it\'s happened...he\'s using PA as a punishment or tool...just like i knew he would.

Joey, Im so sorry that he is doing this to your girls. I would def. call your atty. He put your girls lives at risk. I wouldnt risk it again. He is obviously a danger to them.

I cant imagine how angry you are right now. Like you said even if he honestly didnt know (which he did), he should've left right away.

I think your atty. should be able to prove "endangering the welfare of a minor".

Again, Im so sorry you are all going through this and I hope it is over with quickly so you can get on with your life. I would get this taken care of now because he will obviously have visitation and who knows what he'll do when he's not living with you.

Good luck, my thoughts are with you.

joeybeth, sorry, I just really feel the need to remove posts like this one and I hope you understand why.

Edited for removal purposes.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Alternative to Mainstream (edited November 23, 2003).]

And, after you've had the opportunity to read my post, I'm going to edit it out, just as I did in your other thread.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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edited because....

[This message has been edited by joeybeth (edited August 07, 2007).]

joeybeth,my heart goes out to you and your childern,Be strong you are doing the right thing,Are the kids ok?Have you talked to the girls about what happen?I would talk to the atty.I just don't understand why anyone would put childern in harms way,It makes me so sick.Big hugs beining sent.Hang in there.
Love this site
Synthia

Just playing devil's advocate because I don't think that way, but my brother went through a nasty divorce and got accused of everything bad on this planet.

Your kids didnt get sick by the trip to that restaurant, right? They didn't end up in the ER right? Did they have any reaction at all? Cause you're going to be painted as the maniac mom, super protective to the point of obsessiveness when you'll be in court. Prepare yourself for it. Make sure you have everything about PA and its *variability* documented. He's going to attack you on this, I'm fairly certain about it.

joeybeth, I'm sorry for all this trouble you and the girls are going through.

Even though the girls came out of the restuarant reaction free does not mean that it was a right choice for them to be there. They were just lucky, in my opinion. They were put in danger and the potential for a reaction was a great risk. Someone once told me it's like playing russian roullette. It may not happen this time, but could happen at any time. I would point this out in your and the girls' defense 'cause you know he'll probably bring up the very same fact that "nothing happened".

I hope everything works out for you.

Quote:Originally posted by Lindajo:
[b]Even though the girls came out of the restuarant reaction free does not mean that it was a right choice for them to be there. They were just lucky, in my opinion. They were put in danger and the potential for a reaction was a great risk. Someone once told me it's like playing russian roullette. [/b]

or like driving under the influence?

But, yes, darthcleo, *I* get your point. Seems like the defense's job in litigation is to paint a "bad picture". Ironic, huh?

and again...

[This message has been edited by joeybeth (edited August 07, 2007).]

Joeybeth,
you have to remember that most people have no idea about cross-contamination issues. No one has any idea of what minute amount of peanut is a risk.
Based on your not DH comment about "you could have this ice cream, but mom won't let you", I'm pretty certain *he* considers you a control freak. And he *will* bring it up in court.

Not long ago, insisting on car seats was considered being a control freak. Let's say you refuse to bring your kids to the fair because one is lacking a car seat, it would have been an example of too much control. Judges do not like sending kids to live with control freaks.

Now, here, *we* all know it's not a question of control. Chances are the judge won't be one of us.

My whole family was laughing behing my cousin-in-law's back, because she was following doctors advice about introducing new food. No fish before the age of 6. One day my cousin had his daughters with him and fed them fish. No reaction. (turns out the kids are not allergic to fish). So everyone categorised the wife as being obsessed and what you have it. I'm sure I'm considered the same, although I benefit from public services here that put quite a bit of emphasis on peanut allergies above all other allergies.

I'm a control freak and super-protective mom when I refuse that my kids get mayo. [i]Come on, it's *only* an egg allergy, they'll get a bit red and that's it. That's what *everyone* did when I was a kid. [/i]

I am afraid Darthcleo may have a point, as well. I live in a family with food allergies(dh's family) and I know they think I am over the edge with the control over dd's food. It is not spoken aloud, but I know. I meet people regularly who have children with PA and are what I would consider lax about it, and certainly looser in their comfort zones.

It is terrible what your dh is doing, in general. He sounds so scary. I cannot imagine have to share living space with him, now that you feel so removed from him emotionally. Ugh. I think you should tell your lawyer everything that comes to mind and let her/him assist you in what to present or not. That is their job(hopefully, if they do it well). I also think you have other issues discussed elsewhere, that will add up to supervised visitation without too much of a problem, honestly.

