you with actual, personal, local support. It's for everyone. I think the national 'tone' about peanut allergies and what happens in other districts is informative and useful to everyone here.
I resent your implication that this is just entertainment for me. I am a big enough person to sympathize even when the issue does not involve me personally.

erik - I agree completely.

Quote:Originally posted by Jesse'sMom:
[b] It's really hard for me to go to these message boards that involve events that are actually happening in my community --about a policy that will affect my child's safety and inclusion in Massachusetts --only to find that the people commenting are in Illinois. [/b]

I think we should be able to comment on peanut issues no matter where they happen. I live in Canada. Are you saying I should not post my comments on anything that I read about that occurs in the USA? I disagree. PA is PA no matter what city you live inand we can all learn from what happens elsewhere.

Here are some responses to everyone's comments:
First, many children eat 6 small meals a day, not the old-fashioned 3. In some cases, this is essential and medically necessary. Only two of the six happen at home, five days a week for working parents. The two at home, in my case, are hot meals where I can be there and offer alternatives as needed.

As MommaBear mentioned, there are many other health issues around eating. "Picky eaters" often aren't just stubborn kids with lazy parents. There can be sensory integration issues (oral defensiveness), reflux, autism, etc.

When a mother has reached the point that she is crying because her son has chosen hunger over other foods for months at a time, she is trying to protect a child for whom the absence of peanut products has become a chronic health issue. Sure a small minority might complain about inconvenience, but you shouldn't assume that is the reason behind everyone's disagreement with bans.

Every mother's heart stops when they hear an ambulance. There are many conditions that increase a child's chance of dying, including mental health issues. Among children 5-14 suicide is the sixth leading cause of death. There were 272 deaths by suicide in 2001 just in the 10-14 age range.

Child hunger is associated with higher reported anxiety/depression among school-aged children. To someone on the outside, the connection may seem far fetched.

I think the "indirect cause" concept might be why some non-PA parents have a hard time with the argument that very careful cleaning, handwashing, education on the signs of a reaction and full-time, trained, experienced RNs in the school aren't enough to be a reasonable accomodation.

...if a smear is left on the table, and it's not washed throughly, and a child accidentially touches the smear, then puts his finger near his mouth, then the teacher doesn't notice signs of the reaction, and no epi-pen is given, he could die.

You are not alone in fearing for your children. Some parents who don't agree with bans in the classroom/lunchroom (one in the same in some schools) do get the idea that this is fatal, life-threatening, frightening, overwhelming. I would say nearly all of them support education, cleaning, epi-pens nearby, and all other safety measures available.

Some parents face their child's health burdens without any treatment available. In the case of mental illness, you may see signs, but there is no epi-pen to make it go away.

The communities that have the most success, it seems, are ones where there is compromise and understanding on both sides. Schools can do their part by opening up the dialog sooner so these things don't become public divisions in the community.

[This message has been edited by food4thought (edited March 26, 2004).]

OH please...my daughter would only eat Hershey Bars for every meal if I let her!!
Sometimes I wish people could live in our shoes for a day or two!!!

[This message has been edited by robinlp (edited March 26, 2004).]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] I think we should be able to comment on peanut issues no matter where they happen. I live in Canada. Are you saying I should not post my comments on anything that I read about that occurs in the USA? I disagree. PA is PA no matter what city you live inand we can all learn from what happens elsewhere.

[/b]

Ya. What StaceyK said: "erik - I agree completely."

[i]Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. [/i]

Well if that is the case, you can all comment since I live right next to Newton!!!

My children have endured much in ways that defy explanation as a consequence of not fitting the "neurotypical image". [i]Still can't figure it out.[/i] I mean, what's there not to like?????

I find it much easier to deal with PA day to day. I believe they would agree.

Food4thought, have you ever heard of "shutdown"? I recently heard it while in the context of discussing one of my cubs.

Is there a consensus in the PA community that there is no need as great as our own? That the only threat to body and mind is death from anaphylaxis? I've seen a great deal of death, and it comes in many forms.

And I don't know why, but I'm thinking of the Milk, Egg, Wheat, and Soy (just off the top of my head) allergic communities right now. They [i]just gotta[/i] get along now, don't they? (just a hint of sarcasm, as the truth sinks in).

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear
[b]Again, I don't know the specifics re: the child in question at Newton. Just was inspired to relate that I could understand the possibility might exist that yes, indeed there can be other "special needs" that others may percieve as a "choice", but actually has a very significant impact on the child in question. I know this about my *own* children.[/b]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that there could be other "special needs" that others may percieve as a "choice", but actually has a very significant impact on the child in question. I think people are just pointing out that there are also many cases where a parents gives in to the child's request to eat nothing but peanut butter everyday for lunch.

Parents give in to their children too much. I am sure everyone can relate to seeing a mother at the grocery store, and the child throwing a temper tantrum since he wants candy and she says no, but then gives in and buys it. These days, kids are often spoiled and have so much more than previous generations.

