Could You Have Confused an Airborne Reaction with a Contact Reaction?

Hi Cindy,

I know I have had several airborne reactions.

1) Went to a Montanas restaurant and was waiting for a table. Did not realize I was sitting near a barrel filled with peanuts and that the bar was filled with peanut shells. At our table, started to sneeze and before I even began to eat I started to lose my voice. We left.

2) National Trade Centre - CNE. The HOme Show is held here. Nancy and I went once a few years ago, and they were serving ice cream covered with crushed peanuts at the snack booths. I started to sneeze, and sneeze more, and sinus congestion, and I left and went outside to sit on a bench. I had eaten nothing.

Airborne reactions for me have caused a runny nose, sneezing, and a hoarse voice (no other symptoms). I have not had a reaction like this for many years as I do not go to places (such as Montanas) where there are peanuts everywhere.

Although it must be a lage amount of peanuts to have the effect. If I am in a movie theatre, shopping mall, etc and someone eats an Oh Henry near by there is no reaction. But in a place like Montanas, I believe there is so much peanut dust in the air, that is why I have the reaction.

I also believe that if someone gets hives and nausea from what they think is an airborne reaction, that it could be from a contact/cross contamination reaction as you suggest, as I have never experienced hives or nausea, etc from an airborne reaction.

Cindy, I'm quite sure that airborne reactions to fish have been medically documented in the past. Since peanut evokes the same type of serious reaction, it stands to reason that peanut airbourne reactions are not only a possiblity but also a reality.

erik, thank-you for your response. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

river, I definitely believe that airborne reactions are a reality. What about the PA people we hear about on airplanes? They haven't touched residue have them, but only smelt the peanuts being eaten?

I strongly believe that there are airborne reactions that have nothing to do with perhaps having touch the peanuts that are causing the airborne reaction (or the residue thereof).

I just thought it was an interesting question worth looking at.

I know members here whose children have had airborne reactions and they touched NOTHING.
I am very fortunate in that Jesse has not had an airborne reaction (yet, touch wood).

Has your PA child had an airborne reaction?

I think, bottom line for me in all of this is, when our child does have a reaction, we go through the whole scenario. I am sure that if our child has an airborne reaction, we do wonder if it could have been contact as well. And we're able to either say yes, it *could* have been contact due to these circumstances or NO, definitely not, it was airborne only.

In the allergist's letter the allergist has stated that only "exquisitively sensitive individuals" (I'll have to look up the definition of exquisite again because somehow that didn't fit) have airborne reactions. This negated what Cam's Mom believes to have been her son's reactions. Now, a doctor negating what a Mother knows really doesn't matter, except in Cam's Mom's case where she needs the letter to get her child simply enrolled in school in a relatively safe environment.

No, sorry, I didn't want you to think that I didn't believe in airborne reactions. I do.
My best friend's son has airborne reactions.
She is the type of woman (and I think we all are) that would have analyzed the reaction to death (pardon me) and came to the very correct conclusion that it was an airborne reaction.

I think the discussion in the other thread was valid because it did raise the ? about whether we're thinking reactions are airborne, when, in fact, they are contact.
(This doesn't mean that I agree with that).
However, I do think it's an interesting question to raise, if for no other reason than to hear - NO, my airborne reactions were definitely NOT contact, no way, no how. There is no confusing the two.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Hi Cindy,

I posted a bit about my son's airborne reactions on another thread, but will share here as well.

A couple of weeks ago at the grocery store with my son in the cart we were going through the check-out. My son was fine the whole time in the cart, no problems. While waiting for the checker to start checking us through she started talking to me while doing some paperwork. I caught a strong whiff of peanuts on her breath. I then noticed an opened candy bar next to her register. I looked over at my son and he was rubbing his eye very hard and saying "I'm SO itchy!" and his face had turned red and possibly a hive on his cheek. Now, some may say it was a contact reaction from the cart, but we'd been shopping for awhile w/ no problems and that whiff of peanuts was just so strong even to me. It was very depressing.

Late last year we walked into a room where someone had been eating from a bowl of mixed nuts and before my son had touched anything in the room he was rubbing his eyes.

Also, last year, my son was standing face to face (entirely too close) w/ another little boy who was eating the dreaded peanut butter Oreo. My son was breathing strangely (exxagerated) and I was at a distance and asked him what he was doing. He said he was "practicing his asthma". He was breathing like he does when he takes his inhaler through the aerochamber w/ mask. I ran up to him and his face was red and his eyes were watering. A scary moment.

There have been times that I couldn't figure whether he was reacting to contact or inhalation. I just knew he was reacting. But the times mentioned above I am positive that it was inhalation. I've doubted myself many times in the past because I just can't believe he could be reacting this way, but I have seen a pattern now. I think it's one of those things that until you experience it, you don't fully get it. Hopefully most will never experience it!

