Girl Scout Training... What do you think?

Oh my goodness! I am so glad our GS leader is a pediatrician. I [b]do[/b] [b]not[/b] [b]like[/b] this policy of children needing to self administer an epi-pen [b]at[/b] [b]all[/b]! Miriam

I was unaware of the GS's "self administer" policy. I think that my dd's leaders are unaware also. Either that or they are just kind and brave souls who have agreed to administer it anyway.

The idea of positioning the girl, putting it in her hand, falling on it all seems silly to me. Goodness, if they are that concerned about the liability of wrongly administering it, then they should probably consider the liability of not administering it (=negligence?). Wouldn't a leader be covered by "good samaritan"??

Gail

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited March 11, 2003).]

Gail, California Mom -- I was so horrified by what she was telling me I had to get up and walk away from the computer, I really did. The idea of my 7 y.o. being propped up to fall on her epipen in an emergency... I haven't got the words. And that this was, I take it, an official part of the first aid training.

Kay

I'm just curious, Kay. How did you respond to her?

Hi Gail,

I told her I was stunned and appalled. She really couldn't see why. I also told her that it was probably illegal on a few different levels -- requirements (like having a parent along) that tend to screen out the disabled are illegal under title III of the ADA, as is the refusal to carry or administer epinephrine to a child in one's care. (La Petite Acadamy ruling -- administering epinephrine appropriately to an allergic child is a "reasonable accomodation" they had to make to assure a child with this disability could attend. ) I've actually fought this one myself -- filed a complaint with the USDofJ about our local parks and rec who wouldn't let my dd participate without a parent attending with her epi. The US ruled in our favor and ordered the parks and rec to change their policy and forward to them documents proving they were complying with the ADA or face the consequences.

Last I heard, the parks and rec is "wonderful" about carrying epis for allergic kids. (s)

Kay

Oh Kay! Good for you! Actually, good for all of us! We have the same EXACT problem here with our Parks and Rec... we live right next door to a county park (operated by St. Louis Dept of Parks & Rec) that offers programs, so it would be so convenient. But they won't administer any meds. We are in Missouri. Would your ruling apply to us???????

Also, have you thought about using the information from your friend? I mean like contacting the Girl Scouts? Again, just curious.

Gail

Ok.......

Well, some of the first message sounds like something that would be said - trusting the girl, working with the parents, not being able to train leaders in every medical thing that might come up....but frankly that "propping her up to inject herself" thing sounds totally bizarre.

It is hard to imagine someone saying that with a straight face. To me that is even different then saying that the girl should be able and prepared to self medicate (which I agree with) but obviously in a medical crisis, assistance may be needed. And propping up a child in distress to "fall" on her meds is an awful image.

That whole "falling thing" also suggests to me that they don't know how easily an Epi is admistered...and suggest that it needs a great deal of force to give the shot.

I am a GS leader, but have not been (nor been required to be) at training for a year or so since I'm still working with the same age group. So, I can't comment too specifically - plus area councils differ in their policies too.

I would suggest that you (or your friend) approach your council and clarify/fix the situation. The overall message they are sending is wrong. And while I am happy to hear they were at least familiar with the allergy and Epi Pen, they are off base.

Since the topic here did start to include parks and rec I wanted to add some info. Two of my children work for parks and rec, working directly with children. All p&r employees must have first aid training. The training includes administering epi-pens.

I specifically asked my son what his instructions were regarding a child having an anaphylactic reaction and he said "Hand them their epi-pen" I asked what if the child is to young. In his job parents stay and watch so they are always there. Since they are not obligated to stay I asked what if they left. "I would administer it myself" He is trained and has to take a first aid refresher course every 2 (?) years to keep his job.

The idea of a child *falling on* an epi-pen terrifies me. I hope this situation can be resolved for you (and all others).

Gail W,

You BET it would apply to your situation... that's Federal law, which trumps any state and local law. Go to the US Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, and either print off or fill out a complaint form online. Doesn't cost you a dime. It does take forever, though -- one can't even expect the case to be assigned for about 4 months. But they get there... eventually. I'll see if I can dig up our case number for reference!

And yes, I do intend to forward the info to the USGSA national disability coordinator... to see if this is in line with what they *want* to be teaching. But I haven't found out what council it is, yet.

Kay

Well done, Kay! You are an inspiration and a blessing to all of us! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam

Ann Marie,

Thanks for that note. It goes to show, when they have their priorities in order, training on the epi can just be part of overall safety training for those who are responsible for children.

It might not always be perfect, but at least it's there.

Kay

Kay, thank you so much. I really appreciate that information. If I have problems with my local park district, I know I can contact you for assistance. I am so grateful to you.

And, hey, I think the Girl Scouts would appreciate the feedback. I know that "food allergies" is a hot topic with them right now. They need to hear from you. I hope you'll report back here on the boards.

Warm regards,
Gail

Gail,
I hope you do pursue it with your parks and rec. Although it didn't help us personally, I get a great deal of satisfaction knowing that allergic children attending those classes will be safer because of what I did. And the older I get, the more I understand the only way to get things to change sometimes is getting out the big club. (s)

I will let you know if I am able to pursue this any further with GSUSA. I'd also like to know if any other people active with GS has been through their first aid training and how self-administer was covered -- I've been through leadership training but had taken first aid elsewhere.

Kay

I can partly respond regarding first aid training in our service unit. The seperate GS First Aid course is only required in certain situations (for example if you will be taking your group camping, you need to have a certain % of leaders that have been certified in GS first aid) To be a regular leader, your first aid training is mostly done via a manual that you are to ready and have with you at all meetings, events etc...
Troops are required to have a first aid kit - but we are taking bandages and very basic stuff. For example, CPR is part of the specific first aid class - not regular leader training.

I have not taken the GS first aid class - neither have my other 2 Brownie co leaders or the Daisy troop leaders, since we do not go camping. So it is necessary to know exactly what your indivdual GS leaders are trained for, rather then assume that they have or have not been through courses.

[This message has been edited by Chicago (edited March 14, 2003).]

I asked if included anything about allergies and anaphylaxis. while the girl in question is being tended to by a person who is best trained to help her. The biggest things in this were prevention and communication. Either that or they are just kind and brave souls who have agreed to administer it anyway. being propped up to fall on her epipen in an emergency. The US ruled in our favor and ordered the parks and rec to change their policy and forward to them documents proving they were complying with the ADA or face the consequences.and suggest that it needs a great deal of force to give the shot. The overall message they are sending is wrong. In his job parents stay and watch so they are always there. I really appreciate that information. The only way to prevent the reaction is to avoid contact with shellfish.com I saw an add for this site while perusing an allergy website recently. Neither the owners or employees of PeanutAllergy. Always speak with your primary health care provider before engaging in any form of self treatment. Please see our Legal Statement for further information.com provides a support network for those facing problems with food allergies and many other life challenges. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of PeanutAllergy.This is just wonderful vimax, i appreciate your blog site and bookmarked the idea. I concur with a lot of the things you said and im waiting around for the new posts. Youre 1 of the very best write-up.