So I would agree that there are times when it may be necessary for a child to eat peanut butter, but I also point out that in many of the cases, it may not be necessary, and some parents believe that their right to feed their child peanut butter outweighs the danger to PA children caused by the peanut butter.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear
[b]Just out of curiosity, how would you explain this to an autistic child not in the high functioning range? Again just for the sake of example? [/b]

Well, doctors recommend not exposing young children to peanut products as it could increase the probability that they will develop PA, so the child would not have to give up PA since they would never have been exposed to it [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img] Seriously speaking, I have no experience and very little knowedge of autism so I would not be a good person to answer this. Although I assume it would not be easy to do or you would not have asked.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear
[b]What child are we talking about? Would it depend?[/b]

I was referring to a child who had to eat peanut butter for lunch for medical reasons. If some fungus appeared that elminated peanuts from the planet, what would they do? Are there alterbatives? Soynut butter? Pea Butter (a product from Saskatchewan)? Are there alternatives out there? I do not know since I have never rleid on peanut butter in my personal situation.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear
[b]Who woulda thunk it? You mean to say parents of two children with different special needs being compassionate, understanding, and kind to each other and the children involved????? And at the same time realizing each childs well being is affected by the other? [/b]

That is my point... rather than the parents all arguing amongst each other at the school, try and work towards a compromise. Maybe there is a child with a severe allergy to fish as well? Accomodate all of the children based on their needs.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear
[b]So, is the mental health, and physical well being of another child equally as important? I'm also thinking long term goals here. [/b]

Of course it is important... but the life of the PA child could be extinguished in a moment due to a tiny trace of peanut butter ... this is the scary part - the child who requires peanut butter will not die if he misses it one day but the child who is PA will possibly die if he is exposed to it one day. The right to eat a peanut butter sandwich is not more important than the right of the PA child to be in a safe environment. Everyone needs to work together so that all the children will be in a safe environemnt and all have their individual needs met.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]Is there a consensus in the PA community that there is no need as great as our own? [/b]

I would not join that consensus. Every child's needs are important. Look at drunk driving. So many teenagers (and adults) drink and drive and look at the carnage on the road. The need to educate our children not to drink and drive is important to their safety as well.

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]That the only threat to body and mind is death from anaphylaxis? [/b]

Personally, I think I have a much higher chance of dying in a car accident than I do of dying from PA. I have more control over my PA than other things.. I don't worry about PA as I have it under control my control. (I am cautious of course). But I have no contol over a drunk driver slamming into my car as I drive along...

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]And I don't know why, but I'm thinking of the Milk, Egg, Wheat, and Soy (just off the top of my head) allergic communities right now. They [i]just gotta[/i] get along now, don't they? [/b]

I think other allergic communities struggle as well. Look at people with sesame allergy.. for example, (I hope it's ok to use your name..)... Anna Marie had to give up eating out in restaurants due to her sesame allergy.

But I think PA does have the highest profile as it is the leading cause of food borne anaphylaxis... for example, I had an egg allergy as a child, but it was not scary as the reactions were very minor - but I have read that the majority of anaphylaxis deaths are caused by peanuts.

Note that people with anaphylaxis to other foods (ie: fish, milk, etc) are in the same boat as us.... they have to be careful every day too in restaurants, on trips, at friend's houses, etc.

But PA does have the highest profile as the majority of food allergy deaths are caused by PA.

(but there are other things too, such as those anaphylactic to bee stings... we should accomodate them as well at school - every child's needs are important)

[This message has been edited by erik (edited March 26, 2004).]

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]
would you ask a child to "accomodate" even if it affected their mental well being, or physical health? I mean, the same things may be of greater importance different individuals.

[/b]

Not sure exactly what they would have to accomodate that would affect their mental health, so on, but give me a specific example of what is l.t. that my child could do and I'll let you know. Other than the suicide risk mentioned, Im not sure I understand what is more l.t. about autism. Not questioning you, just dont know much about autism and really dont know.

Quote:Originally posted by robinlp:
[b]OH please...my daughter would only eat Hershey Bars for every meal if I let her!!
Sometimes I wish people could live in our shoes for a day or two!!![/b]

Yes, I would have eaten McDonalds, pizza and chocolate bars throughout my childhood.. but my parents weer strict enough to ensure I ate stuff I disliked as well (vegetables, etc)

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b] My child could be starving, and *still* would have certain *special needs regarding food*. Ya know what they say about water and equines. I mean, if I tried to force my children to eat anything outside of his *special food needs*, they'd probably vomit. As a matter of [b]fact[/b], I can say this with confidence. And that's just the physiological end of it. No pun intended.

Again, just highlighting a similiar feeling that was brought to mind and have no idea what the particulars are regarding any other children but *my own*.

Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form. Just relaying my *own individual, highly unique, and personal situation.*

[/b]

I honestly understand about their "special needs foods" and the vomiting, but is there honestly only 1 food on that list? And I think while, yes, that is a serious issue, vomiting because of having to eat something is a far cry from dying from eating a food.