And I can't tell you how sad it makes me that he is this sensitive at 4 years old. It makes it very hard when other's don't believe you can react to just breathing it in. Just one year ago, we discovered he was contact sensitive and at that time didn't react to inhalation.

Anyway, thanks for letting my share ~ probably more than you wanted [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] And I am VERY glad you are continuing to post. After all, ou are the 'mom' here in my eyes~and a class act!

erik, I'm not contradicting you, because you very clearly outlined your airborne reactions. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] However, I would like to add that I also believe that you can have an anaphylactic reaction to airborne only. I know a couple of members here whose children have had anaphylactic reactions to airborne only exposure - no chance of contact or residue.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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I think this is an excellent question!

Whenever we discuss this with our allergist, he immediately jumps into theories re airborn reactions. We try to clarify that *we* don't believe that Mariah is having an airborn response, but rather that she is rubbing her eyes (and other mucosal membranes) with her hands that have picked up some small amount of peanut resin. She isn't having the classic "contact reaction" whereby she is having a reaction at the point of contact-- her hands. But she does, however, get "contact response" on her face (hives, swelling) from transferring it these mucosal areas.

Mind you, Mariah has undergone an "airborn" test in her allergist's office which seemed to suggest she is NOT ariborn sensitive.

I think it is very, very difficult to determine. If peanut is around via airborn, then reason follows there is also residue around.

[This message has been edited by Gail W (edited March 07, 2003).]

Love My C., no, your post about your child's reactions was exactly what I wanted and needed to see (although I feel sad for your child and you [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] ).

Gail W., given that your daughter had the airborne test, do you ever think that she might, at some point in her PA life, become airborne sensitive?

Jesse's second anaphylactic reaction, where he almost died, as by merely touching a pb rice krispie square to his lip. Somehow I consider touching his lips VERY different than say had it touched his hand instead (I am searching for how to describe why I feel the lips are different).

At any rate, his anaphylactic reaction in December month was definitely due to contact residue. I believe, because he had a cold and was wiping at his nose, he got it on his hands from somewhere in that very small walk from the breakfast program to his classroom and it either went up and in his nose or through his mouth.

I am not a defeatist. However, I would not be surprised if Jesse did become airborne sensitive and even if one day he reacted anaphylactically. I don't mean to sound really awful about my son's allergy. It's just looking at his reactions and how they have been and all I can see left that we haven't experienced is airborne.

Of course, I'm touching wood this doesn't happen, but somehow think, somewhere along the line, given his history, it will. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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A former co-worker of mine (the one who introduced me to PA, before I even had children) had an airborne reaction once, that was clearly airborne.

Her roommate baked brownies with nuts during the work day. She thoroughly cleaned the kitchen.

When my coworked got home, she never made it farther than the front door before having an anaphylactic reaction. She ended up spending 3 days in hospital, and the roommate got 'fired' ...

Hi Cindy,

Yes, if I had stayed in Montanas and continued breathing in all the peanut dust, it could have led to an anaphalactic reaction for me as well.

I believe that when I was breathingin the peanut dust, it affected me enough to cause sinus congestion, sneezing, coughing and voice hoarseness. This meant my body was releasing histamine and having an allergic reaction. So it means that if it had developed this far, a more serious reaction could definitely result. Although I also believe it is much more likely to have a serious reaction from ingesting a peanut product as the amount of peanut protein would be more from ingestion than from inhalation.

Your thread topic made a good point too, as some airborne reactions could actually be caused by contact reactions. If nausea was one of the symptoms, I would think it was possibly an ingestion reaction, but anything is possible with PA.

In my case, I have only had sinus, sneezing, voice hoarseness from airborne peanut dust, but maybe the reason I never had an anaphalactic reaction was that I left the peanut environment and went outside so this stopped the reaction from continuing (plus the fact that I had taken a Reactine (Zyrtec in the USA) which I find is a very good antihisamine to take (it really helps me during ragweed season).

As usual I am off topic so I'll sign off.... [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

erik, you got me thinking (not that other people didn't). Here's something I rarely do when I'm discussing PA. I never think about my environmental allergies and how I'm affected by them and then take it one step further and make an analogy to PA. But it would make sense, wouldn't it? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/confused.gif[/img]

I'm allergic to perfume and other scented things. As soon as I walk into a room with someone wearing perfume, my nose flares up, despite the fact that I've taken my daily antihistamine. I didn't touch the perfume wearer, I merely smelled her perfume.