Good luck. This is a scary situation from where I sit. I worry for all three of you. He is a scary man. becca

.

[This message has been edited by StaceyK (edited October 21, 2004).]

In addition to an attorney, how about the allergist's opinion on this, to provide medical backup that this situation or ones like it could prove fatal at any time. I would think your attorney would need a doctor's cooperation on this, preferably a good allergist.

and again

[This message has been edited by joeybeth (edited August 07, 2007).]

Quote:Originally posted by joeybeth:
[b]me sleeping on a sofa for months[/b]

Ok, obviously there are more important issues at hand BUT there would be NO WAY that I would be sleeping on the sofa!!!

Big hugs, Joeybeth!!!

wondering how a judge feel about a parent who refuses to have thier children vaccinated? refuses a blood transfusion for their children? participates in "faith healing: as opposed to "modern medical care" for terminal illness in children? Do the courts uphold items like this? Not making any moral judgements, just a relative comparison as to what may raise a court's eyebrows.

*Personally?* [i]I like the term "overprotective".[/i] *Personally*.

If a judge has to make a determination on whether to pick a father who has put a child at risk by exposing them to peanuts fully knowing they are allergy to peanuts or a mother who is only trying to protect her children from having an anaphylactic reaction, then I will bet that they will always side with being overly protective than to take the risk!!!

joeybeth, I just posted the last couple of days in Geoff's thread about Helen being denied travel insurance about eateries here and how we glanced in the window of one, Crabby Joe's, and saw a bucket of peanuts and we just KNEW we couldn't go in there. Do I consider myself extremist? No. I know, from my son's reactions, that going into a restaurant with buckets of peanuts placed around is not the place for him to be, and I'm sorry, your DH knows the same.

I also can see where some people, even in positions of power (i.e., lawyers, judges, etc.) could perceive the way that we live as extremist and controlling. Yes, we're controlling the environment that we choose to enter with our PA children so that they don't potentially have a reaction and end up with an Epi-pen stuck in them and a trip to the E.R.

Having said all of that, as others have pointed out, your DH can very easily say that nothing was wrong with either one of the girls when he brought them home. They escaped reaction free last night. He managed to terrorize you though, didn't he?

And I like Momma Bear's analogy about driving under the influence. I really do.

I think you need to get a comprehensive package together to be able to present in court to educate re PA - the residue issue (how everyone employed there had the potential to be contaminated), etc. so that a judge, if presented with you being a control freak, can perhaps learn about PA.

I also think you need to write down what reactions your daughters have had and at what ages.

Write down what your comfort zone is and why.

The thing that troubles me the most about this whole thing is that although both of your daughters escaped a reaction the other night, this might not have been the case. It's like Lindajo said, Russian Roulette. Jesse escaped having a reaction that day his Father and Grandmother took him into East Side Mario's while I went to purchase movie tickets, but we knew the he** better than to go back again.

And yet, in reading what everyone else has posted, I'm wondering if when any of us are presented with a situation such as yours, if we ever are, if we won't be painted as Psycho Mom from He** because of what we do to ensure that our children are safe.

I would just clearly document why I do what I do to keep my children safe and why what your DH did was not in the best interest of the children physically or emotionally.

I also think that you have enough friends here that if you ever needed us to present letters to the court down the way, I know I would showing them that you are certainly not alone in your comfort zone.

And, as e-mom said, I wouldn't be the one sleeping on the bloody sofa. No way in heck.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img]

What I continue to not understand, and it has nothing to do with PA so doesn't require an answer, but the man has served you with divorce papers but won't leave the house? I just don't get it. I understand and have seen marriages that don't work for the two adults involved but they agree to live a certain way so that the family is not disrupted, but that also means that they've agreed to stay together and don't serve divorce papers. Do you know what I mean? The people that "stay together for the kids"?
I just find it odd.

Simply document each and every move that he makes that you feel is endangering to your children's well being.

I would well arm myself for this one, joeybeth, I don't think he's going to walk away easily (since he won't bloody move out) and it does sound as though he could try to paint you as the one who is off-balance rather than him.

And I also can't believe that he brought the ice cream into the car. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img] Even Jesse's Father, who suffered severe denial when Jesse was first diagnosed and because of his denial it was one of the reasons we almost lost Jesse, managed to understand that he couldn't eat unsafe products around his son. We just made it our whole family policy that we don't eat peanut/tree nuts or even "may contains" and even though certainly Jesse's Dad has the opportunity to consume these products elsewhere (at school or work), he has chosen not to.