I am getting frustrated because this is a never ending circle that keeps coming up on this board. I understand that everyones problems seem most important [i]to them[/i] , and keep in mind my school serves p.b., but I feel like screaming! It is a sandwich! A child could DIE. What is so difficult to understand?? Even with a low functioning autistic child, there is nothing else, absolutely nothing else, that child eats?? How do you explain to that child that they have to do reading if they dont feel like it , or have homework if they dont want to do it? Sure its hard, but you cant really tell my kid not to die while they are having a reaction, and hope they listen and understand.

Im sorry if I have offended anyone, not trying to, but this thread is really making me angry to have to feel sorry for someone because their kid has to have something else for lunch. There is no mention of this child having any other health issues, mental or physical, other than being a picky eater.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]I don't think anyone is disagreeing that there could be other "special needs" that others may percieve as a "choice", but actually has a very significant impact on the child in question. I think people are just pointing out that there are also many cases where a parents gives in to the child's request to eat nothing but peanut butter everyday for lunch.[/b]

Glad that is cleared up. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]Parents give in to their children too much. I am sure everyone can relate to seeing a mother at the grocery store, and the child throwing a temper tantrum since he wants candy and she says no, but then gives in and buys it. These days, kids are often spoiled and have so much more than previous generations. [/b]

ai.....yiyiyiyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..........

[i]I sure hope you aren't directing this at me.[/i] I'm sick to death of hearing it [i]in any context.[/i] Would one would have to be a Mother to "relate to seeing a mother at the grocery store, and the child throwing a temper tantrum since he wants candy and she says no, but then gives in and buys it." to be able to assume:

"These days, kids are often spoiled and have so much more than previous generations."

A Mother of an Autistic Child(ren)?

An [i]Autistic Mother[/i] of Autistic Child(ren)?

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]So I would agree that there are times when it may be necessary for a child to eat peanut butter, but I also point out that in many of the cases, it may not be necessary, and some parents believe that their right to feed their child peanut butter outweighs the danger to PA children caused by the peanut butter.[/b]

Glad that's cleared up. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]Well, doctors recommend not exposing young children to peanut products as it could increase the probability that they will develop PA, so the child would not have to give up PA since they would never have been exposed to it [/b]

[i]Did ya see the study?[/i] left a big [b](?)[/b] with me.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b] Seriously speaking, I have no experience and very little knowedge of autism so I would not be a good person to answer this. Although I assume it would not be easy to do or you would not have asked.[/b]

Anyone? Anyone willing to comment?

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]I was referring to a child who had to eat peanut butter for lunch for medical reasons.[/b]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. [i]But, do you think it may be deeper than that?[/i]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]If some fungus appeared that elminated peanuts from the planet, what would they do?[/b]

Gotta love hypothetical scenarios? But, ya, re: [i]the situation I was thinking of[/i], My heart would go out to parent, child, and anyone else involved. [b]Wait......... my heart already goes out to other "special needs" families, [i]even if their concerns are different from my own[/i]. Heartbreak will do that to ya. It becomes very easy to put oneself in another's shoes. [i]Even when they are tight as he!!.[/i] [b]Easy I tell ya.

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[B]Are there alterbatives? Soynut butter? Pea Butter (a product from Saskatchewan)? Are there alternatives out there? I do not know since I have never rleid on peanut butter in my personal situation.[/b]

Neither have my children, nor myself, no my husband. But, hey, it's not my hypothetical situation, is it? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by MommaBear:
[b]

Who woulda thunk it? You mean to say parents of two children with different special needs being compassionate, understanding, and kind to each other and the children involved????? And at the same time realizing each childs well being is affected by the other?
[/b]

[b]Praise God[/b]. (That's my favorite part.) [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/cool.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]That is my point... rather than the parents all arguing amongst each other at the school, try and work towards a compromise. Maybe there is a child with a severe allergy to fish as well? Accomodate all of the children based on their needs.

[/b]

[b]Amen.[/b]

Quote:Originally posted by erik:
[b]Of course it is important... but the life of the PA child could be extinguished in a moment due to a tiny trace of peanut butter ... this is the scary part - the child who requires peanut butter will not die if he misses it one day but the child who is PA will possibly die if he is exposed to it one day. The right to eat a peanut butter sandwich is not more important than the right of the PA child to be in a safe environment. Everyone needs to work together so that all the children will be in a safe environemnt and all have their individual needs met.

[/b]

As much as I can say I've seen [i]Life Suddenly Extinguished[/i], I've also seen [b]Prolonged Death.[/b]

Don't know which is scarier.

WRT *my* children and their "special needs" and unique, highly individual, and personal situation and life and absolutely not wrt to anyone else not now or ever or in the past: No one, [i]not even I[/i] could [b]level the playing field[/b] for them completely, not with any human resourses I could posess. He!!, couldn't even do it for myself. But hey, [i]Lemonaide[/i]?