I'm allergic to paint fumes. The day that we did a very small patch of painting here (out of the whole house needing to be done), I immediately had to open every window. I mean, as soon as my DH took the lid off of the paint can. And this was with the weakest smelling paint available. I had every window in the house open and yet, my nose went wild.
It was swollen, my rhinitis got worse, my sinuses were flaring up, and it also triggers a migraine.

So why would a PA child not have the same potential? To simply walk into a room where he can smell his allergen, albeit a food one, and have a reaction? The same as the kind you have outlined, erik, where you need to go home and take an antihistamine.

And with people with an anaphylactic history, would it not therefore make sense that they could/would/should (or even just simply *maybe*) react anaphylactically to something
that they are allergic to, simply be smelling it?

I react badly to the things that I'm allergic to smell wise. Of course, it is not an anaphylactic reaction, but then again, I don't have an anaphylactic history.

And why is it I would never think about my environmental allergies, and their severity, when I'm discussing PA (is it like discussing apples and oranges or can comparisions be made)?

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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This article includes the story of the woman who died from her fish allergy, as river noted above. She was sitting in a restaurant when a waiter walked by her table carrying a sizzling pan of whitefish and she went into anaphylaxis. Scroll down to the "Assessing Risk" section:

[url="http://www.dotpharmacy.com/upnuts.html"]http://www.dotpharmacy.com/upnuts.html[/url]

The article itself is an excellent read from the UK.

As for confusing airborne with touch - I can't understand why some allergists deny it can happen? They are documented stories of children having immediate reactions when in the vicinity of a jar of peanut butter being opened. Remember the popping sound of the jar while the vacuum seal is being broken? That sends aerosolized peanut proteins particles into the air - the children who reacted from this did not touch any protein; they inhaled it. It would be pretty coincidental to have a touch reaction at the same time a jar of peanut butter is being opened.

Carolyn

Cindy,

Good topic...I totally believe there are airborne reactions, but I also truly believe that some of contact reactions are mistaken for airborne reactions for the same reasons Gail stated, they have the residue on their hands and rub their eyes. I think that theory is could be considered very real.

Questioning the reaction Cam had while in a resturant that cooked with Peanut oil being airborne or contact, is hard to say, my first thought was that he did pick up residue from the table, wiped his eyes and then reaction started. It wasn't till later that it dawned on me that we were sitting next to the kitchen entrance, and the door was opening and closing quite a bit, so then I wondered if it were in fact from inhalation.

I still don't know for sure, but would lean toward the wiping of the eyes resulting in a contact reaction. His symptoms were similar to Eriks known airborne reactions as in he started having a runny nose and watery eyes, progressed into irritability (very) and is actually what brought my attention to him, and then was very upset about his throat burning (that is how he, being 4, explained it). And once we were outside and given benedryl, he was fine within 10 mins. He was not fussy and his throat wasn't bothering him.

So in the end, I do believe there are definately a large number of airborne reactions, I don't believe it is as low of a number alot of Dr's want to believe. And there are probably a large number of contact reactions mistaken for airborne ones.

And Cindy, I believe you make an excellent point to the enviromental allergies being inhalation induced, so therefore, why would the smell of a food allergen be any different. And I haven't thought about that comparasion either. Excellent point IMO.

I may be completely off base here, but why can many individuals react to microscopic residue entering your eyes or nose, but the same would not be viewed as inhaling it through the nose...Still all microscopic and I have been around boiling pnuts enough to know that they do indeed have a high odor and alot of steam that it would be impossible not to include particles of the allergen.

Lana [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Cayley's Mom, excellent points! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I remember when I wanted Jesse to see what pb looked like. This would have been a few years ago. I forget why I didn't simply show him at the grocery store because I do remember the day I got the nerve to show him a bag of peanuts, fairly up close, at the grocery store (MKRuby comes to mind when I think of that). At any rate, my girlfriend brought a jar of pb over to show Jesse. We made sure that we left the lid on. And he**, I didn't know 1/4 of what I know about PA then, as I do now.

I think, as I stated above, *most* of us PA parents when our child has a reaction, dissect it piece by piece and come to a conclusion. Was it contact? Was it airborne? And I also really truly believe that 99.9% of the time, when we, as the PA parent (or person) completely assess the reaction, the conclusion we come to is correct.

Yes, we do have many members here posting that have PA children that are react to inhalation or airborne. We also have members here whose children react anaphylactically so.

For me, as another PA parent, if I read another PA parent's post on this site and she says that her child has had an airborne reaction, I don't question it any further (as far as what type of reaction it was). I may ask questions as to how it happened, etc. but I know that the Mom would basically know her child and wouldn't want to label their child as airborne/inhalation sensitive unless they *had* to. It's pretty frightening when your child is that sensitive.