I understand that not everyone does that and that's certainly okay, but I can't believe a man would sit there in the car and eat ice cream in front of his kids and then present Mom as the bad one. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/mad.gif[/img]

Big hugs, and down the road should you ever require a letter or anything showing that you're not Psycho Mom from He** because of your comfort zone, I would be pleased to write one as I'm sure many members here would.

It might also be interesting to see how other single parent/separated/divorced members here deal with their children's Father, visitation, etc. with regard to PA. I know there are members here who are on their own with their children.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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This a legal alternative i.e. temporary custody that outlines visitation, child support and gives you the right to the house and orders him out.

You also could have it written in your order that he can not taken the children to restaurants that jeopardize their health.

I hope you are keeping a diary of dates, times etc. of all this information.

I would certainly have your attorney write a letter to his documenting this information and asking that he stop this behavior.

One more thing...will your doctor write a letter that outlines what your children should not eat and whether they are at risk in cross contamination issue etc. This will carry a lot of weight in court.

[This message has been edited by cathlina (edited November 23, 2003).]

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b]If a judge has to make a determination on whether to pick a father who has put a child at risk by exposing them to peanuts fully knowing they are allergy to peanuts or a mother who is only trying to protect her children from having an anaphylactic reaction, then I will bet that they will always side with being overly protective than to take the risk!!![/b]

That's because you're thinking as a PA aware person. Judges may or may not be like that. Chances are that they're not. And chances are that the other lawyer will find plenty of people (including doctors) that will say PA is no big deal, and that plenty of PA people can go to normal restaurants etc...

*HERE* we know more on this particular subject, but a court of law will most likely not be. It would have been better for Joeybeth, had there been an anaphylactic reaction. Now, she can be painted as neurotic. Heck, the kids didn't even need benadryl! Therefore mom is depriving them of a normal life! (again, I am playing devil's advocate. I've known about some nasty divorces, including my brother's, mentionned earlier. He was described as being homosexual, because he went hunting with a group of men and they didn't stop at the nude dancers after. If they had stopped, he would have been shown as sex-crazy. It's a no-win situation. BTW, he lost all visitation rights. "too violent", he hunts, and he raised rabbits for food. Reality doesn't happen in divorce court. )

I hear what you are saying Darthcleo as I realize that most of the world do not understand about PA, but don't you think that if the children corroborate (which I'm sure they will have to testify as it sounds like it's going to be a bitter battle for the kids) the dinner story a judge will see that as putting kids at risk. However, I think that the children's allergist will have to testify saying that the kids could become anaphylactic?

And, yes, I would agree that her DH might be able to find expert witness doctors who will say that pa is no big deal. However, I will assume that Joeybeth is going on the advice of her daughter's allergist as to stay away from peanuts in general because it COULD cause an anaphylactic reaction, etc.

Does that make any sense?

BTW, I'm sorry about your brother. Not all men are bad!!

Quote:Originally posted by darthcleo:
[b] That's because you're thinking as a PA aware person. Judges may or may not be like that. Chances are that they're not. And chances are that the other lawyer will find plenty of people (including doctors) that will say PA is no big deal, and that plenty of PA people can go to normal restaurants etc...

[/b]

Yup. understand. Very much similiar to the point I was trying to get across in the "debate" threads, "Peanut Free/Gun Free" threads regarding [b]Liability and Schools[/b]. It may behoove us all to put ourselves in a different pair of shoes from time to time. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:Originally posted by e-mom:
[b] Not all men are bad!! [/b]

I'll vouch for this.

darthcleo, I wanted to say that I've really appreciated your posts in this thread where you have been playing devil's advocate. Hopefully, joeybeth can see from what you're posting how important it is to get documentation to prove her case.

I really think that I based my last post to her because of what you had said - how things can be twisted and turned around to make her look like the *bad* parent in all of this.

I had an amicable divorce once. Perhaps because there were no children involved the oxymoron of amicable and divorce was okay?

Also, for me, I don't know what to tell joeybeth to do legally because she's American and it seems as though divorces are very different than there are here in Canada. When I read how much her husband was going to pay for the divorce lawyer I was shocked. My divorce cost $1,100.00 with both parties splitting the cost. Then again, that was just for a piece of legal paper, nothing to do with children, custody, etc.

joeybeth, I would raise the question about other single parents on this board (single, separated, divorced) and how they have dealt with this situation. You may get a lot of help that you don't know is out there because people don't openly broadcast their marital status all of the time. Right off the top of my head I can think of two Moms you could contact.