Disclaimer: I am not offering advice in any manner or form.

Quote:Originally posted by food4thought:
[b]Here are some responses to everyone's comments:
First, many children eat 6 small meals a day, not the old-fashioned 3. In some cases, this is essential and medically necessary. Only two of the six happen at home, five days a week for working parents. The two at home, in my case, are hot meals where I can be there and offer alternatives as needed.

LAST I CHECKED THEY ARE SERVED ONE MEAL AT SCHOOL. IF IT IS MED. NECESSARY FOR THEM TO EAT MORE AT SCHOOL, FINE, BUT IS IT MED. NECESSARY FOR THEM TO EAT 6 MEALS OF P.B.? L

As MommaBear mentioned, there are many other health issues around eating. "Picky eaters" often aren't just stubborn kids with lazy parents. There can be sensory integration issues (oral defensiveness), reflux, autism, etc.

MY DS HAS REFLUX, AS FAR AS I KNOW IT ISNT NECESSARY FOR HIM TO EAT P.B. AS FAR AS SENSORY INT. OR AUTISM, IS P.B. THE ONLY THING THEY CAN AND WILL EAT FOR EVERY SINGLE MEAL?

When a mother has reached the point that she is crying because her son has chosen hunger over other foods for months at a time, she is trying to protect a child for whom the absence of peanut products has become a chronic health issue. Sure a small minority might complain about inconvenience, but you shouldn't assume that is the reason behind everyone's disagreement with bans.

I'M GOING TO PASS ON THIS ONE, UNTIL YOU CAN SHOW ME AN EXAMPLE OF A CHILD WHO HONESTLY HAS CHRONIC HEALTH ISSUES AND IS STARVING BECAUSE THEY CAN ONLY HAVE P.B. FOR BREAKFAST, DINNER, AND A BEDTIME SNACK, AND NOT AT LUNCH.

Every mother's heart stops when they hear an ambulance. There are many conditions that increase a child's chance of dying, including mental health issues. Among children 5-14 suicide is the sixth leading cause of death. There were 272 deaths by suicide in 2001 just in the 10-14 age range.

I AGREE THAT SUICIDE IS A SERIOUS ISSUE WITH CHILDREN, AND OTHER ISSUES THAT MAY INCREASE THEIR CHANCES OF DYING, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MY CHILD BEING EXPOSED TO SOMETHING EVERY DAY THAT COULD CAUSE HIM TO DIE IN A MATTER OF MINUTES. THATS LIKE LETTING YOUR CHILD PLAY IN TRAFFIC CONSTANTLY AND HOPE THEY DONT GET HIT BY A CAR.

Child hunger is associated with higher reported anxiety/depression among school-aged children. To someone on the outside, the connection may seem far fetched.

AGAIN, IS P.B. HONESTLY THE ONLY ONE FOOD THEY CAN OR WILL EAT?

I think the "indirect cause" concept might be why some non-PA parents have a hard time with the argument that very careful cleaning, handwashing, education on the signs of a reaction and full-time, trained, experienced RNs in the school aren't enough to be a reasonable accomodation.

...if a smear is left on the table, and it's not washed throughly, and a child accidentially touches the smear, then puts his finger near his mouth, then the teacher doesn't notice signs of the reaction, and no epi-pen is given, he could die.

You are not alone in fearing for your children. Some parents who don't agree with bans in the classroom/lunchroom (one in the same in some schools) do get the idea that this is fatal, life-threatening, frightening, overwhelming. I would say nearly all of them support education, cleaning, epi-pens nearby, and all other safety measures available.

THIS IS WHAT IS DONE AT MY CHILDS SCHOOL. I HAVENT ASKED FOR A BAN. HAVE YOU SEEN 5 YEAR OLDS EAT? FOOD ALL OVER THE PLACE. I AM NOT SURE THAT IS A RISK I CAN LIVE WITH ANYMORE. WHAT YOU DEEM AN ACCEPTABLE AMOUNT OF RISK, MAY BE DIFF. THAN MINE, BECAUSE IT IS MY CHILD THAT COULD DIE.

Some parents face their child's health burdens without any treatment available. In the case of mental illness, you may see signs, but there is no epi-pen to make it go away.

SOMETIMES EPI "MAKES IT GO AWAY", IF SOMEONE REALIZES IN TIME THAT THEY SHOULD GIVE MY CHILD EPI. SOMETIMES THEY GIVE IT IN TIME AND THE PERSON STILL DIES. SOMETIMES THE EPI IS TOO FAR AWAY. ITS NOT AS CUT AND DRY AS YOU HAVE AN EPI TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

The communities that have the most success, it seems, are ones where there is compromise and understanding on both sides. Schools can do their part by opening up the dialog sooner so these things don't become public divisions in the community.