Can we possibly confuse the reaction? Yes, perhaps at the beginning. But I truly believe that after assessment of the whole scenario involving the reaction, we would come out with the clear distinction - it was either airborne or contact, not contact confused as airborne.

How rare are airborne reactions? How rare are contact reactions?

I know that Jesse has navigated through this world for 7 years now and yet only this past December did he have his first contact reaction to residue. (Of course, that may mean that he is becoming even more sensitive, which is not great [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] ). On the other hand, it may simply mean that he manages to go through the peanut filled world, for the most part, without coming in contact with peanut residue.

Can you imagine? Simply sitting in a restaurant and a waiter goes by and then you're dead. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Hi - I hope to not be a thread killer here - I'm a little off the topic, but kind of there too.

Is it possible to find out if your child is airborne or contact sensitive without exposing them to the dreaded peanut? My Michael has REALLY high peanut numbers according to his RAST results, but we've never had any other testing done because I don't want to purposefully expose him to it.

OK - you can go on with the main topic of the thread & ignore me if I'm asking the wrong question in the wrong place. But it is just one of those things that I've wondered about while reading here all the time. Some people ask others if they are contact sensitive - I've always wondered - hmmm? I'm not sure.

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Sherlyn

Mom to 3 year old twins Ben & Mike - one PA & the other not.

Stay Informed And Peanut Free!

Hey everyone!

My little one definately has had airborn reactions. she is 4 and has life threat pa and Cat. She has gone into anap. with both. She was having reactions in grocery stores around Christmas. We started putting her in the back before entering the stor after wiping down the entire cart. She was still reacting. Starts with her acting sleepy and getting dark cirles under eyes. Then she has mild itchy eyes, runny nose and or sneezing. It was happening in the stores with open bins of nuts for the holidays. It took a few trips before we realized that had to be the cause as she touched nothing and no one touched her. We found one store that did not have open barrels of nuts and SURPRISE ~ SURPRISE, she was her happy helpful self. We have noticed that with airborn reactions the symptoms seem to subside after she is removed from the area. I swear I feel like I am going to have heart failure everytime I think of sending her to school. Cindy I have read your posts about Jessie and school. I admire you. This is so hard. Erick it was good to hear an adults perspective, too. When Kaitlin had her first airborn reaction her 6yo brother noticed first, sad to say. he said "mom sister looks like she ate peanuts". I was distracted reading labels. It worries me the way she will slump over, with dark circles under her eyes, like she is just so tired. You all probably think I am totally stupid, but does that sound a little alarming? Should I be more worried? We got out of the store quickly each time. It wasn't anything drastic about her reaction not like she reacts when she eats something. Thanks for raising ths thread. This site and all of you are my salvation. Thank you, Melody

Melody,

No one will think you are stupid for noticing when your child is not herself. That is being a good mother, IMO.

What you said about the "shiners" appearing and the tired sleepiness is something that Cameron demonstrated at the resturant, but I didn't take notice until I was "analyzing the events" later on. He always has the shiners, but particularly remember how dark they were in the resturant, and thought I was just paranoid, then he began to act sleepy and when he started being real irritable, I assumed at first he was tired...then when he would do nothing but cry (Cameron is not a crier, especially in public) is when I started taking notice to my "paranoia", then he started complaining of the burning throat...I knew then he was reacting.

Erik, when you were having your reactions, you say you would start to loose your voice, was there some kind of feeling (throat wise) that a young child would describe as burning? I'm trying to figure out how to explain this symptom, and I'm having to go by a 5 yr old's description. It could actually be what he feels as burning, and I reckon he will be the one to be voicing it, so I guess it doesn't matter, but I've always wondered how it felt, so I could explain properly. (Geez, talk about over analyzing)

Lana [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

Spudberry, I felt sad for how you posted your reply and question. Why? Because you thought that because you had gone, what I consider slightly off topic, you would get ignored and not get an answer and may even get in trouble from who knows for doing so.
That makes me really sad. I don't know, but I often veer off topic in a discussion thread. For me, that basically means, that if someone doesn't answer the ? that I raised slightly off topic, I simply take it out and raise it myself. Or, I'll see a great question staring at me from the monitor in a discussion thread that is related to the topic, but again, a bit off topic, and that's truly where I get most of my questions from.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] I am serious. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I'd like to see if you do get a response in this thread. However, I do have to say that I feel really sad that you felt you would be ignored or dismissed for raising it in this thread. You saw something that was related on the board to-day and thought, what the heck, I'll ask my question in there instead of raising a new question. What's wrong with that? Who could possibly find fault with that? I just don't want you to feel badly.
[img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

On the same note, I do think your question is important and might get the attention it deserves and the answer you need if you did raise it as a separate question.