And back to one of my original thoughts about perhaps why you stayed in the marriage for as long as you did - you dreaded the day when this was going to happen and then further down the road when he does leave the house and the girls go to visit. Just really big hugs. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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as long as people realise that I don't mean all the things I've said in this post!!!

I've just seen how twisted reality is in a court of law. And this from the grand daughter of a judge, and the niece of two other judges, and the cousin of someone being fasttracked to a judge position...

Quote:Originally posted by darthcleo:
[b]I've just seen how twisted reality is in a court of law. [/b]

Yes, I definitely agree to this!!! As I know as well. Use to work with a ton of attorneys and had a judge in the family as well. A person must be very clear as to what they are saying in court otherwise, you are f*cked!! (excuse the language)

joeybeth, I don't really have any advice for you, but I want to let you know that I can relate to your situation. I posted a while back about a spouse not "getting it" about pa- and I remember your replies. I am truly sorry you are going through this. DS's father would take him to restaurants and refuse to bring the epi-pen. He makes comments about how DS can't have something because "your mother won't let you...". I have always done any work at all involved with pa. If my son needs asthma medication I have to sneak it to him. I have swallowed a lot of anger lately. Perhaps you feel the same way I do- I feel I always have to appear rational, composed, competent so that he can't say "see I told you all, she's obsessed or neurotic or whatever else he calls me". You know it truly stinks that we have to fight this fight with our children's fathers! You are not alone going through this! I think you are doing all the right things!

[This message has been edited by jaketoo (edited November 23, 2003).]

jaketoo, I'm sorry to hear about your situation with your son's asthma medications.
It is a very difficult thing when the child's other parent doesn't seem to "get it" re different medical conditions. I know that I have found myself in this same position and while I have educated myself really well re asthma and actually lessened the amount of meds both of my children are on for it, it has been questioned by their Father. When it comes to giving them their medication, should he ever be in the position to, he actually has to ask them what puffers it is that they require that day (i.e., there are days that the Ventolin is not required).

He basically had the same denial re PA and that is what almost cost our son his life. However, I do have to say that he does now "get it" almost as much as I do. It is still me that does all of the work re PA, particularly with the school and I did ask him one night what would happen if I should just drop dead. He said to make sure that he had access to at least one PA parent's name so that he could contact them!

I think it's part of the Mother thing that we do carry the responsibility, almost solely, for our children's health care. Just as we usually do for making sure that our spouse is taken care of health wise. And then, if there is any time left over, we take care of ourselves.

It is frustrating. It is scary. Because, what if? What if I die? What if we're in the situation that joeybeth is currently in?

That's why I'm really encouraging her to speak with other parents who are single and doing it themselves and how they deal with their children's Fathers to get an idea of how things can possibly work for her in the future.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Joeybeth,

I read your post and many of the other ones here, and then thought about your situation all day. I couldn't get out of my mind how hellish it must be for you.

I have to be honest, I can't offer any more advice then has been offered already, and I personally have no experience with this type of situation. But I can say this...

It almost sounds to me that this man is trying to make it so totally unbearable so that he can punish you over and over. From what I gather, he may want to make it so bad that YOU leave, or he just doesn't think you will and can treat you this way.

I am not offering you this as advice, I'm just going to say what I personally would do. Personally, I would not be able to live like that, huge changes for my children or not. I would be afraid that he would eventually turn my kids against me. I would worry for the mental and emotional health of my kids, living with such a person. Even if it took going to a shelter and leaving most of my things behind, I would go.

You're in my thoughts, Joey.

[This message has been edited by KarenH (edited November 24, 2003).]

I also don't have much to offer that these other ladies haven't already suggested, Joeybeth. One the one hand, I'm inclined to disagree with KarenH (re:leaving) as it might have the opposite effect and paint you as even more neurotic, but on the opposite side, it may even work better in your defense. That you are strong enough to stand up to your husband might also play well that you are strong enough to protect the kids!

So... go talk to that attorney. I'd also ask about pressing charges for intentionally and deliberately putting a child in harms way. Maybe if you got a court order for this [i]neurotic[/i] behavior on his part you could have him removed from the house? I would take whatever diary you have (Oh, how I hope you have one!!) and go see your attorney and ask what choices you have to remove this man from the home. Fact of the matter is, HE filed for divorce. That is equivalent of him LEAVING you, therefore, HE SHOULD LEAVE! Geez. Some men are absolutely despicable!