I AM ALL FOR COMPROMISE, I DIDNT ASK FOR A BAN, I HAVE ENCOURAGED THEM TO ALLOW "MAY CONTAINS" TO ELIMINATE FRUSTRATION FOR PARENTS WHO HAVE TO SEND A TREAT INTO MY DS PEANUT FREE CLASSROOM. I WOULD GLADLY ACCOM. ANOTHER CHILD TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES.

[This message has been edited by food4thought (edited March 26, 2004).][/b]

First of all, my son is egg allergic and as a result we have a version of an egg-free classroom - no egg sandwiches, no mayonnaise, no hard boiled eggs - although baked goods made with eggs are allowed but my son cannot have any of them. Parents were not permitted to send in "treats" for halloween, Christmas or valentine's - the children with those cupcakes or cookies for the class had them sent back home. Actually, a notice was sent out before the holiday that no food treats were allowed but a few showed up anyway.

[b]First, many children eat 6 small meals a day, not the old-fashioned 3. In some cases, this is essential and medically necessary. Only two of the six happen at home, five days a week for working parents.[/b]

Secondly, I agree that many children eat 6 small meals a day. However, not all 6 of those are at school. It is not an issue for a child to have a peanut butter sandwich for breakfast, so long as they wash up before school. I don't know about your school, but in mine the children definitely do not have time to eat an entire sandwich (peanut butter or not) during morning snack. My guy is lucky to drink a juice box and scarf down a handful of grapes.

The child who will only eat PB sandwiches is also welcome to have one for afternoon snack right after school at 3 pm - whether that is at home or at a babysitter's house. He or she can then have another one for supper - heck have two!!

So we are really only discussing lunch time here, don't you think? Let's not lose perspective.....

The original article does not seem to suggest that the guidelines are requiring a school wide "ban" but that children are being asked to avoid an allergen when there is a classmate with an allergy. In my school, the premise is that my daughter peanut free classroom is her 'safe' area. She will not be able to concentrate learn properly if she is constantly afraid that a life threatening allergen may be in that room. Therefore, when someone brings in peanut butter accidentally (which is extremely rare - it has only happened once this year) it is the child with the allergen who leaves the room not my daughter. Her environment needs to stay safe - the child with PB can go eat it elsewhere, under supervision and the teacher ensures that they have adequately washed up before they are permitted to reenter the classroom.

take care

deb

There is a solution to this argument. If a child's life must be protected by removing a potentially fatally allergen from their classroom and cafeteria, then my personal opinion is that we have a moral obligation to make whatever accomodations are necessary. Therefore, a child being a picky eater is not, again in my opinion, a valid reason to risk another child's well-being. I find in incredibly difficult to believe that the ONLY food item a child will eat is PB&J, and I also find it incredibly difficult to believe that a child could be kept healthy on a diet of ONLY PB&J. Now, maybe that's the only lunch food they like. Well, then they haven't been offered enough choices.

Mind you I am talking about children with no other issues. If there is a child that MUST have PB, because it is MEDICALLY NECESSARY, then I would think the parents of that child must provide a letter from the child's physician stating that their child must be fed PB at school, because it is THE ONLY FOOD that can provide for the child's medical needs and that THERE IS NO OTHER FOOD THAT CAN BE REASONABLY SUBSTITUTED. Then the school, knowing that they must comply, will have to set up a safe area for that child to eat their PB. In my opinion this should be the only exception.

Gee, I said in my opinion a lot, didn't I?

Quote:Originally posted by momma2boys:
[b] I honestly understand about their "special needs foods" and the vomiting, but is there honestly only 1 food on that list? And I think while, yes, that is a serious issue, vomiting because of having to eat something is a far cry from dying from eating a food.
[/b]

I mean, I don't ever ever ever ever ever make my children eat something that would make them vomit. Not ever. (Again, I mean). Can you imagine how repulsive I felt? Having done that to my own child? [i]When I should have understood and known better[/i] (absolutely personally speaking, sharing the same universe with my children).[/i]

I mean, sometimes I can't remember if the food even touched his lips. I even remember making a funny gurgle once. Off hand sort of thing. Cub begged me not to repeat it. I was like: "You are so kidding me!"

[b]He wasn't.[/b] I'm sounding like a rotten rotten mother, aren't I? But wouldn't ya know it, my cub's love me anyway. I mean, it's just the way they are. I really hope the world is *merciful*.

*****************************

Back to the post you reference:

No, there isn't only *1* food on their "special needs foods" list. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Kinda moot, since that's not the way I was referencing their "special needs".