Your question:-

Is it possible to find out if your child is airborne or contact sensitive
without exposing them to the dreaded peanut?

Now, I figured out already, that's too long to be a title for a thread. Possible to find out if airborne or contact sensitive without exposure? I don't know if even that is too long.

I just felt sad by your post. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img] And I guess I feel doubly bad because I don't have an answer for you.

What did Gail W. mention in this thread about having her daughter tested for airborne reactions? How was that done?

Remember, no question is ever too stupid to ask here. And ask for the *right* and *wrong* place to ask a question, heck, if I paid any heed to what others might truly think, with my litany of never ending questions, I would never have started posting here to begin with. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

I just recently saw (within the last week) a thread that went TOTALLY off topic. It had nothing to do with the original question or problem that was being discussed. TOTALLY off topic. And yet people kept discussing and getting answers to the off topic part and certainly no one gave them sh** for doing so.
What I believe finally happened was the people discussing the off topic situation realized it did warrant it's own thread.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Quote:Originally posted by Cam's Mom:
[b]Erik, when you were having your reactions, you say you would start to loose your voice, was there some kind of feeling (throat wise) that a young child would describe as burning? I'm trying to figure out how to explain this symptom, and I'm having to go by a 5 yr old's description. [/b]

Hi Lana,

I have never felt a burnign in my throat. It is more like an itchy feeling, like a tickle in my throat that doesn't go away and I get a bit of a cough and my voice starts to get hoarse, and I keep clearing my throat.

I don't feel a burning, but then again, a 5 year old child could describe it as a burning sensation. Personally it feels more like a tickle, itchy, feeling when I need to cough/clear my throat.

Not sure how helpful this will be to you... but my voice definitely does get hoarse like I have a cold.

G'day Cindy,

Helen's anaphylactic reaction on the Qantas jet our of LA occurred before the fod had been served. The food was in the ovens and it was a beef stir fry with PN oil. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

It happened well before we could smell anything (we did smell the food later, as it got hotter in the ovens). It smelt peanutty to both of us.

Geoff (Helen's hubby)

I think the main problem with flying, is that although the flight may be peanut free, it doesnt mean that peanuts/nuts have ever been eaten on the flight.
When peanuts are eaten , everyone wipes greasy fingers on seats , walls etc . I am sure that this could either be a starting point for a contact reaction, perhaps going in to anaphylaxis before you are off the ground!
My next question is Does the 'type' of peanuts make a difference or an air bourne reaction more likely?
I am thinking of dry roasted peanuts, which seem to cause the powder that is so easy to get in the air.
Williams last peanut contact reaction was from dry roasted peanut dust from his fathers clothes.
I wonder if these peanuts are the main culprits for causing the air bourne reactions?
My uncle has had a reaction in a fishmongers , and does not have an epi-pen ( long story) and is allergic to shell fish . The last place he would go nowadays is to the fishmonger after he waited for a nice bit of cod, only to suffer a huge asthma attack.
In the past when he has eaten shell fish his speach has become slurred and his asthma needed treatment fairly quickly!
sarah

My 8 yo dd gets a hoarse voice as well. She describes it to me as "loosing her voice". She compares it to the time when she had laryngitis (sp?). Her throat felt tight and she kept trying to clear her throat as if there was something there, what I assumed was because of constriction. For some reason with the "milder" reactions she gets the itchy mouth but with the severe ones she gets only the tightness and hoarseness, not itchy.
Laureen

My ds had a severe reaction to airborne pb (opening a sandwich) in a closed car. He didn't touch a thing, and I believe, if not treated, it would have been anaphylactic (it might have been, already, depending on the definition used). He also, quite frequently, has symptoms like the ichy eyes, runny nose, sneeze, cough, in various places, but since he has other food allergies, also, and environmental allergies, it is impossible to pinpoint the cause. But, I do know that it is some type of airborne reaction (because it does happen even w/o any contact). I also think that the severity would not only be due to how allergic the individual, but to the amount of protein in a air (cooking, breaking shells, opening many bags, and many people eating would probably put the most protein into the air), as well as whether it is an enclosed or well-ventilated area .

Spudberry, I have never heard of a test to know for sure the severity of ones allergy (contact or aero allegic) without actually exposing the individual to the allergen. The allergists consider the double blind placebo . . . test their gold standard to look for a reaction, so w/o exposing the person to the allergen, I can't see how they would know if the reaction would be to injestion and not to contact or airborne. This might not exist, yet, but it would be great for the DNA researchers to try to come up with this test.