Stand up for yourself. Either remove yourself and your children from the home or have him forcably removed.

As for the allergist, if he is a medical professional and told you your children are peanut allergic, his professional career rides on supporting the medical diagnosis HE ALREADY PROVIDED. If he goes to court and says, "It's no big deal" and he provided you (formerly) with information saying the contrary, then he will be purgering himself in the court of law. His DUTY to his profession is the welfare of his PATIENTS. Your DH and his family affiliations could cost the man his CAREER. Did you keep any paperwork he provided you? If you did, then you can go sit down with him, explain the situation and have your attorney inform him that if he testifies on the behalf of your DH, he will end up with both a civil suit against him AND you will notify the AMA! He could have his license revoked.

You are not neurotic, but this is WAR! Don't let this continue.

We'll keep you in our prayers on this end, too.

~Melanie

A long time ago, I heard of a divorce from "bed and board" or something like that...which means that the partners continue living together though divorced. I hope your DH doesn't have this in mind. I have nothing to add, except that I really think this is mental or emotional abuse. I wish there was a way you could leave, but I bet he has a plan for that. Sounds like he has a master plan, so I hope you have a really savvy lawyer. I would call your attny immediately, because when things get nasty in court, you don't want him saying "yeah, she was so worried it took her 5 days to mention it to her atty". I agree that things will get super nasty, and you better be ready. It will be easier to find a judge to side with him (re: PA) than with you. Let's face it, we are all seen as lunatic, over protective, insane mothers by people who do not understand (and some who have children with PA)- and most do not understand.

You are going to have to get a new allergist, and that MD should be following your child for a while. I don't know how you get them not to tell Dad, because telling them not to is just putting them more in the middle. I feel for you. You have a hard road ahead

Melanie,

WELL SAID!!

Quote:Originally posted by pgrubbs:
[b]A long time ago, I heard of a divorce from "bed and board" or something like that...which means that the partners continue living together though divorced. [/b]

Umm, actually, a Divorce from Bed and Board is the opposite: One spouse is ordered to leave the residence (i.e., his "bed" and "board"), but not allowed to dissolve the marriage. Usually, it is done when one spouse is clearly wronging the other, and a divorce would further injure the other (e.g., in abuse cases where a divorce would leave the injured spouse without medical insurance, a home, etc.) That way, the other spouse still has the legal and financial benefits of being married without having to live together if the one won't voluntarily leave.

By the way, joeybeth, he may be staying because he wants the house. His lawyer has probably advised him that, unless he can prove you unfit, you will more likely than not get primary custody of the children, which makes it more likely that you would be awarded the house, as well, and that, in many cases, the court seems to take the idea that the first one to move out must not really care that much about having the house.

yup....again.

[This message has been edited by joeybeth (edited August 07, 2007).]

Well, now that I have had time to read this entire thread, I really feel for you. About the allergist, maybe you should find a new one who does not have any ties to your husband. Or here`s a thought: email Hugh Sampson. I emailed him awhile back, it was pretty easier to get his email address, and he emailed back within a few hours! He is the true expert on peanut allergy! You could email him (not telling him about the husband/divorce), just saying something like there is a restaurant that has peanuts on every table and the floor, is it safe to take two pa kids in there? Then he would email back that it is not safe, and you would have it in writing! You could do a search on his credentials, which I`m sure are impressive. I know in The Peanut Allergy Answer Book, it said that airborne reactions are more common from the shells than from the actual peanuts inside. I know a mom who has a pa child who has no problem sitting with his sibling who is eating a pb and j, but the same child was taken to a restaurant with peanut shells on the floor and the child had an airborne reaction before eating anything!

Here is another thought: I`m not sure what you could do with this one. When my dd was 2 1/2 a babysitter intentionally gave her milk, knowing that she was allergic to it. I took dd to the pediatrician and he reported it to the police. They came out and investigated. They interviewed my daughter and showed up at the home of the babysitter. Obviously it did not get to a trial or anything, but certainly it must have made an impression on her! The officer who interviewed my daughter was a woman and was really nice. She wasn`t at all interogating her, just talking to her like people talk to kids. I know you might worry about your girls being traumatized by the police interviewing them about their dad, but I would imagine they are already traumatized. About staying versus leaving, that is a tough one. I can`t comment on the issue of the house, but emotionally I personally don`t think it is benefitting the kids to be in the house with all that tension. It seems like they must sense it. I`m so sorry you have to go through this. It must be horrible.