I tried to make it clear. (but I'm really not great at that). Again, I am not familiar with the particulars of the Newton situation, I was just relating as I posted:

[i]Again, I don't know the specifics re: the child in question at Newton. Just was inspired to relate that I could understand the possibility might exist that yes, indeed there can be other "special needs" that others may percieve as a "choice", but actually has a very significant impact on the child in question. I know this about my *own* children."[/i]

My cubs, obviously, being PA, don't even eat peanut butter. The example I gave regarding my *own* children was not regarding a passion for *one food* and trying to substitue another, it was about a *particular* sensory issue and how, in a very very very small way, these things may surface, WRT *my own cubs* and not anyone else's. And neither indicating this was what was happening at Newton. Again, don't know a thing about the *particulars*. I was just inspired. Don't even know why. Something just struck a chord. Hoping this clarifies. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

quote:

Quote:Originally posted by momma2boys:
[b]There is no mention of this child having any other health issues, mental or physical, other than being a picky eater.[/b]

exactly, why *I* am not going to assume there is or there isn't. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

edit to correct all the accidental bold.

[This message has been edited by MommaBear (edited March 26, 2004).]

Erik, no problem bringing me into this discussion. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] (OT here for a minute; I'm kind of p.o.'d because there's this dinner theatre I want to go to -- they wouldn't care whether or not I ate - but I'm pretty sure they won't let me in if I don't at least pay for a meal....and dh won't sit there and eat in front of me - so basically that would be two uneaten meals we'd have to pay for)

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread - hmmm! Just checked the title, and it's not actually the topic!! I copied this from the article:

[b]While most of the focus has been on elementary school parents concerned about peanut butter, the guidelines are fairly broad and would apply to all food allergies and all schools in the district. [/b]

Now! What happens when one school has a student with: peanut allergy, one with fish allergy, and one with ana. milk allergy.

As for my son - his school does have a peanut/nut ban. It's not a big deal there. The ban does include the school yard too. It's really not a big deal. The kids understand - the parents don't fight it. Occasional *accidents* happen. A new parent to the area forgets and sends in pb. It is returned with a reminder about the ban. Other snacks are offered to the child.

And for those of you with *picky eaters* who won't live without pb. I had one of those kids. My two oldest kids were elementary age when I suddenly developed these allergies, and one of them literally lived on pb. He had other health issues as well - started grade one wearing clothes his brother had outgrown at 2 years old. But, after a few serious reactions in our home I had no choice but to ban peanut butter. And yes, I cried when I had to do it. How would he live? He's going to starve himself to death. I mean - these other kids are LUCKY at least they could have their d**** pb at home. My kid couldn't even have that.

Guess what happened? HE STARTED EATING. HE HAD NO D*** CHOICE. He's now well over 6 ft tall. Still loves pb. Keeps a jar in his locker at work.

**********

I've said it before - and I'll say it again. I'm not a strong supporter of peanut bans. My issue is all children must be treated equally - so if you are willing to ban peanuts for one child, you have to be willing to ban other foods for other childrens life-threatening allergies.

But this argument of "he won't eat anything else" is ridiculous. If *his* little brother suddenly develops pa, trust me, you'll find something else to feed him.

Sometimes part of the problem is how the child has been told: 1) Some brat at your school can't eat peanut butter and now nobody is allowed to, so you're just going to have to eat something else. vs. 2) There's a little boy at your school who could get very very sick if people are eating peanut butter at school. We have to help keep him safe by only eating our peanut butter at home from now on. I understand this makes you sad/angry but sometimes we have to give up something to help keep other people safe.

Which way were these picky eaters told? I'll bet a lot were told similar to example 1 - because their parents already had a grudge before giving the kids a chance to accept the whole idea.

Quote:originally posted by MommaBear
[b]ai.....yiyiyiyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..........

I sure hope you aren't directing this at me. I'm sick to death of hearing it in any context[/b]

Hi Momma Bear,

No, I am not directing this at you. When I post, I talk in genarl terms.. not specifically at one person.

In general, I see children today have everything:

- they drive cars to high school (when I was in high school,m we walked)
- they play Sony Playstation (we went int he backyard and played ball)
- they have cell phones and pagers (we had a rotary dial phone at home)
- they have designer clothes and $200 Nike shoes (we had Sears and KMart clothing)
- they have hundreds of toys (we had Lego)
- they have $1000 mountain bikes (we had $90 supercycles from Canadian Tire)

The point I was trying to make is that kids have everything. And the comment about the kid at the grocery store was to represent the attitude of many children today. They are demanding. In the shoe store, they demand the parent buy them the $200 Nike air shoes. They push their way onto the bus in front of the elderly. (note- I am not talking about all children, just some).

I used that example, beacuse I know when I was a kid, if I asked for a chocolate bar at the store my mother might buy one, or she might not buy one. But if the answer was no and I whined and pleaded and caused a scene, she would not give in and buy it. Kids need limits. They can't have everything they want. Twenty-five years ago, we were happy with what we had, and is was so much less than the kids have today.

I was relating this to the kid who says he must eat peanut butter as that is all that the parent will eat, and the parent gives in.

Of course, there are exceptions. Every single case is unique and must be judged individually.

But I just know I have seen many children in stores who treat their parents with no respect at all and the parents meekly go along with it. There may be cases when there are things going on that I am not aware of (ie: maybe the chld is autistic and I am not aware) but I am just talking in general terms about how children these days have so much and live like kings.