Another twist to this question that seems to come up, is why there is no differentiation in the contact reaction? I think that there is a BIG difference in a skin contact reaction vs. a contact reaction which then is transferred to a mucous membrane (mouth, nose, eyes) and enters the body. My feeling is that they are completely different, with regards to which body systems are affected and the severity. If somebody is said not to be contact sensitive (skin doesn't react to allergen), what would happen if the allergen enters the body (hand to nose, eye,mouth)? Or is it that they don't react to trace amount on or in the body?

Sorry so long,
Andrea

[This message has been edited by ACBaay (edited March 07, 2003).]

Erik: Thought I'd let you know that I just read in the RESTAURANT forum a post by MeganC that the Montana's in Newmarket have removed the peanuts from the bar area. Maybe this is something that the whole chain will be doing .... need to check it out before going there.

Thanks for the info Codyman. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

My son (18) had an airborne reaction at school on Halloween. It was well documented and involved two systems.

It's over in the airborne thread someone else started awhile ago.

I spoke to an allergist and he said that even if DS wore a surgical mask in an area that had lots of peanuts like his college cafeteria, the airborne particles would get in his eyes and he would react.

Kevin's first airborne reaction that we were aware of happened when he was 3. We carried him onto the plane fast asleep. We strapped him into his carseat, still asleep. He was just fine until they passed out the d*mned peanuts and 100+ people ripped open the bags. Still asleep, he started coughing and scratching at this neck. I turned on the light, and he was covered with hives. Think [b]that[/b] would convince an allergist who doesn't believe in airborne allergies?

A few years ago, his older brother's friend came over to the house immediately after eating a bag of peanut M&M's (unbeknownst to us). Kevin came over to talk to him, and within about 60 seconds had hives all over his face, just from the peanuts on this boy's breath.

A few months after that, we parked our car outside a restaurant which smelled fabulous. Again within 60 seconds he was covered in hives. It took me hours to put two and two together; I kept trying to figure out what he had eaten. It wasn't what he had eaten but what he had smelled - the restaurant was a falafel joint, and he is also allergic to sesame and chick peas. No chance of physical contact, just standing outside a restaurant for all of about half a minute.

There were probably more before we were educated, I just never realized it. He was always having "mystery hives", coughs, etc. before we even knew he was PA.

Amy

[This message has been edited by Going Nuts (edited March 07, 2003).]

I remember Claire's son having an airborne reaction after his sister had eaten her peanut Hallowe'en candy (not near Chris, so he didn't touch it or come into contact with residue) and she simply walked by him. He smelled it on her and did have a reaction. I don't think it was anaphylactic. It's probably in the Hallowe'en thread under Living with PA.

I do think it is debatable whether or not there is peanut residue on everything in an airplane thereby suggesting that the airborne reactions people have posted about here are actually reactions to residue. I really do.
I think, from what people have posted here, that they're out and out airborne reactions and no question about it whatsoever. I am sure that the airlines must have some cleaning procedures that they follow after a flight before the next group of people get on. It's been a long time since I've flown, but I can never remember a dirty plane, sticky floor, or anything. They were always immaculate.

ACBaay, you raise a very good question. See that's why I think Jesse's *contact* reaction when the pb rice krispie square merely touched his MOUTH was different than the contact reaction he had this past December, whereby it the residue would have been transferred from his hand.

I have always thought of lips as being different than hands. The same as I would his eyes. Does that make sense?

When Jesse had the anaphylactic reaction to the pb rice krispie square, it merely touched his lips. However, I do think the lips are different than say had the bloody thing touched his hand. Having said that, it was still actual pb that touched his lips and not residue.

With his last reaction, it was definitely residue, that I believe he transferred from his hand to either his mouth or nose since he had a cold.

Now, the lip reaction was anaphylactic and that's the one where he almost died. He experienced every possible symptom of anaphylaxis except losing consciousness. However, again, complicating it for me is that it was actual pb, not residue.

The last reaction was also anaphylactic, but it's the one that I have found puzzling, simply because it did halt itself before even Benadryl was administered.

I had gone through my time since his last anaphylactic reaction expecting that he would react badly the next time, and yes, he certainly did if it was anaphylactic, but never in my life (until posting here and receiving great information again [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] ) did I ever think that Jesse could have an anaphylactic reaction that would actually halt itself. It was a very strange reaction, for me, and has left me puzzled and also kinda scared.

But, no, I do think the mouth or lips are different than something being transferred from the hand to then the lips or mouth or entering through the nose.

Having said all of that, airborne reactions would really only involve the breathing in of the offending smell or particles through your mouth or nose and anaphylaxis occurs.

I just feel like this allergy holds curve balls waiting to be thrown at us along the way and I'm thankful that we're able to discuss them here, because otherwise, the curve ball would simply have hit me in the head and knocked me out. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/biggrin.gif[/img]

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Wow, Amy (Going Nuts), those are some serious reactions that Kevin had! I am curious how high he tests on the RAST or skin prick test. It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation with high scores and airborne sensitivity. My son does score a Class 6 on the Rast and a 4+ on the SPT.

I keep thinking about Gail W.'s daughter at the allergist and the airborne test they gave her. Gail, please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he open a jar of peanut butter in the room and wait to see if something happened? It seems like that might not simulate a school situation where other kids are chewing the food and breathing on others. Do you know what I mean? An open jar of PB isn't really circulating through the air whereas when you are chewing and breathing and laughing, etc. there would be more peanut protein moving about. What do you think?

And after rereading this thread topic, ~sorry Cindy if I have veered [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] , I think there are a lot of reactions that are just too hard to pinpoint. I know that at least for us this is true. I analyze and analyze and throw up my hands sometimes. But I think in the past I may actually have confused an airborne reaction for a contact reaction not knowing then that he was becoming airborne sensitive which I now know he is.

Love My C., no apologies needed for what you thought was veering off topic. I think it's kinda sad that a lot of us are extremely apologetic on the board just in case we should be misunderstood by someone and have a thread go bad. I do think that is sad. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]
And you didn't really veer off topic. To me, veering off topic is talking about something totally not related to the topic (or so remotely related that it should be in a different thread). Do you know what I mean.

I think you've raised a very interesting question.

It
would be interesting to see if there is a correlation with high scores
and airborne sensitivity.

Now, would you like to raise the question in a separate thread or do I have to raise yet another question on this board? [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/wink.gif[/img]

Do high test scores = airborne reactions or have people with high test scores had airborne reactions?

I don't have a test score for Jesse since I have never had him officially tested for PA (which does seem strange to most people, I'm sure).

But it's an excellent question. I believe it does warrant discussion and the only reason (and I'm treading lightly here myself as well) that I would even suggest you raise it separately is so that it does get some attention. Just as I suggested to Spudberry above that her question *might* be looked at and answered if it wasn't solely in this thread.

That's really the only reason I suggest that questions get raised outside of one thread.
Or I do it myself, as I told SpudBerry. I'll be reading a thread and I see what is a GREAT question. This thread itself, was started from a comment that williamsmummy had posted in another thread. They come flying at me all of the time. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img] It might only be *my* opinion that they make great discussion questions, but I continue to raise them separate from the thread that they came out in, not because it's veering off topic in the thread really, but because it can be a separate discussion.

Best wishes! [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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My daughter, thankfully, has never had an air-borne or a contact reaction. I just want to say, though, that I think with this site we all have access to so much information from parents of pa kids as well as adult pa sufferers, that we probably know more about reactions than most doctors do. Also, it seems typical for doctors to believe what they know from the literature, more that what is reported by their actual patients. I feel for those of you whose physicians are doubting your reports. I guess I am "lucky" in that our allergist has a pa son, and his first reaction occured when his mom (our allergist) kissed him after she had eaten a pb&j sandwhich. I don't expect she'll ever doubt anything we say. (Of course one never knows.) Good thread, Cindy. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] Miriam

Regarding our "air borne" test developed by our allergist~ I think it's very hard to draw any conclusions. They called it an "open air exposure". They opened jars of unscented material~ one presumably peanut~ and monitored Mariah's vitals. Although it took many hours, the exposure was very limited (5 minutes, I believe). And yes, there was no circulation... just the open jar in the room. What it told me was that: on that day, with that exposure, Mariah did not react. That's it.

I think it was interesting.... and my allergist developed this concept with Dr. Bock who is big in the field (National Jewish in Denver). But like all the allergy testing (skin, blood) it's hard for me to really understand what the practical meaning is.

Based on this and other info, we made the decision that we were comfortable with Mariah having her lunch in the school cafeteria at a PF table. (It has worked out okay so far.)

Love My C.,

I have no idea what his numbers are - his allergist feels that the numbers are somewhat meaningless as they do not actually predict the severity of a reaction. It's also been several years since he was last tested. His allergist said he would retest him if he went several years without a reaction. I think it's been almost two years now, so when we go for his "tune-up" this spring I'll find out if it is time for testing. I hope not - you have [b]no[/b] idea what it is like to try and get blood out of him, LOL!

Amy

I wonder where scepticisim on airborne reactions comes from.

I'd reckon that the pathway into the body via the nasal passages and lungs is as direct as any via the mouth, and much more direct than by touch (I've never seen a druggie on TV rub dope or cocaine into their skin - they always inhale it!)

PN have a very distinctive and strong smell, which I was reminded of last weekend on a flight, when bags of PN were handed out (no I didn't eat them, and I really didn't like the smell).