I am referring to North America of course.. go to poor countries Africa, etc and the majority of children have nothing that we have here. They may not even have food on the table some nights and have to worry about diseases from malnutrition (ie rickets), etc so the kids here don;t realize how lucky they are.

Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]But this argument of "he won't eat anything else" is ridiculous. If *his* little brother suddenly develops pa, trust me, you'll find something else to feed him.
[/b]

Hi Anna Marie,

I agree with everything you wrote. You wrote what I was trying to say. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by AnnaMarie:
[b]Erik, no problem bringing me into this discussion. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] (OT here for a minute; I'm kind of p.o.'d because there's this dinner theatre I want to go to -- they wouldn't care whether or not I ate - but I'm pretty sure they won't let me in if I don't at least pay for a meal....and dh won't sit there and eat in front of me - so basically that would be two uneaten meals we'd have to pay for)

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread - hmmm! Just checked the title, and it's not actually the topic!! I copied this from the article:

[b]While most of the focus has been on elementary school parents concerned about peanut butter, the guidelines are fairly broad and would apply to all food allergies and all schools in the district. [/b]

Now! What happens when one school has a student with: peanut allergy, one with fish allergy, and one with ana. milk allergy.

[/b]

[i]noting.[/i]

Please don't feel I'm trying to convince anyone to be any less determined to protect their child. I fully respect your determination. This board is your place to vent, find support. I'm just here for the education.

I'll just answer the questions as they related to my own experiences in case they weren't rhetorical and it helps you understand just one unusual, but not unique, case.

I agree with much of what your are saying. There are spoiled kids, and lazy parents. But, it's too easy to assume this is true about others we don't know very well, while saying "that's not my family!"

Some specifics:
Food my child eats at school and afterschool program (8 a.m. to 6 p.m.): Morning snack, lunch, afternoon snack, late afternoon snack. For more than a year he threw his hot lunch or home packed lunch in the garbage. Major academic problems and serious social problems in the afternoons. The nurse finally found out and called home.

Breakfast and dinner are all about getting the veggies, fruits, dairy and other nutritional requirements that are ignored the other 4 meals in the day. Sensory issues affect not just taste, but his reaction to the temperature of the food, the texture, etc. This makes for interesting food prep, and causes additional problems with packing a lunch.

We're talking 8 year olds. And in my son's case his sensory issues make him a very neat eater...he can't stand food on his hands or face. He'll happily wash his hand three or more times, too, more if you let him!

PB is certainly not required at each meal, however, because it combines protien with carbohydrate and he like it, it is ideal when we are not there to "insist he eat things that are good for him."

In my case, I don't need PB to be an at-school option every day, just a few times a week. I'm all for a peanut-table, or a peanut-allowed area outside the classroom. Peanut reduction and containment seems very reasonable.

Regarding spoiled kids: my 3 are in bed by 7:30 p.m., they don't get their way when they throw a tantrum, they show respect to each other and adults. Just one of the three has special issues around food.

As one study stated "Peanuts have a strong satiety value due to their high energy content, elicit dietary energy but not macronutrient compensation and promote ingestion of a diet with higher proportions of mono- and polyunsaturated fat." Translation: it keeps hunger away longer than other foods, and prevents you from craving other bad fatty foods.

I know it seems simple: sandwich vs. life, one meal a day, etc. I understand where you are coming from in wanting every possible protection for your child. Don't change, that's your job. It's the school's job to help balance your desire to protect your child, and other parents needs.

These are the specifics in our case: the classroom is the lunchroom, there is a ban on peanut, nut and airborne dairy in the classroom that has lead to some children eating in the nurses office (not the allergic children). The school tried to create a peanut cafe, where a small group of children would eat the offending foods in another room (with the nurse) and wash up before returning to class. PA parents (according to third-hand reports) opposed this compromise.

The guidelines in Newton are just guidelines, not policy. Sadly, that leaves it up to PA parents to fight the battle everytime with each principal (15 elementary schools). Some schools handle it better than others.

Thanks to much of what I read here, I contacted the PA parents directly to get the conversation out in the open instead of behind the scenes. I really think we can work it out.

[This message has been edited by food4thought (edited March 26, 2004).]

Quote:Originally posted by Jesse'sMom:
[b]Stacey K, do you live in Newton? Or, do you just run a nationwide search for articles on food allergy every day? It's really hard for me to go to these message boards that involve events that are actually happening in my community --about a policy that will affect my child's safety and inclusion in Massachusetts --only to find that the people commenting are in Illinois. Is there anyone viewing these articles on Newton, MA who actuallly has a personal interest in the outcome? Or, is it all just entertainment for you people?[/b]

Jesse's Mom--people belonging to this board who want entertainment and fun post in the Off Topic section.

If you are specifically looking for people from Newton, you need to post that you are looking ONLY for people from Newton.

BTW, if you are looking for help regarding PA or actually just about any other thing--You have come to the right place, however, ya might want to not come off sounding so negative towards other people on this board--we are only trying to help.