Sarah, I've no doubt (and neither does Helen) that Helen reacted to airborne material.

Just a few weeks ago a little girl ran up to her at school and said 'don't come near me! I've got a peanut butter sandwich!' Of course in the process Helen got a whiff of the PB and still felt sick (in the tummy and her lips were tingling) when I got home from work that night. [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/frown.gif[/img]

As to why it seems to happen often on aircraft? Easy. The air in the cabin is a semi-closed system. New air is bled into the cabin from the engines, and stale air ejected, but the turnover means that half the air is recirculated...and of course you can't open a window to get any really fresh air! [url="http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cabinair/facts.html"]http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cabinair/facts.html[/url]

It's controlled environments like that that offer a huge threat to PA individuals. There is no control (over air, and on long flights its hard to control food and drink) and no option to leave. Hospitals are similar, and so are schools.

Regards,

Geoff (Helen's hubby)

*edited for typos*

[This message has been edited by helenmc (edited March 08, 2003).]

Can I just add that my son who tested a 9.43 on the CapRast has also reacted to smell.
I knew it was smell because we walked into a house(my son never even took his shoes off)past a bowl of peanut butter cups and he immediately started sneezing, eyes watering and itchy and wanted to go home.
Went outside and he was fine.
He never touched anything(he still had his mittens on).
He wears glasses so I know he never touched his eyes that were itching and watery.

I just wish everyone would be more like Amy's allergist in not putting too much emphasis on number's vs severity.

My son has never reacted to smell with anaphylaxis so I am willing to smell challenge him with his next trip to the allergist coming up on May.

[This message has been edited by smack (edited March 07, 2003).]

Hi Cindy - I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't worried about my feelings when I said that people could go on & ignore my question if they didn't feel it was in the right place.

I just didn't want to kill the topic at hand. Sometimes when some one throws a big veer into the conversation - it makes everyone choose to either follow the new path or stay on course - I just wanted to let everyone know that I wouldn't be "hurt" if they stayed on course & didn't veer with me [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]

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Sherlyn

Mom to 3 year old twins Ben & Mike - one PA & the other not.

Stay Informed And Peanut Free!

Oh Cindy, thanks for the encouragment to start a new thread [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]
I would have to come back later to do it though as I'm a bit tight on time right now. I don't mind at all if you or someone else wanted to post it. (I'm a follower, not a leader [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img] )

I think Geoff's drug user analagy is quite a good one-even if it is a bit scary [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img]

Thanks for the info, Gail!

Amy, if Kevin gets tested I'd sure be interested to know what his #'s are. And I hear you about the blood draw. My ds was quite brave at 2 yrs. old but at 4 yrs. it wasn't a pretty sight (or sound)!

Smack, I understand what you are saying about #'s & severity as some kids/people have tested with low #'s and still suffered anaphylaxis. But in my kiddo's case, at age 2 he was a Class 2 and made a peanut butter bird feeder [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/eek.gif[/img] w/ no reaction. (yes, I was ignorant of PA and only told he shouldn't eat any) He wasn't contact sensitive at that time nor inhalation sensitive. Now he is a Class 6 and very sensitive. So #'s seem to be indicative of sensitivity in his case. Just going by our own experience, though.

Oh it is such a mystery isn't it!

Do you suppose anyone who is airborne sensitive as a preschooler can get less sensitive? Maybe? Hopefully? I mean, where do we go from here?

CAMS MOM ~ Lana, thank you for the encouragement. I often feel like I am in this process alone, here. Her reactions mostly happen when I am with her. My husband hasn't witnessed as much as I have.

GOING NUTS You made me wonder if the reaction she had this wek was airborn. As we entered my dr. office you could smell chinese food strongly in the air. When she sat down in the waiting room she said she smelled peanuts and began rubbing her eyes. I assumed she had touched something on the chairs. I had her wipe her hands and face. She also had runny nose. We went to a playdate after for an hour. she played happily with her friend. When we got in the car to go home she complained that she couldn't breath through her nose. I was surprised that she was still reacting 2 1/2 hrs later. We gave her some benedryl and she cleared right up. I am now wondering if it was the strong sent of food comming from the nearby chinese restaraunt. Thanks for shedding some light on things. Melody

Can you imagine being sick and sitting in a doctor's office smelling chinese food? Or any food?

That is so unprofessional of any staff member to be eating where others can smell the food. I know they are busy and have to eat but in the office is the wrong place.

Peg

raised for "Gail W" to complement the thread about "FAANs peanut ban" policy in schools

raised to answer a question for RBF about how common airborne reactions are [img]http://uumor.pair.com/nutalle2/peanutallergy/smile.gif[/img]