You never know--the people in Illinois [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img] just might offer a new idea that the people in Massachusetts never thought about! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

My dh grew up in Newton. Went to the Newton schools. We used to live in Cambridge and then Lexington. I am very familiar with where you are. You never know who is out there that can help you.

Quote:Originally posted by food4thought:
[b]These are the specifics in our case: the classroom is the lunchroom, there is a ban on peanut, nut and airborne dairy...
[/b]

Just curious...what is "airborne dairy?"

Taken from the article:

[b]"My son doesn't have a choice because he doesn't eat if he doesn't have a peanut butter sandwich," said Elaine Rusharruda, who was brought to tears when discussing her 7-year-old's diet. "The guidelines go too far."[/b]

Can someone please tell me who they think runs this household? I thought that the parents were supposed to be the adults.

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b] Just curious...what is "airborne dairy?"

[/b]

Perhaps the flying cow from the movie Twister? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Oooooooh, nice one Erik!! LOL

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]Taken from the article:

"My son doesn't have a choice because he doesn't eat if he doesn't have a peanut butter sandwich," said Elaine Rusharruda, who was brought to tears when discussing her 7-year-old's diet. "The guidelines go too far."

Can someone please tell me who they think runs this household? I thought that the parents were supposed to be the adults. [/b]

Hi e-mom,

The current obesity epidemic amongst children in America hints that the children are often in charge. Too much junk food.

Although it's not always the parent's fault either, as there are often not many choices... we recently drove along the New York thruway and many service centres featured McDonalds, Cinnabons, Ben and Jerry's, Burger King, etc.. not many healthy choices out there.

We waited until we hit the Pennsylvania border and then stopped at a Perkins (I ordered a hot turkey sandwich with mashed potatos and a cranberry juice). [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by food4thought:
[b]First, many children eat 6 small meals a day, not the old-fashioned 3. [/b]

When I first read this, I immediately thought of an over-weight child.

My children eat only 3 meals a day with 1 or [i]maybe[/i] 2 very small snacks.

Erik, think that 6 meals a day has anything to do with obesity in many of today's children?

Quote:Originally posted by momma2boys:
SOMETIMES EPI "MAKES IT GO AWAY", IF SOMEONE REALIZES IN TIME THAT THEY SHOULD GIVE MY CHILD EPI. SOMETIMES THEY GIVE IT IN TIME AND THE PERSON STILL DIES. SOMETIMES THE EPI IS TOO FAR AWAY. ITS NOT AS CUT AND DRY AS YOU HAVE AN EPI TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

Hi Momma2Boys,

Good points that you have raised. It is especially true that an epi-pen is not a cure. Even if you inject yourself with an epi-pen, it is not a guarantee that you will survive, as you could still die if the PA reaction is severe enough. The epi-pen should usually give you enough time to make it to a hospital, but of course, there are no guarantees that it will work for everyone each time. Sometimes it isn't enough [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b] Erik, think that 6 meals a day has anything to do with obesity in many of today's children?[/b]

E-mom.. I recently read on CNN about the fact that an unbelievably high amount of American children are overweight, and as a result we have an epidemic of childhood diabetes. I think everyone eats too much.. me included (although my main bad habit is chocoolate.. I try to stay healthy by avoiding fries, potato chips, ice cream, etc and I find the PA works to my advantage in keeping me from eating too much as it limits my food choices).

Although I can see in some cases, 6 small meals a day may be medically necessary (ie: if you are trying to maintain stable blood sugar levels if you have diabetes etc).. but in general, children are eating too much these days and another important thing is they are too inactive.. rather than playing soccer or baseball in the park or riding a bike through the neighbourhood like we did when we were kids, they sit at home watching tv or playing video games which also contributes to childhood obesity.

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]Oooooooh, nice one Erik!! LOL[/b]

Hi e-mom... yes, that's the first image to pop into my mind when you mentioned airborne dairy. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/tongue.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by erik (edited March 26, 2004).]

Ok, I know I am taking this thread even more off topic here, but I can't resist.

My kids are 7 and 9. To go to the park involves walking out of my townhouse complex to an area about 10 minutes away. This park also has tennis courts, busy sports fields used for soccer and rugby by both children's and adults teams.

Call me paranoid, but I do not allow my children to walk to the park and play there unsupervised. When they are older, they probably can, but my daughter is still not legally old enough to babysit her brother.

OK so to go to the park someone has to go with them. I work until I pick them up at 5. I am single. Who is going to take them - presumably me. But I also have to prepare some sort of food for us to eat for supper - unless I resort to that junk food like McDonald's or ordering pizza...of course I honestly could not come close to being able to afford to pay for take out every night even if it were the healthiest food in the world. I have to work at least one evening a week from home, as well to make up for the shorter hours I go in to work so I can accomodate the hours my babysitter is available.

The result - no, we do not go to the park all that often.

Just a reminder that it is not always as easy as you make it sound.

deb